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John Hagee Says Hate is the Only Way to Save America
more from Hrafnkell Haraldsson
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John Hagee Says Hate is the Only Way to Save America was written by Hrafnkell Haraldsson for PoliticusUSA.
© PoliticusUSA, Sep. 19th, 2011. All Rights Reserved
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143 Responses to John Hagee Says Hate is the Only Way to Save America
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JEB
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 8:05 am
You betcha!! HATE, HATE, HATE! ! ! That’s what Jesus taught his followers and Hagee et al are just following their master . . . NOT. Scumbag religionists!
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Shelley
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 1:18 pm
No, the Old Testament teaches hate and intolerance. Jesus espoused love, forgiveness and exceptance. If everyone in the world – including all the Christians in the world would follow Jesus’ example we would have a much nicer, beautiful tolerant world. By the way, I’m not affiliated with any religion, I just love Jesus’ message and use him as my guide to live my live.
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Hrafnkell Haraldsson
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 1:36 pm
Jesus is guilty of some intolerance himself – his references to gentiles, for example, as swines and dogs. Very typical of Judaism and marking him as a man of his times. And whatever else Jesus says, the New Testament is filled with intolerance of the Other – the Gospels themselves are anti-Semitic. I like to refer people to Gerd Lüdemann’s “Intolerance And the Gospel: Selected Texts from the New Testament” (2006).
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Shelley
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 1:43 pm
Well, as we know, the New Testament wasn’t written by Jesus himself, so anyone of the aspostles could have written in his own predudices. However, I still like the Essenic (spelling?) message.
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Blasphemer
Sep. 20th, 2011 at 4:49 pm
Jesus is a fictional character. He was an invention of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Outside of the Bible, which is mostly fiction, there is zero historical evidence of the existence of this so-called Jesus Christ.
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Shiva (Moderator)
Sep. 20th, 2011 at 5:06 pm
the problem with the four Gospels is they were written around 60 to 80 years after the profits lived.
There are tons and tons of theories about the beginning of the religion of Judaism, with many thinking that it is a Egyptian construct and just about any other construct you can think of. In any case Judaism at one time had many gods and not just one
The theory I ascribe to the most about Jesus is that he, like Judas Iscariot was a revolutionary and trying to get rid of Roman rule. At this point I could note that the name Iscariot was not a person’s family name, but it was a name of a group which had a certain type of knife as its logo and it was a revolutionary underground group trying to rid themselves of the Romans. I think that’s why the Jews and the Romans killed him, he was ruining the power that the Jews in the Temple had and pissing off the Romans
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Bear
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 10:13 pm
I grew up in an abusive household that taught that the abuse I was subjected to was the “will of God”. I am no longer of the Christian faith. As such, I truly despise being put in a position of defending that faith. I just did a word search of the Bible, or more specifically Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, where the teachings of Jesus reside. He never referred to anyone as dog or swine. As your claim to Jesus’ swine/dog reference, the Gospels are anything but anti-Semitic. He spoke up against abuse of the system, and tried to show people that faith is more than just a set of empty rules. Try referring to the actual text, instead of someone else’s version of what is in there. Also, if you wish to talk Jesus, read what the followers that were actually there said he said. (Paul’s teachings often go against the message of Jesus). Unfortunately, you just placed yourself in the same status as Hagee – one who holds their prior notion above what was actually said.
To sum up, I leave you with the words of a well known man – Ghandi:
I like your Christ.
I do not like your Christians.
They are so unlike your Christ.
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Ruth Fichter
Sep. 20th, 2011 at 2:28 pm
A beautiful defense and correct. Thank you. The “Christianity” of this Hagee person bears NO resemblance to mine and that of my friends. In fact, it’s his type that have driven away all too many from true Chrsitian practice. For instance, not one of the GOP candidates running for president seem to have a clue about Jesus’ actual message.
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deezee
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 5:09 pm
You obviously have not read the Old Testament…
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Matt
Sep. 20th, 2011 at 6:44 am
Jesus taught Judaism. Clearly you’re unfamiliar with the Old Testament. I agree with everything else you said, though. If more people lived the way Jesus lived, rather than trying their hardest to spread the word and get it everywhere, we’d all be better off.
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Donna
Sep. 20th, 2011 at 4:50 pm
The message of Jesus Christ is love. Anyone who is not for Christ is against Christ. Anyone against Christ is considered the Anti-Christ. There will be more than one. Are you the Anti CHrist? Some people are hurt and confused by the way Christians react towartds them. Ask Jesus to come into your heart. Keep your eye on Jesus…not people or things. God Bless you.
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Kate
Sep. 20th, 2011 at 5:09 pm
Hagee, Phelps,and Robertson are the Anti-Christ?
*blink*
That…actually explains a lot. Including the smell of sulfur hanging around them.
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JEB
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 8:11 am
Had to come back and state the Hagee worships faithfully, day in and day out, Sunday after Sunday, at the feet of his god and behold the name of his god is BEELZEBUB!!!
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Mason Colbert
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 8:02 pm
Christians (if I may call him such) like this guy are frustrated authoritarians. Control of others is their life’s work. The tragedy that he talks about is simply his perceived loss of power in today’s ‘connected’ and educated world. The latest survey that deals with religion and societies reaction to it stated that prior to the Reagan ‘moral majority’ of the early 1980′s, the U.S. had a total of 3 percent of the population that were atheist and or people that wanted nothing to do with religion. That number, roughly 30 years later, is now at 20 percent. They are losing power every year that passes and I would say to this………….Thank God!
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Ann Hatzakis
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 8:36 pm
Actually Mason, the percentage of people who are either atheist or want nothing to do with religion is less than you state. Yes, the estimated percentage of the population of the US who self-identify as “Christian” is only 80.2%, but your number ignores religious non-Christians.
As a RELIGIOUS Non-Christian, I loathe Hagee’s statements that blame his perceived societal woes on ‘Paganism’. Because, if the Pagans REALLY had the power Hagee said we do, we probably would NOT have as many of the population with food or housing insecurity as we do now.
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Shiva (Moderator)
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 8:33 am
I noticed that he is not offering any alternatives or what he expects to do about all this bad stuff.
I agree with him on one count, the television is pretty much brain-dead. I my CNN news alert e-mails I got notice of who won the Emmys last night, I was proud to say I had never watched any of the shows. Not a single episode.
A couple other things he says is true such as in places kids getting an abortion without their parents knowledge and in other places not being able to get an aspirin without their parents consent. But I really don’t know what that has to do with God. those are man’s laws pure and simple
I wish that everyone was free to say Merry Christmas and free to display their own religious holidays. Even an atheist such as myself can get caught up in the Christmas spirit and I have no problem telling people Merry Christmas. and as far as I’m concerned Heather can have two mommies or two daddies. It’s not up to me to tell them that they can’t marry.
Religious people are so easily taken in by this type of person, until they get into power. then it is pure regret. it is most certainly true that Christians commit far more crimes than atheists. And why not Western part all I have to do is say a prayer and they are forgiven. Go forth and sin again
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Kate
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 11:41 am
Agreed on the counts of underage abortion versus non-prescription medication. It’s kinda absurd. I couldn’t get a single Tylenol from the school nurse without my mother signing off on it, but some little junior high girl could get an abortion and no one would be any the wiser? There’s something wrong with that! The parents pay the medical bills, the parents sign off on health decisions for a child, they should probably be informed that their child is getting a medical procedure done that involves taking something out of the uterus.
I’d sure want to know, so I could keep my daughter away from the fool she decided to lay down with and make a baby with (and you bet his mother would be hearing about it too)! And if it was rape, I DAMN sure want to know, so I can go all Momma Bear and put that guy behind bars.
But where God comes into that, I have not a clue. Sounds more like the typical micromanaging and lack of logic inherent in humanity. God don’t got nothin’ to do with basic human stupidity.
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Melvin
Sep. 20th, 2011 at 4:37 am
If one studies the studies, though, one will realize that most of these teenage pregnancies under 16 are caused by relatives or mother’s boyfriend or close, trusted family friend…I believe over 60%, which is why the laws of anonymity have been created…because the girl CAN’T tell her family…not even date rape, but, far too often Daddy or StepDaddy
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Kate
Sep. 20th, 2011 at 10:49 am
See, I have mixed feelings on those laws. As a healthcare professional, I am legally obligated to report ANY abuse I find or that has been reported to me.
On the one hand, protecting the privacy and dignity (and upholding the safety and welfare) of the victim is of utmost importance. Protect her from possible retaliation from the abuser, provide counseling, and provide medical care that will get her back to health.
But of equal importance is getting the offender out of society and into a prison cell where he belongs. If the family buries their heads in the sand, someone else needs to step forward and make sure that that offender doesn’t continue his behavior. And that’s where mandated reporters such as myself come in. And there’s only so long before the police and CPS step in and start the investigation…and then the family WILL know, because it’s pretty hard to ignore a police officer standing in your living room.
Having everything done all hush-hush like may only encourage the child to keep silent…and there goes her mother, oblivious of the kind of man she’s let into her home, and he’s off to do it again. There has to be a line drawn somewhere…there has to be a balance between protecting the rights and safety of the patient, and seeing justice done.
And if I’d married a man who was going after my daughter…I’d want to know so I could go find a nice sharp kitchen knife to chop off the offending part of his body, and then sign the divorce decree with it.
(And as for the reason for teen pregnancies themselves…Ohio and Indiana must be the exceptions to those studies. My mother had me with some high school boy when she was in 8th grade, it was practically tradition for at least two girls to get pregnant as soon as they got into their freshman year at my high school, and I see so many young teen mothers shopping for prom dresses while burping a baby and talking about how “oh my GAWD so he won’t come take care of her because he’s out with his NEW girlfriend and he’s taking HER to the prom” that it doesn’t even shock me any more. Kids got nothing better to do out here, I guess.)
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Girl interrupted
Sep. 21st, 2011 at 2:25 am
The point is, my dear, it is sick and wrong to make a girl ask her rapist for an abortion. That is the priority before the court case, which can take years.
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Kate
Sep. 21st, 2011 at 10:05 am
I never meant that the offending parent should have a say in her medical care.
I do think that any other parent, guardian, or family member uninvolved in the crime should be notified, so they can take appropriate action to keep the offender away from the rest of society while going forward with legal proceedings (because all too often, I’ve seen that sort of man make bail and go back to his family (and victim)..all it takes is one good old boy judge, I’ve seen it happen). The sooner steps are taken, the sooner the court case CAN go forward.
As a victim of various types of abuse myself, I know how tempting keeping silent is. Hiding what happened, just letting the whole thing “go away”, taking care of the aftermath in secret. Even lying when asked what exactly happened to my arm.
If even one person had told my godmother (the next legal guardian beside my parents who were part of the problem) “this is what’s happening to your goddaughter”, I could have gotten out of an ugly situation much sooner than I did.
I’m not at all saying “involve the rapist”. I’m saying “get other people aware of what he’s done, so they can take appropriate action, should initial legal proceedings not go forward or go forward in a way that would put the victim or others in danger”. Don’t wait for the cops to show up a month later and only then realize what’s been going on. I think there’s a lot more that could be done to protect the victim (and potential victims) outside of the legal proceedings.
I suppose I have a rather unique perspective on the issue…I’ve not only been the one terrified out of my mind to the point of just making it all go away, but now I’m the one watching young people cave under the psychological pressure and trauma of abuse and a potential investigation.
I’m the sort who wants to shout it from the rooftops that “this man is disgusting, this man does horrible things, anyone in contact with him: this is what he does, you should get his worthless ass out of your homes RIGHT NOW”. If he gets away scott-free at the trial, he still won’t find a welcome anywhere, because everyone knows what he did, even those not necessarily involved in the proceedings.
