Rush Limbaugh met the brick wall of reality today as a liberal caller to his radio show asked him why Ronald Reagan, who negotiated with terrorist, raised taxes, granted amnesty to illegal aliens, and cut and ran from Lebanon, is a hero to conservatives. Limbaugh could not answer the question, but he did claim that Reagan never raised taxes and that he was the former president was misunderstood.
Here is the audio from Media Matters:
A liberal caller asked Limbaugh why Ronald Reagan is a hero to conservatives when he raised taxes, cut and ran from Lebanon, granted amnesty to illegal immigrants, and negotiated with terrorists. Limbaugh answered by claiming that the caller didn’t understand Reagan, “Why is a Reagan a hero to conservatives. Given what you said, and I am not trying to avoid the question, I don’t think you’d understand it.”
The caller repeated his question again, and told Limbaugh that he didn’t think he understood why conservatives love Reagan. Rush replied it, “No, I do, most assuredly I do. I don’t think you understand it. Where did you get this silly notion that Reagan raised taxes on Social Security? What websites do you read? Where did you pick that up?” The caller told Rush to look up the Greenspan Commission. It’s a matter of history and that it is general knowledge.
Limbaugh blamed Media Matters, and said that the caller’s understanding of Reagan is flawed, “Well, because you understand Reagan in a way that is flawed. Your call is actually kind of interesting because you represent the impossibility of bridging the gap. Somebody like you just has to be defeated.”
When confronted with the reality of Ronald Reagan’s legacy, Rush Limbaugh went into duck and dodge mode, with a dash of lying. The truth is that Ronald Reagan did raise taxes, especially the payroll tax in 1983. Reagan first raised taxes by $17 billion in 1982. His 1983 increase of the payroll tax virtually wiped out his 1981 tax cut, and for good measure Reagan raised taxes in 1984 in an attempt to combat the exploding budget deficit courtesy of Reaganomics, and concerns about inflation. The Tax Reform Act of 1986 cut tax breaks and shelters, which would qualify it in today’s Republican terms as a tax increase.
According to CNN, tax receipts as a percentage of GDP were 18.2% under Reagan, which was right in line with the numbers under Jimmy Carter and the 40 year average of 18.1%. Limbaugh evaded all the other correct points that the caller made about Reagan’s legacy, and in typical conservative fashion, he ignored the historical record, and tried to blame the liberal media for facts. Since conservatives can’t handle the truth about Ronald Reagan, they have created their own mythology. Ronald Reagan is their laissez faire Jesus. The facts are ignored as a personification of an ideology is worshiped.
The liberal caller destroyed the myth of St. Ronnie of Tax Cut with one simple question that Rush Limbaugh could not answer. The truth is that conservatives don’t worship Ronald Reagan. They worship what they believe Ronald Reagan to be. The reason why the caller couldn’t understand it is because he was using facts, and the facts have no place in conservative’s discussion of Ronald Reagan.
Trying to understand the conservative worship with facts is like trying to explain the facts about Jesus to an extreme Christian. In both cases for the believer their views are a matter of faith, not a statement of fact. When confronted with shattering reality of Ronald Reagan, Rush Limbaugh did what believers do. He blamed the questioner, attacked the information, and retreated to his faith. Conservatives can’t handle the truth about Ronald Reagan, and one liberal managed to shatter Rush Limbaugh’s delusions of Reaganness simply by trying to bring him back to reality, but as we all know, reality is no friend to Rush Limbaugh and the conservative movement.
PoliticusUSA
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geo
Feb. 4th, 2011 at 4:18 pm
Reality? Conservatives?
Oil and water.
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Anne in Peoria
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 11:25 am
Typical liberal response to this call. I was actually listening to Rush yesterday when this guy called. Rush totally called him on it: the guy was quoting from a Media Matters (uber liberal) article from the day before. The liberal callers tone was typical of these robo-callers who call into conservative talk shows; elitist and snobbish. Just like with Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachmann, Michelle Malkin, or any other female conservative, the libs always want to bash those Conservatives who made a difference and/or are on top of their game! My question is, why are the libs so angry? You won the presidency, you had the senate and house for 2 years and you’re still so bitter. What gives? Is it that we are now seeing the 2nd term of Jimmy Carter play out with the Obama administration? Is it because Obama isn’t doing all that he promised he would do for the socialist/liberal faction of the party? Get over Reagan. Obama will NEVER measure up to all that he accomplished!
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Shiva (Moderator)
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 12:01 pm
Typical. Run from the fact that Rush was owned because he couldn’t back up why Reagan was god
Rush could not answer the question and was owned. No matter where the guy got his info from.
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Brian
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 1:11 pm
Interesting how this writer didn’t actually engage the FACTS, raised by this caller. Attacking “elitists” may be fun, but the facts stand nevertheless. Reagan did raise, taxes, many times in fact. he did negotiate with terrorists (and in fact paid ransom for hostages), he cut and ran from Lebanon. All of those decisions may indeed have made sense, but they are at odds with what conservatives claim to know about Reagan. Of course, for conservative tea bagger bolsheviks, facts don’t matter; words mean what they say they mean.
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Stephen
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 4:59 pm
Right on man. His “elitist” jab was so transparent it was pathetic. I’m all for free speech, but I wish private web sites would just eliminate posts like that. It’s just clutter. If you want to discuss politics, bring it on. If you want to call names and use absurd labels, go away.
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S.L.Johnson
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 2:50 am
Really? You wish that? Would you listen to yourself?
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Dan Secrist
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 11:40 am
The key concept here is “private”.
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Jason
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 1:58 pm
See, here’s the deal though, Anne – either the caller’s facts were correct or they weren’t. It’s a binary thing. If the facts are correct, then Rush got owned. If the facts were not correct, then the caller is a moron. The facts in question are pretty easily verified, I’d imagine, and a judgment could be made from there.
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George Guadiane
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 2:02 pm
Anne,
Let me start by answering (for myself alone) your only relevant question:
“My question is, why are the libs so angry?”
Using Rush’s response as a demonstration, I’m angry because “Conservatives” have a dream, more than a plan. (most of) You have a propensity to say things that you can neither prove nor defend, but you say it with such authority that uninformed, illinformed, less than educated individuals accept and repeat without really considering how it impacts them and their lives and whether or not it is even true. “Its on TV/the radio, it must be true.”
In this case, for instance, neither you nor Rush was willing (or ABLE) to refute the facts as presented. And the caller used the same kind of words with the same kind of inflection that “Right” wing talking heads (like Rush) use to insult, intimidate and dismiss “Liberal/Progressive/”Communist”/Socialist” callers.
The caller gave a factual representation of actions taken by President Reagan. He gave it without anger.
My question would be this:
When the truth is pointed out to you and you don’t have a logical, plausible argument, why aren’t YOU mad at being tricked? Why aren’t YOU mad when you see that you have been duped by the Big Money Big Business “water carriers?” Why do you PERSIST in holding on to lies and misrepresentations? Why don’t you EVER take the time to examine YOUR position, YOUR beliefs?
If you can ask a question that causes me to consider my position, I’ll do that, then answer, like now, but the likelihood, unlike you and rush is that I’ll be able to answer the question and ask you one that will, almost certainly stump you.
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S.L.Johnson
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 2:53 am
It really goes both ways, if you sit down and think about it. Do you think it’s just the conservatives who do this? Don’t delude yourself.
Own up to Human nature.
Until man realizes that we are all in this thing together and stops saying, “oh, that side is wrong and my side is right” the childish bickering (no matter how articulated) will continue. I’m sorry, but it had to be said.
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Jay
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 4:41 am
But there is a right side and a wrong side. Many conservative and liberal beliefs are mutually exclusive. Conservatism is based in ignorance, a lack of imagination, narrow interests, a fear of knowledge and most importantly a childish resentment of authority. To the Conservative, arguments are about winning and losing; not about trying to figure out the closest approximation of the truth.
I study many topics and I have discovered something that is unbelievable: conservatives are wrong about everything. This conclusion is not at all satisfying to me, it seems too simple. Nonetheless, no matter how I try to refute this conclusion, I cannot. Conservatives are wrong about the very nature of reality. Every scientific and historical fact contradicts every view they hold.
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Gary Cameron
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 6:09 pm
Dude, SO RIGHT ON !! I felt inclined to respond to Anne but I do think you’ve done a good enough job to cover for us both.
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Thomas
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 5:42 pm
My recollection was that the democrat-controlled congress kept sending him tax bills to sign. The economy was going into the drink because of high inflation induced on the US by the Federal Reserve private banking cartel. In frustration, he announced to the democrats that if they wanted to destroy the country, then go ahead and send the tax increases and he would sign. But back to Rush, I have never understood his worship of Reagan. The country went into an 11 year economic ditch beginning in the spring of 1980 (Carter). The president really has no power to benefit the economy. It’s all controlled by the Federal Reserve which uses its power to elect presidents that makes them, not you, rich.
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Shiva (Moderator)
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 6:03 pm
So Reagan just told the Dems if you want to destroy the country go ahead? Hello? So you admit he was a horrible president with no power?
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Peter
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 10:43 pm
So, when someone says something about a conservative president, you’re going to give the lame excuse that the President has no power to benefit the economy, but if it’s someone like Obama, you blame him for destroying the economy. Is that your final answer?
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S.L.Johnson
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 3:00 am
Good answer. It’s all a game. The most intelligent of us know this.
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John Hall
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 6:42 pm
I understand, Anne. The truth hurts. Reagan was not a god.
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S.L.Johnson
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 3:01 am
*cough* neither is Obama. *cough*
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Chad
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 10:50 pm
You still havent answered the question either it doesnt matter where he got the info from the truth is the truth. He proved Limbo wrong and all GOP/Tea party do is change the argument to where he got the info from. Stick to subject and facts. Limbo because he danced around question. like your going to do. Left is not mad were annoyed with false info from right. Facts dont matter to the right wing media. If someone tells a lie about you you get annoyed.
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S.L.Johnson
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 3:02 am
Prove they are facts.
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David
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 6:02 pm
First, what source would you consider as “factual” enough to prove the point? The Greenspan Commission is fairly believable wouldn’t you say? Or, is it that like many Limbaugh believers, you think the stated source has something to do with the government and is therefore suspect and the only truth comes from him? How is it even possible for someone like a talk show host to have access to the data that would show him conclusively that the taxes went up or down? Do you think he would have better access to these data than the Commission? Other than question the source of the caller’s information, what source of information did Limbaugh cite as the basis for his objections? Clearly he offered no such source nor did he (and this to me is even more telling) say the claim wasn’ t true. He did not even question the source when the caller gave it, he questioned whether the caller had heard it cited by another website the day before. Now what difference does it make what website revealed the source? Does it make a difference to the content of a given book if it is purchased from different stores? Does the Wall Street Journal read differently if it is purchased from a Right Wing owned store instead of a Left Wing owned store? Really? No. He didn’t even try to impugn the website that offered up the source, he just tried to make it sound as if because the fact and its source was revealed on a liberal site, then it can’t be true. That is akin to saying that because a liberal site states as fact that the sun is at the center of our solar system (with the source being innumerable scientists for the last 500 years or so), Limbaugh can with authority refute that as “flawed thinking” and a patently false assertion. Again, simply because of its a liberal site.
So we are back to the original question; what sources (real ones, please) would you consider acceptable to prove the point?
The numbers I saw were that taxes were 18.2% of GDP in 1986 which is very in line with the 18.1 % it has been since. Additionally, he didn’t raise taxes once, it was 6 individual times and if you count raising taxes like “Conservatives” do today, there was one more time because he allowed a tax cut to expire.
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dagreat1
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 12:20 am
Anne
do yourself a favor and dont make yourself sound any more a bigger idiot than Limpballs did…the fact remains that he couldnt answer the question…the call is proof of that and when you righties cant answer why you are so feeble minded to believe everything thrown at you by serial liars like Beck hannity and Lamebaugh…you resort to the typical liberal socialist nonsense..when its you neo cons that have been runining this country for the past 40 yrs…..deal with that before you call us angry
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S.L.Johnson
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 3:02 am
You throw around the word “fact” so carelessly. It’s cute.
