It is amusing to me that it is news that James Dobson, the guy who founded Focus on the Family, admits that the National Day of Prayer Task Force prayed for Obama’s defeat. The headline ought to be that their prayers were completely ineffectual. Now atheists will be laughing and saying, “duh!” but there are plenty of religious people out there who do not think prayer is a completely wasted endeavor.
We could draw any number of conclusions from the failure of their prayers. Imprecatory prayers have become very popular in right-wing religious circles and they have also been ineffectual. Obama still lives. You can’t pray the man to death.
So either their God likes Obama, their God doesn’t care one way or another about such mundane human concerns, or their God is without any power to effect change with regard to the office of the presidency. Those seem the most obvious answers, though as we shall see, Dobson was able to find one more amenable to his belief system.
The lesson will be lost on conservative Christians, of course. Though of seeming iron-inflexibility on moral and cultural matters, they are as flexible as can be when it comes to explaining or explaining away the actions/inactions of the divine.
The ancients in the centuries before the blight of monotheism thought a great deal about prayer as well, and they continued to think about it through the early, so-called Christian centuries. Marcus Aurelius, a stoic philosopher as well as an emperor, offered these thoughts in the private journal that came to be known to history as the Meditations:
Either the gods have no power or they have power. If, then, they have no power, why dost thou pray to them? But if they have power, why dost thou not pray for them to give thee the faculty of not fearing any of the things which thou fearest, or of not desiring any of the things which thou desirest, or not being pained at anything, rather than pray that any of these things should not happen or happen? for certainly if they can co-operate with men, they can co-operate for these purposes. But perhaps thou wilt say, the gods have placed them in thy power. Well, then, is it not better to use what is in thy power like a free man than to desire in a slavish and abject way what is not in thy power? And who has told thee that the gods do not aid us even in the things which are in our power? Begin, then, to pray for such things, and thou wilt see. One man prays thus: How shall I be able to lie with that woman? Do thou prays thus: How shall I not desire to lie with her? Another prays thus: How shall I be released from this? Another prays: How shall I not desire to be released? Another thus: How shall I not lose my little son? Thou thus: How shall I not be afraid to lose him? In fine, turn thy prayers this way, and see what comes.
In another place he wrote, “A prayer of the Athenians: Rain, rain, O dear Zeus, down on the ploughed fields of the Athenians and on the plains.- In truth we ought not to pray at all, or we ought to pray in this simple and noble fashion. ”
We might observe from this two things: that the morality of Marcus Aurelius was superior to that of today’s conservative Christians. There is nothing noble about imprecatory prayer. As he said, why not pray for the strength to endure rather than overturn? And that Macus Aurelius was himself unsure of the efficacy of prayer.
Which brings us to the prayers of Texas Governor Rick Perry for rain to end Texas’ drought. Rick Perry and his fellow conservative Christians are so certain that prayer works that they insist prayer ended the drought even when it is visibly obvious that the drought continues. Other conservative Christians have tried to pray away abortion, which also clearly has not worked, for the simple reason that not enough American voters want to ban abortion.
It isn’t at all about what God wants. The Founders did not factor God into their equations. God, as I have said here before, does not get a vote. You do. I do. Other Americans of eligible age and citizenship, do. God does not.
It is not, in short, part of the American democratic process, to allow God to set aside the voice of the people when it comes to their leaders. The Constitution forbids God this power.
Now of course, conservative Christians will react to this assertion with outrage. No man-made law can set aside the will of God.
How then do they explain the failure of their prayers? Did God abide by the Constitution? Did man-made law pre-empt any action he might have taken to unseat President Obama on Election Day?
And if not that, then why? As Marcus Aurelius said, did God lack the requisite power to act on our presidential election?
We might ask ourselves of these prayers whether, assuming those who pray actually believe in their efficacy, why they vote at all? Isn’t it sufficient to simply pray Romney into the White House, and stay at home, out of the rain and all those long lines?
Why enact anti-abortion legislation? Just prayer it away. The same with Marriage Equality.
Perhaps these prayers just help them cope. It is a form of therapy. Susan Kwelecki writes that “Religions promise relief from the spectrum of human ills – hunger, sickness, guilt, death, military defeat, crime, and so forth.”[1] We can add to that “presidents you don’t like.”