BECAUSE the court case can take years, I think there are steps that should be taken, including notifying those close to the offender with at-risk individuals (his wife, any other children, etc) so that they can make themselves safe just a little bit sooner, and so that there is a system in place if the courts fail to do their duty.
Maybe I’m just idealistic, but I think a lot more could be done when it comes to prosecuting a criminal such as a rapist, and a lot more could be done when it comes to getting the victim a healthy support system.
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Ray Sager
Sep. 20th, 2011 at 12:36 pm
I disagree with Hagee’s statement that people are not free to say Merry Christmas. No one is telling Christians that they cannot say Merry Christmas or celebrate Christmas as a Christian holiday. This is a straw man argument that sets Christians up as being “victims” and everyone else as “the bogey men”. It’s a known characteristic that is referred to in psychological circles as The Rhetoric of Victimization. It’s an US vs THEM scenario: “We, as Christians are having our rights and beliefs subjugated by those who we feel are UNHOLY: Gays,Liberal Media,Hollywood,Elitists, Democrats…etc. We, as Christians, are VICTIMS…our right to control the destinies of our children and our families are being subjugated by Pagans,Homosexuals, Socialists. They are the reason our country is without MORALS.” We need a bogey man to blame for our problems and the name of the bogey man is Socialism.
Adolph Hitler employed the same tactic after World War I. Germany fell, it’s Navy scuttled and all the lands that Germany acquired during that time were divided up or given back to their respective nations. Germany’s economy tanked big time…food lines formed, unemployment was at an all time high, someone had to be blamed for this crisis and Adolph found the perfect target: JEWS. If you examine the rhetoric of Hitler and compare it to the rhetoric of John Hagee…it’s almost frightening!
In America, we are fighting two wars: Iraq and Afghanistan. We’ve already drawn down on Iraq leaving just a minuscule force intact. However, we are still fighting in Afghanistan even though we are slowly drawing down. Unemployment is at 9.5% and steadily growing with 4.7 million people without jobs.Most of our jobs have been outsourced overseas to China due to tax loopholes that allow major industries to sell our jobs out for the sake of the bottom line. Every night, on the news, we see people lined up for miles at job fairs looking to get their foot in the door. Some applicants are having to re-define their job skills because the companies they worked for cut them loose after so many years of loyal service to them. Couples and families are losing their homes due to not being able to keep up with their mortgages. If you look on any street in ANYWHERE USA you’ll find foreclosures left and right; people who can’t keep up having to do “walkouts” on the very homes they spent their lives in. Tent cities are popping up in areas where jobs are available…just not to them. And what’s top say what our veterans will look forward to when they come home from fighting? Is this the America they fought so hard to defend?
Do the math! Germany, post World War I…United States post Iraq-Afghanistan War…Germany had Adolph Hitler to rouse his country to World War II and the extermination of thousands of Jews. The United States of America has John Hagee to throw blame at those who do not bow and worship the God he worships…and people are listening and waiting with bated breath for the New Theocracy to begin just like Adolph Hitler and the New Weimer Republic.
It doesn’t take a genius to map out the destiny and fate of our nation. Am I being paranoid…NO. As is the fate of other nations, so goes ours. We live in dangerous times and fear and manipulation of facts and figures goes a long way for Dominionists to assure their place in our nations destiny.
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Kate
Sep. 21st, 2011 at 10:13 am
Hagee probably got his statement from new employee rules in many businesses that require an employee to wish a client “Happy Holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas”. You don’t know what religion or culture the client is from, so you offer them a generic and take whatever reply (generic or holiday-specific) they offer back with a nice big smile. If you are offered a holiday specific salutation, you are free to respond in kind.
It makes all the customers happy, keeps your ass covered so no customer takes offense (though I did get one old biddy once who was DETERMINED to take offense because she celebrated no mid-winter holidays whatsoever), and if the customer gets to the salutation first or gives you the specific holiday they celebrate, well then God bless ya, you can wish ‘em a “Merry Christmas” if they tell you so.
And there’s really no problem with that, because when you’re on the clock, you are company property. It’s perfectly within their rights to dictate on-the-job employee behavior. Wish a Merry Christmas to whoever you will out on the streets,but if the people giving you a paycheck tell you to behave a certain way, then you behave a certain way.
I can see how he (being a crazy loon) would twist that into “Christians can’t tell people Merry Christmas”. There’s a certain amount of “I want to act how I want to act, so screw you all, I don’t have to obey any of your rules” thinking that goes along with his behavior. Seems to me like he’s just throwing another tantrum.
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Reynardine
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 8:49 am
I’d say, since it hasn’t been addressed here, that if a little girl isn’t competent to decide not to have a child, she probably isn’t competent to have one, either. Nor does anyone have a proprietary interest in a future grandchild. And I have the feeling that the real reason Hagee is incensed at the battered wives’ shelters and rape crisis centers is that he thinks all these uppity victims shouldn’t be using them. They should be back home, meekly taking whatever is dished out to them, including punishment for having been raped.
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hoosiermama4749
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 10:42 am
How dare anyone offer options!
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A Walkaway
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 11:12 am
Ah, but another reason for opposition to abused shelters and rape crisis centers and women’s health clinics – if they help women to get abortions, then they can “hide their sin” from view.
Gotta make sure that women are punished for being human after all (or for not being perfect), as well as not meekly submitting to the men.
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Reynardine
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 11:26 am
Why, yes, and if a girl is raped, then her status as “damaged goods” must be made public, so no God-fearing man is fooled into marrying her.
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Kim
Sep. 20th, 2011 at 12:42 am
Everyone should be paying attention- these awful people represent what the majority of Republican politicians stand for now. They do not want freedom for anyone but the rich. They don’t want abuse shelters because I suspect many of them are abusers, and they resent the intrusion into their “authority”.
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Mary Workman
Sep. 20th, 2011 at 11:20 pm
Thank you . I am so glad someone agrees with me I can’t see straight.Sure would like to know all their dirty secrets. How many of them cheat,take drugs,lie,steal,rape,so on & so. Can’t stand or trust any repug. It’s all ME,ME,ME,ME & the HELL with everyone else.
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neil
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 9:05 am
Well I’ll just have to lump him with Limbaugh,Beck,Hannity,palin and all the rest of the rwnjs that don’t have one iota of sense about what they are talking about.It’s like these idiots are born without any self awareness.
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Ahab
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 9:39 am
(My first comment didn’t take. Attempt #2.)
I’m amazed at how many Christian fundamentalists blame paganism for every institution they disagree with. (“RESISTING THE GREEN DRAGON” comes to mind.). Have any of these fundamentalists taken the time to read about neo-paganism, or ever talked to any neo-pagans? Their ignorance about paganism is startling.
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Hrafnkell Haraldsson
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 9:48 am
What they don’t understand is that even in the Roman Empire, before the fundamentalists took charge, Christians and Pagans were living peacefully side by side. It can be done; we can certainly do it here. It just takes one bad word: tolerance.
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A Walkaway
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 12:01 pm
I’ve been thinking about your comment for a while, and had this thought.
When Christianity was the oppressed religion, it was largely because the Christians wouldn’t sacrifice to Caesar… which was considered a rejection of Rome and at the very least unpatriotic. They were defying Empire, and thus suffered persecution.
Then Christianity became the religion of Rome – of Empire. Many people have said “The shoe was on the other foot”, but when you realize that the Roman authorities were demanding that people convert to Christianity, it was the same thing as happened before. Conversion = support for the new status quo.
Refusal to convert meant rejecting Rome and Empire. It was resistance, and resistance was not to be tolerated. Thus, the persecution of pagans.
The commonality was Empire, and mixing religion and politics. In both cases, the government stirred up the general population against the perceived “Other”.
Even today in very conservative Islamic countries, the Christians and Muslims got along quite well, until they were stirred up by the government or by militants (fundamentalists). I think we can argue that is a commonality throughout history.
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Hrafnkell Haraldsson
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 12:16 pm
Except that from the Roman perspective, it was political, not religious. Rome didn’t care what religion people followed – they only wanted loyalty and stability in the provinces. Until the third century, there was not one single persecution of Christianity. As Thomas Jefferson said, “Had not the Roman government permitted free enquiry Christianity could never have been introduced.” The fundamentalist Christians aren’t being as tolerant as the Pagan Romans.
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MDWalker
Sep. 20th, 2011 at 10:45 pm
You claim that there was no persecution of Christianity until the 3rd century. May I ask, who was it that imprisoned and bead-headed the apostle Paul. If I remember my history correctly, it was the Roman government. Rome was some what tolerant, depending on who was in power. Christianity suffered on again and off again persecution until it was made the official state religion in 380 AD.
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maxine
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 12:37 pm
“When Christianity was the oppressed religion, it was largely because the Christians wouldn’t sacrifice to Caesar… which was considered a rejection of Rome and at the very least unpatriotic. They were defying Empire, and thus suffered persecution.”
It wasn’t just the Christians being oppressed, any more than the Holocaust was limited to Jewish ancestry. They just had a better PR machine in the Church.
Tiberius, Caligula and family were off the deep end, and constant foreign wars in search of resources drained the public coffers. (Sound familiar?)Religion didn’t become a big deal until these looney tunes expected people to believe they deserved to be worshiped with tax payer dollars.
Remember “Render unto Caesar..?”
Jesus wasn’t any Libertarian or Tea Bagger. Taxes paid for operating and maintaining the public baths, markets and police. Those social services kept the widows and poor from total debasement.
Privatization under the Christian Byzantine Empire can be cited as a cause for the Dark Ages in Europe. Remember, in a world where mass communication was restricted , hierarchy is rigid. Sacred words and interpreters.
The revival of visual communication in the mid 19th, early 20th century marks the end of the linear thinking as a cultural pattern. Internet has destroyed the ability of a select few to interpret revealed wisdom to the great unwashed.
Hagee is part of the vestigial past attempting to control the future.
The future looks great from this old woman’s POV.
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FreeRangeRadical
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 9:57 am
Pumpkinhead says what? ** Hagee is a hater, and that’s not news. The real news is that everyone who looks like him – Newt the Gingrich, Donald Rumsfeld, et al – acts like him. You only get to look like that after a life filled with hate. So why is he so mad? Because he looks like that…silly wabbit!
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trekie70
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 10:19 am
It’s people like Hagee that are ruining America, not Harry Potter. Unfortunately he and the rest of the kooky evangelical crowd have plenty of uneducated sheep that are willing to follow him and be indoctrinated without a second thought.
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Reynardine
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 11:00 am
A hundred years back, they were treating the Oz books the same way they treat Harry Potter now.
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SinghX
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 11:57 am
SHhhhhhh…don’t bring up the Baum Family! Talk about a gaggle of feminist…sin, I tell ya’ a family free-thinking sinners!
If Hagee finds out, the next thing you know the “Wizard of Oz” will go on the list with Potter and become a banned movie!
Oh lardie, lardie don’t bring up Frank Baum whatever you do or heads will explode!
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boil
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 11:21 am
like the conquistadors arriving in what is now s.america, ‘take christ as your savior, or die. right now”…. these are the same good xtian folk who out of the kindness of their heart, sent the Indians blankets impregnated with smallpox, after all to the euros, they were heathens and didnt deserve to live….. the spanish inquisition, please add to the list, its huge….
history repeats it self
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Kate
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 11:32 am
It’s John Hagee. I expected nothing different. It’d be like asking Fred Phelps to accept that he’s a crazy loon whose deep-seated hatred for everyone and anyone stems from severe drug use and psychiatric problems.
Old news is, unfortunately, old. And we can keep him and people like him out of office by a collective effort…but outside of that, all we can do is wait for the crazy old coot to go belly-up and breathe his last. You just plain can’t fix stupid.
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church101
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 12:10 pm
Doesn’t really matter what anyone says about Christians, but one thing for sure…that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
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Hrafnkell Haraldsson
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 12:27 pm
You know, it doesn’t bother me if people think that way. It does bother me a great deal if they think they have the right to make everybody else think that way. For my part, I have pledged troth to my gods and so it will remain. Jesus is a desert god and not my own.