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Anonymous
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 12:40 am
Anne, What color is the sky where you come from? I voted For Regan In the 1984 election and suffered from Buyers remorse soon after. The man was a tax raiser, Social security (The Greenspan commission report was what he quoted it has all the social security tax increase information in it.) Regan made unemployment taxable. He pulled the US from Lebanon after 240 or so Marines were blown up in their barracks, by a truckload of explosives, and a mad man. (A wise decision at the time.) He granted amnesty to illegal immigrants, and negotiated with terrorists. As a Lib I don’t hate him for it, it’s just the truth Plain and simple . get over it.
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S.L.Johnson
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 3:05 am
Not all Teabaggers like Reagan, although a good majority of them do. Let’s not tack a negative stereotype onto an entire group of people and dismiss them merely because many of them are sheep. There are legitimate thinkers in the Tea Party movement.
Liberals need more people who have a healthy skepticism about their leaders…
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Roscoe Lewis
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 2:23 am
You fail to address the argument. FAIL.
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S.L.Johnson
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 3:06 am
You fail to back up your statement. FAIL.
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Dave F
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 11:31 am
As Jack Nicholson said in “A Few Good Men” – “YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH”Anne of Periora – protest all you want but you can’t change the facts to your wacko beliefs. Ronald was a decent person but not GOD. Rush is just a blowhard for people with your warped, contrived thruths. Wake up and stop saying every one who is against your facts is a Liberal or the Media.
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bridget
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 5:12 pm
Typical response from a brain-dead Tea Bagger!! Get a clue sweety. Learn some facts. Stupid is as stupid does!!!
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VolAlongTheWatchTower
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 10:47 pm
“Trying to understand the conservative worship with facts is like trying to explain the facts about Jesus to an extreme Christian. In both cases for the believer their views are a matter of faith, not a statement of fact.”
As the son of a retired Methodist Minister (who is also the Chairman of the Democratic Party of ____ County, Tennessee) what facts exactly? Lighten up, Francis, you don’t own “Enlightenment” anymore than the GOP thinks they own God even they began making payments in 1983 or 4 or so. That said, I assume that remark was rightly aimed at “Evangelical’ gas-bags, so in that regard, by all means, fire away. The other 99.999999999% of the article is gospel. :)
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Sol Parker
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 11:16 pm
Pretty sure Methodists aren’t looped in with “extreme Christians.” That’s why they’re typically called “mainstream evangelicals.” Many of them are liberals like you. “Extreme Christians” is poor wording admittedly, “fundamentalist” would have fit far better.
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Dan Secrist
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 11:41 am
All “evangelicals” seem pretty extreme to me.
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AtlasAyn
Feb. 12th, 2011 at 11:21 am
Reason? Liberals?
Oil and water.
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Ray Medeiros
Feb. 4th, 2011 at 4:26 pm
Jason.
I couldn’t help but laugh the entire time. Incredible!!!
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Sarah Jones
Feb. 4th, 2011 at 4:36 pm
This was great — a riot, actually. My favorite moment was when the caller is asked where he got this info and Rush tries to smear him with “media matters” and the caller says, yes, he goes to MM but that isn’t where he got this info, after all – it’s GENERAL KNOWLEDGE because he is a liberal, so he knows facts.
Someone please give this caller a spot on the radio!
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S.L.Johnson
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 3:08 am
So am I to ascertain by your statement that only liberals know facts? Hmm… you have a long way to go, young one.
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Hrafnkell Haraldsson
Feb. 4th, 2011 at 4:47 pm
Oh Rush, you have to screen your calls more carefully, lest facts intrude.
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licnyc
Feb. 4th, 2011 at 5:06 pm
HA thats amazing- “you are not buying into conservative delusional fantasy world. ” Comon man, you are spending all your time looking at history books- Ronald Reagan cut taxes, cured all diseases, won the war against eastasia and he could fly.
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Jonny V
Feb. 4th, 2011 at 5:17 pm
I highly recommend reading the book “Tear Down This Myth” about Reagan. Just about everything that the average person believes about Reagan is untrue.
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Gale
Feb. 4th, 2011 at 9:30 pm
I recommend “The Man Who Sold The World: Ronald Reagan and The Betrayal of Main Street America.”
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Paul P
Feb. 4th, 2011 at 9:33 pm
Thanks for the suggestion; I’ll definitely pick up a copy.
heigh-ho, heigh-ho, it’s off to Amazon I go…
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S.L.Johnson
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 3:09 am
It’s fun to read words and automatically assume they were not fabricated “facts” to help a certain agenda.
The truth is there is no truth. Nothing can be trusted. Get used to it.
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Dan Secrist
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 11:37 am
Trusting nothing is as stupid as trusting everything.
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Ramseyman
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 6:52 am
I seem to recall an essay published by Jerry Farber in the 1970′s, reflecting on Reagan’s term as governor, asking whether Reagan could really have been a secret liberal. The most stirring example of the idea was Reagan’s well-known comment, “Seen one redwood you’ve seen them all.” That one remark single-handedly launched the environmental movement in this country. Was Reagan a secret liberal? Well, if you take out all the obstructionism and so forth…
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Shiva (Moderator)
Feb. 4th, 2011 at 5:21 pm
OMG the golden microphone lay crushed on the floor. Rush was back pedaling so hard he couldn’t turn his trunk around fast enough to see where he had been.
I have never seen his at such a loss for words, and you knew he wouldn’t come up with anything truthful. Asking him where he got info that Rush already knew was true. That was rich.
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S.L.Johnson
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 3:11 am
He was probably trying to fathom why someone would say such things about his idol. Oh, the Lols abound.
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Dan Secrist
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 11:46 am
So, are you saying you trust Limbaugh’s fundamental assertions of sincerity?
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Gerald Bosacker
Feb. 4th, 2011 at 6:12 pm
The truth-bearing caller was a true misfit among Limbaugh’s disambiguities. He did forget to tell Rush that RR never walked on water. It was great to hear the untruth spinner unwound.
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C Egle
Feb. 4th, 2011 at 6:24 pm
Yeah, a caller did expose Rush’s ignorance of tax law history, but here is the full truth. Reagan raised the excise tax on fuel, but consider that before he was elected oil was $60 a barrel. Through negotiations with the Saudies and the elimination if the oil windfall profit tax and deregulation, the cost per barrel dropped below $20 and stayed below $30 until GW’s administration. The excise tax was insignificant when compared to the amount Americans saved on fuel costs. I’d rather pay $1 a gallon for gas with a high excise tax than $2 with no excise tax. The excise tax was used to offset unexpected drops in tax revenue due to porous tax loopholes and abusive tax shelters in the income tax law. Blame Reagan for the bad law, but credit him for the 1986 tax reform which increased tax revenue, but not income taxes per se. The act closed many abuses for which tax “give aways” were not intended, broaden the tax base and reduced perceived tax favoritism. Under Reagan the top marginal rates for individuals dropped from 75% to 28%. As for his increase in the social security tax, blame the administrations before him who gave him an insolvent unfunded program that is politically impossible to dismantle. He had to do something to save it. The Liberal mantra that Reagan raised taxes is myopic and ignorant.
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majii
Feb. 4th, 2011 at 6:46 pm
The majority of American historians have already stated and proven that Reagan did increase taxes. He had to because of the rapidly increasing deficit. This isn’t an attempt to smear the memory of Reagan or to deny the contributions he made to America. It’s known as setting the record straight and ensuring that the facts are not distorted by those who seek to re-write history. I’m glad that he did what he had to do at the time, but I do not endorse making him a saint of any kind.
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Boscoe
Feb. 4th, 2011 at 7:47 pm
But you’re missing the point that if Obama had done those things, Rush would be destroying him for it. Saying Ronnie cut taxes over here and raised them over there is simply fact. But someone like Rush ONLY sees the tax CUTS and everything else is a “liberal falsification”.
Personally, I think conservatives like Rush are simply sociopaths. You can’t engage in debate with a sociopath…
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S.L.Johnson
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 3:17 am
I think Dr Savage would definitely have destroyed Reagan, had he had his talk show back then. Then again, that pesky little thing known as the “Fairness Doctrine” was still in place, and he couldn’t have had a show even if he wanted to…
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enemy2k
Feb. 4th, 2011 at 8:46 pm
But I thought we weren’t allowed to blame former administrations? That is what the Bushboosters constantly say (even though Bush blamed Clinton and Reagan blamed Carter).
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Johnny Utah
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 12:16 am
I like how C Egle makes good points on the excise taxes, but broadly (and simple-mindedly) blames “the administrations before him who gave him an insolvent unfunded program that is politically impossible to dismantle” without really giving any reason why. Classic conservative tactic of “blame in the place of credible fact”. Additionally, instead of debating and leaving it open for readers to judge themselves, C Egle refers to the libral mantra as myopic and ignorant. Another accusatory and ignorant tactic. Talk about the pot and the kettle.
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S.L.Johnson
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 3:19 am
Aren’t we all hypocrites?
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Dan Secrist
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 11:52 am
No.
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cali
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 3:26 pm
I hate to agree with this guy on anything, but as E.M. Forster noted “Only hypocrites cannot forgive hypocrisy.”
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Anonymous Coward
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 7:37 am
While you have facts on your side, all the actions you mentioned, *especially* if proposed by Democrats in general or President Obama in particular, would be called tax “INCREASES”.
So Rush has to deal with the reality of the time given the perception HE WORKED TO FORM.
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Oldsun
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 12:11 pm
Ahhh NO the price of a barrel of oil in the 70s was 30 to 38 dollars, the oil shortage was caused by an embargo which did not raise the price of oil because you could not get oil. The olny time oil hit above the 60 dollar market was at the end of the Iran/Iraq war and that was during Reagan’s first term in office. Taxes he rasied taxs on the poor and middle class “The top tax rate was lowered from 50% to 28% while the bottom rate was raised from 11% to 15%. Many lower level tax brackets were consolidated, and the upper income level of the bottom rate (married filing jointly) was increased from $5,720/year to $29,750/year. This package ultimately consolidated tax brackets from fifteen levels of income to four levels of income. This would be the only time in the history of the U.S. income tax (which dates back to the passage of the Revenue Act of 1862) that the top rate was reduced and the bottom rate increased concomitantly. In addition, capital gains faced the same tax rate as ordinary income”(Wiki). Your comment is full of lies C Egle the truth is something you simply refuse to see.
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S.L.Johnson
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 3:24 am
Numbers make anyone look smart.
Out of 7,000,000,000 people surveyed, 76,543,800 people agree. 6,923,457,200 people either don’t know or don’t care.
See?
Don’t take everything you read so seriously. Leave a little room for doubt. :)
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Dan Secrist
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 11:57 am
Or stupid.
Though I do agree that doubt can be a very good thing.
Partisans often lack an ability to entertain doubts.
Demagogues ply their trades most profitably among such people.
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S.L.Johnson
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 3:14 am
Excellent job. I bet they won’t even realize that they have been hit with a double dose of their own medicine. The great thing about internet, as opposed to radio, is you can sound smart, because the stuttering and silence cannot be heard in a post…
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gg
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 3:31 am
Social Security was not insolvent or unfunded.
The SSI rate was raised to delay the time when the federal government wouldn’t have to start repaying principal on the loans that are owed to the Social Security Trust Fund. Almost a quarter of the national debt is owed to Social Security.
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AFM
Feb. 4th, 2011 at 6:35 pm
Right Rush, way let little ole facts get in the way. He busted you.
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majii
Feb. 4th, 2011 at 6:39 pm
Busted!!! This is wonderful! Limbaugh got beat at his own game. He was so sure that the caller got the information from MM, but when the caller mentioned the Greenspan Report, he had to resort to his usual tactic of attacking the bearer of truth to discredit the caller. This shows that Limbaugh makes things up as he goes along.
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S.L.Johnson
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 3:25 am
Well, Rush does admit to being wrong, 3% of the time…
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Crashunderride
Feb. 4th, 2011 at 6:56 pm
“Someone like you just has to be defeated?”
Someone like who? Someone who looks at fact or someone that actually uses them to make an educated decision? Or is it just people who question the things you say that need to be “defeated”?