She writes that other religious rituals also mitigate against suffering, “including prayer, worship services, rites of passage, and confessional and purification ceremonies.” She includes magic as well,[2] which ought to make Wiccans happy. Perhaps a nakiehappypagandanceoflove can drive away the evil monotheists and their true/false religious distinctions once and for all.
Eugen Schoenfeld wrote in 1985 of the inhibitory force of religion, which, he says, “produces an opposition to social and political change” but also “a sense of commitment and loyalty to the ruling elite.”[3]
Okay, so we know where the wheels came off for Barack Obama. He represented not only political but social change. Can’t have that. And loyalty promptly went right out the window. Religion, writes Schoenfeld, has been shown to have a “conservatizing” influence, which is ironic given that religion is constantly changing and evolving, and subject to forces of syncretization.
Schoenfeld quotes Durkheim (1947) as saying, “The destiny of the State, was closely bound up with the fate of the gods worshiped at its altars. If the state suffers reverses, then the prestige of its gods declined in the same measure – and vice versa.”[4]
We can clearly see the enduring influence of Pagan thought on modern Christian thought. All we here about again and again is the destiny of the state, expressed in the modern form as American exceptionalism. Obama, being of not only the wrong race to be part of the ruling elite, but allegedly of the wrong religion, affects not only the prestige of the State but the prestige of the Christian God, who supposedly chose America for a special, divine role in the world.
Stark (1966), Shoenfeld further points out, stressed the sacred nature of the ruler, who was either a god himself or a representative of God, “or his steward.”[5] How can Barack Obama be a representative of God, the only God who could possibly be identified with America (!) when he is some sort of Kenyan anti-colonialist Muslim???
No wonder they’re praying their asses off.
What an unhappy muddle for conservatives. And they are locked into their misery with no way out. Their reality bubble circumvents our shared reality matrix and locks them into an endless cycle of derailment. They will never get to where they are going because in order to protect themselves from disillusionment they have taken the train off the tracks.
They cannot vote Obama away, and they cannot pray him away. Cut-off from our shared reality, they cannot cope with or properly analyze the truth of their situation. They are limited to the ineffable workings of the divine will.
The result? They just keep praying.
Their prayers will never come true, just as Jesus will never come back. But they can’t allow for these possibilities. They have been taken out of consideration (the train off the tracks).
And of course, if you are doing God’s will, you can’t possibly be wrong so you can’t even conceive of the need to change anything.
They are left with the unpalatable fact – from their perspective – that, as Dobson put it, “People like that were praying all over this country and the Lord said no.”
What logically follows, according to Dobson, is that because God said no, we are now living in a “time of judgment.” Obama won, Dobson concluded, because God decided he can still make “use of him.”
We can see that nothing they have been told is true, is true. Conservatives can blame Fox News, as has become popular in the wake of the Romney fiasco, but the viewers are as much to blame as the news. Each drove the other. They were mutually dependent in an endless feedback cycle.
Fox News should be seen as much as a form of apologia as a form of propaganda, and, perhaps, as a form of public prayer, endlessly recited. A prayer that reality is exactly as it needs to be, a reality more amenable to belief than the really real, which is the domain not only of liberals, but of Satan.
Be glad, my friends, that you are not conservatives, consigned to a nightmare of their own construction and from which there is no awaking.
[1] Susan Kwilecki, Religion and Coping: A Contribution from Religious Studies. Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion, 43 (Dec 2004), 477-489.
[2] Ibid.
[3] Eugen Schoenfeld, Religion and Loyalty to the Political Elite: The Case of the Presidency. Review of Religious Research 27 (Dec 1985), 178-188.
[4] ibid.
[5] Ibid.

James Morrison
Nov. 19th, 2012 at 2:44 pm
The only thing worth praying for is mercy. Until people realize this, they will be lost.
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orly
Nov. 20th, 2012 at 12:13 am
If mercy was in God’s plan, then you’d get it. If it wasn’t, you wont. Your prayers wont change divine decisions based on infinite wisdom. Pretending that they will is just pretentious.
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Sandra
Nov. 20th, 2012 at 12:50 pm
Prayers won’t work for the fake christians because they are praying for their personal Glory and greed and God doesn’t do selfishness and greed and hypocrisy. They don’t pray for or help the sick, the poor, the hungry, the naked, the cold and the injured, people who Jesus Christ cared about and dedicated His life on earth to helping so God will never answer or fulfill their selfish prayers and dreams, infact, He doesn’t even listen to their prayers as noted in the Bible, He ignores them.