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Kate
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 1:19 pm
And your point is….?
We were given free agency to freely choose whether to follow Christ (or not to). Ain’t no skin off my nose if someone wants to follow Zeus instead: that decision is between them, God, and whatever other gods are out there.
Save your proselytizing for when you’re not on a political website.
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mikelist
Sep. 20th, 2011 at 5:01 pm
do you know the difference between proselytizing and expressing one’s views? didn’t think so. that’s why christian missionaries go to afghanistan, but muslim missionaries are not welcome here. i believe there is a creator god who does his will, regardless of entreaties or blessings, and doesn’t take input from those he created. okay, to be fair, ‘he’ isn’t the proper reference, gender is for lesser beings bestowed with reproductive organs of a certain type, and it’s obvious he doesn’t need an erection to create life. ‘she’ and ‘it’ don’t suit, either, although from a biological standpoint, ‘she’ isn’t wrong by much.
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Kate
Sep. 20th, 2011 at 5:14 pm
…And what does that have to do with the price of peas in Pakistan?
Religious views =/= politics. Nor should they ever be equated with each other.
If you’re going to come to a political website and start going on about your faith, I humbly suggest you look elsewhere for the correct venue in which to express yourself…because going on about your faith in the incorrect venue seems to indeed have a strong undercurrent of conversion tactics. Quoting scripture and debating the finer points of theology should be left to theological websites, not political ones.
Seriously, I fail to see your point. But whatever.
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Morgan Zee
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 3:51 pm
No.
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God_is_with_Us
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 5:26 pm
It’s obvious that alot of people commenting have a bad taste in their mouth for Christians. I agree that there are way too many hypocrites that call themselves Christians. There are evil people that do bad things in the name of Christ but they are only serving their own goals and desires not God’s. There are lukeworm Christians that are basically only Christians for one hour a week on Sunday and just be their regular self the rest of the week. All of these comments are making a huge assumption that the people has done these things in the past truly are Christians. Also where does it say that all Christians are perfect? There has only been one perfect person to ever walk the earth.
You are all criticizing these “judgmental Christians” when you are in fact judging your own mothers, fathers, family and friends… We are all humans trying to make it and none of us is better than the other. Jesus preached love, plain and simple. Everything else you are saying are excuses. You can always find something that a person did that you don’t agree with but we all make mistakes. Some bigger than others.
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Kate
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 7:16 pm
Yes, everyone makes mistakes.
But when those mistakes start making other people suffer, it is our duty as not only Christians but as decent human beings to stand up and demand justice be done. It will NEVER be right to stand idly by while others suffer. We must always speak out (and act, if it is appropriate) when we see suffering in this world. We must be the change we wish to see.
Jesus also preached social justice, and change for the better. And when He saw the money-changers in the temple, He drove them out. He wasn’t just about talking the talk, He was about walking the walk.
“First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.”
Better start speaking up, lest we be next. I hardly think the likes of Hagee will distinguish if they get into a position of power. Be damned if we’re also Christian…if we disagree with their policies, they’ll have us silenced.
And damn straight I’ll judge my father, he abused me for 19 years. Damn straight I’ll judge my mother, she stood by and did nothing. Family, friends, or acquaintances, I don’t pull my punches just because the person I fight against has a face I recognize. I love them as Christ loves them, I forgive them as Christ forgives…but that doesn’t mean I have to tolerate their actions.
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A Walkaway
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 8:19 pm
“All make mistakes”???
Was it a mistake when the Assemblies of God deliberately blocked me from getting a decent job because of false rumors… while preaching at me that if I had enough faith and got close enough to God, I would get a decent job?
One of the people involved in that “mistake” learned a few years later that the rumors were false, and apologized (that’s how I learned of the official church interfering and preventing decent employment – and I was informed of two different jobs where I was going to be hired but because of their interference was denied)… but even if I HAD been gay, blocking me from getting a decent job was flat-out wrong, if not EVIL.
What about their attempts to break up our marriage? We caught them in the attempt.
What about the threats to elderly family members because of things I’d written?
What about them torching my workshop – for the same reason?
Poisoning our innocent kitties?
Racist hate graffiti in front of our driveway?
Yeah, mistakes… RIGHT!!!
(I might add that I didn’t experience forgiveness for MISTAKES – only demands that I be punished so I’d “learn a lesson”, until I LEFT the churches at middle age.) All of the “Good Christians” were hell-bent on punishment for even the slightest mistake, yet if they did something deliberate and got caught: “I’m a Christian and God has forgiven me, so YOU have to forgive me!!!”
No, it’s not mistakes.
It’s a theology that gives free reign to their most evil impulses, rather than encouraging them to work on themselves and let others find their own paths and grow at their own pace. (Why does it seem that the more fundamentalist/”Good Christian” a preacher is, the more likely that preacher will be a pedophile, a rapist, or condone rape???)
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akrnc
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 9:17 pm
It’s not written that Christians are perfect and nobody expects them to be, at least nobody I know personally. However, the true Christian people I know have no need to profess to anyone that they are “Christian” because it is visible in their daily actions, the manner in which they treat others. The people who are on TV proclaiming that they are Christian, loudly and forcefully, and telling everyone else they are going to hell if they don’t do as they do are far from Christian. They are the ones who speak of the sins of others but fail to realize they are without sin themselves. They are your RWNJ’s who want to proclaim that the President is not Christian. Why? Because they don’t like his name, despite the fact that he didn’t choose it himself, or they don’t like the color of his skin or they don’t think he acts Christian. Yet, Bush who they widely accepted as a Christian didn’t care enough about those without health insurance to do anything for them and neither did Congress at the time. Into the White House enters the man with the unique name and darker skin than previous residents who also wants to see everyone with health insurance. How dare he? How dare he want to take care of everyone who has gone without? Yet, isn’t that what a Christian would do? Their hypocrisy is overwhelming and gets worse daily.
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Angie Petrovic
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 12:10 pm
This man is a fear monger and is as dangerous as Hitler himself! My God is a forgiving God and I will certainly pray that this man has a visit from my God and that he “Sees the Light.”
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TheWholeTruth
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 12:25 pm
While I am certainly not a Hagee fan by any means, this article just brings to light how one line of hatred exposing another still equals…HATRED. I see people every day who claim to be Christians, yet do not follow Christ but secular beliefs. I see atheists who rail at the things of God but call on His name when there is a life or death situation. I see ‘pagans’ who worship all kinds of idols, including the cross; secular humanists who denounce things of a spiritual nature but call themselves ‘spiritual’; those who call themselves skepticists both in and out of ‘religious’ circles. The truth is you cannot peg the fall of any society on any one ‘religion’ – religion, unfortunately, relys on people and people are inherently flawed. The truth is, in recognizing ones own flaws, one can stop judging others against their own entitled sense of morality. Heres hoping there’s one less judge, jury, and executioner added to the fray today.
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David
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 8:58 pm
Sorry, but exposing another’s hatred with strong words is not “hatred”. It is exposing another’s hatred with strong words.
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maxine
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 12:58 pm
Genesis 9:10
“My covenant is with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl,of the cattle,of every beast of the world with you.
Genesis 9:15
And I will remember my covenant “Which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh…”
Me
So, get over yourself.
I recommend Gus DiZerga’s “Pagans & Christians: The Personal Spiritual Experience.”
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Susan
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 1:06 pm
Hate works well for fascists in the near term. Look at Germany in the 1930′s
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Brown cow
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 1:07 pm
Hate always sells and unfortunately when Hagee dies, he will replaced by another. The Christian hate machine is a many-headed snake. Thanks Hraff, for once again, putting my thoughts into words. I always read your pieces first because they always seem to get my thoughts in order about what I feel and how to express them. I quote you verbally every time a discussion of this type comes up.
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It is all hearsay...
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 1:41 pm
Religious organizations are nothing but sophisticated ways of hating others who don’t belong to your organization, to your herd, to your crowd.
They have crippled everybody, poisoned everybody; their destruction is uncountable.
What divides all the religions? Just small details, meaningless details, about their idea of God.
But if there is no God, all those differences disappear.
There are over three hundred religions in the world and all are fighting with each other.
These are all created because of the concept of God, because they have all invented their own concepts.
All God-oriented religions are simply fiction.
There exists no evidence for any God, and no theologian in the whole of history has been able to give a single proof for the existence of God.
But Fanatics are just blind people.
A fanatic will not see the truth; he will try to continue his belief in a lie, will make all kinds of excuses.
Fanatics don’t understand logic, don’t understand argument.
Remember religions teach faith because they cannot help you to find the truth.
They themselves don’t know where truth is.
The end result of believing, of having faith in a truth that you have not realized yourself.
It is hearsay.
Osho – The God Conspiracy.
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Kate
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 2:26 pm
Not ALL religions fight with each other (at least not in any way besides blathering on about semantics). The Sikhs and Buddhists seem to be doing pretty well. So does modern Hinduism and Anglican Christianity. And then there’s all the neo-pagan and nature-based religions, and the ancient religions making a comeback. And a good majority of the ones mentioned focus on helping and loving your fellow man, and adhering to basic rules of common sense and courtesy. It’s considered inhospitable and even blasphemy for the rules of decency to be ignored…especially for the Sikhs. Then there’s the Anglicans, who spend most of our time arguing the nature of the Trinity over glasses of fine port. And there’s the Wiccans and pagans with their “an harm ye none” rule, backed up by the “what ye do returns threefold” rule.
And as for truth…the decent, well-thought-out religions encourage the search for truth, both personal and transcending universal truth. The Anglican’s have their “three-legged stool”, the New Age religions have their “All is One”, the meditative paths have their “path to enlightenment”. None of them would dare tell anyone else what truth is, because truth is an ongoing journey, not a single idea.
Most of the actual harmful bickering, squabbling, and outright fighting is coming from the radical branches of Christianity and Islam (and if you look back in history, even Shinto had its dark days with ruler-worship in Japan). The non-radical branches, and most other world religions, seem to be doing fairly well for themselves, and for everyone else.
Try to watch the amount of generalizations you’re making. You’ll get more people to listen to you if you don’t immediately dismiss everything that doesn’t fit your personal worldview.
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A Walkaway
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 8:46 pm
Don’t forget the Unitarian Universalists.
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Kate
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 10:12 pm
Oooh, right.
I just usually don’t consider them a single religion, since they accept members from all along the religious spectrum. They take Jews, Muslims, Christians, even an atheist can be one of their members. They don’t really adhere to any one set of beliefs, more absorb others and add their own unique flavor to the collective (wow, too much Star Trek tonight, can you tell?). Their one defining characteristic seems to be that they have no one defining characteristic.
Unless you’re talking about the actual UU faith, which WOULD be its own separate path, along the lines of a New Age faith (or so I’ve heard the categorization from a UU friend).
You mentioned previously you’re a UU Christian. What would you categorize the overall UU faith as?
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A Walkaway
Sep. 20th, 2011 at 12:05 am
Well, that’s hard to define. Maybe nearly impossible. One of our ministers gave a good talk on it over a year ago, and I probably should re-read what she said. I think she defined it in a nutshell, but I don’t remember what she said. I’ll have to talk about my own beliefs about it.
I’m not sure if you could say that there is one faith. There are new-age UUs (I think…), I have several Pagan and Atheist UU friends, I know of Muslim UUs (several), and also several Christian UUs are friends. It’s more of a covenantal church rather than creedal.
I guess the best way to describe it as that we believe in and care about (and respect) people, and we support them in whatever spiritual walk they take. As a general rule, we believe that God (or whatever) relates to people in whatever way is best for them – or tries to (and yes, that’s a theistic view that not all share).
It’s more that we’re driven by a set of 7 official principles.
