Mat Staver of Liberty Counsel
OneNewsNow, a division of the American Family News Network, reports that Mat Staver, dean of Falwell’s Liberty University Law School and president of Liberty Counsel, a Religious Right legal group, is taking a stand against the Constitution.
That’s not the language they would choose of course, but when somebody says that separation of church and state is not a constitutional principle, no other interpretation is possible.
Staver frames his argument as being against Americans United for Separation of Church and State, an organization he says is “one of the most dangerous organizations in America.”
Americans United (AU), founded in 1947, is “dedicated to preserving the constitutional principle of church-state separation as the only way to ensure religious freedom for all Americans.”
Staver’s problem (other than ignorance of the Constitution that is) is that AU has filed suit claiming (correctly) that “A Tennessee county’s preference for Christianity in its courthouse displays violates the U.S. Constitution.”
As AU relates,
[T]he Johnson County Commission’s decision to display the Ten Commandments and Christian literature in the courthouse lobby while refusing to display a local man’s posters about the historic role of church-state separation in American law.
The documents in question are titled “On the Legal Heritage of the Separation of Church and State” and “The Ten Commandments Are Not the Foundation of American Law.”
Despite the 100% veracity of both titles, Staver, who in 2009 accused AU of wanting to “erase” Christianity “from the planet” says,
“This is something that they are intent on doing across the country,” he explains. “They’re out to literally destroy America; they’re out to erase our religious heritage and religious symbols from every area of life.”
Of course, Staver’s religious heritage is not at risk. Nobody, including AU is working to erase Christianity. Nor is anyone working to destroy America except theocrats like Staver. Staver is defending an America that has never existed, an America of myth and fundamentalist wet dreams and people like him will not rest until they have destroyed the real America of the past two centuries, the America of the Constitution, and turned it into ancient Israel.
As AU’s complaint states,
“The Johnson County Commission is promoting religion through its displays,” observes the complaint. “In addition, the Commission refuses to allow alternative points of view to be heard. This is a twofold violation of the First Amendment.”
What is being supported are lies and fantasy:
The display itself claims that the Ten Commandments are the historical foundation of American law. Accompanying it is a pamphlet written by local clergy that contends U.S. law springs from biblical morality and insists that the United States was founded on Christian principles.
Obviously, none of this is true; it is nonsense. The Ten Commandments are not the historical foundation of American law. English common law is. And the United States was founded on the principles of the very secular European Enlightenment. There is not a shred of historical evidence to the contrary.
Staver claims, “This individual wants to put up false information, essentially saying that separation of church and state is required or part of the Constitution, which we know it’s not.”
But it is: it’s called the First Amendment.
Then again, Staver claims his organization defends religious liberties. By this he can only mean he defends the right of Christianity to ride roughshod over the rights of every non-Christian in the country and to legislate his own.
Staver says he will defend Johnson County free of charge and he is hoping they will fight the lawsuit.
I’m uncertain what evidence they could possibly present to support their view, and any true friend of the Constitution can only hope Staver gets his way with regards to fighting the AU lawsuit, as it will mark a certain defeat of the anti-American forces of fundamentalist theocracy.
Bring it on, Johnson County.
I would like to see him present evidence that the Ten Commandments are the foundation of American law or that biblical principles are the foundation of America. But Staver is famous for making claims for which he can offer no evidence. Previously, he filed a frivolous lawsuit against AU claiming that they are a “Democratic Party front group” – a suit that offered not a shred of evidence.
But of course, you can’t present what doesn’t exist and the sun will burn itself out before such evidence surfaces. Not that this is a problem that has been seen as a roadblock to the fundamentalists and their assault on the Constitution. In fact, ignorance of the Constitution seems to be a job requirement on the Religious Right as well as in the Republican Party and Tea Party,as people like Sarah Palin and Michele Bachmann and their pronouncements have repeatedly proven.
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ignatzz
Jan. 24th, 2011 at 6:58 am
People like this used to be babbling on street corners. Why are they now being taken at all seriously?
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Hrafnkell Haraldsson
Jan. 24th, 2011 at 8:59 am
And they’re prominently employed and wealthy – and probably not lacking decent healthcare.