Oh, by the way, way to use vaguely violent rhetoric less than a month after the Right came under fire for it.
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S.L.Johnson
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 3:26 am
Excellent point! Rush is a bad, bad man. :(
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Harry Merkin
Feb. 4th, 2011 at 7:14 pm
RR cut INCOME taxes (Only for the wealthy?) but RAISED Payroll taxes which are paid mostly by the middle class. His fans say “his tax cuts INCREASED total govt revenues” but my question is “Did the increased revenues come from SS tax increases?”
When I hear political spin I suspect they are blowing Smoke.
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Boscoe
Feb. 4th, 2011 at 7:55 pm
I haven’t validated this information, so someone please correct me, but what I’ve heard is that under Reagan, the top 1%’s income increased by 80% while the median income increased only %3.
Seems the trickle down didn’t trickle down very far…
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Shiva (Moderator)
Feb. 4th, 2011 at 8:34 pm
You may wish to look here at the tax rates for the upper bracket starting from 1980 – 1989 and see why they got vastly richer
http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/history-of-federal-individual-1.html
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AKRNC
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 12:26 am
Rachel Maddow did a great program on this last month and my youngest son was absolutely astonished when he looked at the discrepancy in income during the Reagan years, the rich definitely became far wealthier while the middle class was virtually stagnant. This is why the wealthy conservatives sing RR’s praises to this day. Trickle down economics never made it past the top percentage of income earners in this country!
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S.L.Johnson
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 3:28 am
Those greedy bastards… Them and their jobs, and their money, and their ideas… We don’t need them!
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Dan Secrist
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 12:02 pm
What jobs?
Which ideas?
You mean, like derivatives?
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Carolyn
Feb. 4th, 2011 at 7:53 pm
Who’s befuddled here?… Spewing inaccurate and misinformed rhetoric is harmful and sinister!
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Shiva (Moderator)
Feb. 4th, 2011 at 8:19 pm
You have described Rush to a T
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Anonymous Coward
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 7:39 am
Doncha know it! *Who* exactly is “Spewing inaccurate and misinformed rhetoric” in your view, here?
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E in Md
Feb. 4th, 2011 at 8:04 pm
He had to do something to save it. The Liberal mantra that Reagan raised taxes is myopic and ignorant
@C Egle – it’s not a matter of liberal misperception it’s a matter of fact. I was alive during the Reagan years. What you’re saying here is that I was ok for him to raise taxes becausE ‘he had to’. Whether or not he had to is irrelevant. He fact is that he DID. Which is what people like you and Limbaugh are trying to say.
He raised taxes twice, spent money like a drunken sailor and negotiated with terrorists. But you’re basically saying IOKIYR. I doubt you would be saying the same if it was Clinton or Obama
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Shiva (Moderator)
Feb. 4th, 2011 at 8:40 pm
I believe Reagan raised taxes 7 times in different areas
He dropped the tax rate on the upper bracket from 70% in 1980 to 28% when he left office.
A corporate tool? Yes, I think so. A golden conservative god? Not hardly. And Rush knows it
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Swampfox
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 3:00 pm
There is a point that is commonly overlooked about Reagan’s tax cuts. It is correct that the top bracket paid 28%, but the next lower bracket paid 33%. So even though the richest taxpayers were taxed at the well publicized 28%, the less rich suckers in the next bracket down paid a non-discussed higher rate.
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rm1948
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 3:43 pm
Lets be fair and accurate here. The rich paid 33% for their income in that lower bracket and then paid 28% for their income in the higher bracket. This is the same mistake folks kept making with the recent tax law changes. Everyone who made at least $250,000 got a tax break in that rate change. Those making over $250,000 got that tax break on their first $250,000. Then they got a break on the income over $250,000, also.
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John M
Feb. 4th, 2011 at 8:07 pm
Fantastic shutdown of the EIB Great Bloviator! It’s general knowledge – hell yes, I’m 57 and remember it, much less Richard Nixon enacting wage and price controls. Another paragon of laissez faire fantasy!
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S.L.Johnson
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 3:31 am
You gotta love politicians. :)
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ifolkinrock
Feb. 4th, 2011 at 8:34 pm
Silly caller. Everyone knows that Ronald Reagan stood thirty feet tall and could shoot fire out of his eight foot c0ck. He liquidated the poors and illegals in mass executions that were broadcast on the major networks and cut the tax rate to 0% while balancing the budget eight years in a row. Every family in America saw their incomes double and the Kremlin physically collapsed when he shot laser beams out of his eyes and melted it. At least that’s what I heard on Hannity.
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S.L.Johnson
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 3:32 am
Tall tales are fun. Isn’t exaggerating to make a point exhilarating? :)
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Jon
Feb. 4th, 2011 at 9:27 pm
And let’s also remember that Reagan dreamed of a world WITHOUT nuclear weapons. Something President Obama is trying to complete but which Republicans vehemently opposed and lost when they decided to stall on ratifying the new START treaty just to score political points putting this country’s security in jeopardy.
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seanman
Feb. 4th, 2011 at 10:20 pm
@ Jon…quite so! There are many valid reasons to despise Reagan; I personally (and quite falsely) claimed that if he was elected to a second term, I would move to Amsterdam!
However, it’s also true that he was critical in the possibility of The Executive really considering a significant, perhaps total, end to these ghastly machines. So he has that going for him
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Dan Secrist
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 12:08 pm
I dream of world without fictional persons.
We’ll see who gets there first.
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Dave Justice
Feb. 4th, 2011 at 9:29 pm
Good old RUSH, run from the facts by lying!!!
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Ray Hill
Feb. 4th, 2011 at 11:16 pm
How did the caller get through Rush’s elaborate call screeners and 20 second delay? Rush does his own drop call button and webcam control. Nice catch.
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sher747
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 1:24 am
Rush does not screen people to avoid liberal elites to be kept out. Your good friend Arianna Huffington does that. You liberals think all are like you – keeping the conflicting opinions out of the blog looks like you won. I think Rush did a good thing by allowing liberals to talk in his show. I have never seen the militant liberals allow conservative voices on thier programmes without ridiculing and condemning much like what you folks here state of him.
Reagan did negotiations and in the process raised taxes as part of negotiations. Democrats did not go with their promise to reduce spending which till date in haunting us. Overall tax rate did come down, but in individual instances it may not. What needs to be seen is how the 78% tax rate came down to under 30%.
Why are you liberals so offended when someone talks of RR highly ? Whenever liberals give facts they give it out of context to make it look good in their favor. They will also provide facts to show that the “free” heathcare for 30 million people will not cost American tax payers any more than tax levy on so called rich earning more than 150K (not 250K as told earlier). And Social Security is sutainable is another twisted liberal fact with no basis. Look who is talking about facts…
Oh another fact of liberals – every dollar spent on unemployment allowance yields 1.6 back per Pelosi and 1.7 per Harry Reid. And you guys are talking about facts ? Absolute ridiculous political spin comes out of left, not the right media. So you guys – have your mouthfull of pot and tickle yourself to laugther at Rush. Who cares aboout liberals anymore?
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Anonymous Coward
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 7:45 am
Sher, that’s revisionism, not to mention moving the goalposts.
Look at ANY of Reagan’s actions you mentioned above. NOW bring them into the present day and apply President Obama’s name to them. Measure your increase in blood pressure just reading them.
As I wrote above, YOUR side has shaped the current perception of actions, but you don’t get to go back and rewrite history so those perceptions don’t damage your hero(es).
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Dan Secrist
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 12:15 pm
There is neurological evidence that partisans are literally unable to process information which conflicts their world view the way everyone else does. They really can’t accept new information, unless it can be interpreted so it supports prior beliefs. They also have a real hard time with doubts, guilt, or accurate self-appraisal.
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Jon
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 10:03 am
@Sher –
It’s not the liberal agenda to tear down Reagan but to prevent conservatives from re-imagining and revising a legacy to attack Democrats and Pres. Obama. Take, for instance, the recent debate over the new START treaty. Reagan started it, he dreamed of a world without nuclear weapons, but the GOP took the hard line stance against it and the President to score political points. At the same time, you had Palin who said that Reagan never would have agreed to such terms with Russia and would have “kicked some butt cause that’s the American way!” While history and everyone that was involved in Reagan’s presidency say that’s not true, that he was much more of a pragmatist than a ideologue like many in the Republican party are today.
Or how about the ideal that Reagan was all about small government and low taxes when, in fact, he broke many of his own ideals because they clashed with common sense. In this way, Reagan and Obama share much more in common than people think. Reagan spoke of government: “it is not my intention to do away with government. It is, rather, to make it work — work with us, not over us; to stand by our side, not ride on our back. Government can and must provide opportunity, not smother it.”
Obama reiterated this Reagan commitment saying: “The question is not whether the government is too big or too small, “but whether it works — whether it helps families find jobs at a decent wage, care they can afford, a retirement that is dignified.”
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=100077084
Your perception of Reagan and perception of what liberals are trying to do is not correct. There are lots of conservatives on “liberal” TV given a fair voice: Joe Scarborough on MSNBC, Bob Schieffer on CBS’s Face the Nation who was close to Gov. George W. Bush, Lou Dobbs on CNN (until his departure in 2009). There are lots of conservative voices on TV and radio that are given a fair shake with their liberal counterparts (often together). But your particular brand of conservatism — extreme, inciting, false — has no place in any public arena. I might add that Palin and Rove and other conservatives are often featured on the Today Show, CNN, 60 Minutes in full, unedited interviews. So, I would think next time you speak because your perception is a bit off.
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Oldsun
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 12:19 pm
“Oh another fact of liberals – every dollar spent on unemployment allowance yields 1.6 back per Pelosi and 1.7 per Harry Reid”(you said). the truth those numbers come from the CBO and it esitmate in the economic effect of spending there are other lies in your comment but that alones proves that you have not fact checked yourself so your entire comment should be consider false.
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tmac
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 12:19 pm
Hey, why are you saying anyone is bashing RR? I’ve read this entire thread, and don’t see much of RR bashing, mainly factual statements. I lived in California during RR’s governorship. I was a child, and can only remember being ripped from our neighborhood school, and being told that there would be no more “arts” instruction, and no more sports, as there wasn’t funding for it. This was the beginning of RR’s legacy. He was a man, not a god, and lying about him is what liberals get upset about; not the facts.
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George Guadiane
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 2:21 pm
Why are you liberals so offended when someone talks of RR highly ?
SERIOUSLY? Did you hear the caller? Can you refute the facts of his questions?
Ronald Reagan was a magnificent orator and he had speech writers just like everyone else.
I DID NOT agree with most of the things that he did to help the rich at the expense of the rest of us. He did do a few things that were good for the whole country, but I’m inclined to think that wasn’t his intention.
We are not offended by the admiration, per se, we’re offended by the admiration of the MYTH. We’re offended by the admiration of things he did that helped so few and is represented as great for America. It WAS helpful to RICH America, but, for instance closing mental hospitals and turning patients into homeless people was unconscionable. And that was one of the LITTLE things he did against America.
And THIS:
“Whenever liberals give facts they give it out of context to make it look good in their favor.”
Are you suggesting that whenever “Conservatives” present facts (or what they represent as such) that they(you) don’t at least TRY to give the most “Conservative” friendly spin they/you can???
Grow up.
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Dan Secrist
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 12:31 pm
Ronnie was the most articulate, and persuasive advocate for the legitimacy of supply-side economic theory. Since then our productivity at work has steadily increased, while our wages and benefits have stagnated. More recently this has accelerated, with more and more of the “wealth” produced by all this productivity increasing only the cash balances of fictional persons, and the very small number of people who “manage” them. Reid, Pelosi and Limbaugh ultimately serve the same masters. Liberals AND conservatives are the Punch and Judy show that helps keep us all distracted from the vast re-distribution of wealth and power which has already taken place. The current primary function of government is to preserve things as they are. Look up Romer’s Rule, and Gresham’s Law.
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S.L.Johnson
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 3:34 am
I sense it was a enormous misfire. Rush thought the caller would make him look good by sputtering out retardation, but he actually came across as intelligent and didn’t back down. Then, of course, Media Matters (Funded by George Soros) used it to their advantage.