* The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
* Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
* Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
* A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
* The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
* The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
* Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.
(Copied from the UUA website http://www.uua.org/beliefs/principles/ ).
What we don’t accept is people trying to tell others how to believe or be. That’s the business of the individual in question. We also hold scientific research in high regard and value scholarship greatly. (sometimes the belief and science come into conflict… but if you care about the person you can get over/past that.)
Now I follow the Way of the Square Ground (as best as possible, which is quite difficult because my Square is 300 miles away). I was taught by elders that our Way is a pre-Columbian form of Christianity – the last time I was on the square, a creed was less important than the cultural aspects of our Way (like an elder said: Tradition is important, but people are more important than Tradition). I have certain beliefs connected with the Square, but they are not open for discussion (considered absolutely private, and for tribe and very close personal friends only). As far as my own doctrines regarding Christ and God, they’re somewhat between Arianism and Trinitarianism, with a healthy dose of “who knows for sure and is it really that important?” I strongly believe in the person called Jesus, and believe that most of “Christianity” has severely strayed from His teachings and example. I also believe that even the best understanding of the Creator is limited at best… and that people (such as the ancient Israelites and many Christians) tend to put their own faces on God, if you know what I mean.
I also very strongly agree with many of the principles of Universalism – in that the Creator tries to relate to all in ways that best fit the individual, irregardless of their beliefs. That there is truth in all religious systems – truth connected with God/The Creator. In my belief system, the Bible is best understood when you are able to come to grips with what Jesus was trying to teach… and that understanding requires not only a great deal of scholarship, but also a lot of self-reflection, introspection, and trying to understand the Other. It also requires acceptance of others and caring for them, although I don’t have to agree with them. (I admit I’m not that far along in the last, but it’s because of the things I’ve experienced at the hands of the “Good Christians”, and I admit to feeling hate or strong dislike for most of them. It’s a natural reaction to a lifetime of injustice and deliberate harm.)
One thing we find as UUs is that we learn from each other, and that learning enriches our own personal walk. Now, could a fundamentalist become a UU? Yes, but I would think it a very difficult path because of religious supremacy and the tendency to force their beliefs on others (plus fundamentalism is a closed mindset or closed thinking system, and being in one that is open would not be fun or easy for them).
I hope that is helpful.
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It is all consciousness
Sep. 20th, 2011 at 1:06 am
The highest form of Love is simply Being.
When consciousness becomes awakened, you are enlightened.
And those who have become totally conscious have been our highest flowering.
In them is the argument for our evolution.
All the people who have become fully conscious have all agreed on the point that consciousness is the stuff the universe is made of – different forms, different stages, but it is all consciousness.
It is not just a philosophy or an imaginary idea, because thousands of people have become totally conscious.
But the West has not known the experience of enlightenment.
It has created great artists, but unfortunately in the West there has been no atmosphere for enlightenment.
“I believe in Spinoza’s God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings.
The idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I am unable to take seriously.
The most beautiful and most profound religious emotion that we can experience is the sensation of the mystical.
And this mysticality is the power of all true science.” Albert Einstein.
Modern physics, in the hands of Albert Einstein, has turned almost into mysticism.
Nobody has noted the fact, because mystics don’t understand modern physics and the physicists do not care about the mystics.
The mystics have always experienced that they are one, but nobody has listened to them.
Perhaps man was not mature enough to understand the depth of their declaration.
The mystics have simply expressed the oneness of all.
Physicists go into detail.
Albert Einstein, especially, was the first scientist to come to the conclusion that time is the fourth dimension of matter.
Matter has three dimensions, the fourth dimension is invisible and that is time, but it is not separate from matter.
Modern physics has declared – without declaring the death of matter – that there is no matter at all.
With the disappearance of matter and with the death of God, only one energy remains in the whole cosmos.
Now time and space cannot be two.
They have to be expressions of one energy.
Spacetime.
But the mind can succeed only as far as science is concerned, it cannot succeed in religious consciousness.
One has to understand that the methodology that works for the outer cannot work for the inner.
Simply because the inner is the opposite dimension, the same methods will not be applicable.
You will have to find new methodology for the inner.
And that is meditation.
The mind cannot understand that which is beyond words; it can understand only that which is linguistically, logically right.
It can only conceive very limited things.
It has no intelligence of its own; it is a memory system.
You feed it certain information, it will keep it on record.
Whenever you want, it will supply it.
An intelligent man’s mind is capable of containing all the information that is in all the libraries of the world – it is almost infinite.
But mind is simply a collection of memories of the past, and – out of those memories – imagination about the future.
Understanding this whole process, one thing becomes certain: why the mind avoids the present, which is the real, and why it tries to get involved with past and future, which are not real.
God is a need for the mind, because the mind cannot conceive infinite, eternal things.
God simply is not there.
A man of meditation knows there is no God other than life itself.
God is simply the poverty of human consciousness.
God exists because you are not aware of yourself.
The moment you know yourself, there is no God and there is no need of any God.
When I say there is no God, I am not saying that I disbelieve in God; even for disbelief, God has to be.
I am simply saying there is no God, has never been – all definitions are inventions.
When you come to reality there is no negativity, no positivity.
So there is no question of atheism or theism.
The whole world of polarities is transcended.
But the mind cannot conceive how contradictions can meet, how polarities can be one.
Yet in existence they are meeting, they are one.
Reality is herenow.
Osho – The Transmission Of The Lamp.
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Kate
Sep. 20th, 2011 at 10:22 am
So basically…”my mumbo jumbo is more correct than your mumbo jumbo, and I’m gonna be nice and cryptic by quoting writings instead of simply explaining myself”.
Right. I don’t like fundamentalist Christian zucchinis shoved down my throat, and I don’t like New Age meditative zucchinis shoved down my throat. So drop the zucchini. Your way may not be the way for everyone, though it may be the right way for you. Go eat your own zucchini and leave me to my butternut squash. And respect that I find butternut squash to be very tasty. Hell, I’ll even make you some zucchini bread…but don’t expect me to eat it. (That enough metaphor for ya?)
Instead of sticking to the subject (that being the notion that not all religions are constantly at war, that there are good people in this world regardless of creed), you go off on a tangent on the nature of God (or the lack thereof) and the universe. Way to avoid the subject. I’m starting to think you’re just trolling.
Please. Be clear, be concise, stay on-topic, and perhaps inject your OWN thoughts into the conversation. It makes conversation a lot more productive. I for one don’t need a migraine to start off my morning.
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Your butternut squash
Sep. 20th, 2011 at 3:32 pm
All the history of the people who have experienced God, talked with God, has to be researched with more psychological insight.
They are not different than madmen. All their pretensions, declarations that they are the only son of God, that they are the only prophet of God, that they are the only reincarnation of God are nothing but mad assertions.
It will be a real shock if you realize that these people were surrounded by hallucinations; they had created their own reality around themselves.
Their gods are their imagination, their messages are from their own minds, the scriptures they have left behind are manufactured by them.
They created religious fictions.
Millions of people have been murdered, butchered, burned alive in the name of these religious fictions.
Jesus had never even heard the name Christianity. It has been imposed on him, he was not the founder of Christianity.
His life was written eighty years after his death, by people who had not directly known him.
Now even Christian scholars have come to the conclusion that the Christian gospels were not written by the apostles but were written by somebody else, because the mountains described are not in the same place where they are described in the gospels. The rivers described are not in the same place where they are described in the gospels.
Everything was written by people who had not known Jesus Christ, and neither had they lived with Jesus Christ.
Who exactly was the founder of Christianity?
One thing is certain, Jesus was not. He never thought about founding a religion, he was simply telling the Jews, “I am your last prophet.”
He died on the cross as a Jew.
You can find Buddhism in the teachings of Gautam Buddha; he was the founder. You can find in the teachings of Mahavira that he was the founder of Jainism. You can find in the teachings of Lao Tzu that he was the founder of Taoism.
But it is a very strange thing about Christianity: Jesus had no idea at all, was not interested in creating a new religion.
Then who founded Christianity?
The man who founded it – you will not believe it – was the Emperor Constantine. The church knows it, but does not allow the public to know it.
Emperor Constantine of Rome, who headed the Council of Nicea, died as a Christian, but he was baptized only on his deathbed. His whole life he was the high priest of the Sun God religion, which was why he changed the sabbath from Saturday, which was Jesus’ sabbath day, to Sunday. Jews still have their sabbath on Saturday, and Jesus also had lived his whole life believing in the sabbath on Saturday. How did it become Sunday?
It was Constantine, who was a worshipper of the Sun God. Sunday represents the sun; the followers of the sun have always believed that Sunday is a holy day.
It was Constantine who was actually the founder of Christianity. He was the decisive factor in the Council of Nicea. It was under his pressure – because he was the emperor of Rome – that the priests voted for the divine personality of Jesus. He made Jesus a divine person. It was his creation, his invention.
Constantine saw Jesus as a failed messiah, with himself as the real messiah – and his view was ratified by the famous Christian bishop, Eusebius of Caesarea, who said, “It is as if the religion of Abraham is at last fulfilled, not in Jesus, but in Constantine.”
He also changed Jesus’ birthday from January sixth to December twenty-fifth, the day of the solar rebirth. The twenty-fifth of December, which is celebrated all over the world, is not Jesus’ birthday. The whole idea of their Christmas is bogus – and the church knows it perfectly well but won’t allow people to know about it.
Jesus was born on January sixth, but under Constantine’s influence and power, it was changed to December twenty-fifth, the day of the solar rebirth. It is thought by the sun worshippers that the sun was born on the twenty-fifth of December.
The whole of Christianity is living in utter darkness.
Constantine, killed ten thousand people in a single day. He just called an assembly of all those who were not Catholics in a great auditorium in Rome, and ordered the army to kill everybody: “We don’t want anybody other than Christians in Rome.” He forced the whole of Italy to become Christian… just at the point of a sword.
The whole history of Christianity is of wars and nothing else – killing and violence.
Constantine imposed himself as the real last prophet for whom the Jews had been waiting. Of course, the Jews could not crucify the emperor of Rome. And the Christians wanted some royal support; otherwise they were being crucified everywhere. They found a shelter in Constantine, but it was a bargain, purely business. They accepted that Jesus was a failed messiah, and that Constantine was the real messiah.
But this is not told to the public! Christians are not aware of it. All these scriptures are hidden under the Vatican.
They have been talking about truth, but they have been hiding immensely important things.
They have changed all the gospels, they have edited everything that was going to be difficult for them to argue for, to defend.
The whole of Christianity lives in a paranoia that if anybody finds some truth, then what is going to happen to their lies that they go on propagating?
Osho – Christianity the deadliest poison…
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Kate
Sep. 20th, 2011 at 5:28 pm
So let’s just ignore the millions of Christians like Mother Theresa, the millions whose sole purpose in life is to do good and emulate the life, work, and teachings of Christ.
And yes, I know all about the foundations of early Christianity. I did take history classes in high school. And I find it advantageous to study my own faith and other faiths I take interest in, not only through their religious texts but also through the eyes of historians. Knowing the corrupt history of the Church does not automatically invalidate the core of the faith that founded it…it merely makes one more aware of the conditions surrounding the organization of said faith from independent worshipers to a ratified religion. And it’s actually common knowledge among the Anglicans and Catholics, the founding of the faith and the circumstances it was brought together under. We do not deny the ugly history of the Church, we simply choose to move past it to a brighter future. None of that is hidden somewhere under the Vatican…it is available for public view in any secondary school textbook, and for discussion throughout all of Anglican Christendom. So I don’t know where in the world you’re getting the idea that it’s forbidden knowledge.
