I would like to be able to simply say Bryan Fischer sh*ts out of his mouth and leave it at that (it’s true, after all), but it would really be insufficient, because when stupid things are said they need to be countered. If you let the other side control the terms of the debate you also let them control its outcome. I’m a Heathen; I don’t do surrender.
So let’s give him a metaphorical punch in the nose instead and take look at Bryan Fischer’s latest verbal bowel movement. We going to the world of professional sports here, to the NFL – the National Football League – which for Bryan Fischer is also the world of Christianity. And there is some justification for this: professional football is full of conservative Christians. You can see them gathering and praying all over stadiums across on America on any given Sunday. That’s fine. It’s their religion; it’s none of my business. I’m there for the football, not the prayers.
Fischer says people hate Tim Tebow. No doubt some do. He’s one of those polarizing athletes that people either love or hate. Some people are just like that; you don’t find much middle ground. He’s not a great thrower, though he runs very well, and he wins but he wins ugly. He has a horrid throwing motion, for example, but so does Vince Young, who is also tough to beat in the fourth quarter of a game when his team is down.
But Fischer says that people hate Tebow not because of his questionable quarterbacking skills but because of his religion. They say people hate Tim Tebow because they hate Jesus.
Watch the video from Right Wing Watch:
“The reason that they hate Tim Tebow is that they hate Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ lives in Tim Tebow; is manifest in Tim Tebow; has demonstrated his life is being manifest in his mortal body and people hate it. They hate Tim Tebow because they hate the Jesus Christ that’s in him and that is being manifest in him. This is clearly to me evidence that this world lies in the grip of the evil one so I think Tim Tebow is a guy I think that we need to continue to pray for.”
Most readers no doubt know by now that I am a Heathen, a polytheist. I think it is equally evident that most football fans are Christians, since most of America’s population continues to be Christian. But I am also a football fan. I play fantasy football. I watch NFL Network – dare I say it? – religiously – during the football season and around draft time. I have played Madden and other computer or console football games and I have played Strat-O-Matic card football games. I used to collect football trading cards. I simply love NFL football. Love it.
And I am a huge Tim Tebow fan. Do I like his anti-choice stance? No, of course not. Do I like hearing about Jesus all the time? No. But what does that have to do with football? The guy is exciting to watch. No matter how boring the game may seem, things happen – unexpectedly. And he wins. The Denver Broncos were 1 and 4 before Tebow took over. They are 5-1 since, evening their season out. Putting them in the race for a playoff berth, perhaps even winning their division. I mean, who expected this? And it’s because of Tim Tebow.
If you watch a lot of football shows like I do, you see a lot of criticism of Tim Tebow by analysts, including former NFL players – quarterbacks included. Jake Plummer is one – a former NFL quarterback. Plummer said, almost seeming to speak to Fischer’s complaint,
“I think he’s a winner, and I respect that about him. I think that when he accepts the fact that we know that he loves Jesus Christ, then I think I’ll like him even better. I don’t hate him because of that. I just would rather not have to hear that every single time he takes a good snap or makes a good handoff. Like, you know, I understand, dude, where you’re coming from. . . . But he is a baller.”
Kurt Warner, a former Super Bowl quarterback and well known conservative Christian, is one of those who have been critical of Tebow. By Bryan Fischer’s logic, Kurt Warner, conservative Christian, must hate Jesus. How does that work, exactly? I have to imagine Warner would take issue with Fischer’s blanket statement. In fact, Kurt Warner, who now says Tebow’s play has won him over, and a class-act if there ever was one, thinks that Tebow should tone the religious rhetoric down a bit, and let his actions speak for him. Warner told the Arizona Republic:
“There’s almost a faith cliche, where (athletes) come out and say, ‘I want to thank my Lord and savior,’ Warner told the Republic. “As soon as you say that, the guard goes up, the walls go up, and I came to realize you have to be more strategic.
“The greatest impact you can have on people is never what you say, but how you live…. You set the standard with your actions. The words can come after.”
This is sound advice for any human being. It is sound advice for a Heathen and advice I have given myself. Actions speak louder than words. Don’t talk about being a Christian or a Heathen: BE a Christian; BE a Heathen.