You win some, you lose some. But in the end, I win.
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Dan Secrist
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 12:17 pm
What do you win?
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JD Busch
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 12:05 am
The truth is that Reagan was a self serving actor who sold the country out to big business. His actions in the Middle East resulted in the creation of Saddam and Al-Qaeda through funding and training by the CIA. He drove the deficit into the stratosphere, de regulated as though it was his job ( perhaps thats why he had the political contributions?)
which resulted in the disasters that were Enron and Abramoff. Many of the current issues we face in this country are the direct result of Reagan’s action while in the White House.
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Lilly Winters
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 12:33 am
Rush seems to be falling all over himself here.. What an insane man he is.
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BeeEss
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 12:40 am
IMO the right is trying to make Reagan into a sort of god. Notice how they don’t mention Bush, who is the latest Republican. I bet we will see the new House of Representatives try to make Reagan’s birthday a holiday. You know, so we can all remember how great he was. Lincoln was their last hero, yet they don’t mention him. How come? Maybe because Lincoln was more like a Democrat than a modern day Republican.
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sher747
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 1:39 am
You will be quite disappointed I guess. Reagan already has a library and that is all the memorial we need. And there is a navy ship like many other pres. It is always nice to see how liberals reflect on conservatives – just the way they see themselves. You want to know how conservatives celebrate Reagan ? Listen to Mark Leven show today (2/3/2011) archived just for you folks for free. Take a ride and judge yourself how many great lines of wisdom has RR spoken and contrast with utter misery of concocted annotations out here in this blog.
I saw this nonsensical posting through one of my friends in Facebook. Yes I have liberal friends and tolerate them too ! Most often let these slide, but once in a while like to give you folks few words of encouragement to think twice about what your liberal friends talk and twisted facts from elements like Kruggman & Co.
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BeeEss
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 2:01 am
Bullshit! You don’t see liberals trying to make a god out of Clinton or Carter, no matter what good ideas they had. The right is trying to make Reagan into an iconic president ala Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt, Kennedy. Epic Fail!
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S.L.Johnson
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 3:42 am
True… but you do see the main stream media today making a God out of Obama… Hmmm…
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Dan Secrist
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 1:29 pm
I do? Where?
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Anonymous Coward
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 7:49 am
So, Sher, you’re not aware that there’s a movement to get some government property named after Reagan in all 3130 counties / parishes / boroughs / independent municipalities of the USA?
http://www.politicsdaily.com/2011/02/02/ronald-reagan-lives-on-in-schools-streets-and-battleships/
Nor are you aware that the same crowd wants to add his face to Mount Rushmore with the likes of Washington, Lincoln, and Jefferson, not to mention Teddy Roosevelt?
Either you are clueless or misleading….and I can’t tell which.
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leron
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 1:44 am
Even when Reagan was president, he was lauded by right wingers for stuff he didn’t do, and forgiven immediately for stuff he actually did. Then and now, the right wingers like the idea better than the reality — as always — and the myth becomes more important than the real person. This is not far from the thinking of people who will scream at young women entering abortion clinics in an effort to scare them out of the procedure, but when children are actually born and end up poor, abused and often dead, they do not blink. It’s the idea, the abstract,they love and cherish.
Reagan was a stone cold liar, one of the best ever. I saw him several times doing his thing, liva and up close, and even as I knew he was lying and representing all I hope to defeat in this life, I could not help but feel warmly toward him. Pretty amazing.
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tmac
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 12:27 pm
Well said. Well said.
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RR4GOD2012
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 3:14 am
Don’t you know, RR died for republican sins. He had to raise taxes to fund his ascension to our deity so i makes it all ok. Since the tax increases were to help create Reagenanity we can ignore them, pretend they never existed and all will be right. Dont worry, it has been written that RR will return and take the true believers to that great big ranch in the sky.
Dont worry about future tax increases since the top 1% will all be taken to reaven (reagen heaven) the other 99% will remain earthbound and heavily taxed so that we can shoot missiles filled with gold to the Reagians so that they may fill our glasses with what trickles down from them (think of the beer and urine that pours through the boards on any given boardwalk on spring break). And we better be happy with that, cause they could keep that for themselves if they wanted too.
Just dreaming happy delusional conservative thoughts here…
BTW any one besides me ever notice that the conservatives want CHANGE EVERYTHING and liberals are rather content and not seeking widespread and drastic socio-econmic changes. Seems to me even their label is a LIE!
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DRae
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 3:26 am
THANK YOU for the info. DID *ANYONE* GET THIS CALLER- WITH- BRAIN-AND- NOT- AFRAID- TO- USE- IT’S NAME/CONTACT INFO? Would like to hear more from him/her.
I am with you til the last paragraph…not all of us Christians blame the questioner, attack information and “retreated” to faith.
I myself as a Christian have questioned, sought information, weighed the facts/findings and concluded that my findings bring me back to the belief that Jesus Christ is my Savior.
Likewise, I can name numerous scientists that believe God exists- not something that hard science facts support. They have experienced God on a level that hard science cannot substantiate. Another take: Look, you have feelings/emotions. What facts support that your emotions even exist if you don’t show/share your feelings? We all know feelings exist.
Crybaby John Boehner reminds us of that.
But we have no facts to support that we internally feel them. We all know what would happen if the significant others in our lives expressed their feelings and we responded with doubt that those we care about have those feelings because we have no facts to support that they internally feel them…do NOT try this at home, only trained professionals should attempt this.
Look, try this. If it works for you, fine. If not, you’re out nothing. I know hundreds of fact loving people like me who are also Christian.
Most important-You have to be OPEN to finding out the truth, which is likely since you are reading in this column in the first place. In a sincere/respectful way ask/pray-like you would to someone who deserves respect- Jesus, if you are real, SHOW ME. It is different for each person-be open to the results.
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Anonymous Coward
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 7:53 am
On the Christian thing…if you want to believe in it, that’s your free right and choice. BUT IT IS NOT PROVABLE, NOR FALSIFIABLE, THEREFORE IT’S NOT EITHER A FACT OR SCIENTIFIC.
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Bluerinse666
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 4:09 am
Article at DKos by the caller
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/2/4/941351/-I-chatted-with-Rush-Limbaugh-about-Ronald-Reagan-today-%28you-can-listen%29
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K
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 4:29 am
Tried and true Republican tactics. Claim a bunch of stuff and hope no one looks anything up and when people ask why or how just tell them “I dont have to prove anything to you” or “you wouldn’t understand it”.
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Realistically
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 10:37 am
Somebody like Rush just needs to be put down before he does any more harm. The guy is a cancer, and HE has drawn the line himself that this argument is a fight to the death. Us liberals need to wake up to a nasty little fact about scumbags like Rush: they fully intend for liberals TO DIE because we are not loyal to their money / power / ideology system. Translated into mafia-speak it’s like this: “I have 40 million bucks in this game, and since you won’t listen to the boss man who’s running this show I’m gonna effin whack ya, and I’m gonna whack your family.” There’s no logic there, no truth, and no compassion. Just a baldfaced demand for sheer obedience on pain of violence.
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S.L.Johnson
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 3:46 am
Whew! Are you suggesting that we kill Rush Limbaugh?
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Dan Secrist
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 1:31 pm
What do mean “we”?
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Barry Schlecht
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 10:42 am
I am perhaps a “closet democrat” but I tout myself as a moderate republican. I am a proponet of responsible representation of what the people want. Less government and responsible government. What does that make me politically? All I know is that extreme positions on either side of the political spectrom is akin to “jihad”. Government is a system of responsible compromise where the majority rules.
I do have a Reagan story that directly effected me. I am retired on a pension. I am thankful that it is a very good one. I also worked outside my prior job in various capacities that required me to pay into the social security system and built up my account over many years. I worked a lot in that capacity as an hourly worker and as a business owner. So, to make a long story short, I had a nice amount comming to me that I EARNED! Thanks to Reagan, I am told, my social security earnings were cut in half to avoid a “windfall” payment to me from social security! Now I don’t know how you may feel but I feel that if you work and earn something you are entitled to it. If the government wants to take from those who have and give to those who have not, I can at least write it off as a ” contribution “. However, when government takes from those who have earned it and gives it to itself, that is theft, or taxation by a different name, not to mention discusting!! We are all working hard to make a better life for ourselves and our families and it is so criminal what big business is doing to bring us all down to the gutter by stealing our future retirement accounts and getting bailed out for their trouble! Banks are not our friends. We all need to be more of a voice for what is fair and what is right for all of us. Compassion and common sense must be a part of our consideration and everyone must be taken into account in what we do politically. We are a great nation because we care for each other. That is the backbone of our greatness and the cornerstone of our beliefe sustem. “Extremism” is just another name for “jihad”. And, last but not least, Ronald Reagan was not a great man. At most, he was just another president.
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Shiva (Moderator)
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 11:12 am
A very small minority are making a big deal of less government. However they are doing it for the behest of financial corporates who want the government weakened and unable to control financial matters. The tea party, of whom we are speaking have no concept of what they support. The size of the government is meaningless, what it does it meaningful.
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S.L.Johnson
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 3:49 am
Maybe the size of gov. is also meaningful? You wouldn’t want some business to control most of the economy, so why allow the federal reserve to do it?
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Dan Secrist
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 1:33 pm
Now that is a good question.
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Heywood
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 11:35 am
As my 14 year old son would say:
“Rush got PWNED!”
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Sam
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 4:16 pm
Your son sounds ’bout as stupid as your comment… Anything else constructive your son said, except quoting the dumbest word that somehow made its way into our lives?
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Jeremy
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 5:37 pm
Ummm…not that it matters in the conversation in any way, but honestly, way to attack a child for using the everyday “text” and gamer lingo that seems so prevalent in this day and age….and please let me point out that Rush did indeed get his ass handed to him. Heywood’s comment is actually pretty funny and considering that a 14 year old seems to make this comment that, to me, suggests volumes about what he has learned or has been taught by friends, family, educators, etc.
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S.L.Johnson
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 3:51 am
Same here. That there is a fine, upstanding young man. He was taught by the best. Our fine, public indoctr- er, I mean, school system.
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David Gross
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 12:04 pm
I find it very ironic that the National Airport in Washington DC was renamed to honor Reagan when it was he who broke the air traffic controller’s union.
Then they name one of the largest, most expensive building that the federal government has built after him too. The Ronald Reagan Building & International Trade Center cost taxpayers $768 Million to build and is second in size only to the Pentagon.
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Anonymous Coward
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 5:06 pm
Agreed! Again, it’s kind of funny that ‘small-government’-types try to paste his name on all sorts of government property. See http://www.reaganlegacyproject.com/ for more info, if you have a strong stomach.
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David
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 1:19 pm
Pretty much all you need to know how neo-cons REALLY feel about Reagan (as opposed to the IDEA of Reagan…kind of like how they feel about the founding fathers and the IDEA of the founding fathers) is when Obama proposed cutting our nuclear arsenal by a third, Sarah Palin responding with ‘Boy howdy I sure miss RONALD REAGAN (cheers from the audience)’, and a clip of Ronald Reagan proposing cutting our nuclear arsenal by a third.
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S.L.Johnson
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 3:52 am
That is pretty funny. Wow, Sarah Palin is dumb. Boy howdy, am I glad she’s not trying to grow government to control me and the amount of time it takes to see my doctor. :)
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Dan Secrist
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 1:35 pm
You actually have doctor?
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Merely Amused
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 2:15 pm
One of the first things Reagan did was cut all the programs that would have weaned us from energy dependence on oil. He took the solar panels off the White House as a direct bow to the oil people, killed the R & D for alternate power sources and trashed the environmental movement, which felt the sting for over a decade.
Oh, and I was probably the first person to lose a job because of him. The day after he took office, he canceled a research grant that allowed for one support employee–me.