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A Walkaway
Nov. 21st, 2012 at 9:08 am
Not only do they not pray for people who are poor or suffering (or whatever), they PREY on them.
Or maybe I should say that they make life far harder for them if they don’t “accept their lot in life”… and if the poor person speaks out against the evil he or she sees coming from the churches, they commit violence against that person and their family (and their pets and maybe even their friends).
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Michelle H.H.
Nov. 19th, 2012 at 2:53 pm
You ignore one possibility, as have rightwingnut. Left wing Christian prayer combined with Obama’s own faith in a path walked in righteousness for his fellowman.
maybe THAT was what our Father listened to, and said YeS.
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A Walkaway
Nov. 21st, 2012 at 9:08 am
Now that’s a thought I like, and would agree with.
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Edie BS
Nov. 19th, 2012 at 2:57 pm
How sad. Finally these folks have learned that Jesus wasn’t some blue-eyed blonde.
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A Walkaway
Nov. 21st, 2012 at 9:20 am
(Laugh)… I’ve read that we (re)make God in our own image.
If Jesus were to come walking down some of the streets in this area, he’d probably be shot at and told to go to “his” side of town. I know he would not be welcomed in a lot of the churches… especially if he didn’t wear a suit and tie (required even for the poorest in most of them). He’d be rejected if he turned water into wine. They’d be terribly offended if sat down and ate a meal with prostitutes and street people – not like I’ve seen where it’s done once a year to show people “Look how holy I am – I’m actually sitting with these horrible sinners!” but because our understanding of the REAL Jesus is that he cared about ordinary people.
Considering the environment in which he lived, he was very much aware of persecution and discrimination, and we know he opposed it. By all accounts, the Roman occupation of Israel was brutal and harsh towards the ordinary people. I don’t think that the “Good Christians” would like what He’d say at all to them.
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Maxine wells
Nov. 19th, 2012 at 3:15 pm
The famous prayer that He taught us is”thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.
Pray it!
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Sugapea
Nov. 19th, 2012 at 3:16 pm
We can only hope (and Pray) this recent Election will have enabled our fellow Americans to ‘Evolve’ and join us…so that ‘together’…we take this beautiful nation forward!
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Johnee
Nov. 19th, 2012 at 3:28 pm
Marcus Aurelius. My favorite emperor (and no, not just because he was in the movie “Gladiator”).
Yes,the philosopher king displayed a combination of razor sharp intellect, logic, and yes superior morality to conservative Christians.
These types will always be able to rationalize why their prayers didn’t get the results that they wanted because it’s “part of God’s plan” or that “the Lord moves in mysterious ways”.
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luciboo
Nov. 19th, 2012 at 3:31 pm
Do they ever think God gave us Obama the same way he gave us Washington Lincoln and FDR when this country was in peril. Maybe the Christian right and their leaders are just wrong.
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Johnee
Nov. 19th, 2012 at 5:53 pm
But-but that w-would mean that Obama (gasp) ISN’T the devil!
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Jo Hargis
Nov. 19th, 2012 at 7:45 pm
Gasp! That’s a bit much of a dose of reality, don’tcha think? =)
Pretty amazing, these people. They always manage to find a justification for every eventual outcome. If there’s a God up there, maybe he’s not too keen on them praying for a certain outcome, rather than just praying for what’s best for the nation. With thousands of people dying every day in the world, world poverty, genocide, huge natural disasters, etc., it seems rather arrogant for them to assume God gives a rat’s arse about a piddly little ol’ election anyways.
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fedded-up
Nov. 20th, 2012 at 10:51 am
Personally, I think my sister’s rant said it best. Her husband (evangelical) said after a major ugly storm that took down a pile of trees that missed the house: “It’s a miracle! God really took care of us today!” She stares at him with her jaw dropped, then says: “Excuse me? Who SENT this weather? If a tree landed on the house, but didn’t cause much damage, it would be, ‘Wow, God kept us safe.’ If the tree took half the roof, you’d say, ‘Wow, at least God kept us safe!’ If the tree had smushed me, you’d say, ‘Well, it was just her time – she’s with God now.’ If the tree had smushed YOU, I guess I’d be saying, ‘Thank God.’”
I haven’t laughed that hard in a longggggg time.
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Marlin Washington
Nov. 19th, 2012 at 3:45 pm
Did they ever think how many people were praying for president Obama to win?. Mabe a majority.