Which brings us back to being a Heathen and a football fan. I don’t hate Jesus. I have lots of books about Jesus – the historical Jesus. What he said, what he might have said and most importantly, what he might have meant. The word hate is ridiculous: I didn’t know him so I can hardly hate him. He died a long time before I was born. I can no more hate Jesus can I can any other dead Jewish prophet; any more than I can hate Harald Hardrada or Alexander the Great or Julius Caesar. My seven-year-old uses the word “hate” like Bryan Fischer, but he’s seven. What’s Fischer’s excuse?
Does Bryan Fischer really think that other people look at Tim Tebow and see Jesus? I don’t see it. Jesus was a Jewish guy. Tebow isn’t. Tebow plays football; Jesus was an itinerant preacher. When I look at Tim Tebow I see the quarterback, that football player that he is. I am certain that is what most NFL fans see when they watch him. They are not seeing Jesus made manifest. They are seeing completions and touchdowns made manifest. They’re not at all the same thing. And the biggest dig against Tebow is that he is not making those things manifest enough to win a playoff game or a superbowl. He is barely making them manifest enough to win games at all.
The real problem here isn’t people hating Tebow because they hate Jesus. The real problem is Fischer’s hate. There may be people who hate Tebow because they hate his repeated public expressions of belief. It is something you can quickly sour on. I try to ignore it, personally. I don’t care what other people believe as long as they are not forcing it on me. But no more worry about Tebow’s religious beliefs than I do those of any actor or musician. I am not “into” them because of their beliefs or lack thereof, but because of their acting, because of the music they make. It’s the same with athletes.
They can form all the prayer circles they want before or after games, or when players are injured. I’m not in it; I’m not being required to be in it. I can get up and get a snack or go to the bathroom or turn the TV off, or flip open a book until they are done. Yeah, I’d be happier if they skipped it altogether while the cameras are rolling but hey, I’d rather do without Chris Collinsworth too. I still watch football.




goddess
Dec. 1st, 2011 at 8:12 am
I don’t hate Tim Tebow because he’s a Christian. I hate Tim Tebow because he’s a self-righteous jackass.
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Chris
Dec. 5th, 2011 at 1:39 am
Your an idiot. You do hate him because he is religious. We’re all self righteous jackasses. You think a philanthropist does what he/she does ONLY to help others? It’s because it makes them feel good which is selfish. You hate him because he flashes his religion around and flaunts it to the public like it’s the only religion to worship. I don’t hate him because he’s an asshole like everyone else…I hate him because he is irrational. God isn’t flowing through Tebow. Science is. And why is it so bad to hate a fictional character? Everyone hates Lord Voldermort right?
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claudia higginbotham
Dec. 1st, 2011 at 8:31 am
Don’t forget that Tim Tebow is a very young man. No matter how rich and talented he is, he is a man in his 20s. I cut him a lot of slack for that. I have no objection whatsoever to his demonstrations of his faith and I certainly don’t hate him for it. I get stupid emails all the time claiming I hate Jesus if I don’t pass them on. I delete them and go on my way. If Tim Tebow is successful in his profession, I will be happy for him. His religion is not even on my radar for things to get upset over.
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Paul
Dec. 1st, 2011 at 8:44 am
…and the Lord did sayest unto the players of the oblong swine ball:
“Paintest thyself before the game; array in finery, and daub upon thy face passages and paragraphs so others may know you are holy”
It’s all in there, folks.
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Hrafnkell Haraldsson
Dec. 1st, 2011 at 8:56 am
I didn’t have space in my article to mention that Paul did not write Ephesians – the writing style is different but the theology is also different. If Tebow wants to quote a forgery on his face, that’s between him and his god, but it’s a point that should be made.
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SinghX
Dec. 1st, 2011 at 9:11 am
The core issue is the false equivalency; if Tee-bowel is “the” embodiment of the sky-god’s son, then all Christians technically “are” by default and therefore you can’t say anything about their behavior; belief trumps all.
You can’t disagree with them or find them to be ugly jack-ass Neanderthals BECAUSE, they are more than mere mortals; they’re special, your not. And, because this “believer” is the embodiment of the son of a sky-god, he gets more money than anyone else…therefore, money is not the root of all evil and Satan can’t touch him, no tag backs…the whole thing is absurd!