A lot of people are fixated on the tax aspects of his “reign”, but forget that he was the one whose idea of immigration reform was to change the rules for visas from Mexico so only 35K applications a year would be accepted (in contrast, Ireland gets over 50K allotted). He also allowed changes in the penalty structure so that businesses would no longer be fined by the body, but by the incident. Before, a business could be fined up to $2K for each person working illegally. Despite the 1986 law still listing the fines per body, Reagan instigated the de facto change to a much lower fine per INCIDENT–so if there were 1000 people arrested, the fine went down from a possible $2M to as low as $15K.
Anyway, the fines are so low, businesses that hire illegals factor the fines into their budgets. So Reagan, in a sense, opened those floodgates everyone likes to blame the Dems for.
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Jeremy C.
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 2:32 pm
Let’s not forget an epidemic that began during the regan administration, where in response to it regan stuck fingers in ears and said NANANANANANANAN!
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StevieRay
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 2:47 pm
I still don’t understand why people still listen to, believe with their tiny little hearts, regurgitate his words, and worship this lame-brained, loud-mouthed, fat-assed phony!
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S.L.Johnson
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 3:54 am
You mad, bro?
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jim hanson
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 2:49 pm
Once again, the libbies have failed civics class. No President “raises taxes”–that is the sole province of the House of Representatives. Reagan had a Donk congress during both of his terms–if you want to blame someone for the crime of “raising taxes”–blame the Donks.
Interesting–the partisans of the party of Big Government and associated tax and spending blames Reagan for the crime of (wait for it…………….wait……………..wait………………….RAISING TAXES!) (laugh)
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Jan
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 3:03 pm
Perhaps it is you, Jim, that failed civics class……
Federal taxes are passed as laws, voted on by the members of both houses of Congress and signed by the President.
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Anonymous Coward
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 5:08 pm
So, uh, Jim, how did the tax DECREASES he’s credited with happen? Was that Congress, too?
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S.L.Johnson
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 3:55 am
Thank you. Let’s hope your statement changes any of these infertile minds.
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Anonymoose
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 11:43 am
See, this is what I find funny. People who are using this excuse that it’s Congress’ fault are using the opposite when it comes to Obama and what he’s been signing.
Now I’m not saying that you’re one of those same people, but to the people who are, you can’t go and say that it’s Obama’s fault that bills are passed because he’s signed them and then turn around and say it’s Congress’ fault that taxes were raised during the Reagan administration.
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Mark Freeman
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 3:33 pm
Reagan doesn’t need a canonization, he needs an exorcism.
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Jeremy
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 5:38 pm
I need an old priest and a young priest…..THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU, THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU…
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Sam
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 4:04 pm
Ok, first of all, no one was OWNED. I’m sick of hearing that damn word, and now there’s ‘pwned’ which means virtually nothing, yet is used in chats.
Suddenly calling a radio veteran and making him stumble with his words meaning ‘owning’ him? It’s a free f-ing country, no one owns anyone…
Funny thing is – I’m a liberal, I’m not against raising taxes, and pro-choice, and anti-death penalty. But I’m not gonna sit here and jump like a lunatic and say “ohhh, that caller owned Limbaugh, you go, man…” Conservatives are just as wise as liberals. The problem lately is that people ‘label’ themselves by their political standpoints, which makes them feel like they gotta fight to the death when someone challenges them well.
I’m better labeled as American who leans in the liberal, or democrat thinking, versus calling me a leftist. The caller was smarter than many of Limbaugh’s callers, that’s true. I don’t see why Limbaugh didn’t simply say, “where the heck do you get the notion that every conservative worships Reagan? He’s looked up to for many things he’s done, and yes, he raised taxes, but he did right based on the situation. Not in every situation is raising taxes the answer.”
Whatever was going through Limbaugh’s head we’ll never know… but just ’cause one called got him to stumble with words does NOT mean he got a 20-some year radio veteran to step down from his hypothetical “throne” as the best of the best in radio.
I haven’t found more interesting shows than Limbaugh, Hannity, and Lewis yet. I lean towards liberalism in thinking, but I’m sickened to read comments like “this called owned Limbaugh.”
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Jim
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 2:00 am
Well said Sam………………. we have, for toooo long posted BS, in order to defend our “heros”! I am a conservative, but I no longer see how hating each other like a bunch of mad animals, does any “good”. I admit I have done my share of whining in the past, and still do not agree with much of the liberal agendas or ideology. But when it’s all said & done, if we don’t unite, we can damage this country more than al Quada. I listen to Rush & liberal Juan Williams both! Don’t agree 100% with either, but that’s their right & mine! People who post this crap are not interested in advancing our country. Only looking for a personal satisfaction, that “they have thrown another punch” at the opposition! God help us all. hmmmmm Momma said “if ya got nothin’ good to say, shut up! Good advise. LOL
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S.L.Johnson
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 3:59 am
It doesn’t matter how you think, as long as you’re not trying to force others into something they don’t want… or force them to think like you. That’s the real issue these days. BOTH SIDES want to force everyone to do something or think a certain way. The founding fathers understood that the key to freedom was to allow freedom of thought and expression… and speech. The hypocrites here will say “Rush should be banned” and then get angry when the same thing is said about them.
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Anonymoose
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 11:46 am
Then I’ll settle for saying Rush was beaten because he didn’t have much of a response and resorted to saying the caller wouldn’t understand it if he tried to explain it.
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SheShe
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 4:53 pm
I lived through the terrible economic disaster that was REAGANOMICS…nothing trinkled down as he fictaciously claimed …it has been said by many that Reagan must have LOVED poor people…because he made so many of them!! He never helped the middle class or poor no republicans do..so the middle class that buy into the conservative philosophies are sad, and obviously oblivious to history, thus uneducated.
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S.L.Johnson
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 4:01 am
Careful who you call uneducated. The very same thing could be said to you, and we wouldn’t want that…
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The Old Man
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 5:40 pm
The truly uneducated have no idea what is going on in this country. I lived through the Reagon era, and Carter, and Nixon and even Kennedy. This problem we are Not dealing with has been going on for many more decades then anyone wants to admit. Cast blame where you like, but know that the blame is ours for allowing politicians from both ends of the spectrum to get away with doing nothing for the good of the American People, only for the good of themselves.
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nick
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 9:41 pm
For years liberals have charaterized Reagan as a right wing nut job. Now they are out to prove he wasn’t? When did this happen?
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Shiva (Moderator)
Feb. 5th, 2011 at 9:49 pm
He was right wing. But he was not the god that people make him out to be. Boehner and Cantor are right wing nut jobs. Reagan was right wing
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S.L.Johnson
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 4:02 am
ROFL! Good one.
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S.L.Johnson
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 4:03 am
Boys, boys, boys! Stop the fighting! You forget… Media Matters is owned by George Soros. He’s one of the richest men alive! Do you think he cares about you when he bets against the dollar to win huge sums of money when it fails?
If you really want to play the whole class warfare game (which I KNOW is at the root of this), then attack Media Matters and George Soros. Geesh.
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Piper
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 2:49 pm
Where is your evidence for the claim that George Soros is betting against the U.S. dollar? Do you even know how currency speculation works?
Also, Soros is the 35th wealthiest guy in the world, and has probably done more to promote democracy abroad than either Reagan or Bush. Further, the Koch brothers are at 23 and 24, respectively, with over double Soros’ net worth combined. Both of them support conservative causes, in the same way Soros supports liberal causes.
Where does Media Matters and George Soros attack class? I mean for Christ’s sake, George Soros helped destroy the supposedly classless communist systems in Eastern Europe. What do you even think “class warfare” is?
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tony
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 9:19 am
didn’t Bush the first loose a election on read my lips, no more taxes. He said this because Reagan raised the taxes so many times. Rush conveniently forgets, as do many conservatives, how much damage was done economically and world wide by Republicans in general. The Republicans have had 20 plus years of Presidency since 81. The Dems have had 10 years,now that is 2/3 rds of the years we have had right wing politics and look how screwed up they have made the country. Only under Clinton have we seen a surplus in our economy and Obama in his 2 years has had a tough time straightenning the mess the right has made. Isn’t it about time the people of this country realize the right uses all sorts of gimmicks to win at all cost.
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Anonymoose
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 11:48 am
Not just that, but it was either that the house or congress (not sure which) was controlled by the Republicans during both the years of the Great Depression and also during the Bush administration. Which I find funny due to how both have been the worst times economy-wise.
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JT
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 2:00 pm
Get the joke, Rush. You claim that this caller represents the impossibility of bridging the gap, but no, YOU represent the impossibility of bridging the gap. This caller will never get why you like Reagan because this caller uses reason and facts, and cannot comprehend people who operate using fantasy and wishful delusions. The caller hit you with FACTS, and you cannot bridge the gap to facts because the facts paint a picture you don’t like, and don’t want to see. Rush, the gap cannot be bridged because you refuse to acknowledge facts. Which makes you part of the problem, not part of the solution.
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The Old Man
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 5:31 pm
I find it funny, if not sad that so many people want to blame the Liberals, or the Conservatives for their lot in life. This group destroyed the economy, that group sent us into war, this group is responsible for foreign steel, that group is responsible for high gas prices. It goes on and on and NO ONE wants to see the truth, but everyone claims to KNOW the truth. So here is MY claim. All politicians are greedy and care only for themselves and those who support them. Policies are enacted and laws are passed to help their friends and no thought is given to those of us who must pay for their greed. Look at the history of this country, Dems and Reps alike have been equally responsible for the good things that have happened as well as the bad. If we as a people stop fighting about which party is the best or worst and start fighting the true evil that is ruining our country; which is politics as it has always been practiced, then we will see some real changes that actually help us. Grow up and quit bickering among yourselves with your cerebral positions and posturing. Why do Representatives spend millions to get elected? Certainly not for the salary they collect, ( which is more than they deserve given their inability to improve OUR lives), they crave the power. Well let that be their compensation, not a salary and free medical benefits for themselves and their families. The soldiers fighting in Iraq have to pay for medical benefits for their families and they are risking their lives. What are politicians risking? Not getting re-elected? Not collecting a full pension for the rest of their lives? Why does a president deserve a pension after only 4 or 8 years of work? Do any of us get that? What happened to getting what we pay for? We are paying them to to look out for us and haven’t ever gotten it, not from the Dems or the Reps. But the proof of what I’m saying is coming, wait to see what happens in the next 2 years. The present regime now has to think about getting re-elected… ;o)
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AtlasAyn
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 9:33 pm
The last paragraph of this article can also be said about liberals and global warming. Same exact thing, there’s absolutely no difference in their reactions.
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AtlasAyn
Feb. 6th, 2011 at 9:43 pm
Or how about when a conservative confronts a liberal about Obama? Same reaction. SAME EXACT THING! The liberal, progressive left is just as bad, out of touch and unrealistic as the conservative, Christian right. Both groups are complete lunatics.
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George Guadiane
Feb. 7th, 2011 at 8:54 am
I see the accusation, but that’s all.
Make your case, be specific, be factual.
In what way do we Obama supporters respond like Rush did?
What are your questions for us that will fluster and stymie us?
Its easy to SAY that we don’t have answers, but without questions, you’re lying as far as I.m concerned.
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AtlasAyn
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 1:33 am
So you pin me as a “liar” for making a legitimate argument. So typical. You Obama supporters respond like Rush did by immediately becoming offended if anyone questions his policies. Thereby calling the opposing person a “racist, nut job”. You all have the same reactions, like a bunch of trained monkeys. That goes for the Republicans as well.
Questions? Ok. How is it constitutional for a president and a political party to monopolize the country? How is it constitutional to “fundamentally transform” America in your own personal ideological view? How is Obama NOT a socialist? Or maybe he’s just a Fascist like the Bush clan. Either way, his political agenda is making government bigger and more intrusive in our lives. Is he not? He’s Bush’s third term, and you libs can’t even see that. You’re so blinded by the glory of the Almighty “Obama”.
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Shiva (Moderator)
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 7:58 am
So go for it. How did Obama “monopolize the country?” Do you have any idea how silly that is?
and then there is silly one #2
” How is it constitutional to “fundamentally transform” America” I am thinking that went way over your head real fast. You have no idea whats happening here do you?
And then
“How is Obama NOT a socialist?” I agree, he is not a socialist.
This madse me cry
“his political agenda is making government bigger and more intrusive in our lives.”
