I’ve related before what the Pagan philosopher Porphyry said about arguing with what I’m sure were fundamentalist Christians: “It is easier to write words on water than try to use argument on a Christian.”
The thing is, and Porphyry knew this first hand back in the 3rd century CE, you can’t win an argument with these people because they have an argument in their pockets for everything. In Porphyry’s day they called people like this “sophists”, people who were not concerned with truth but with power, people who used linguistic sleight of hand and fallacious arguments to achieve their ends.
Remember what I said yesterday about the First Amendment providing opportunities to people to say catastrophically stupid things? We have plenty of modern sophists running around. The U.S. House of Representatives is full of them. We have two more running for president and vice president on the Republican ticket. They pop up so fast we could start a game of “whack a sophist” that would never end.
We are introduced to another by OneNewsNow: Jan Markell is the founder and director of Olive Tree Ministries, Talk about deception! This gruop pretends to be Jewish Messianists. But what they actually are is Christian messianists (rather like that other deceptive Evangelical group, Jews for Jesus).
Here’s a simple rule of thumb: Jewish messianists are still waiting for a messiah. Jews who have accepted Jesus as Messiah are not Jews but Christians.
So take it with a grain of salt when Jan Markell, founder and director of this group says the Democratic Party is “corrupt” and morally “bankrupt.” Well, at least we are not pretending to be something we’re not.
She says
“I find it difficult to believe honestly that God would reward a political party that not only denies Him three times, but also just so seriously turns their back on Israel. So, this party is a corrupt, bankrupt party.”
Gosh, we turned our back on Israel? That’s factually untrue, of course, but let’s examine her claim: Did I miss an important passage in the U.S. Constitution, Jan, that says we can’t turn our back on Israel?
I don’t remember such a clause. I don’t remember an injunction of that sort by any of the Founding Fathers in either the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution, that the United States is bound body and soul to Israel.
Oh, its in the Bible! Oh! Well, good thing the Bible isn’t the law of the land in the United States of America. You might have heard of the U.S. Constitution, Jan. Read it.
But here’s the best part: “With that in mind, Markell suggests an Obama victory means only one thing.
‘If God rewards them with a victory, then I have to believe it’s a further judgment on us, because I can’t imagine God being on the side of this kind of darkness’ she says. ‘I just can’t!’”
Now it’s probably not fair of me to compare one delusional liar with another but remember what Sarah Palin said on Election Day 2008, that God would do the right thing for America by elected her (Esther reborn) and her somewhat senile senior partner, Jon McCain, to run things here? Remember how God gave us Barack Obama instead?
Boy, I guess they’re covered now. If they give us Mitt Romney, God has spoken.
If they give us Barack Obama God has spoken.
The one means he’s given us four years grace, I suppose, four years to further “F” things up at home and abroad in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. The other means God has lost his patience and is condemning us to four more years of Barack Obama.
Gods above and below, I know which one I’m choosing! Give me four more years of Barack Obama. Look, it’s an easy choice: anything people like Jan Merkel want, I want the opposite. What they call heaven I’ll call helheim and steer clear.
But hey, remember I mentioned Porphyry complaining about arguing with these guys? Get a load of this little exchange in the comments section of OneNewsNow’s coverage. Tom tries valiantly but he missed Porphyry’s warning:
Tom • 12 hours ago −
It’s all you people wearing clothes made from two fibres (Leviticus 19:19 and Deuteronomy 22:11) who will get us killed. God can’t stand it when you mix and match
Way to go Tom! Oh! Look out! Incoming!
Brian M • 12 hours ago • parent
That command doesn’t apply to us. We also don’t have to sacrifice in the temple in Jerusalem. For one thing, there is no temple in Jerusalem. Do not murder is one for us.
It doesn’t apply to you???? How does it now apply to you? Did I miss the part where Jesus said divine fashion rules no longer apply? Like Poryphry said, you just can’t win. Brian probably doesn’t have a nice long beard either, would be my guess (Leviticus 19:27).
“The Olive Tree Ministries founder,” OneNewsNow tells us “adds that she trembles at the thought of God’s judgment on the nation.”
I tremble at the thought of fundamentalist sophistry!
How many times have we heard that? God’s judgment on the nation…This god guy has put up with such shit for 2,000 years from his supposed followers without actually doing more than threaten. I’m of the opinion that after 2000 years, we shouldn’t expect to hear anything else from him. I mean, even his son, Jesus, was fooled about the whole coming Kingdom of God thing.
It’s no wonder, given his track record, that Jan Merkel wants to hedge her bets. I would too. I mean, if there is one guy in the whole universe I would not want to put money on for punctuality, it’s the Christian God. Just look at his Bible. It’s supposedly his literal word and its so chock full of errors and contradictions and geographical mistakes…I mean, God created the planet and doesn’t even know it’s geography? C’mon!
Fundamentalist Christians are worshiping an idiot and they want us to worship an idiot too. Let’s face it: if their god had a job, he’d be fired. Helheim, if God wanted to punish us for some imagined transgression, he probably couldn’t find us anyway!
So sleep well tonight. You’re in no danger from the Christian God. If he’s perfect he’s not going to act like his follows (aka a three-year-old throwing a tantrum) and if he’s imperfect, he’s going to shoot and miss. The only thing you have to fear is his insane followers who wouldn’t know the truth if it fell on them and who, unfortunately, if they bring down the roof of the world, will bring it down on all of us. What happened in Egypt was just a foretaste.