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Sandra
Nov. 20th, 2012 at 12:59 pm
And not just in America Marlin. This Canadian and others like me were praying more for his safety and that of his family and hoping for a win because as I prayed to God, he world needs someone like him to get us back on track and he’s empathic and sympathetic to the causes, dreams and hopes of ordinary folks, trite I know but true. I think when we pray for others, rather than for ourselves, and with a sincere, selfless heart, God listens.
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stormskies
Nov. 19th, 2012 at 3:45 pm
What’s wrong is the Christian right itself. What’s wrong is that James Dobson thinks/ believes he is a man of God. In reality he is nothing more than a hemorrhoid on the asshole of Lucifer itself.
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barb
Nov. 19th, 2012 at 3:47 pm
Yeah, maybe God will use President Obama to put forth some legislation to help ‘the least of these’. You know the ones Jesus talked about so much?
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David MacDowell Blue
Nov. 19th, 2012 at 6:04 pm
Another possibility never seems to get mentioned–that God’s law is for human beings to have free will.
For the record, I am Eastern Orthodox and voted for President Obama.
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Reynardine
Nov. 19th, 2012 at 6:43 pm
Damn straight People Like Us were fighting their tyrannical little wills with all we had– on every level. Exhaustion, thy name is People Like Us, The Day After.
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SinghX
Nov. 19th, 2012 at 7:04 pm
“…Perhaps these prayers just help them cope. It is a form of therapy.”
Yes, it is; it is both in the world of our human brain.
We are wired to cope. Humans learned centuries ago to created rituals that aided us in times of grief, loose, etc.,; they are meant to help us “cope” and move on, live life; it’s an innate “skill” of sorts.
If not, large swipes of the species would have/would have to perished because they can not channn…uh-ooooh
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Reynardine
Nov. 19th, 2012 at 8:26 pm
Singh, did you find my prior message?
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SinghX
Nov. 20th, 2012 at 6:50 am
Yep…fired off a shorty.
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1voice1vote
Nov. 19th, 2012 at 7:31 pm
The ads placed in amongst the paragraphs of this article while I read: “Earn a Bible Degree” and “Christian Prayer Center *Submit your request. *Thousands will pray for you.”
Amused, I am. Glad too, Mr. Hraf. Very glad.
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Shiva (Moderator)
Nov. 19th, 2012 at 8:18 pm
I was brought up religious and there is one thing I know, at least to myself. Prayer is a simple communication between you, your soul and god. Prayer is about YOU. Not getting the blackie in the whitehouse out. Not changing the weather to suit your needs. It is about your soul. Anything lese is pandering and sacreligious.
But thank the thousands of gods that came before I grew up. I now know there is no soul, there is no god and prayer is a form of meditation that it doesnt hurt to use. It helps the mind sort things out
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SinghX
Nov. 20th, 2012 at 7:19 am
“…prayer is a form of meditation that it doesnt hurt to use. It helps the mind sort things out.”
What you are referring to is formally known as our “Secondary Cognitive Skill”–which means we have skills (such as meditation, prayer, etc) by which to the brain adapts (“I” can deal/cope/sort it out).
Our first, or our “Primary Cognitive Skill”, is the fright/flight system (some have added the word “freeze). That is our first “trigger” and then we go to the second (unless we are being chased by a lion). As I said, we are “wired” that way and that’s all there is to it…
Religion has ‘high-jacked” something that is innate to our actual “chemistry” and turned it into a dogma that they claim is theirs and contains some kind of truthiness; all they’ve utilized is the cognitive dissonance trigger (which the brain is also wired to perceive). We are wired, as well, to know lies and preemptive danger…but in REALITY, when you’re NOT meditating, you become mindlessness, not mindful! (I’m preaching to the choir, I know).
This whole business of “Gimme an sign, Lord” is the biggest con ever pushed on man kind…it’s nothing more that magical thinking and, I’m convinced eventually leads to some level mental illness if you let it rule your mind.
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Shiva (Moderator)
Nov. 20th, 2012 at 7:59 am
give me a sign Lord is a scam, because everything that happens will turn out to be the sign.