And exactly how is he doing that? You throw out talking points that weak minds use, but have nothing to back it up. Get busy, we have time to wait for you
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AtlasAyn
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 1:36 pm
Lol! Sorry, but your Alinsky tactics won’t work on me. It’s common sense, the farther the Republican and Democratic parties have gone away from the Constitution, the closer we’ve come to Socialism and Communism. Bailouts, health care, the auto industry, using pseudo science to further “global warming” as a way to control, regulate and tax. Trying to destroy the free market, by instilling a fake energy tax.Phony stimulus packages open up billions of tax payer dollars to fund left-wing groups like ACORN. The absolute insane amount Obama is spending far outweighs what any other president has ever spent. And he’s only been in office for 2 years! I could go on and on forever, but, to no avail. It makes me sad that you people are too brainwashed to see it. It doesn’t matter whether you are a Democrat, Independent or a Republican. It doesn’t matter whether you are for or against the health bill. The next bill they pass may be one you are against and they will not listen to you anymore than they listened to the majority this time.
What does matter is whether you want to keep your freedom or become enslaved. Those are the two choices we are now left with. And it’s people like you that are making it possible for the politicians to succeed in enslaving us. This goes against your fundamental beliefs, I know, so of course you revert to attacks, more questions, and just blatantly dismissing everything I just said. But go ahead, I know you progressives are suckers for punishment. You always come back for more.
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Shiva (Moderator)
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 1:53 pm
You are getting funnier. Thanks for the entertainment
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Shiva (Moderator)
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 1:55 pm
I would still like some answers to your commie socialist paranoia routine
So go for it. How did Obama “monopolize the country?” Do you have any idea how silly that is?
and then there is silly one #2
” How is it constitutional to “fundamentally transform” America” I am thinking that went way over your head real fast. You have no idea whats happening here do you? Or what that means
And then
“How is Obama NOT a socialist?” I agree, he is not a socialist.
This madse me cry
“his political agenda is making government bigger and more intrusive in our lives.”
And exactly how is he doing that? You throw out talking points that weak minds use, but have nothing to back it up. Get busy, we have time to wait for you
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George Guadiane
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 3:08 pm
AtlasAyn:
Lol! Sorry, but your Alinsky tactics won’t work on me. It’s common sense, the farther the Republican and Democratic parties have gone away from the Constitution, the closer we’ve come to Socialism and Communism.
I don’t see anything in Shiva’s post that suggests a “far left” agenda.
Bailouts, health care, the auto industry, using pseudo science to further “global warming” as a way to control, regulate and tax.
Bailouts (a Republican idea and original implementation) are/were BAD. As the last Industrialized nation to consider single payer, we are WAY behind the curve when compared to the rest of the civilized world… And coming into it last, we should best be able to learn from their mistakes AND apply our American ingenuity to come up with a most affordable, most efficient public health care system that continues to inspire and evolve the highest quality of health care available. The “Capitalist” model suggest that science will not evolve without the profit motive. That is ridiculous. (not all, but) SOME of the best teachers in the country simply love to teach and do it, IN SPITE OF THE LOW PAY… In the same way, scientist and doctors who NEED to make the next breakthrough will continue to seek answers, even if they have to spend their own money to do it. History shows us that, over and over again.
Global Warming may be misnamed, but it is a PREDOMINANTLY SCIENTIFICALLY ACCEPTED FACT. Everyone on the planet is responsible. Americans DO create a disproportionately larger impact. Taxes have been a means of controlling use for centuries.
Trying to destroy the free market, by instilling a fake energy tax.
Talk about hyperbole: Two questions; In what way has any tax in the past been directly responsible for “destroying” ANY free market? Is it your actual assertion that this President, this Congress (or any previous Congress, for that matter) has stated that they would and or actually set out to intentionally “destroy the free market?” Please enlighten me with specifics. The proposed energy tax is real (nothing fake about it).
Phony stimulus packages open up billions of tax payer dollars to fund left-wing groups like ACORN.
SERIOUSLY? Are you informed about ANYTHING??? ACORN is GONE. “Right” wing hit man (child) James O’Keefe edited footage to create the illusion that ONE ACORN employee was offering illicit information to a pimp and his “ho’.” He was shown to have CREATED AN ILLUSION RATHER THAN PRESENTING ACCURATE FACTS. That didn’t stop the “Right” wing from spinning and misrepresenting it for WEEKS. President Obama is interested in human well being, across the sociopolitical spectrum. What, exactly is wrong with that?
AND, of the “stimulus” money that our Government has given out, a PITTANCE has gone for this kind of work. The supreme majority of it has gone to “Business” who have not trickled much of it down to the rest of the country.
The absolute insane amount Obama is spending far outweighs what any other president has ever spent. And he’s only been in office for 2 years!
This President DID follow in the footsteps of the previous administration on this point (to my personal dismay). But even here, he only did what Republicans had already done, were strongly supporting and benefited most from. I would have been happy to see Wall Street and Banks suffer the consequences of their intentional convoluted ethics-less actions.
You don’t mention any of the money that President Obama has gotten back, how much is yet to be repaid, or the BILLIONS in interest that was generated as a result. I’ll grant you, its still not great, but it is not nearly as bad as you would have us believe.
I could go on and on forever, but, to no avail. (but mostly because your post lacks legitimate content) It makes me sad that you people are too brainwashed to see it. It doesn’t matter whether you are a Democrat, Independent or a Republican. It doesn’t matter whether you are for or against the health bill. The next bill they pass may be one you are against and they will not listen to you anymore than they listened to the majority this time.
This inaccuracy is disarticulated by the fact that we (the entire adult population) have frequent free elections where we (those who take the time to get registered to vote) have the right (which should be an obligation in my opinion) to send whomever we chose to represent us.
I’ll grant you, that the greedy and self serving are most often the only ones to run, but that is OUR FAULT. If we, as a Society, demanded a better field of candidates, we could/would get them.
What does matter is whether you want to keep your freedom or become enslaved. Those are the two choices we are now left with. And it’s people like you that are making it possible for the politicians to succeed in enslaving us.
Cast your vote, exercise your freedom. THAT is your choice. The decision of the MAJORITY is the consequence. If you don’t like it, get out a different vote. Don’t blame ANY of this on President Obama (or Bush for that matter).
This goes against your fundamental beliefs, I know, so of course you revert to attacks, more questions, and just blatantly dismissing everything I just said. But go ahead, I know you progressives are suckers for punishment.
What do you actually know of ANY of our “fundamental beliefs,” other than what you want them to be in order to dismiss us? You make accusations and cast aspersions, representing them as facts and then claim that WE just make sh*t up. Sorry, you have to do better than that.
You always come back for more.
You too
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Shiva (Moderator)
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 3:47 pm
Not to mention Obama saved well over 100,000 jobs with the Auto deals, jobs the GOP would have thrown away
You give good response, ty.
Obama has also created more jobs “net” than Bush did in 8 years.
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George Guadiane
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 1:18 pm
First, what was your “legitimate argument?”
For the record, on a number of fronts, I question some of his his policies, decisions and actions.
The only people I have called “racist” are those who have incorporated his ethnicity into their depiction, as if it is relevant. At THAT point, they ARE racists.
Same thing with the “Birthers,” not necessarily racists, but definitely nut jobs.
1) “How is it constitutional for a president and a political party to monopolize the country?” I need clarification on this: In what way do you see this President and the Democrats as “monopolizing the country?”
If you mean that because he won a clear majority of the Presidential election, based on his campaign promises and his known and or believed positions on various ideas and ideals? He’s a DEMOCRAT, not a Republican. He ran on those things, won a majority and then set out to do what he said…
Unlike this recent Republican landslide, where who promised to work on jobs as a first priority and so far have worked on repealing health care and ending freedom of choice for women (yes, I mean the right to chose whether or not to have an abortion), but nothing legitimate about jobs.
2)“How is it constitutional to “fundamentally transform” America in your own personal ideological view?” In what ways EXACTLY do you portend that he is doing this?
He IS trying to make good on his campaign promises… The people who voted for him think he is SUPPOSED to do that.
If you really think you have a LEGITIMATE Constitutional argument, send it off to the Republican dogmatition of your choice, I’m sure they’ll be happy to try and get the Duly Elected President removed from office like Kenneth Starr did with Bill Clinton.
3) “How is Obama NOT a socialist?” Because he says so. Wanting Social JUSTICE is not necessarily being Socialist. Republicans (Neocons/”Conservatives/etc) want to end any kind of support for truly needy people, but are happy to subsidize profitable industries and companies in the oil, agricultural, military, pharmaceutical sectors. AND, they do so without making a good deal for the Country. Taxpayers contribute to their wealth and get nothing in return.
I think President Obama will turn out to be one of the all time GREATS, if he just grows a pear or actually uses the ones that he has.
America NEEDS change. BIG CHANGE. In a country that lets Wall Street and Bank ROBBERS off without punishment and sends the poor and hungry to prison for stealing a slice of pizza, we have BIG problems. Those problems were, by and large, created by Congress and most of the giveaways to the politically connected, lobbyist laden Corporations came from Republicans… This while Big Business ships technology and jobs overseas to fatten their own bank accounts… At the expense of the well being and prosperity of the Country as a whole.
Government needs to be big enough to make sure that Corporations (who are now equal to people, according to the Conservative wing of the Supreme Court) follow the laws, pay their taxes, provide safe working environments, make sure that the bosses and/or the workers don’t run off with money and/or stuff that doesn’t belong to them. Make sure that taxes get paid. Make sure that the food and water supply is safe and adequate to our needs. Make sure that out infrastructure is safe and adequate to our needs in the present and that our future needs are considered and provided for. That… I could go on, Govenment needs to be a lot of things for ALL Americans. It needs to be that big.
My questions:
1) Do you trust the for profit “Health Insurance” industry to provide agreed upon health care, no matter how much it cost and without looking for a loophole to avoid payment?
2) Do you trust business and industry to provide a safe and healthy work environment for its employees and customers without any Government oversight?
3) Do you trust business and industry to provide the products it advertises without taking shortcuts or diluting the effectiveness of their products without Government oversight?
4) Do you believe that people who had the Bush tax cuts created any significant number of jobs as a result of those tax cuts?
5) AND, if you’re smart enough to answer the above with a resounding “NO,” then, do you believe that the Obama extension of those tax cuts will result in any job creation going forward?
President Obama is a disappointment to me, on a number of levels, but with all respect to your somewhat legitimate third term remark, his Presidency is head and shoulders above ANYTHING that a McCain administration could have provided.
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AtlasAyn
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 1:47 pm
Great response! Wonderful questions! I will definitely get back with you on this when I have time later today.
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Sarah Jones
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 2:07 pm
Ayn Rand took medicare and social security when she got older. FYI.
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Steve a Progressive Texan
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 2:35 pm
How is one group pointing out fallacies and lies the same as OR as bad as those making the fallacies and lies? How is one group advocating peaceful discourse the same as those making veiled threats?
That is a false equivalency…
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George Guadiane
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 3:10 pm
And typical of the “Right” wing…
Well said Steve.
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AtlasAyn
Feb. 9th, 2011 at 12:39 pm
I’m not a “right-winger”, like you want to assume, so bringing up the Republican party , Bush, FOX news or any of your other irrelevant BS won’t work with me. I despise Bush and I personally don’t see any difference between the two parties at this point. They are just extensions of one another. You admit we “need” big government, so why won’t you admit you’re a socialist? That’s the thing that really get’s to me, are you guys allergic to these terms? It would just be nice if you would all come out of the closet. You want wealth to be redistributed, you want socialized medicine, you want big government with more and more entitlement programs. So what is that exactly? Is that what America was meant to be?
You say global warming is real, and man kind is responsible for so called “climate change”. That’s your opinion, you have faith and believe that’s true. Just like a Christian or Muslim believes whole heatedly that their religion is true. There is no scientific fact to back your claim. You can believe in that nonsense all you want, and pay for your “carbon footprint” indulgences to your profit Al Gore, just keep me out of it!