I choose to follow Christ because of the work He did and the way of life He preached. I choose to believe He was an incarnation of the Divine. I believe this not because of any brainwashing or paranoia, but because it is a belief that fits with my worldview and my own personal spiritual path. I choose to surround myself with a faith community that shares my views and offers new perspectives on the teachings we follow. I believe in a path that holds peace, love, equality, humility, and self-sacrifice in the highest esteem. Paranoia, brainwashing, and fear totally aren’t my thing. In fact, I don’t know many Christians who actually espouse paranoia and fear, outside of the radical sects.
But let’s ignore all the good. Throw out the baby with the bathwater, because they’re all WRONG and EVIL and MISGUIDED! It’s all FICTION because you SAID SO! All the good that Christians have done throughout history is to be thrown out, because it’s all about WAR and POWER and FEAR! Let’s base everything off of the actions of misguided men, instead of searching for the core of truth.
You are no different from Hagee and his ilk, albeit of a different faith path. Intolerance is intolerance, the whole world over. And since this discussion cannot possibly go anywhere constructive (and once again you insist on quoting gurus and philosophers instead of holding an actual conversation), I bid you good day.
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Truth is a search, not a faith.
Sep. 21st, 2011 at 4:49 am
“instead of searching for the core of truth.”
What do you know of Truth?
What truth are you defending?
First you have to have the truth, only then you can defend it.
The question is knowing the truth.
A man who knows does not need faith.
Faith is needed for exploitation.
It is faith which has kept humanity ignorant.
Faith simply means hiding ignorance, and it is very cheap.
Truth needs great energy, great urgency, and a total involvement in the search.
Truth is a search, not a faith.
It is an inquiry, not a belief.
Faith is a block. It is always blind.
Faith is always in the other – in Jesus, in God, in heaven, in hell.
It is always outside you, and truth is within you.
Anything that comes from outside is not going to help you.
Only when the truth is not known do you carry the scripture in your head.
Theories are substitutes, dead.
If you believe in a God, naturally your seeking stops. Why should one seek and search when he believes?
Faith means you are absolutely certain that God exists.
Now there is no question of enquiring.
That’s why all the religions emphasize faith, so that they can stop your search.
The Bible says God created man in his own image.
The reality is just the opposite: man has created God in his own image.
And he has been trying to refine the image of God, finding explanations for all kinds of absurdities.
It is mere theology, it is all mind-projection.
Religion is a con game.
It is all a psychological sickness.
And God is not the cure.
God is not a solution for any problem.
In fact, God creates more problems in the world and he does not solve anything.
If God created the world, and if he is behind nuclear weapons and the people who are creating them, then no effort on man’s part can prevent the destruction of the whole planet.
To give the creation of the world into the hands of a fictitious God is very dangerous.
It makes us absolutely impotent. We cannot do anything.
The truth is that God himself is a creation of man’s imagination.
There is no person as God; all personality is human projection.
And God being a fiction, your prayer is false, and your religiousness is imposed.
Anything imposed from outside destroys you, your freedom, your individuality.
Your inner space is completely closed.
Belief in God is keeping billions of people locked outside their own consciousness.
True religiousness is your own interiority, your own inner space.
It is your innermost core.
It is an inward journey. It opens up only in deep meditation.
It is Intuitive. (No Mind)
Intuition will give you a tremendous clarity, understanding, a new kind of intelligence of which you are absolutely unaware.
Intuition cannot be translated into intellect.
Intuition is given by your own nature, from inside.
You have your guide within you.
Does the Christian church know the truth?
It has, in fact, no way to reach to the truth. Prayer is not the way, because prayer is based on belief in a God.
So it is not a question of faith or belief, it is a question of deepest inquiry into your own being, into your own consciousness.
The reality is that the truth should be revealed, that the people should come to understand what is false and what is not false.
The only true religion there is, is the art of changing the unconscious mind into consciousness.
Osho – Light on the path.
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Kate
Sep. 21st, 2011 at 10:26 am
*yawn*
Yup, you’re trolling. And apparently, you’ve proven yourself incapable of carrying on a conversation without resorting entirely to quoting your guru. I am speaking TO you, you are speaking AT me…and that is quite rude and arrogant.
The truth behind the misdeeds of the Church? The truth is that there are millions of people out there who use their faith as inspiration to make the world a better place. They acknowledge the very human failings of the people who first structured the Church. They believe in a God who values love, tolerance, and ministering to the least, the lowest, the poorest. And they take that belief, go out into the world, and try to make a difference. The Church was founded by fallible men, and fallible men continue the Church. But some fallible men also recognize their own fallibility, and try to do what good they can in the time given to them on this earth.
Not everyone’s path lies with any idea of a God or Gods. But the contributions of those who do follow those paths in honesty should not be thrown aside just because you disagree with their beliefs.
Seems to be something you gladly ignore in favor of a very one-sided conversation (which, by the way, seems to be you touting your own beliefs at the expense of all others…a very Hagee brand of hatred!).
So once again, I bid you good day…I’m done speaking with you since you quote at me and refuse to actually converse. It is a fruitless effort, trying to reason with the unreasonable.
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Christ is a state of consciousness.
Sep. 22nd, 2011 at 12:52 am
“I’m done speaking with you since you quote at me and refuse to actually converse.”
I am doing nothing but converse with you, but you keep missing? you are too full of yourself, and your mind, to catch it.
“It is a fruitless effort, trying to reason with the unreasonable.”
Reality is unreasonable! Only No Mind will give you a Direct experience of it.
Truth is always alive, eternally alive.
It cannot be confined in words; the message is wordless.
Remember your mind is your prison.
To go beyond it is your freedom.
Wake up!
This is what Jesus was really teaching you, though you and your mind will miss again!
So why do you miss a living Christ?
This has to be understood, because it must be something very deep-rooted in the mind, in the very nature of the mind.
It is not an individual error, it is not a mistake committed by this man or that man.
For millennia it has been committed by the human mind.
The mind has to be penetrated and understood.
One thing: the mind has no present, it has only past and future.
If you are just here in this moment, without the mind, there is no time.
Only the present is existential.
Existence remains always in the present.
Life is all there is.
Reality is herenow.
Consciousness is always of the present.
So those who want to live, for them there is no other way than to live this moment.
Christ is a tittle it means the crowned one, the awakened one.
Whosoever become crowned by the glory of awakening, is Christ.
Christ is a state of consciousness.
Rebelliousness is the essential quality of a Christ.
Anywhere he feels a barrier, he will feel rebellious, he is never conformist.
He can create a revolution, he cannot create an establishment.
If a Christ comes today, Christians will not be at ease with him.
He will destroy everything you have.
The Vatican, the Church, is not possible with a Christ.
It is only possible without him.
Christians are so full of the lies, fictions and nonsense that your church’ has created in you.
That if a Christ moves amongst you now, the moment he starts speaking, you will want to crucify him again!
The fifth gospel of Thomas was written in India.
It has not been included in the Bible, it was not available to Constantine, who was compiling, and who was deciding what was to be included and what was not to be included.
It was because of Constantine that all these ideas, mythologies, and fictions have been added to the life of Jesus.
Thomas, is the disciple closest to Jesus.
Jesus sent Thomas to south India.
But his sayings are not included in the Bible, because the real Jesus and his closest disciples have to be excluded – they are too dangerous.
JESUS SAID: MEN POSSIBLY THINK THAT I HAVE COME TO THROW PEACE UPON THE WORLD, AND THEY DO NOT KNOW THAT I HAVE COME TO THROW DIVISIONS UPON THE EARTH – FIRE, SWORD, WAR.
FOR THERE SHALL BE FIVE IN A HOUSE: THREE SHALL BE AGAINST TWO AND TWO AGAINST THREE; THE FATHER AGAINST THE SON AND THE SON AGAINST THE FATHER; AND THEY WILL STAND AS SOLITARIES.
JESUS SAID: I WILL GIVE YOU WHAT THE EYE HAS NOT SEEN, AND WHAT THE EAR HAS NOT HEARD, AND WHAT THE HAND HAS NOT TOUCHED, AND WHAT HAS NOT ARISEN IN THE HEART OF MAN.
The Fifth Gospel of Thomas
Whenever a man like Jesus comes, the world is immediately divided between those who are for him and those who are against him.
He brings to this world something from beyond the mind. Those who are afraid of the beyond immediately become the enemies – that is their way of protecting themselves.
For those who have a desire, a seed hidden somewhere, who have been searching and searching and longing for the beyond, this man becomes charismatic, this man becomes a magnetic force – they fall in his love.
But whatsoever he is saying is a parable, don’t take him literally.
Christianity took it literally and missed the point, they have killed millions unnecessarily, but that was not the meaning of Jesus. He was talking of something else. He is saying that through inner conflict growth is achieved, through your inner war peace flowers. He was not talking of the swords of this world; he brought a sword of a different world.
Why ‘fire’? There are techniques for igniting your inner fire. Right now it is almost dead, covered with ashes. It has to be poked, discovered, rekindled.
When the inner fire burns in its totality, suddenly you are transformed – there is no transformation without fire.
Create the conflict inside but don’t create it outside. The inner conflict is more than enough; it will give you the growth, the maturity needed.
In your body there are ‘five in the house’ – the five senses
A friction has to be created. The senses have to fight and the fight has to be made conscious.
If you can see your senses fighting, you will become separate because you become a witness.
You are no longer the eyes, no longer the ears, no longer the hands, no longer the body – you are a witness.
The fight goes on within the body and you are an onlooker. This is the meaning, the deepest meaning of the parable.
Your consciousness is a solitary peak. That is the beauty of it and you are unnecessarily afraid of it.
Because you have lived in society, you have been brought up by the society – you have completely forgotten that in the innermost core of your being you are alone.
When you become a solitary, totally alone, suddenly you realize that which no eye can see, no ear can hear, and what the hand has not touched.
It cannot touch your consciousness – there is no way.
One has to transcend the mind. Religiousness arises at the deepest layer.
That which is beyond mind. You cannot catch hold of it, you cannot see it, you cannot hear it, you cannot even feel it.
If you come to this, then every mystery is revealed and all doors are opened.
If you come to a true master, this is the criterion: whatsoever peace you have, that too will be destroyed; whatsoever ‘at-easeness’ you have is going to go to the dogs. He will create more turmoil, more conflict. Growth is difficult, you will have to pass through many difficulties.
Many times you would like to escape from this man, but you cannot because he will haunt you.
But out of that growth some day you will flower. And that flowering will be the true peace, the true silence.
JESUS SAID: THE KINGDOM OF THE FATHER IS LIKE A MAN, A MERCHANT, WHO
POSSESSED MERCHANDISE AND FOUND A PEARL.
THE MERCHANT WAS PRUDENT. HE SOLD THE MERCHANDISE AND BOUGHT THE ONE
PEARL FOR HIMSELF.
DO YOU ALSO SEEK FOR THE TREASURE WHICH FAILS NOT, WHICH ENDURES,
WHERE NO MOTH COMES NEAR TO DEVOUR AND WHERE NO WORM DESTROYS.
The Fifth Gospel of Thomas
If you look without, the world of the many exists; if you look within, then the world is one.
If you go outside you may achieve much, but you will miss the one.
The pearl is symbolic of the one, the inner.
And that one is your very center; if you miss it you have missed all.
You may attain much but that much will not count much in the end, because unless one attains to oneself nothing is attained.
If you are a stranger to yourself, even the whole world will not fulfill you.
If you have not got into your own being, then all the riches will make you even poorer.
The truth is so clear, but still we go on missing.
Man, if he lives with the mind, can never be innocent.
Innocence is the door.
Mind is cunning, calculating, it is clever, and because of this cleverness you miss – you miss the reality of life.
If you are not awake, you are not here, you simply believe that you are.
This belief won’t help.
You are not alert, you are not awake: you simply think that you are awake and alert.
Your sleep continues from birth to death.
If somebody came to Jesus to ask what he should do to change, Jesus would say:
You cannot do anything to change unless you become awake.
What can you do?
What can a man who is fast asleep do to change his dreams?