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Reynardine
Jan. 24th, 2011 at 7:20 am
In fact, even actual ancient Israel rarely resembled ancient Israel, as a reading of Isaac Asimov’s excellent historical analyses of the Old and new Testaments will show. But then, as now, every time the whackwing rightbirds got hold of a scripture or table of laws, they rewrote it to suit themselves. The Ten Commandments appear, even now, as other than we see them in different parts of the Old Testament, and the one Jesus cites as a commandment, “Love thy neighbor as thyself,” was an original Commandment that was edited out as inconvenient by hard-liners. Those, at least, have not changed over the millenia: they are still diligently rewriting laws to endorse their favorite brands of tyranny and unfairness.
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Hrafnkell Haraldsson
Jan. 24th, 2011 at 9:07 am
I also recommend, for a very readable account, Robin Lane Fox, The Unauthorized Version: Truth and Fiction in the Bible (NY: Vintage Books, 1991). And of course, archaeologist William G. Dever is an absolute must for anyone interested in historical Israel as opposed to the Israel of myth:
Did God Have a Wife? (2008)
What Did the Biblical Writers Know and When Did They Know It?: What Archaeology Can Tell Us About the Reality of Ancient Israel (2002)
Who Were the Early Israelites and Where Did They Come From? (2006).
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AKinPA
Jan. 24th, 2011 at 7:31 am
Staver is a law school dean (albeit Liberty University)? Aren’t law schools accredited? How can his school possibly accredited?
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Hrafnkell Haraldsson
Jan. 24th, 2011 at 9:01 am
You have to wonder, AKinPA. Of course look at the creationist schools wanting to give science degrees…how is that possible to consider in even their wildest fantasies? A science degree in non-science?
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Basheert
Jan. 24th, 2011 at 12:56 pm
I have an ex-friend who attends Liberty U / it is BELOW a 4th tier school. In essence, you can attend Liberty U if you have a pulse. (Not sure if you have to be breathing).
In it’s own little way, it is a brainwashing Christo-fascist Madrassa. They “blend” classes. For example, how to use Christian faith in psychology with the emphasis on brainwashing and little emphasis on “science”
Christofascists are deathly afraid of science – which makes a lot of sense because they are afraid of anything they can’t understand and twist into something that works for them. I love the entire “it’s Unconstitutional” meme that is out there right now. If “they” don’t like it, it’s Unconstitutional.
If it wasn’t so tragic, it would actually be fun to watch the loons turn themselves into pretzels trying to debunk science. And in fact they know they can’t. And that’s why their ONLY fallback is to declare everything they can’t DISPROVE “unconstitutional”.
I like to hope that “this too will pass”. Sort of like gas after a bean burrito.
On the other hand, people who “graduate” from Liberty U will have no jobs. They are so far out there by the time the cult is done, that no reasonable employer will even look at them. Their “degree” is a joke.
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Rain
Jan. 24th, 2011 at 8:39 am
As anyone who can read can see, the first four commandments have to do only with proper worship of the Judao-Christian deity. That is clearly specific to xianity and is obviously in conflict with Constitutional prohibitions regarding religious establishment. The first eight commandments call for death for any infraction. Only one of those ever carries a death penalty today in this country. Six of the eight Death Commandments are utterly ignored, at least insofar as they ever evoke anything other than a stern look. The 10 Commandments, which are the basis for Christian morality have nothing to do with our laws & even the ones we agree on (don’t kill/steal/screw around) are ideas that have permeated cultures long pre-dating Christianity & Judaism. Stop trying to take the credit for morality. It wasn’t a Christian idea.
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Hrafnkell Haraldsson
Jan. 24th, 2011 at 10:21 am
The claim to sole possession of morality is hilarious and demonstrably false, as should be obvious to anyone who has ever picked up a history book. What do these clowns think ancient people did to survive without laws and morality?
For instance, Hammurabi says “Anum and Enlil named me…Hammurabi…to cause justice to prevail in the land, to destroy the wicked and the evil, that the strong may not oppress the weak.”
And Celsus, the pagan critic of Christianity went so far as to accuse the Christians of a lack of originality in the area of morality – Origen, Contra Cels. 1.4 (PG 11.661).
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Diane
Jan. 24th, 2011 at 10:45 am
I, too, want to know how we as a country let these people take over the discourse on religious freedoms, rights and politics in this country.
Were we not paying attention?