But what bothers me even more is the trickle down of all this “praying on the field cuz the sky-god likes the Jesus-lovers better–what is this saying to the kids coming up who want to just play the game? This very story has been reflected in a movie, “School Ties” where the best HS player is a Jew (Brandon Fraiser), but has to hide who he is amongst the white, nice, polite christian people or he wouldn’t be allowed on their field, in their homes and most of all, not dating their daughters! I mean, only a “christian” can chant “kill-kill-blood-makes-the-grass-grow”, but, not a Jew!! Whoa, that would be blasphemy! No double standard here…
The attitude of “accepting” Tee-bowel’s behavior as some how “normal” is pushing the country, just like in politics, further and further to the right. Folks, it’s all about the behavior, not about the belief…as soon as we allow the belief to be “We’re #1″ over the behavior of a person, we’re screwed…”Kill!Kill!-the-blood-of-OUR-savior-makes-the-grass-grow” (Leviticus).
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Lou Anne Johnson
Dec. 1st, 2011 at 9:35 am
I am a die hard Cowboy Fan so I have no feeling about Tim but as a Christ Follower it is not Christian behavior to exclude anyone because of their religion .We are to be ambassadors for Christ in how we live speak and treat people … Gandi said ” I like your Christ , I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike Christ ” . It is sad but true that too often we offend instead of mend in the name of Christ.I pry everyday that we do better and Brandon you are welcome at my house anytime :)
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SinghX
Dec. 1st, 2011 at 3:07 pm
…”We are to be ambassadors for Christ in how we live speak and treat people … Gandi said ” I like your Christ , I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike Christ ” …
We all need to show our gracious, graceful, grateful and conscientious aspect of our spirituality beings to all; to be an ambassador is a noble cause. However…
In Christianity, there is no Bodhisattva “Oath” (Buddhist philosophy of liberation) for Christians that says or means,
“We, all of us as Christians, must rise to the occasion to be ambassadors/Christ-like in our daily actions BEFORE each and every last one of us is allowed to go to heaven”…or you come back (not hell) and do it over and over until you get it right.
Nope, not Christians; ya’ just whisper your sins to someone at your last breath and you get into heaven, no questions or do overs. Lucky you…
BTW,Gandhi, as a Hindu, was not always a really good one, to say the least; he was terrible-horrible to his wife/kids. IMHO, he was a bit of a hypocrite in terms of speaking up toward another man’s religious behavior while acting poorly toward his own kin.
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Chris
Dec. 5th, 2011 at 1:42 am
You do know your faith has damned Gandhi to hell right? You can tell me you put your faith in god to get you through the day, but I know when you cross the street you look both ways.
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Shiva (Moderator)
Dec. 1st, 2011 at 9:14 am
when it comes to sports, sports and religion are one of the funniest things there is. The boxer who wins always thanks Jesus Christ. The boxer who loses is let off to the dressing room mumbling something about what happened? Winners always thank Jesus Christ, losers do not thank anyone for the chance to even be in the game. by the way, the chance to be in the game is just as important as winning. Do you only have talent if you win?
I don’t follow football so I don’t know Tim Tebow from Adam. but I can tell you that I am totally uninterested in a football players religion or believes. And that goes for any other sport. And you are absolutely right as soon as they athlete starts with a religious stuff I mentally just pick up my pop, turn around and walk away. Not interested thank you
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John
Dec. 2nd, 2011 at 10:45 am
ll this is fine about ignoring his actions but the last Denver game I watched the cameras were constantly focusing on Tebow even when he was on the bench. By the way if they would be wise to thank Denver’s defense other than Jesus.Without the defense there would be no last minute come backs.I don’t hate the man but I get annoyed for all the credit he gets for winning games.
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brainwise
Dec. 1st, 2011 at 9:42 am
I dislike the double-standard inherent in “giving Christ the glory” for touchdowns and team victories. I mean, if the Big-Guy-In-The-Sky and the Son-of-Big-Guy-In-The-Sky are responsible for the good stuff that happens in a game, why aren’t players blaming the Devil or pointing at the ground whenever their team throws an interception or loses a game? :D
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Hrafnkell Haraldsson
Dec. 1st, 2011 at 10:03 am
Similar to the question asked of Santorum at the last debate when he claimed winning his seat gave him a constituency of “One” (God) but apparently losing that seat did not mean the opposite
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brainwise
Dec. 1st, 2011 at 10:19 am
Rick Santorum for Stay-At-Home-Dad!