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researchgrrrl
Nov. 20th, 2012 at 12:53 pm
To my eye, the real failure they had on all levels was to opt for selfishness (getting rid of someone they didn’t like) instead of focusing their prayers to ask for what will best for the country. If they want to pray or meditate or whatever, great, but they’re worse Christians than I am (and I’m an atheist) if they think they can impose their wills and wants on their idea of their god. They could have at least justified a victory of sorts had they asked for what was best for the country, because they guarantee themselves ‘proof’ their prayers worked no matter the outcome. The thing is, that would mean admitting they’re jerks then having to acknowledge the good the Obama administration has done. And really? They don’t care about the good of the country, just themselves.
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Maureen Mower
Nov. 20th, 2012 at 2:02 pm
They didn’t pray for what is best for the country because they arrogantly assumed they already knew what was best. After all, didn’t their idols on Fox and The 700 Club tell them that Obama was the AntiChrist? (/sarcasm)
This is actually the second time they all prayed for Obama to lose – and the second time their God said, “Oh hell no!” to them. Think they got the message yet? I doubt it.
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Sandra
Nov. 20th, 2012 at 1:13 pm
As a Catholic I dont’ quite agree that prayers are about the individual ‘you.’ I pray for others ie the sick, the hungry, the abandonded, the suffering, esp. children first then include the collective ‘we’ as in praying for our health and giving us the strength to deal with our illness(cancer in my case).
The point is that the fake chrisitans pray about themselves only and their glorification and wanting specific things that will benefit them ie greed, not about others who really need someone to pray for them. God does not listen to selfish prayers, Jesus Christ says he ignores them.
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Maranon
Nov. 19th, 2012 at 8:23 pm
Another reason why their prayers were not answered could be that their god believes in separation of church and state!
Was not Jesus who said:
“give to Cesar what is Cesar’s and to god what is god’s”
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Anne
Nov. 19th, 2012 at 8:26 pm
It’s ironic that these folks were praying for God to deliver the election victory to the morally and intellectually bankrupt Willard Romney, who would have lost no time enacting policies that would have harmed them. Apparently, it’s lost on them that the blessing is that they didn’t get what they wanted. Otherwise, they would have gotten more than they bargained for.
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KatzKids
Nov. 20th, 2012 at 7:40 am
Garth Brooks knew that. LOL! His song “Thank Heaven for Unanswered Prayers” points to it. The Fundamentalists just can’t handle NO although they’re experts in telling others NO.
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A Walkaway
Nov. 21st, 2012 at 2:18 pm
My life was an unending series of “NO”s until I told them “No”, then I met my wife. No still was a huge problem until I said to hell with their version of God, left the conservative churches (mainstream) and walked on my own path… the one I’d been pushed off of by them 33 years ago.
Their “God” is the God of NO!, and yes, they cannot handle being told “No!” to their face by living people.
(The “God” of the “Good Christians” only seems to like to say “Yes” to suffering, loss, misery, and poverty – unless it’s for the rich/preachers, who are “God’s Chosen”.)
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Mike
Nov. 19th, 2012 at 8:33 pm
Perhaps Dobson might have been more successful if he had prayed that the person God wanted to be elected would be elected. Just as I believe that it is not effective to pray for a Cadillac. Maybe he should pray for America to develop spiritual qualities to balance out the material qualities. Things like the elimination of the excesses of poverty and excessive wealth, the elimination of prejudices, the equality of men and women. There are things the government can do to promote qualities that God might approve.
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Shiva (Moderator)
Nov. 19th, 2012 at 8:47 pm
My god, are you saying thy will be done?
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SinghX
Nov. 20th, 2012 at 7:31 am
Oh heaven forbid one prays for the removal, the resolve, a way to release fellow Americans from the pain and suffering produced by all of the above! We can’t have that! All those “takers” would live; there wouldn’t be enough for the “job makers”…you wnat secular people in government making decisions?? Oh lordy, lordy, let us pray!
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Captnavenger
Nov. 19th, 2012 at 9:49 pm
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
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Elizabeth
Nov. 19th, 2012 at 10:12 pm
“And of course, if you are doing God’s will, you can’t possibly be wrong so you can’t even conceive of the need to change anything.” When you start with a fallacious proposal, everything that follows is fallacious. They are assuming that they, and not those who disagree, are following the will of God.
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Angel
Nov. 19th, 2012 at 10:36 pm
God Bless President Barack Obama. God’s will was done.
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Ernie Ferguson
Nov. 19th, 2012 at 11:19 pm
Perhaps the Lord approves of Obama. Have they ever thought about that?
I work at a large retailer and one of our associates fasted to persuade God to cause Obama to lose. It was a very long fast and we all thought he was going to die before election day finally came. I admire the strength of his belief, but I also realize that he is completely unhinged.