Healthcare needs to be reformed, not socialized. Obama keeps saying over and over if his opposers have better ideas he’d love to hear them, BUT HE’S NOT LISTENING! There have been a lot of other suggestions people are putting out there for him. But he has an agenda to uphold, doesn’t he?
I think Obama has only disappointed you because he’s not making government as big as you’d like it. So how big should it be George? Just curious. Is there no limit?
you say:
“What do you actually know of ANY of our “fundamental beliefs,” other than what you want them to be in order to dismiss us? You make accusations and cast aspersions, representing them as facts and then claim that WE just make sh*t up”
DITTO!
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Allen Weber
Feb. 7th, 2011 at 11:57 am
George.Reread the whole article.The author is quite clear and factual about the sad legacy of your patron saint.Classical conservative Denial Whatever happened to all that WMD and the 4,400 people who died for George W Bush.Don’t change the subject This is about the myth of Ronald Reagan’s real legacy and the fact tat no conservative faced with the facts can argue with any liberal.Ronald Reagan is you fairy tale not mine.
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Anonymous
Feb. 7th, 2011 at 3:05 pm
Actually I believe George is responding to AtlasAyn, who says that people who question Obama get the exact same response. George is right. AtlasAyn (and the name says it all) just hurls that accusation with absolutely no evidence whatsoever. If anything, people on the left never stop questioning every single thing Obama does, so AtlasAyn is blowing smoke out of his or her…uh…smokestack.
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George Guadiane
Feb. 7th, 2011 at 11:24 pm
Thank you for reading me correctly. This “Right” wing doozy just made unfounded accusations and raised no issue to be responded to. It’s a great tactic (I guess) if you want people to take your word because you have no evidence.
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John Chester
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 12:42 am
The same tactic that Limbaugh used in the clip!
He just cemented the premise of the original discussion!
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AtlasAyn
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 1:41 am
Thank you for demonstrating my point. Just like the article says “for the believer their views are a matter of faith, not a statement of fact”. Those on the left AND the right are so far gone into their own personal Dogma, all you can do is attack when someone tries to bring reason into the conversation.
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George Guadiane
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 1:30 pm
I have now responded and asked a few basic questions of my own. I await a response.
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The Dark Knight
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 3:57 am
Where in the world is this caller getting his facts?? Ronald Reagan inherited an absolute economic mess in 1981 from one of the worst Presidents in history, Jimmy Carter. In 1981 we were on the verge of a depression. FACT #1: When Carter left office in January 1981, the top marginal tax rate was 69.13% (source: the tax policy center of the Brookings Institution). When Reagan left office in January 1989, the rate was 28%, a decrease of nearly 60%. By the way, Reagan decreased taxes “across the board”, not just for the wealthiest taxpayers. FACT#2: The month Carter left office, the Prime Rate was 20.5% (source: federalreserve.gov website). When Reagan left in Jan. 89, the rate was 11.0%, a decrease of 46%. FACT #3: When Carter left in Jan. 81, the unemployment rate was 7.6% (source: bureau of labor statistics). When Reagan left in Jan. 89 it was 5.3%, a decrease of 30%, meaning that 16 million people were put back to work. Yes, I remember vividly those dark days in 1982 when, because of the failed policies of Jimmy Carter, the prime rate was still sky high, the unemployment rate peaked at over 9%, and Reagan’s job approval rating had plummeted to 35%, with nobody giving him any chance of winning reelection. But when his “Reaganomics” finally kicked in during 1983, he won reelection easily in 1984, and America ended up enjoying one of its greatest economic expansions in history. And you Democrats keep wondering why the Republicans want Ronald Reagan chiseled on Mt. Rushmore?? THESE ARE THE FACTS PEOPLE!! Reagan was not a tax increaser! Reagan did not increase inflation! Reagan did not increase unemployment! Facts are facts!! Deal with it!!
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George Guadiane
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 1:29 pm
NONE of those “facts” refute the points made by the caller.
Neither do they excuse the points made by the caller nor do they make this man worthy of the adoration, adulation and misrepresentation given him by the rich “Right.”
Deal with that.
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Ty
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 1:36 pm
So it’s kinda like giving Obama a nobel peace prize, right?
Just like your inexplicable showers of glory and grandeur for a professional paper-pusher, our reverence for Reagan cannot be quantified statistically. Reagan talked up a good game, and that is important in a recession. The constant downer of Jimmeh sitting around in a cardigan was just depressing. Reagan reminded Americans what they were working and suffering recessions for. And sometimes, when a clusterf—- of profligate Democrats in the House demand it, you just might have to raise taxes. Ultimately, he believed in lowerng taxes, reducing the intrusion of the federal government, and however flawed his execution he had a sincerity that most Democrats (aside from maybe Clinton) couldn’t match.
When Americans were rationaing gas and planting food in their backyards during WWII it wasn’t to pay penance, to suffer for suffering sake – they were “victory gardens”, and riding alone meant riding with Hitler. There was a grander, positive cause of defeating absolute evil. Michelle and Barack are telling us to use less gas and plant veggies, too – except they are telling us to do it because we are a bunch of fat cows and we are raping the earth. Obama’s “Kennedy moment” to the Chamber of Commerce was more of a “Carter moment”, telling business owners that they had a responsibility to hire his lazy, undereducated constituents and share profits with them – roaring applause absent.
That is why people still love Reagan and Obama will just be another Jimmeh with a tan.
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Shiva (Moderator)
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 1:52 pm
Anyone around from Reagans time remembers how many deductions on their taxes they paid to make up for the cuts in the taxes on the wealthy too.
“usiness owners that they had a responsibility to hire his lazy, undereducated constituents and share profits with them”
Its ok, we see that along with Reagan, you are anti American as well. If you have to say that over 50% of voting Americans are lazy, then you are just as anti American workers as Reagan was.
What a silly talking point post that was
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Shiva (Moderator)
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 1:58 pm
BTW, beleiving in something then doing the exact opposite does not elevate you to god status. Part of the reason we are in the mess we are in today is because of Reagan and his beleifs that were executed backwards for his corporate masters. So far Obama has done nothing that bad that even compares to Reagan.
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George Guadiane
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 3:24 pm
OK, now the “Jimmeh with a tan” remark is racist.
Everything else you say is tainted by that.
I can’t speak for anyone else, but I’m not convinced that President Obama deserved the Nobel Peace Prize at this point in time – but it’s not my call.
Yasser Arafat certainly didn’t deserve it (not that that is relevant to anything other than to demonstrate my ability to reason and resolve).
You can revere whomever you like. My issue is when you try and push nonfactual representations as facts and then use them to qualify your guy for Mt Rushmore.
About the taxes; Are you one of the top 2%? If you are, would your financial situation be utterly destroyed if you kicked in a little more? Not the point? What IS the point and can you make it without sounding like a socially unconscious slug?
Wait, your next paragraph proves that you are one.
Misscharacterization of us (the constituents) AND racism… NICE
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Shirley Mitchem
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 2:06 pm
Reagan has no place on Mt. Rushmore.
This country is in a mess. Why doesn’t the conservatives, Republicans , Democrats forget their “Values” What their party stands for, and work for the good of the
WHOLE U.S.A. we need JOBS, TURN THE ECONOMY AROUND.
trying to take down this “Black President” is the first goal of the Conservative and
Republicans and good old Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachmann. And these people have
“RELIGION” JOBS AND THIS COUNTRY IS NOT THE CONSERVATIVES OR REPUBLICANS 1ST GOAL. IT’S GET BACK THE WHITE HOUSE.”
JOBS AND ECONOMY WILL COME LATER?
IT TOOK A DECADE BEFORE PRES. OBAMA TOOK OFFICE TO PUT THIS COUNTRY WITH OUT JOBS AND A LOUSY ECONOMY.
NOW THEY WANT THEIR JOBS AND A GOOD ECONOMY BACK IN THE FIRST 20MONTH. AND THE CONSERVATIVES WANTED THE SAME THING BUT IN
SHORTER TIME. IT WON’T HAPPEN.
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Ty
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 2:22 pm
“Its ok, we see that along with Reagan, you are anti American as well”
And I’M the one with the silly talking point? At least you didn’t jump for the race- or Nazi-card, perhaps the intellectual depth of the left is deepening. I’m going to go out on a limb and guess you don’t run a business, or own one, because if you did, you would know that your job is not to hire people, but to produce a product. Again, a relatively basic truth of commerce that our leader, having been a bureaucrat and “activist” for nearly his entire life, fails to understand. Hopefully, if the president’s waffling on fiscal policy and setting heath care entitlement time bombs don’t scare them into the bunkers, bussinesses will hire people and distribute profits as a side effect of what they are actually supposed to do.
“BTW, beleiving in something then doing the exact opposite does not elevate you to god status. ”
Well no wonder you are so confused! You keep projecting your human-worshipping tendencies on to conservatives. I’ll leave this idol-worship to the O-ba-ma chanting Kool-Aid burpers. Reagan was just a man, and we wish future presidents had his optimism and wit. And it is just a little aggrivating that despite all his horrible, monsterous failings that none on the left can forgive him for, his suck-sessors have universally sucked more. I’d rather have Reagan, replete with all his failings, than the con-man with the fake accent we have now.
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George Guadiane
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 3:31 pm
Ty says:
“I’m going to go out on a limb and guess you don’t run a business, or own one, because if you did, you would know that your job is not to hire people, but to produce a product. “
I’ll let the rest of your comment go, but let me saw that limb off behind you in your tree of high and mighty:
I own a small business, I work with my wife. We were doing fine, making a decent living. We hired another person to ease the burden on us and MAKE A PROFIT on the labors of another… BUT, one can run a business, make a profit, employ more people (at a decent wage) and make more money without having the bottom line be the first and only priority.
The idea that this fact is the exclusive property of Republicans is as retarded as the idea that tax cuts for the American Rich produces more AMERICAN jobs.
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Ty
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 3:52 pm
“BUT, one can run a business, make a profit, employ more people (at a decent wage) and make more money without having the bottom line be the first and only priority”
Really going out on a limb hiring someone to make you money. I’ll go out on a limb and guess that if that new hire was LOSING you money, you’d dump them before tehy took you to the poorhouse, like any other businessman. And the president can give you a lecture on the social responsibility you have to work your a$$ off so you can hire some unionized clock-watcher, so their union will have more money to plow into his reelection campaign in 2012.
Being in business to make money isn’t exclusive property of Republicans any more than being a wage-sucking bureaucrat or money-absorbing purposeless social “activist” is the exclusive property of Democrats, or blowing up busses full of schoolkids is the property of Islamists…but they don’t call it a stereoptype for no reason, either
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George Guadiane
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 4:10 pm
Notwithstanding the idiocy of your suggestion that “wage-sucking bureaucrat or money-absorbing purposeless social “activist” is the exclusive property of Democrats” is a factual or common representation of social activism. Trying to stop teenage sexual activity is “social activism.” Is that bad? It’s stupid and pointless, but it’s an admirable objective. Trying to teach adults to read BLAH BLAH BLAH – I think you get the point… If you don’t want people to think you’re stupid, don’t say stupid things.
That’s IT??? “but they don’t call it a stereotype for no reason, either?”
Yes, if it were shown to be a bad business decision, we would have mad adjustments. NONE of the first choices and none of the alternatives would have included having it done off shore because it would widen the profit margin. Keeping jobs, income, American money AT HOME is about as Patriotic as an employer can be.
And you don’t have to have a political ideology to do it. Morals, concern, respect for your fellow “teammates” (citizens) might help though.
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Ty
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 4:09 pm
Also, when a Democrat business owner says they’re “doing fine”, they really mean “I can’t tell you how well we are doing because it might make us look like the greedy SOBs we don’t feel like but continually accuse other people of being”, FYI.
You will probably be doing even better now, with all the job-creating splendor coming from Washington. Maybe I don’t understand it because I’m just a conservative rube, and I hope the president is right, that this health care mandate, 1099 reporting and other IRS compliance will somehow make you hire even more people, and fork over even more of your money to them to satisfy your social responsibility.
