Yet another reason to be glad former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee is not our President.
Today, Huckabee took to Fox News to express his opinion that the Sandy Hook Elementary school shooting happened because we took God out of schools.
Watch here if you dare (courtesy of Think Progress’ youtube):
Never one to let a chance to politicize a tragedy pass him by, Huckabee doesn’t want to talk about guns or male violence or the culture of violence he participates in on Fox News. No, he wants to blame the victims of the crime by suggesting that if they had let his God in His Way, this wouldn’t have happened. If we had God in our schools, they would not be a place of “carnage”.
Huckabee desperately grasped at straws, explaining that if we took every gun away, someone who wanted to destroy us would just get a bomb, so there’s no point in regulating guns. Because, you know, bombs are everywhere. But, FEAR always shuts them up on Fox. He was sure to get in there that laws don’t change these things, hearts do.
And then this:
Neil Cavuto: How could God let this happen?
Mike Huckabee: We’ve systematically removed God from our schools. Should we be so surprised that schools have become a place for carnage because we’ve made it a place where we don’t want to talk about eternity, life, responsibility, accountability?
This premise is based upon the idea that God is a vindictive God, and one who does not exist unless you are praying, otherwise, how could God, if she/he is real, go missing from schools just because prayer is not allowed?
Speaking of responsibility, Huckabee should have said that God did not let this happen. We let this happen, with our refusal to face reality after each horrifying act of mass gun violence over the past two years alone.
Also, I don’t know what schools Huckabee went to, but the schools I attended most certainly did discuss responsibility and accountability. What does that have to do with a shooter, who was not attending that school? He was the son of a teacher, not a student. How does what they cover in class have any bearing on his actions? Does Huckabee think that His God disappears when people enter school, that faith dies at the doorstep? How absurd. Further absurd is the idea that without his God, there is no morality. This is a belief of conservatives, but it’s clearly not true (see statistics re Red states versus Blue states).
Huckabee ended by saying that if we let Him (God) in on the front end, we wouldn’t have to have Him show up on the back end. This is how he justified getting around talking about changing our NRA-dictated gun laws.
I don’t know how Huckabee would explain the shootings in religious schools. Did God let that happen, too? All I know is this is a weak excuse to avoid discussing the obvious. America has a problem with her gun laws. They aren’t working.
Huckabee is politicizing this tragedy by suggesting that gun control should not even be a topic of conversation. This is yet another example of how the gun culture has become so extreme that even the hint of discussion must be stamped out before it’s begun. Rational discussion will not be had — if you call for a discussion on gun control (not gun banning, gun control), you will be flamed en masse until you rethink voicing your opinion. This kind of intimidation is wrong, and it has contributed to the extremism we see in the gun culture today.
Of course, Huckabee’s justification is not only offensive, but incorrect. Laws, in fact, do have some correlation to the number of gun deaths, whether this is causal or not is up for debate:
States with stricter gun control laws have fewer deaths from gun-related violence.
Last year, economist Richard Florida dove deep into the correlations between gun deaths and other kinds of social indicators. Some of what he found was, perhaps, unexpected: Higher populations, more stress, more immigrants, and more mental illness were not correlated with more deaths from gun violence. But one thing he found was, perhaps, perfectly predictable: States with tighter gun control laws appear to have fewer gun-related deaths.
A real discussion must be had about our gun laws, and no transparent attempt to avoid the obvious is going to cut it this time. If Mike Huckabee’s God disappears because he’s not allowed to pray out loud in school, that sounds like a problem with his belief/faith, not a problem with our schools. And it’s certainly not responsible for today’s tragedy.
PoliticusUSA
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Andrew Carvin
Dec. 14th, 2012 at 10:11 pm
Crazy evil person does crazy evil thing, and we all take a moment to act appalled even though stuff like this happens worldwide on a daily basis, BUT we care about this one incident because it happened here, and the media is saying “HEY LOOK AT THIS.” Hypocrites, all of you. This person is NOT representative of gun owners, and if you took a moment to think, you would know that. I made a video about why you should own a gun for self-defense. It’s at my YouTube channel Zarrakan, and here’s the name:
2012 4 1 ZOC Guns And Self-Defense
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ALDPE3Jlwo
Watch it, share it, and join the fight against the evil anti-gun movement.
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djchefron
Dec. 14th, 2012 at 10:36 pm
“He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you.” – Friedrich Nietzsche
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Churchlady
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 1:13 am
Mr. Carven – can you offer a single instance in which a mass murder has been thwarted by anyone pinned down by said shooter and returning fire thus saving us all? No? Well why not? Surely it’s not because of “gun free zones” since most of the events of this type were either before gun laws, gun free zones or occur in states with very lax gun laws. So of course there were people who HAD guns, but for some reason did not jump to the fore, kill the perp, and become hero of the day.