We haven’t spoken since the election. What could either of us possibly say?
There was a time when we just ignored our lunatics and hoped that they wouldn’t harm themselves or us. Now with 24 hour cable news cycle we promote our deranged into positions of power and influence.
Prayer is, and always has been, ineffective. This has been explained away in the book of Job and as the mysterious workings of God. But, really, if you are a true believer then you must have the faith that everything that happens is part of God’s plan.
Objecting to God’s plan is an arrogant blasphemy in their worldview. Obama is God’s plan. Deal with it you damn heretics!
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robyn ryan
Nov. 20th, 2012 at 10:35 am
Someone has to hold down the whackjob part of the bell curve of human potential.
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A Walkaway
Nov. 21st, 2012 at 2:25 pm
(LAUGH!!!) The Book of Job.
The damned “Good Christians” insist it’s about “why bad things happen to good people” or “Why you sometimes don’t get your prayers answered”.
There is one sentence that makes sense out of the whole book. It’s when the “final voice of Authority”, “God”, says to Job’s friends “You have not told the truth of Me as my servant Job has!” Then go re-read everything Job said, referring back to that single line of scripture every time you get uncomfortable.
It may hit you between the eyes as it did me… the whole book was a diatribe against the idea that “God rewards good people with good things, and punishes sinners with suffering, misery, and poverty”. Indeed, you could cut the book off at the end of that sentence and the whole thing would still make coherent sense – even as some of the other ancient versions of the story of Job do.
The evidence is, the idea of “God’s chosen person/people” is very old, and like today, they assume much – which the Book of Job punctures.
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bluerose
Nov. 20th, 2012 at 12:38 am
”For God So Loved The World That He Gave Barack Obama, That Whoever Believes In Him Should/Will Not Perish But Have Ever Lasting Life”
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robyn ryan
Nov. 20th, 2012 at 10:36 am
At least this time he didn’t get someone else’s partner preggers against their will……
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D. W. Skinner
Nov. 20th, 2012 at 8:06 am
now start praying we don’t tax your churches into scorched charcoal!
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Shiva (Moderator)
Nov. 20th, 2012 at 9:39 am
Why?
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Churchlady
Nov. 20th, 2012 at 10:35 am
Because, sigh, you will destroy the good, caring, inclusive churches that are all small without touching the large Megachurches that are angry and evil and keep on making money even if they are taxed. THAT is why. Do NOT throw the baby out with the bathwater.
No one really knows if prayer has efficacy. It may be that quantum physics will show that Spooky Action at a Distance does confirm connectedness though it’s likely among people not between individuals and an Other. The Other may be our ability to focus on the good and move forward. Collective human consciousness might well be found to be part of the physical as well as spiritual realm. We have lots to learn. More things on heaven and earth, Horatio…
Truth is a voyage, not a destination.
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Shiva (Moderator)
Nov. 20th, 2012 at 11:27 am
I have no problem with churches disappearing,
But then again I have no problem with people believing what they want to believe either. There are tremendous amount of small churches at least in my area that are highly political. Of course they are all southern Baptist and have a church on every corner. It’s a good part of how the people have maintained their wonderful bigotry. But that’s not to deny that there are good churches.
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A Walkaway
Nov. 21st, 2012 at 2:29 pm
Actually, recent research shows that thought/prayer/belief can have an effect (howbeit small) on chance and things at the quantum level.
I don’t have the reference here… and found out about it by a section in another journal article.
If I run into it again (and remember), I’ll try to post a link. I may take a little time today and see if I can find the original one that referred to the research.
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StoneScribe
Nov. 20th, 2012 at 10:22 am
Most people do not know how to pray. The phrase “ask and ye shall receive” means we have to pray in the form of a question, not a request.
God is unconditional love. That means God does not take sides, one way or the other. We the people voted for our preferred candidates and those with the most votes won their races.
God’s “plan” is free will. We have the right to believe, feel, think, and do as we wish. We have the right not to believe in God. It’s doesn’t matter. God’s unconditional love is still with us and sustaining our lives.
Free will, however, also means experiencing the consequences of our thoughts, feelings, beliefs, and actions. Whether we assign judgments like “good” or “bad” to those consequences is entirely up to us.
God doesn’t take sides.