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Reynardine
Sep. 14th, 2012 at 8:18 am
Sophistry is the art of specious argument, practiced by religious and secular charlatans alike. I believe that when this art is practiced towards affirmin a predetermined conclusion dictated by one’s religion, it is called casuistry. Maybe, though, I am thinking about a genus of trees, imitating conifers but not related to them, that is native to the Southern Hemisphere.
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SinghX
Sep. 14th, 2012 at 8:55 am
Here is a definition and example…no, trees aren’t involved:)
“Sophistry is tricking someone by making a seemingly clever argument, such as telling your mom you must have candy before dinner because if you don’t you’ll die and then the protein and vitamins won’t get eaten at all.
Sophistry is a word that you hear very little in contemporary life, perhaps because it makes anyone who uses it sound like a Puritanical fanatic insisting that something like gum chewing is the path to the devil. But we are certainly still surrounded by examples of sophistry––just turn on the TV and watch an ad. You’ll see plenty.”
(source: vocabulary.com)
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Nefer
Sep. 14th, 2012 at 9:57 am
Casuarinas?! And yes, I think you are correct in that casuistry is an unsound argument regarding a moral/ethical/religious issue, whereas sophistry would not need to have the moral element.
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Hrafnkell Haraldsson
Sep. 14th, 2012 at 10:24 am
Sophistry is the relevant accusation here; the Pagan philosopher Celsus (turn of the 2nd/3d centuries CE) accuses the Christians of sophistry (The True Doctrine)
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RJ
Sep. 14th, 2012 at 8:46 am
Whattaya mean?! What about all the earthquakes? And the tsunamis? And what about dead blackbirds falling from the sky all over the midwest? What about those, smart guy? Are you insinuating those were all just acts of nature and not god’s judgment?
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Deborah
Sep. 15th, 2012 at 12:52 am
Why not?
In fact, a lot of people believe that God does NOT punish people (which blows their management/control meme), and that tsunamis and earthquakes and diseases are, yes, just nature.
If you don’t think they are just nature, how do YOU then explain an innocent baby, born healthy, who dies before kindergarten of the most brutal of cancers? Why would the all-loving God do that?
If you think he would, you are admitting that your GOD is mean and imperfect and punishes those who deserve no punishment. If you believe your God is all-loving and doesn’t punish people, then you accept that the reason bad things happen to good people is ……… nature.
Plain and simple. And your choice. So, how do you choose?
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Deborah
Sep. 15th, 2012 at 12:55 am
I should clarify… the “management/control meme” used by too many religious zealot/leaders.
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SinghX
Sep. 14th, 2012 at 8:47 am
“…Fundamentalist Christians are worshiping an idiot and they want us to worship an idiot too…”
And what kind of “idiot” gave us “rainbows” as a symbol of uniry, and then, threw a “hissy fit” over men acting out against other men, deciding to wipe out an entire planet with a flood to satisfy his hissy fit? What did the fish, the trees, the ants have to do with two men fighting in the street?
What kind of “judgement” or “hissy fit” will THEIR god throw down this time?… so,what happened to the “hissy fit” after the Civil war or Hitler, or Pol Pot, or Stalin all spreading “evil darkness”? What happened to those “hissy fits”; weren’t men acting out against one another? I don’t recall any floods to wipe out the planet over those atrocities…
Oh…OOhhh, I get it (hush and whisper)–it’s because there’s a black man making “decisions” that have global impact…and-and, he has a women, who once wanted universal health care for all, helping him…
Ohhhh, now I get it! How could I have forgotten, over-looked such important facts? My bad…
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ilegal
Sep. 14th, 2012 at 11:50 am
i do believe god wanted the whitemans reign to end otherwise he would of never allow a blackman to be elected and in 2016. we will have PRESIDENTA HILLARY CLINTON and VICE PRESIDENT MICHELL OBAMA any bets white man you are finished get used to it and get over it
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Richard
Sep. 14th, 2012 at 1:17 pm
Once one has “faith” in an invisible supreme being, any other nonsensical ( no sense) belief is possible. All superstitious explanations for the world conceived by primitive minds. Nice fairy tales for unsophisticated adults.
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A Walkaway
Sep. 14th, 2012 at 5:23 pm
You do know that there are a lot of people who have ““faith” in an invisible supreme being” who support the freedom to not believe, who consider it wrong to try to force religion on others, and who, for instance, are scientists and/or scholars?
That being the case, don’t you think that insulting what are truly your allies in the fight against theocracy is a bit unsophisticated and lacking sense?
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Brigita Petrutis
Sep. 14th, 2012 at 5:05 pm
un-sophist-icated: naive?
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A Walkaway
Sep. 14th, 2012 at 11:11 pm
Hraf, do you remember the passage in the OT where there is someone traveling with a prophet. They stay at a rich man’s house and his wall, which had fallen, had miraculously rebuilt itself. Then they stayed with a poor man and the poor man’s cow died that night.
When asked, the “prophet” told some story about the wall containing treasure and that God was going to take the poor man’s wife but took the cow instead.
It seems that the “God” of the “Good Christians” is like that – helping those who don’t need it (especially the cruel and the rich) and hurting those who DO need help (such as the sick, the disabled, and/or the poor), while claiming that helping is hurting and hurting is helping.
Could it be that “God’s Judgment” is really a good thing and “God’s Blessing” is really a bad thing?
I’d believe it of all of Christianity except that such a “God” doesn’t jive with what I’ve read and learned (but it IS the “God” I’ve observed throughout life).
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