The deepest urge in man is to be totally free.
Freedom from mind, is the goal.
Jesus calls it the kingdom of God.
Osho – The Mustard Seed: Commentaries on the Fifth Gospel of Thomas.
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Shiva (Moderator)
Sep. 22nd, 2011 at 7:28 am
You know you could have done all this in a few lines and got your point across. As it is, I have no idea what your point is, nor at this point do I want to know.
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Reynardine
Sep. 22nd, 2011 at 8:27 am
It sounds like your Hartz Mountain Song Food grew the good stuff. Pass that joint.
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Reynardine
Sep. 22nd, 2011 at 8:30 am
Oh, and Jesus smoked pot.
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The most essential
Sep. 22nd, 2011 at 10:00 am
“As it is, I have no idea what your point is, nor at this point do I want to know.”
You cannot know from what point your ignorance begins; you always find it there; you are always in the midst of it.
Ignorance has no beginning, but it ends.
Enlightenment has a beginning, but it never ends.
The beginning of enlightenment and the end of ignorance is a single point.
We have now reached a point where the old has to be dropped and the new has to be heralded.
A sense of humor, is one of the most essential parts of religiousness.
One day, Jesus wakes up in a bad mood. He is feeling depressed and lethargic.
In fact, a typical Monday-morning feeling. He wanders around heaven looking for someone to cheer him up and finally arrives at the Pearly Gates where Saint Peter is interviewing the new arrivals.
Suddenly he sees an old man with a long white beard whose face looks familiar. He goes up to him. “Excuse me sir,” says Jesus, “but your face seems familiar. I am sure we have met. What did you do on earth?”
The old man smiles. “As a matter of fact,” he says, “I am a carpenter and lived a full and happy life until my son left home and became world famous. I never saw him again.”
Jesus looks at him with astonishment and says with delight, “Dad!” The old man opens his eyes wide and rushes forward with outstretched arms, crying, “Pinocchio!”
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Shiva (Moderator)
Sep. 22nd, 2011 at 10:13 am
I still dont want to know. there are always people like you who think that their knowledge is truth. You’re saying so doesn’t make it so you might want to find a different delivery system.
Also posting under different names will not get you any handclaps and will probably get you banned. You are talking absolute bull ship. by the way, stuff your Jesus in your rucksack on your way out
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Mark
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 2:05 pm
Christianity seems to be on vacation in Hagee’s world. I wish he and others like him could be shut down.
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William R. Cashwell
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 3:07 pm
I have to agree with church101 there will be a day when all will bow down to The Lord and Savior Christ Jesus and proclaim Him Lord of Lords and King of Kings. In that day all of you that reject Christ as your Savior will see the truth. I pray that you came to your senses. As long as you are a live and breathing you have the opportunity to except a free gift of eternal life in heaven with God. But once you breathe your last breath and give up your soul, there are no more chances. Do not let yourself be deceived by so call secular wisdom, all it will do is take you straight to Hell. Please except Christ as your Savior before you have no more chances.
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Morgan Zee
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 3:55 pm
It’s “accept” not except.
And as I said to Church 101, no.
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William R. Cashwell
Sep. 20th, 2011 at 7:03 pm
You are right I did spell accept wrong. Thank you and God bless you for showing me my mistake.
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Hrafnkell Haraldsson
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 4:03 pm
Well, as Radbod the Frisian said, I’d rather go to hell with my ancestors than to heaven with a parcel of beggars. Kindly take the preaching elsewhere.
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Kate
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 4:08 pm
And like I said to church101, take your proselytizing elsewhere. This is a political website, not a place where you can cram your religion down another person’s throat. You’re Christian. Great. So am I. And some people aren’t Christian. And that’s an argument best left between themselves and God Almighty. Judge not lest ye be judged, and all that good stuff.
And for the record, “join us or end up in Hell” is the worst argument there is against joining any faith group. You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar (or battery acid). Live a life worthy of Christ, and draw others to Him through example. Save your words for more worthwhile topics, and learn to temper yourself to be a gentle soul.
Also, there is a difference between “except” (meaning to leave something out) and “accept” (meaning to receive something).
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SinghX
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 4:27 pm
Preaching at people who do not share your “belief” is a form of mental illness. It’s demented. It’s ugly. It is human oppression. It only serves to undermine reality. No human being will intentionally join you, any group or church who uses these psychological technique to shame, guilt, and reinforce mental illness as a “world view”; you have what is known as a revenge fantasy.
The evidence is over-whelming that your only reason to post here is to spread chaos, madness and threaten people. You need help before you fall in the street with twisted, contorted mouth screaming for someone to help take the demons out of your head…that’s what happens to addicts like yourself…get some help.
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Jeff H in TX
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 4:55 pm
Jesus please protect me from your followers!
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A Walkaway
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 8:29 pm
How many times have I heard people JUST LIKE YOU? Seriously… at least a few times a month, if not more. If I have to do much “in the public” around here, sometimes a few times a day.
You want to know a truth? I observed them, and they were all using deception and lies to try to convert people. Deception and lies and fear. What was horrifying was that they’d act so holy and pious, but you could see the bigotry in their faces.
You claim to be Christian: where does that come from?
I call upon you to do the thing people like you tend to prattle (without knowing what they are saying): REPENT!
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Hrafnkell Haraldsson
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 4:04 pm
I guess you didn’t – or can’t – read the article. You obviously haven’t read much else to judge by your reasoning powers.
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Levi777
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 4:13 pm
This article is a perfect example of denial of truths for an agenda. Fact is, when satan rebelled against God, he introduced another will into the universe. It is that other will that is evil and corrupt, and all done according to that other will produces wickedness. The author clearly ignores the millions and millions that have been slaughtered by atheists, Communists, Taoists, and others who do not at all believe in Jesus Christ. Yes, some have committed violence supposing to advance the kingdom of God on esrth, but they have miserably misunderstood that the kingdom of God is resident within the hearts of those who believe, and can never be advanced by sword or coercion. It is to be advanced by the power of the witness of God in human hearts, which He Himself conducts. Adherence to a church is supposed to be the fruit of a relationship with God, not the source of relationship with Him. And in that the Gospel of Jesus Christ does indeed transform lives from the inward man, it has been shown to transform the man, and thereby the culture.
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Shiva (Moderator)
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 4:28 pm
the atheists Communists, Taoists didnt do it in the name of a religion that supposedly preaches peace. Thats the difference. Plus you might read up on John Hagee, the author is not picking on regular christians here
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Kate
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 4:31 pm
” they have miserably misunderstood that the kingdom of God is resident within the hearts of those who believe, and can never be advanced by sword or coercion”
Very good point. Even Jesus says that His Kingdom is not of this world. So why do Hagee, Robertson, and the rest of the Dominionists insist on making American into “God’s kingdom”?
The logic just doesn’t add up!
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Shiva (Moderator)
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 4:35 pm
as far as I’m concerned, it has nothing to do with Jesus. It has to do with the ability to make people live the way you want to under some type of sadistic rule. Unfortunately violence is part of the church when they try to use power to run people’s lives. And right now with the Dominionists trying to get into office they will have to fight to make sure that everybody believes in their religion. Which is where most of the violence has come from over the last thousand years or so.
It’s all about power
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Kate
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 4:43 pm
So in other words, they haven’t actually READ the Bible they use to beat people down with.
How typical.
It’s the Dark Ages all over again, but inverted. Back then, if you wanted any political power, you got your cousin elected Pope. Nowadays, if you want religious power, you get elected to political office!
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God_is_with_Us
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 5:28 pm
The logic is easy… Why wait until you die to experience Heaven… why not bring Heaven to earth?
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Kate
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 7:05 pm
That would be nice…and better go about it soon, because Hagee, Robertson, and their ilk are making this world Hell. I shudder to think what America would be like if they had their way with it. Goodbye freedom of religion, goodbye freedom to assemble, goodbye freedom of the press,and goodbye fantasy novels. The day any one of them wins an election is the day I move to Canada.
I doubt Christ would approve of their blatant intolerance and hate-mongering.
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A Walkaway
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 8:31 pm
Well, based upon the things I’ve experienced under “Good Christians”, their heaven is hell for everyone else (and if they aren’t careful and obey their masters’ slightest whims, hell for them too).
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SinghX
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 4:51 pm
Do you know what “failed entelechy” means? It means a failure to reach self-realization through personal development, vision or goal…it can be used by cults, like the one you belong to, as a systematic process to distract people like yourself from self-realization.
It is negative reinforcement technique to own you so you never see who and what you really are because you’re way too busy with trying to control others, convert them instead of accepting personal responsibility for your own life, behavior, and, your responsibility to the world outside of your cult. It is you who cannot “advance” to some “kingdom” of some sky-god because your goals are never self-realized. You’re in chain to a master you can never satisfy…
Simply put, your disenfranchisement with the world stems from a fantasy for revenge. You fail to connect with your self/others and thereby blame all outside the cult for your own failures, your failed entelechy.
Get some help or you will wind up in a downward spiral of bitterness, hurt and a betrayal that will gnaw at you the rest of your life.
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colleen
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 8:33 pm
Well and compassionately said, SinghX !
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Jeff H in TX
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 4:54 pm
Adherence to a church which commits heresy and produces corruption is like eating rotten fruit, therefore I choose to tell Hagee to stick his church as far up his ass as possible.
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Kate
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 4:58 pm
Oh come on now. Do the rest of us really want to smell the result when he breaks wind?
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A Walkaway
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 8:33 pm
Now THAT would be a weapon of mass destruction!!!
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Kate
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 4:23 pm
Oh, I’m sure the writer respects many things Christian. He just don’t respect asses who style themselves Christian while not walking the way of Christ.
God’s love. *sigh* You can respect the ideas of Christ while at the same time holding a certain amount of contempt for His decidedly un-Christlike followers. I’m sure even Jesus is cringing at the amount of His so-called followers who do everything EXCEPT love their neighbor.
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Kate
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 4:34 pm
And this was originally a reply under another comment…which seems to have disappeared.
O_o
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Jeff H in TX
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 4:51 pm
“Jesus please protect from your followers!”
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Jeff H in TX
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 4:50 pm
When I hear people like John Hagee speak, I start realizing that there is perhaps a very good reason Christianity is under attack.
For the same reason I also note that very few people, even atheists, are willing to attack Jesus Christ and his message, the church that has grown up in his name yes, but the man himself, no.
And it’s all spelled out in the very book most Christians rely on, but know so little about, The Bible. It’s in Revelations, all of the churches become corrupt.
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Kate
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 4:57 pm
“It’s in Revelations, all of the churches become corrupt.”
Oh, good. That means that soon it’ll all be over, the idiots will be sentenced to the hellfire they so loudly preached, and the rest of us can get on with our lives (albeit maybe in another form or state of being).
I take great pleasure in morbid things.
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A Walkaway
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 9:48 pm
Did you know that “Revelations” (properly called “Revelation” or “The Revelation of St. John”) was only included in the library called “The Bible” because of some really nasty politics?
In order to get the support of one Bishop (who wanted the book included – many of the Bishops didn’t), they had to include the book. It’s been controversial since the beginning and not as accepted as generally thought.
I myself tend to think Arian had some valid arguments – but that’s my personal view.
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Ray
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 5:02 pm
Just more proof that evangelical Christianity is the most dangerous terrorist threat to the world today.
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Bob
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 5:09 pm
And they’ve allied themselves with the party of atheist Ayn Rand….
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Brown cow
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 6:05 pm
Ummm Which millions have been slaughtered by atheists ? And don’t tell Hitler because he believed he was doing god’s work.