Look at any History channel on WW2 and the rise of the Nazi’s and it is eerily similar to what is going on today. And I am not talking about Obama health care or Democrats.
These right wing republicans are destroying our history as a free people, they are twisting the meaning of the Constitution and are hell bent on creating a theocracy.
Do they really believe that a Theocracy will save this country? And what happens if it doesn’t? Will they push us and the rest of the world to the ‘end times’ they so believe in?
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Hrafnkell Haraldsson
Jan. 24th, 2011 at 11:11 am
It’s frightening. People need to understand that these people are enemies of democracy, enemies of science, enemies of the Constitution, and enemies of the United States. They are anti-American because they are anti- everything America is based upon.
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Maxine
Jan. 24th, 2011 at 12:53 pm
I’m still waiting for someone to explain why Judaic tribal law is cited by Christians, whose main beef with Jewish religion is that it refuses to accept that Christ nullified that covenant with god by dying.
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Basheert
Jan. 24th, 2011 at 1:05 pm
There is NO answer because this is one of their circular thinking lack of logic screwball ideas they use to define their position. The Xtofascists don’t have answers. They are the lemmings of religion. They are afraid of science, math and (obviously) rational thinking. Since they live on fear, they have to make anything they don’t understand “illegal” or “unconstitutional”.
Science will continue – as will math – and education. It probably won’t be doing as well in the US because we will all be non-voting women, barefoot and pregnant – our children will be making shoes by hand from the age of 7 – people of color will be 3/5 of a person again, and the Old White Gop Man will once again own his slaves. THIS is what they have wanted since Lincoln freed the slaves.
Those who can get out, will. Our brightest minds, scientists, mathematicians, and scholars will go to countries that value education. Progress will continue but we will be left standing around with nothing but GOP weirdness.
And those who leave will take all the money that is on the sidelines because we/they want MORE for their kids than religious persecution. This is NOT a Christian nation and it is NOT a white nation. When people realize that the only acceptable color, race and religion is going to be determined by the Old White Guys, we will fold as a nation.
The world will roll merrily along, making exciting scientific and mathematical discoveries / traveling perhaps into space again. And we will be NOTHING – caught in the Christian Inquisitions of the 2000′s.
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Eykis
Jan. 24th, 2011 at 3:46 pm
Basheert,
Excellent post. My thoughts exactly. Thank you.
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Ignia
Jan. 24th, 2011 at 2:00 pm
The words, “Separation of Church and State” are not actually found in the Constitution. On this, Dude is correct. HOWEVER!
The will of the founding fathers was clearly stated in the following letter to the Danbury Baptist Association: ( http://www.usconstitution.net/jeffwall.html )
“Mr. President
To messers Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.
Gentlemen
The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should “make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,” thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. [Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from prescribing even those occasional performances of devotion, practiced indeed by the Executive of another nation as the legal head of its church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect.] Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association assurances of my high respect & esteem.
(signed) Thomas Jefferson
Jan.1.1802.”
For further interesting reading regarding this subject, and the Evangelical viewpoint: http://ofandfrom.com/2010/10/29/of-not-from-religion-the-evangelical-philosophy-of-the-separation-of-church-and-state-part-1/
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k l m
Jan. 24th, 2011 at 3:31 pm
Everyone reading this article or posting here really ought to read The Myth of American Religious Freedom by Sehat. ( http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sehat/the-myth-of-american-reli_b_808574.html ) It will turn your head upside down and shake it a bit. It also provides excellent reasoning to help understand this extraordinarily complicated and convoluted issue. Its not a simple or clear cut as ‘Separation of Church and State’. Having recently read this book, my entire perception of politics and US history is changed.
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Shiva (Moderator)
Jan. 24th, 2011 at 5:14 pm
I say let them win. Then insist that the muslims have the same power
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Raven
Jan. 24th, 2011 at 6:01 pm
The thing is, if the founding fathers had intended this to be a Christian nation and all that, they could and would have put some mention of God in the Constitution, not to mention some correlation between the Ten Commandments and the law of the land. Almost none of the Ten Commandments are even relevant to a secular society, and the ones that are are so basic and universal (“murder is wrong”) that we hardly need a holy book to point them out to us.
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jeff phillips
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 9:53 am
your all athiests
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Shiva (Moderator)
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 10:06 am
And?
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