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Brown cow
Dec. 1st, 2011 at 11:42 am
That reminds of an incident 2 years ago. I broke my ankle badly and had surgery to put in plates and screws to hold everything together. I had a few visitors (friends of my parents) who would make the rounds visiting people. One lady said ” We prayed that the surgery would be a success so I know you’re very greatful to god” I said “I’m more greatful that the surgeon didn’t sleep through his med class courses and knew what he was doing” Didn’t go over real well.
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Reynardine
Dec. 1st, 2011 at 12:21 pm
Having known a number of people from the Near and Mid East in my salad days, I’d call it likely that Jesus would have enjoyed playing the odd scratch game of soccer, but would by no means have been bulky enough for American football. As for asking your daddy to help you play…not, er…kosher.
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Macheath
Dec. 1st, 2011 at 1:02 pm
I don’t like Tebow because his style of play is setting the position of NFL quarterback 60 years. I don’t like Tebow because his style of play is forcing his own team to play a college style, and I’m against anything which makes pro football more like the college game. And most importantly, I don’t like Tebow because I’m a Raiders fan.
For the record, I’m an ex-Catholic who loves Kurt Warner. The guy won me two fantasy football titles!
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Sally
Dec. 1st, 2011 at 2:02 pm
I really don’t think God has time to worry about who wins a football game played by self-righteous and overpaid children. That Lions idiot Suh ought to be banned from the game. So should Vick. God cares far more about behavior than winning a stupid game that only benefits the owners of the team. Hoe else does the game of football do anything positive for society? It takes kids out of the ghetto, gives them access to a big school that many of them are not ready for, and then turns them into millionaires at 21…where they are taken advantage of by agents, owners, and even fans. Yeah, God is all over that.
The right is using Tebow as a poster child for their ‘get rid of birth control’ movement, and he is going right along with them.
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Anne
Dec. 1st, 2011 at 2:15 pm
Kurt Warner is spot on when he says it’s how one lives and not one’s words that count the most. Since I’ve never watched Tebow and know next to nothing about him, I can only say that I don’t judge anyone for his or her faith. But it does get rather tiresome to hear folks pontificate all the time on how they believe. It can become a form of exhibitionism in its own way.
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jason karov
Dec. 1st, 2011 at 3:07 pm
Professional sports are just one of the “sacred cows” of the christians in America. Also in that hallowed group are the Nascar drivers and fans, anyone in the military, any Republican politicans, and of course all the pastors, preachers, and priests.
No criticism of them will be taken seriously, and if you aren’t actually enthusiastic and supportive of these groups, you are viewed by many as being retarded or evil.
It’s why I’m leaving this f*cked up theocratic nation as soon as my aging parents have gone to their reward.
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SinghX
Dec. 1st, 2011 at 3:23 pm
I don’t see any of them wearing a “Livestrong” wrist band or taking their kids to ride in a local Tour, do you?
…Lance won 7 years in a roll in one of the most brutal sports known to mankind, and, he set the record after surviving cancer. I don’t ever recall his doing a victory lap for god.
…nor do I recall any Ironman/Women doing prayer circles for “themselves”…
IMHO, I would like to see all professional athletes paid by their BPM’s during their sporting event; the higher and longer you maintain it, the more you get paid! (bu’bye pro golf…)
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theButterFly
Dec. 1st, 2011 at 5:35 pm
i think that the Kurt Warner comment that you quoted speaks to the heart of the matter the best. I do think that because Tim Tebow’s religious views have been so prominently featured it has caused people to put up walls against him for reasons other then football. Whatever the subject, I don’t think people enjoy feeling like they are being preached at. Especially in a forum where it is not expected or perhaps even out of line. I think this is the trap Tebow has fallen into, and I don’t think that it is necessarily his own doing. I dislike him, because I never want to see the Broncos win, but I have to admit that all the extra god stuff has even raised my shields toward him more.
I was raised Roman catholic, and I always felt that the parable of the priest who goes up and makes a big show of his faith at the front of the temple while the humble man sits quietly in the back is the best example of Christ’s own instruction on how to properly display ones faith.