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Kate
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 7:31 pm
I’d hazard a guess at all the people killed or “disappeared” under the atheist rule of the Soviet Union. It was an ugly place to be if you were Christian. Marxist-Leninist militant atheism nearly destroyed the pre-war traditions of Russia, though enough survived in enough places to make a comeback after the fall of the USSR. On the books, religion was never outright outlawed. But Lenin’s gang made sure to terrorize mosques, churches, and temples, confiscate church property and religious items “for the good of the State”, and even torture, murder, or send believers to camps.
During the first five years alone after coming to power, the Bolsheviks executed 28 Russian Orthodox bishops, well over a thousand priests, and imprisoned still others.
Immediately following World War 2, it was in style to send Protestant Christians to mental hospitals for just about any reason that could be thought up.
No one’s hands are clean, belong they to Christian, Muslim, or atheist alike. Everyone has skeletons in their closets.
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heyshippy
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 6:14 pm
The author condemns Hagee for his hate. Most of these comments are people agreeing with the author. Most of those show their agreement by posting hateful comments about Christians.
Does anyone else see the problem here?
You guys are all just making Hagee right.
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Shiva (Moderator)
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 7:51 pm
hey shippy, you miss the point. Hagee is not a xtian like you. He is vastly different in that he wants to run your life his way through the government. You wouldnt like him if you knew him
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Kate
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 7:59 pm
I don’t see so many outright hating posts (at least not ones that haven’t been thoroughly counteracted with reason). I’ve seen…what, three? That were truly intolerant and possibly borderline hateful?
I AM seeing a lot of agreeing that Hagee himself (not all Christians everywhere forever and ever amen) is a Bible-abusing moron, and that the extreme brands of Christianity (usually cults billing themselves as legitimate denominations) are about as dangerous as chumming a shark-infested lagoon and then going for a swim right after having leg surgery.
I’m also seeing an astounding number of trolls trying to bully people into Christianity…much like the astounding number of Tea Partiers I saw on another thread.
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Arthur
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 7:13 pm
I can always depend on a good dose of hatred when I come to politicsusa!
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SinghX
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 10:17 pm
They why do you come here? Do you enjoy “hate” as much as Hagee or do you just show up to “hate and run”, in order to amuse yourself? Why bother? It doesn’t seem as if you have very good control over yourself if you profess to be hurt by all the so-called ubiquitous hate and then come here for what you refer to a a “good dose”…so, the hate here is the good kind of hate? Is that why your time and energy is here, because if feels so good? Doesn’t seem very sensible, logical or rational that you would bother…so, why don’t you do yourself a favor and block the site so you don’t have to control yourself to depend on others for you hate?
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SinghX
Sep. 20th, 2011 at 12:21 am
Sorry Arthur, I thought you were “serious” and I took your snark seriously… I’m just the garbage man emptying the bins when they get too full of sh*t around here…
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Zee
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 8:03 pm
If you want to lump 80% of the population into one set way of belief – you can do that, but you can never know what I think and how I believe as a christian. Many – I say MOST Christians do not subscribe to Hagee’s belief system, they do not carry the hate he carries. Just like the Tea Party, the likes of Hagee scream the loudest, so are heard the most. Watch that you do not lump us all in his category – and I won’t say that you want to throw all Christians to the lions.
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A Walkaway
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 8:45 pm
Whenever you walk into a church, and the pastor starts talking about how Christians need to take back the country; if you don’t speak out immediately, you’re supporting people like Hagee.
If you walk into a church and hear hate spewed against gays and don’t denounce it, you’re supporting people like Hagee.
If you think Christianity is better than all other religions and must be triumphant (and you have to let them all know that – called evangelism): you are JUST LIKE HAGEE.
I hear arguments like yours all the time… usually from the people who come into our space and try to convert us. They ALWAYS end up telling us we’re going to hell because we don’t believe (or practice) like them. ALWAYS.
People who argue like you have also have repeated so many of the lies promoted by their masters (their preachers/pastors)… things long been disproved but still believed because they won’t listen. Things like “Christians are persecuted in this country!” or “Evolution is just a theory!”
Why not a little “We’ve sinned, please forgive us?” I’m serious… I am so sick of the attitude I encounter from “Good Christians” who think they are so right and that everyone else has to know it. What about trying to fix the damage done to the people harmed by the “Good Christians”? Why not try to be actually Christ-like for once???
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Amazed
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 8:45 pm
I am constantly amazed how people that say they have knowledge about the Bible and it’s meaning are so stupid. Yeah, Christians have their issues just like everyone else but the difference is a personal relationship with God and that forgiveness clause that Jesus gives.
All I see here is ignorant people that think they know the Bible but they don’t know the Bible by the spirit. It’s not just a book you pick up and you think you have all the answers. The Bible speaks truth.
Are their crazy Christians? Of course, but there are crazy Jews, Muslims and postal workers.
Hagee’s message is right on. Everyone says it’s just entertainment. Porn is entertainment, Witchcraft is entertainment. Have you ever heard of the spirit of divination? Anything that gives the resemblance of witchcraft is sin.
Everything is spirit based. We battle not against flesh and blood but……you know the scripture. Spirits of hate, spirits of murder, spirit of this and that.
At the end of the day God loves gay people, but hates their lifestyle. God loves the liars, but not the lying. God loves the person and wants them to reach out and accept his free give of eternal life.
I can say negative things and get everyone one all mad at me, but this is all spiritual warfare issues. What I know and what I do could be a sin unto me because I have knowledge of that issue. You could do the same thing and it’s not a sin unto you because you have no knowledge or haven’t been told in the spirit that it’s a sin. Once you have been told whether you understand it or not it becomes a sin unto you.
Abortion is wrong
Songs talking about affairs or screwing people are wrong…it’s not entertainment.
Pastors that have sex with members are wrong.
I equate everyone’s bad experiences with ministers and clergy etc to money. We know that there is counterfeit money in circulation. We get paid and we use our money without even thinking that “False” money exist. The problem is for all the false money in circulation there is real money. The same exist in every church, every business and every city and state in this nation. There are false preachers, but Hagee has preached what the Bible states weather you like it or not.
And since so many people think he is crazy just consider my comments to you as entertainment.
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Shiva (Moderator)
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 9:37 pm
You could become an atheist and leave all that dogma and fairy tales behind.
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Kate
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 9:59 pm
“Witchcraft is entertainment. Have you ever heard of the spirit of divination? Anything that gives the resemblance of witchcraft is sin.” Not from what I’ve been taught. Any gift, any talent, is a precious gift from God and is something to be celebrated and nurtured (even though the medieval, uneducated populace may call it witchcraft….and hey, that’s what they said about women learning math, back in the day, so don’t immediately blast that which you can’t comprehend as “eebil witchcraft”.) Plus you kinda just insulted every Wiccan and spirit-worker and shaman out there. How rude.
“At the end of the day God loves gay people, but hates their lifestyle.” Not from what I’ve been taught. God don’t care about what’s done in your bedroom, as long as it is done with love.
“Abortion is wrong.” Not from what I’ve been taught. It is tragic, it is regrettable, but in some cases it is medically necessary. And all the other cases? It’s between that woman and God, let them sort it out.
I don’t know what God you worship, but the God I embrace as an Episcopalian loves and embraces all. Gay, straight, questioning…if it is done with love, it is of God, for God is Love.
And the God I worship tells us that other faiths are to be cherished for the inherent search for the truth they all contain. And doesn’t mention a thing about witchcraft, for who are we to tell what gifts of the Spirit, what “supernatural” talents, God gives to His children (for we are ALL God’s children, whether we embrace Him or not)?
My God loves me sexuality-queer, genderqueer, shamanistic, and all. He loves me as the child He created me to be, because all God makes is good. The path I follow is the one He set before me…and if that path includes interaction with those gone before me, and an intense love for my girlfriend, then so be it. I accept that path with joy and humility.
I don’t know what God you’re following, but it’s not the same one I follow. So don’t presume to speak for anyone but yourself.
I don’t consider your comments entertainment. In fact, I consider them rather offensive and presumptive.
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SinghX
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 10:33 pm
…”this is all spiritual warfare issues. What I know and what I do could be a sin unto me because I have knowledge of that issue…”
What are you babbling about? For heaven’s sake, child, speak in English, not some psycho-babble code!
…”You could do the same thing and it’s not a sin unto you because you have no knowledge or haven’t been told in the spirit that it’s a sin…”
What “thing” what “sin” what “knowledge”; you haven’t defined a single “thing” in comprehensive form so that you are understood. Why do you insist on gibberish? Does the spirit inspire you or is it that you are trying, for probably the first time, to use your own voice but don’t know how?
….”Once you have been told whether you understand it or not it becomes a sin unto you…”
Do you find yourself troubled by sin, especially all the sin you perceive around you? What are those sins? Can you list a few? Maybe we can help you figure it out so that you won’t feel so compelled by all these things troubling you, these sins, these things only you have knowledge of…and no, I don’t find you entertaining, but very troubled.
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Kate
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 11:45 pm
It’s common practice among some sects to claim that they have “knowledge” of what is and is not a sin. That the Lord God has handed down a special understanding of morality and righteousness that no one else knows about (and, presumably, this sets their sect apart as the ones who REALLY follow God). THEY know it’s a sin because God has told THEM it’s a sin. Everyone else just hasn’t gotten the memos yet, or gotten the wrong memos. Don’t think it’s a sin? You must just not have knowledge of God’s will like we holy people do!
It’s “holier than thou” at its finest.
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SinghX
Sep. 20th, 2011 at 12:15 am
In the immortal words of Johnny Carson, “I did not KNOW that” as he fainted interest…wow, I’m dumb struck.
So, let me get this straight; some human creatures believe that the creator talks to them but, not all known creatures even though the creator created them. According to them, the creator won’t talk to just any creature, however WILL talk to certain creatures he/she/it created and give these creatures special attention…and those who get the “special” treatment get to be the gate-keepers who keep those other creatures from talking to their creator unless they go through them, via special underwear, jewelery, checkbooks, sex…
Ummm…me thinks I was very fortunate to not be held captive during my formative years by they cretins, er ah, creatures. Imagine, the creator only talks to certain creatures he/she/it created, but not others…ingenious!
So, this is how Intelligent Design works?
Thank you for clearing up this confusing issue; you have removed the negative cloud hanging over my head all day.
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A Walkaway
Sep. 20th, 2011 at 12:18 am
Does Hagee preach what the Bible states? Do you actually think the Bible was written in English?
There are concepts in Aramaic, Hebrew, and Greek that do not translate.
There are many words and phrases, of which we do not know what is actually meant, and the Bible contains the BEST GUESS.
The sentences referred to the “gotcha” scriptures regarding LGBT people – there are only five of them and the meaning is not known, although the best estimate of a couple of years ago was that it referred to the sexual use of young male cult prostitutes – because the use of them was degrading to them. Funny how “Good Christians” lock onto less than a handful of sentences (that they think are connected to homosexuality), when there are thousands about thousands of lines decrying and vilifying the rich and powerful for how they treat the poor.
Some of the Historical claims in the Bible have been disproved a long time ago, and the usual “God wrote it” shown to be fallacy even longer.
Seriously, what I read from you is not Christian at all… it sounds more like the Biblical depiction of the Pharisees (the “Good Christians” that have made our life a living hell for decades). You need to meditate on the scripture “I desire mercy and not sacrifice”, and consider how that applies in your case (and those who talk like you).
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SinghX
Sep. 20th, 2011 at 7:52 am
Help me clear up something else since it’s obvious I’m not ‘biblical’ according to my up-bringing…and according to the post we’re responding, will burn in hell with my hairdresser…I digress
What does it mean that Hagee’s church is not called a “christian” church in name, but a non-denominational house of worship; doesn’t that mean “all” creatures of the creator are invited? Why doesn’t he call where he preaches is hate, if it’s not Christian? If his church has no denomination then does he have all the world’s holy books on hand in case a bunch of people show up that are non-bible, doesn’t he have to serve them, too?