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A Walkaway
Nov. 21st, 2012 at 2:37 pm
The problem is, “Good Christians” have decided what the consequences are and push them on people.
Consequence for writing a letter to the editor defending teaching evolution = having one’s electronics workshop torched (total loss, no insurance, no aid).
Consequence of other letters = innocent kitties poisoned and so on.
Consequences of being labeled “gay” (although you aren’t) = having good paying jobs you applied for blocked.
Consequences of Walking (away from abusive churches) – harassment and stalking and attempts to coerce one to “return to the fold”.
The fact is, most of the time people don’t experience the consequences for their actions – in fact, often the reality is that others do. Then “Good Christians” claim that the first person isn’t responsible for the harm they did to the second person.
(They’re quick to claim credit if they help someone else, even if it’s not their intent or accidental!)
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Chicagoguy
Nov. 20th, 2012 at 12:07 pm
I thot the article topic was interesting
but that it was too long & unfocused for me.
The comments,however, were much more interesting &
enjoyable to read. You folks are good thinkers
& very good & clever writers. I’m thankful for
you folks today.
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Jonathan
Nov. 20th, 2012 at 12:11 pm
God is not a Republican, nor is he a Democrat.
However, I prayed for a healed nation, and an end to hateful rhetoric from narrowminded people. I prayed for the people of this nation of focus on real concerns and the improvement of the lives and hopes of all people living here. I am a Democrat and I have hope and faith that my prayers are heard.
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James Threadgill
Nov. 20th, 2012 at 1:38 pm
The Bible also says “seek and ye shall find.” Apparently misery, discontent, and ignorance are what they wanted to find.
http://regressivewatch.org
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PamT
Nov. 20th, 2012 at 3:20 pm
I guess God is just not that into them. Thanks, God.
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Eddie Powell
Nov. 20th, 2012 at 11:49 pm
This so called fundamentalists movement from the early 1920s has become and continue to be now a long running joke based on lying tongues and false prophets…. The basic ideology behind their movement at the onset of the movement was to literally interpret and live by the word found in the scripture which never calls for harm to another one of His children. What began as a true movement has been invaded by self serving men like Dobson and types like him. The scripture states generally and specifically that power of judgement and punishment is God’s only. Dobson and his like prayed without reservation that the people become blinded to their evil and only their way and condemn the president. Their lies about him being not worthy of a second term by keeping the rich rich and his stance on abortion and homosexuality was for them enough to pray for a lying tongue and false prophet to win. Their views were not only against the written word but sickening to an intelligent mindset. They knew from the word they were praying for calamity and destruction of our nation . . .That is sure what the scripture states if we follow a false prophet. They acted as though we were to dumb to read to know enough about God and the written word to have any say in electing our president. God exposed them for what they really were…. false prophets before HIm. Their movement is solely based on their judgements and punishments. Their judgements and their punishments and not God’s love or His mercy as the scripture specifically states.. They come dressed as sheep but are blesphemers of the word of God. The failures of these fundamentalists will continue because of false prophets like Dobson and other leaders like him of/in this current movement. They act as though God owns a cell phone and they are only one that have his private number and dial it at their evil will. Apparently the line was busy or He just did not want to be bothered anyway
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A Walkaway
Nov. 21st, 2012 at 2:58 pm
It seems to me that from the very beginning on Asuza street (the movement that started around 1920), the movement was poisoned… with racism, bigotry, and the like. Another early killer of the movement was the insistence on the Bible being literally true.
Before Dobson, it was toxic as hell. I was involved between 79 and 82… and although I remember his name, he was more of a “family issues advice person”, and didn’t become overtly political until later – although he was already spewing hate for LGBT people.
I also read about some of the early people, and they were all world-class scammers.
By the time I was involved, they were already teaching their “Ministry students” how to invade other churches to “lead the lost sheep back” (or whatever). I used to hang out with the students being so trained. By then, they’d already worked out a number of techniques on getting in and taking over other churches. They also were well-versed in brainwashing techniques (aka thought control), and had me so screwed up that I forgot I had a college education for some time – and believed their assertions that I was only good for hard manual labor (“A Real Job”).
Nah… there never was any good in that movement, and the evil was manifesting itself early on. The fundamentalist movement itself (starting in the 1800s) started with rejection of science (evolution). Their assertions led to warnings from more educated ministers that they would drive people from Christ… which is exactly what has happened.
(I have one such sermon stored somewhere on my hard drive – dating to around 1900.)
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