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Shiva (Moderator)
Dec. 1st, 2011 at 5:37 pm
I think your parable is the best example of how the christian religion is supposed to be practiced
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Chris
Dec. 5th, 2011 at 1:35 am
Faith…isn’t that another word for ignorance or irrationality? Have any of you actually read the WHOLE bible? If you have and still believe it I pray for you…you see what I did there? It’s ironic.
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dan
Dec. 5th, 2011 at 1:56 pm
I find it ironic we only need to read the posts here to understand that Haraldsson is wrong. The posts say otherwise and that actually Mr. Fischer is right, the ones who hate Christ hate his followers. You Christians should know better, its an undeniable fact, always has been, always will be. The cross is offensive to the non believer. When you see a Christian being attacked for his belief remember it comes from the father of lies. Isn’t it just funny how self righteousness pours out of these posts as they condemn someone they assume is self righteous.
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Shiva (Moderator)
Dec. 5th, 2011 at 3:25 pm
Is this the first contact you have had with Fisher?
You might want to read m ore on him, he is a bigot of the first order. I am an atheist and the cross is not offensive to me, simply because to me its just a cross.
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Anne
Dec. 5th, 2011 at 3:33 pm
There are plenty of Christians who lead exemplary lives according to the directives of Jesus Christ. Mr. Fischer is not among them, because he is a hypocrite of the first order. He is one of the intolerant, self-righteous ones that prompted Ghandi to say that he liked our Christ but not our Christians. The so-called Christians who believe in further enriching the wealthy at the expense of everyone else and whose idea of being pro-life begins at conception but ends at birth have made a mockery of Christianity. For him to equate dislike of a human being to hatred of Jesus Christ is both arrogant and ignorant.
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Sarah Jones
Dec. 5th, 2011 at 4:52 pm
I didn’t get that anyone was offended by the cross itself, but by its public display. But what are you claiming about the people who are offended? It sounds like you are saying that they hate Christ for they are non-believers. That’s quite an indictment (as pointed out, many forms of Christianity say your faith should not be on display hence you have denounced people as non-believers when in reality, they might simply believe in a different form of Christianity than you), but you go further to infer that they are evil given the way you reference the “father of lies” (the devil). SO are we to believe that you are a non-judgmental person who comes easily to the conclusion that people you haven’t met are the devil?
And you denounce others for being self-righteous, is that correct?
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dan
Dec. 5th, 2011 at 5:25 pm
If public displays offend, then its an offense, is it not?
It’s not complicated. Its the offended that usually are the intolerant.
As I stated to Anne, I infer nothing its what Christ states.
Fact, everyone is judgmental just read this article and its posts! Judgement is part of life and needs to be for our survival. It should be done in a courteous, loving and fair way.
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Shiva (Moderator)
Dec. 5th, 2011 at 6:19 pm
You said the cross offends the non believer. No one else. But then again I bet that a muslim display would offend you.
Your statement was judgmental.
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dan
Dec. 5th, 2011 at 5:03 pm
Anne You make many accusations you cannot verify. Intolerant, hypocrite, enriching the wealthy? Sounds like you got an ax to grind. Is it not Christ who said in Matthew 12:30 if your not with him your against him. Is He self righteous? Liking or disliking makes no difference. If your apathetic your against him.
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Shiva (Moderator)
Dec. 5th, 2011 at 5:19 pm
it’s pretty obvious that you are a follower of Bryan Fisher. I guess we can only assume that you are the same as him. We are against Bryan Fischer because he is not what religion is. He does not teach a viable religion
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dan
Dec. 5th, 2011 at 5:27 pm
What is viable religion?
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Shiva (Moderator)
Dec. 5th, 2011 at 6:16 pm
A religion that does not segregate people out of it. Fishers brand of religion on includes people who are reborn into HIS cult. If you are a regular church going person, he does not include you in his religion. Indians are not included and neither are democrats.
I am sure if you are a follower of a “normal” religion your religion does not keep people out of your church.
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JJ
Dec. 6th, 2011 at 3:18 am
WOW – religious expression is prevalent in sports – catch some old clips of Mohammed Ali praising Allah after a successful fight – many more to choose from. So do I want to see it – no; but the hypocrisy is evident.
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