Very confusing…sigh,now I have another cloud hanging over my head…sigh…I feel like the little robot in “A Hitchhikers’ Guide to the Universe” (I kind of look like it, short, white…).
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Kate
Sep. 20th, 2011 at 11:02 am
It’s non-denominational Christian. They are affiliated with no official sect of Christianity, but just set up their own church, or a small group of churches unaffiliated with any one denomination.
It’s a catch-all that includes all churches not affiliated with a specific denomination (Baptist, Catholic, Lutheran, so on and so forth). They usually have no greater authority or structure such as bishops or ranking clergy, and instead have a pastor or two who takes care of everything.
My boyfriend is a non-d Christian (First Christian)…but then of course my boyfriend is also not cuckoo for cocoa puffs.
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A Walkaway
Sep. 20th, 2011 at 12:32 pm
I would add to what Kate says that “Non-Denominational” is a cover taken by dominionists (usually very hard-core) to cover up their associations and beliefs. Usually you will find them allied with the Assemblies of God (the worst of the worst – connected to and parent of the NAR). They’re trying to pass themselves off as not being connected to any specific denomination (actually trying to hide their Assemblies of God or other rabid dominionist connections) in an attempt to get people to visit and get caught.
Non-Denominational used to mean (many years back) that any kind of Christianity was welcome. It used to mean that the church didn’t adhere to any of the official branches of Christianity.
It doesn’t mean that any more.
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SinghX
Sep. 20th, 2011 at 3:27 pm
Being the devils advocate…(I’m going to hell with my hairdresser and you can’t stop me! Who wants to go around eternity looking like a mall rat?)…, does the definition mean that all faiths can have some sort of “non-denomination” branch? Sort of like a branch bank only independently owned and operated…could the Jews do a “nom-dom”, or the Buddhist, or the Jain, Sufi, Rastafarian? Can any faith have a “nom-dom” or is it reserved in name by Christianity only?
I’m serious. I wasn’t raised in the lifestyle of religion; my parents said, “You can pick any religion you want when your old enough to leave home. Good luck, we’re all counting on you”.
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Kate
Sep. 20th, 2011 at 5:34 pm
Buddhists definitely would have non-d groups. It’s such a wide spiritual path that a lot of temples are actually independent entities…and that’s just the form of Buddhism that values community and deity-worship. The actual meditative path varies from person to person.
Sufis might, but I doubt Jainism would have too much deviation from the official norm, since it’s such a strict way of life.
The broader a faith is, the more sub-sects it has, the greater the chances that it will include independent entities and non-d organizations. The smaller a faith is, the more solidified it tends to be, all packed into a single (or a small handful) recognizable path.
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A Walkaway
Sep. 20th, 2011 at 6:58 pm
Possibly. I’ve never spent much time thinking about it.
In Islam, there are the main divisions – Sunni vs Shiite. Then many subdivisions. Maybe a mosque could be neutral to the divisions. That would be non-denominational. You’d have to ask a well-read Muslim about it.
Ditto for the Jews, and for other religions.
In Native America, we have “pan-Indian” things, like Powwows. Some are considered more cultural and some (by the people) are considered more religious/spiritual. In that case, however, there is so much variety in belief and practice that saying that Native Americans follow a certain path isn’t accurate. I can think of at least 6 or 7 different overall religion families that exist on this continent, and each has its own branches. (Traditionally, differences in belief never were a cause of conflict, and the idea doesn’t make sense in a traditional sense.)
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MikeHypercube
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 9:18 pm
“Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels… yet have not love, I am nothing”
Whoever said these people don’t know their own Bible have it right (and it’s great to see so many thinking Christians on here). However, you have to ask, if God does not have the capacity to act or to constrain within the Church itself, where do His powers lie?
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Kate
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 10:03 pm
Free will, unfortunately, comes with several serious side effects. Among them is the ability to choose the good path, but instead freely choose the wrong one.
God’s power is more along the lines of redemption, love, forgiveness, afterlife stuff, creation of souls…He don’t meddle around when it comes to free agency. Unfortunately, that can result in gross amounts of human stupidity.
“On the first day, God created the universe. This was thought by many to be a bad idea.”
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Anarimus
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 11:12 pm
Yes we Secular Humanists have Daniel Radcliffe and they have Kirk Cameron. I think that’s where the truth is. Pagans have the better movies while the Christian movies are utter shit.
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Kate
Sep. 19th, 2011 at 11:47 pm
You both shat out on luck with Robert Pattinson, sorry to say. Boy looks like he’s constipated.
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Question Everything
Sep. 20th, 2011 at 12:00 am
Isn’t it typical for the egotistical maniacs that we are, to be convinced that our god, a human, created and controls the galaxies? Pretty convenient, wouldn’t you say?
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Travis Tilghman
Sep. 20th, 2011 at 12:23 am
“Because God allowed it to happen” Why? “Because God’s only excuse is that he does not exist.”
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Blue Wolf Bosh
Sep. 20th, 2011 at 10:07 am
He is nothing more than another hate mongering extremist using religion to spread fear, hate and intolerance exactly like al qaeda, the KKK, neo nazis and the Westboro Baptist Church.
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A Walkaway
Sep. 20th, 2011 at 12:35 pm
I wish it was that simple. When you realize that thousands (many thousands) of churches spew things like what he says every Sunday (and Saturday night and Wednesday night and maybe even other days of the week), you realize it’s more than the drunken ramblings of individuals.
It’s a movement and reminds a lot of scholars of the Biblical depiction of the Pharisees.
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A Walkaway
Sep. 21st, 2011 at 11:17 am
Well, I see the comment (saying in effect that Hagee was a rambling drunk and seeming to imply that he and preachers like him are an aberration rather than the norm for dominionist/fundamentalist churches) has been deleted.
Maybe Hagee was a rambling drunk… hypocrisy does seem to go with the territory. But the fact remains that his message is repeated in thousands of churches around this country (maybe hundreds of thousands), it’s scary.
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Corey Mondello
Sep. 20th, 2011 at 4:17 pm
conservative christianity ruling the republican – t-bag party of today!!!!!
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Anne
Sep. 21st, 2011 at 11:30 am
Isn’t he the minister whose endorsement John McCain was forced to reject back in 2008?
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Janet
Sep. 22nd, 2011 at 11:32 am
First, I want to say to “A Walkaway”: I am truly saddened by the way you were treated by those sic, misguided “holy rollers”…It’s despicable what kind of uglinesses are perpetrated against others by people who are hysterics to begin with, and then have been filled up with someone’s distorted view of what is “right and acceptable in the eyes of the Lord”…
I was raised Catholic, but I have always had my own way of thinking, perhaps influenced a bit by reading in corners of bookstores and in the peace of the public library…So I’m kind of an “expanded” semi-Catholic, with some of Anne Frank’s & John Lennon’s philosophy stirred in, along with other thinkers I admire…I do believe in pacifism, feminism & social justice…I just believe what I believe & if somebody don’t like it, too bad…I am anti-abuse of any kind, whether against children, the elderly, gays, other races or religions…I get angry & appalled by stupid people like Hagee saying stupid things and justifying it with religion…I guess I’m just Anti-Stupidity…
I had a mentally-handicapped brother: this beautiful boy with his perfect skin, dark eyes and chocolate-colored curls had the mind of a 3-year-old and could not speak, he had the heart of an angel…And trust me, he will be in heaven long before people like Hagee, Phelps & the other “Christians,” and I believe that on the day when the Lord comes for him, he will speak at last, and perhaps even sing…
I had a nun who singled me out for “special attetion,” meaning psychological cruelty, and who told the other students in my class that my brother was like a dog and had no soul” (My dad told her she was nuts, and my mother, who never cursed, told her to go to hell)…She allowed and abetted my ostracism from the others…It was almost as if I was the only “Jew” in the class…It wasn’t that I was bad, just different…This treatment took root, and it followed me through high school…The kids in my class didn’t really know why, just that I was an open target for torment…It was sanctioned bullying; the nuns simply “turned the other cheek”…These “brides of Christ” made my life hell…
I went in & out of going to church, and now since my father’s death, I do not go at all…The name of my parish is “Holy Cross,” believe it or not…When someone asks, I say, “I love the Lord, but I do NOT love Holy Cross…” It was Holy Cross who crushed my spirit, not the Church…they are two separate entities…I love & admire some of the great, blessed people who do the true work of the Lord, such as Mother Teresa, Pope John Paul II, Father Emil Kapaun, Father Damien, St. Bernadette and the children of Fatima, and other saints (who were actually just people like me who showed great courage); I also think Ghandi, Lennon & Anne Frank are saints, as are all those who “die to self” in the service of others, and who follow Jeseus’ commandment of “Love one another”…
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Janet
Sep. 22nd, 2011 at 11:46 am
And on the subject of Harry Potter, I think anything that gets kids to sit down and READ A BOOK instead of glazing out in front of the idiot box should be applauded!!!! J.K. Rowling is an amazing writer, she can really string words together (as my dad used to say)…She has a singular wit, she uses Latin and references other classic literature…And deep down it’s really a story of a boy’s courageous journey, and about love and friendship…Harry is more like a Christ-figure than a Satanic one…I bet Hagee never read a single word of any Harry Potter book…
Hey I was a devoted watcher of “Bewitched” & “Star Trek” when I was a kid and it didn’t mess me up…Humans did that…
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Ian MacLeod
Sep. 22nd, 2011 at 8:55 pm
Hagee and others of his ilk call themselves “fundamentalists,” and so do others, why, I don’t know. People seem to think they’re harking back to the way Jesus and the Apostles worshiped, and that’s utterly false. The earliest Christians made of themselves another sort of family. They shared resources, looked out for each other – and they preached. As per instructions from Jesus the first time the Apostles were sent out solo to preach, they offered the Gospel to those who would listen. Others who chose not to listen, they left alone. The first indication of Hagee being something other than ANY kind of Christian is this one thing: he insists that because he and his followers aren’t allowed to write their beliefs into secular law, they’re being prevented from worshiping as they’re supposed to! In other words, a refusal of their idea of Christianity is an attack on them and on Christianity. They are Dominionists.
According to Dominionism, when God gave man dominion over the earth and all in it, they were also instructed to take over every country, every government and run it all according to the most intolerant, violent and bloody-minded precepts out of the Old Testament. They can rationalize anything, turn things around so that stoning a recalcitrant teenager to death is the Christian version of “tough love.” They’re told to lie as necessary, to cheat for Jesus, in order to gain power. In fact, one writer says to use the laws of a free society to steal political power and gain tolerance for their beliefs, and then to use that power to deny freedom to all those who believed them. Pat Robertson is another Dominionist. And NONE of them are “fundamentalists,” any more than Southern Baptists or any of the rest of the evangelical denominations.
These people are hate mongers. Hatred of those who deny them by refusing to convert is one of their first tenets, always. They would start holy war after holy war if they cold – and like all those who start wars, people like Hagee would remain as far from the front as possible. If this is sounding familiar, the members of the GOP like Walker in Wisconsin who are doing their best to make the poor poorer and the old and sick dead and out of the way where they can’t waste money that rightfully belongs to themselves. They are blatant liars, thieves, hateful little souls who can’t stand to see anyone enjoying anything that doesn’t have their “Approved by Jesus” stamp on it. And like every other denomination I know of they cherry-pick the parts of the Bible that resonate with them; usually, the bloodiest parts.
Because they believe (or at least the followers do) that only Armageddon can presage the Second Coming, they’re doing all they can to jog God’s elbow and start it: WWIII, the Final Confrontation. Some really are that insane, and those would drop atomic bombs if they could on countries, or even counties in the u.S., who denied them. It’s my own belief that permitting a sick, destructive belief system like this one to exist in a society is suicide. They’ve stated their intent to take over the government and start executng the enemies of their God; they’re not kidding. And they are as far from anything Jesus ever preached as it’s possible to get.
Ian
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