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George Guadiane
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 4:21 pm
Actually Ty, as you are not an investor, nor my IRS investigator, I don’t owe you ANYTHING, but – no, doing fine for me means I work a few hours a day to live a modest lifestyle, and so I can spend more time doing the fun stuff and annoying silly people like you – OK, that’s fun too.
I rent, “own” two cars one with a note, both over 5 years old, and go on one working vacation a year… You know, so I can morally, legally deduct the travel expenses.
20 years ago, when a store with my merchandise burned down, I got a loan from the Government, I was entitled, and took it… AND I paid it back. Other than that, I have never and probably will never get any help from the Government.
I will always be in compliance with the laws of our land and will always do the best that I can within that law to serve my own interest…
AND, I will still do what I can to support our economy and our citizens as a part of my personal economy.
I don’t shop at WalMart, too much stuff from China, Predatory practices all over the place, including hiring illegal aliens, “Right” wing entitlement agenda.
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Shiva (Moderator)
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 4:30 pm
You make silly assumptions. There are business’s that are booming right now. Very soon the quarterly corporate profits are going to be out and you are going to be knocked on your shorts when you see them.(within the next couple days). A great many companys are not hiring but are setting on large amounts of cash.
The 1099 reporting deal already has a bipartisan bill in to remove it. Remember that a great deal of the work in the revenue system is done by computer, not people. Dont buy into the Sarah Palin Im a red stain in Alaska inuendo.
Please do not use talking points that you cannot prove
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Ty
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 6:03 pm
“Very soon the quarterly corporate profits are going to be out and you are going to be knocked on your shorts when you see them.”
What is this, 2009? Corporate profits have been impressive for a while, where have you been? The Dow is back over 12000. They are sitting on their money because of the poison of “uncertainty” – thanks to schizophrenic signals on tax policy (1099, no 1099…what’s next?) and the health care bomb they have to wait 4 years to go off, they don’t want to be without a solid account when the music stops.
“Remember that a great deal of the work in the revenue system is done by computer, not people”
What exactly is the “revenue system”? If you meant the IRS, they were just on a hiring binge to enforce 1099 compliance after the HC bill passed, and something tells me when they knock on the door, a “computer” won’t be dealing with them, they’ll be all over your person like white on rice.
“Please do not use talking points that you cannot prove”
Likewise.
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Shiva (Moderator)
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 6:52 pm
1099 is being repealed. Its very rare the IRS would knock on your door. I referred to your buffonery about a Dem businessman not saying how good things may be.
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George Guadiane
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 7:47 pm
Ty,
They’re sitting on their big fat profits because there is actual risk out there now.
Back in the day, investing was a calculated RISK. You invested only “what you could afford to lose.”
Now, these cowards want CERTAINTY not creativity.
10% per annum profits used to be GOOD, now an expectation of an annual gain is for suckers.
“Investors think they should double every year (or better).
Corporate profits are up because they fired a lot of people and Government gave them tax breaks and bags of money.
Making BIG MONEY while working people are forced onto welfare so that their margins can widen is nothing to be proud of.
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The Dark Knight
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 2:26 pm
George, the kool-aid drinker who called in to Rush rattled off generalities like “why is he a hero when he raised taxes?” MY FACTS HAVE PROVED HIM WRONG!! As far as his other generalities like Lebanon, or dealing with terrorists, don’t even get me started on the difference of foreign policy matters when it comes to democrats & republicans. Under Carter, we lost Iran & now have to deal with the new “Hitler of Iran.” And under Obama, we will now lose Egypt & end up dealing with another terrorist government who will certainly tear up the Israel peace treaty & most probably end up starting world war 3. Under Reagan?? PEACE!! He brought Gorbachev to his knees & ended the cold war. DEAL WITH THAT.
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George Guadiane
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 3:34 pm
Saying it louder and more often doesn’t make it true. You have shown that facts are not relevant to your beliefs. And, in spite of those facts, you hold the man in reverence. These things make you a Reagan Religious follower not a political spokesperson.
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George Guadiane
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 3:39 pm
That “Kool-aid drinker” was using Limballs Logic to point out the ironies of “Right” wing adoration for Ronald Reagan. The fact that Rush sputtered over it only proves how effective that kind of attack can be.
Oh, and we lost Iran, at least in part because the Reagan crew made a deal with those people and provided them with weapons and unblocked their finances, completely thwarting President Carter’s intent to not negotiat or support terrorists/terrorism.
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The Dark Knight
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 3:57 pm
Again George, PLEASE check your facts…the Khomeini regime came into prominence in the mid-seventies, then the Shah was exiled in 1979….JIMMY CARTER was Prez when we lost Iran….it had NOTHING to do with Reagan!
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George Guadiane
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 4:23 pm
The country was in flux, and trying to get it’s footing, but true, it STARTED with President Carter.
And the other facts, about the Reagan team making a deal to hold the prisoners till after the election in exchange for guns? THAT didn’t happen?
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The Dark Knight
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 5:27 pm
Yes, George, it certainly did happen, and I know this because I vividly remember watching Reagan on national tv in 1987 admitting that he was fully responsible for the affair….I’ve always been a “centrist” independent & I was not happy that night…..still does not alter the fact that Reagan is worshipped by the conservatives because both his domestic & foreign policies spurred the greatest expansion in our history for nearly 15 years, carrying right through both the Bush Sr. AND Clinton administrations, and even causing the stock market to go from 1,000 to 10,000 in that time period.
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George Guadiane
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 7:34 pm
For you, in the end, it’s not what’s good for the whole population it’s about the stock market, what’s good for the wealthy and connected.
This “great expansion” you refer to came at the expense of our National SOUL. While the rich got magnificently richer, the middle class has all but vanished. The poor got poorer, health care costs shot up and were transferred from business to the individual… Coverage was modified and nullified by changing policies that elected not to cover preexisting conditions in favor of higher profit margins, because, after all, they’re not there to provide a product or service, they’re there to make as much money as they can.
But America is a better place because the stock market went up?
THAT is a sad indictment on the values of this society.
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The Dark Knight
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 9:37 pm
Geez, George, who made the rule that only the RICH can invest in stocks?? I bought my first stock when I was 18 years old & didn’t have a pot to piss in. I still consider myself only an average “middle class” citizen. Yes, George, even the middle class contains some conservatives. According to the last Gallup poll, over 60% of the population now owns stocks, yet only about the top 2 or 3% I would consider truly “wealthy.” I personally know many people who probably started with far, far less money than you probably have now, who have amassed quite a nest egg because of persistent, systematic investment programs. That’s why America is so great & that’s why I continue to be bullish. Sorry, but sheer laziness & wanting to live off the welfare system just doesn’t impress me.
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Sarah Jones
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 10:13 pm
Many middle class people of either party have a portfolio of some kind whether it’s through their pension fund or their own savings and while they may not be buying individual stocks they are investing in stocks through mutual funds, etc.
The fiscal conservative badge no longer applies to the GOP and it hasn’t for a long while. Today, you have John McCain taking money from social security and veterans benefits he has no need of– taking money out of the system for pure greed. Civic responsibility has been replaced with pure greed and social Darwinism. Compassion is gone. And then, they’ve been Enroning the budget — lowering taxes while spending more and leaving wars off the budget all together. They are total clowns when it comes to money. Not serious about responsibility one iota. Nothing irks me more than self righteous conservatives acting as if they are the fiscally responsible party when the truth is, they spit on fiscal conservatism every day. They never want to do the hard work and pay for anything. Talk about wanting their entitlements for free — hello, modern day GOP.
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George Guadiane
Feb. 9th, 2011 at 5:13 am
I only “invest” in my business. Having seen decades worth of ripoffs by “investment opportunities” over the years, including the likes of Bernie Madoff, I have no faith in nor respect for the people who make millions and billions but share thousands. I don’t need to contribute to their bottom line in order to have a life.
You know Ty, I’m bothered because you never responded to my assertion that you are a racist. In fact, you codify it with this: “America is so great & that’s why I continue to be bullish. Sorry, but sheer laziness & wanting to live off the welfare system just doesn’t impress me.”
America IS great, but not just because you can do honest work and get ahead (if someone doesn’t come along and steal your idea or undercut your price to try and run you out of business or, or, or, or…). America is great when we show respect for ALL OF HER CITIZENS, not just those with opportunity and means. I know, you could try and make the case the “everyone has opportunity,” but first hand experience proves otherwise to me.
People like you who
a) presume that everyone/ANYone who is “on welfare” is lazy and/or that they WANT to live like that and
b) repeat it as the truth without any real personal knowledge about the circumstances of the people they insult, demean and lie about,
are a special kind of ignorant. Not just uninformed or unaware, but indifferent. to anything or anyone they (you) do not know or understand.
My father died after a stay in the hospital of a now curable Hodgkin’s cancer when I was six years old. There was no insurance. I was told then that I was “the man of the house.” This was, as it turned out fairly factual, and totally unreasonable for a child, but, there you are.
My mother had no resources and till my father died was a stay at home mother with three SMALL children (I was the oldest).
My father had been Catholic and managed to get us into Catholic school, my mother was Lutheran. In addition to dealing with my father’s death, I got to change schools because the church would no longer support our schooling because my mother would not convert.
Our lives went on in a downward spiral for some time. She finally got help from Government agencies, got a little education and a secratarial job which she kept till we moved to Florida so that we could share a home with my Grandparents… Boy was that a “good time for me.”
I was 19 when my mother sent the last payment to the Hospital for the bills incurred by my father’s illness.
I’m not asking you to feel sorry for me, or people who, like me have had hardship beyond your comprehension or concern, I’m asking you to have respect for us, all of us.
You can’t call this “the land of opportunity” and/or claim that “we all have a chance to succeed” and think of any of us as less worthy of your respect. You can’t call people that you don’t know “lazy” nor presume that they “want” to be on welfare and then pretend you have respect for the system that may have saved them.
In Iowa, my best friend was a black kid we went to school and Cub Scouts together his uncle was our troop leader – I know now that he was black because when I moved to Florida, I didn’t see another black kid till I was in the 9th grade, and I only recognized that, then, because everyone else made such a fuss about those “N”
In the end, your ignorance brings you shame. You can look down your nose at others, but you can’t take their pride. You can’t make them what you call them. You can’t use the thoughts and ideas of the Rush Limbaugh’s of the world and have any REAL respect, self or other. If your life is only about money and your “superiority,” you are a shallow hollow being, lacking in understanding or humanity, no mater how great you say you are or think you are compared to others.
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George Guadiane
Feb. 9th, 2011 at 5:19 am
Dark:
I got you mixed up with Ty, my apologies for that.
Take whatever applies and leave the rest.
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michelle Amieux
Feb. 9th, 2011 at 8:04 pm
Some people are so unhappy in their lives that it doesn’t matter what the subject is, they will be combative. Fascism’s definition is “A reactionary movement by the Middle Class in an endangered economy.” That is what America is experiencing right now…a tide of Fascism with people like Fox, Rush, Palin and Beck leading the pack. They hate the rich, they hate the poor, hell they hate anyone who ain’t like them. Well the first act of W. Bush was to deregulate banks and legalize derivatives. This two headed monster all but eliminated the Middle Class in ten short years. Those of you who voted for Bush have no one to blame but yourselves that your houses and savings were stolen by the “Ruling Class”. The 1%’s. Without the Middle Class to create an illusion of the potential of upward mobility, people are starting to realize we are more and more the third world country, with two classes, a rich, with the army defending their grotesque wealth, and the poor, who will become like animals in their struggle to survive. Yes Fascism is upon us in America, and all minorities, including women, need to fight for the upholding of our Constitution. The Supreme Court still has the precedent that it can incarcerate a whole race of people in war time. This was decided in Fred Korematsu vs. The United States, 1943, when they incarcerated over 100,000 Japanese as enemies, though not one case of treason was ever found. Fred Korematsu lost, and they stayed in horse stables till the atomic bomb. When they went home their land and possessions were stolen. For the record, the Supreme Court can do that again, the precedent is already in place. The sinking Middle Class is being led down the path of Fascism by Fox and Crew, inciting violence, it’s starting again.
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mark
Feb. 27th, 2011 at 1:20 am
The conservative movement are all lies. Fox news, Russ, republicans.
Russ is on crack
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