Now it turns out that a man at the Gabby Giffords rally DID have a gun. He did, indeed, draw it and took aim on the shooter – only to be subdued by the man next to HIM. Why? The hero of the hour was aiming at the WRONG MAN. He was about to shoot the guy wrestling Laughner’s gun away. Hmm.
Huckabee yelps about taking GOD out of schools. I went to school in one of this nations’ most religious communities – no prayers in school there. Not much talk of God either. And we all turned out pretty fine.
In 1999 when Columbine occurred, Operation Save America was laying siege to Buffalo, NY. Faux Christian OSA Leader Flip Benham chalked the Columbine incident up to ‘abortion’. Oh? Seems much more likely these two men were influenced by the growing braggadocio of the Religious Right that killed abortion providers, patients, patient volunteers, and staff with impunity – and then defended it as “justifiable”. The fury of the Religious Right over having people not agree with them that a blastocyte is MORE important than a woman turned into massive violence all of which they CELEBRATED. Religious Right zealots think killing people they don’t like is noble, good, and perfectly OK.
So THAT is what we are teaching our young. Someone gets in your face, disagrees with you, blow ‘em away. To the Religious Right, God said it’s OK if you have Jesus in your heart. At least that’s what these phony preachers claim.
No one has a notarized note from GOD.
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Ignia
Dec. 16th, 2012 at 4:42 am
Mph. All but 2 states allow you to carry guns on your person. All 50 states allow gun ownership. There are fewer gun regulations now than 10 years ago, and mass shootings have exploded in those years. Pro-gun sentiment is at an all-time high in America.
If guns were going to stop a mass shooting, don’t you think they would have done so by now? You want to saturate the streets with more guns? Everyone who wants one (barring felons and the mentally ill that actually make it into the states’ system) already owns a gun and carries it with them. What would you like to do? Force people to start carrying guns? Even those, like me, who have a personal objection strong enough to boarder on religious sentiment?Or would you prefer to keep doing exactly what we have been doing, and expect a different result?
Obviously our system is not working.
Personally I vote that instead of waiting periods, etc., or even bans on assault type weapons, that gun ownership and carry permits are given. And to qualify, you have to pass a psych eval backed by a lie detector test of some sort. Must be renewed on a similar schedule to a driver’s license. And for similar reasons.
Add a hotline to automatically verify validation of registration for sales, immediate answer, no waiting for a bg check. Record serial number of gun in same call w/brief description. And of you loose your permit to own/carry, at any time and for any reason, the state confiscates them and holds them in trust until you are re-certified (mental health regained) or for next-of-kin post mortem, with option to buy at a reasonable price at owner’s preference.
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Reynardine
Dec. 14th, 2012 at 10:21 pm
God is either everywhere or nowhere, always or never, and Huckabee’s argument holds a lot less water than a baby’s diaper.
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Shiva (Moderator)
Dec. 14th, 2012 at 10:30 pm
My bet is that god was in school today. But it was the old testament god
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Johnee
Dec. 14th, 2012 at 10:35 pm
Yeah. That would be right up his alley.
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Reynardine
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 9:34 am
The god you speak of is a vicious old idol, made in the image of vicious old men.
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Ignia
Dec. 16th, 2012 at 4:46 am
Ever notice how the more religious nations have the most violence within them?
Iran, iraq, America, Afghanistan, Uganda….
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itstimeforchange
Dec. 14th, 2012 at 10:23 pm
some ways of fine-tuning current gun laws:
1) Current federal law (and many of state laws) forbid gun ownership by convicted felons and persons adjudged of unsound mind. This could be extended to embrace anyone convicted of driving while intoxicated or of multiple conviction of selected violent misdemeanors. Such laws should be leavened by allowing police to give special permits to own a gun to such people if they have not been in trouble for years.
2) The ban on felons owning guns is undercut because millions of sales are between private persons where the sellers have no way of checking whether the buyer is a felon. The obvious way to deal with this would be to require everyone who owns or wants to buy a gun to acquire a federal permit that would be available on proof that he/she was an adult without a felony record. But that is both politically and practically impossible. Gun owners, who are convinced that the anti-gun crusaders will eventually use permit records to confiscate all guns, would hysterically fight the law and, if it were enacted, would flout it en masse. More promising would be to have a criminal records check done with the driver’s license. Every license issued would bear the notation “eligible to own firearms” (except, of course, for juveniles, felons and those with sanity records). Sale of a gun to a person without a driver’s license bearing this notation would be a felony and also make the seller financially liable for any wrong the buyer did with the gun.
3) Guns commonly enter the underworld when stolen from lawful owners by burglars who find such theft profitable because guns are easily fencible items. One way to severely discourage such theft would be a dual law that (a) imposes a mandatory three year prison sentence on anyone knowingly possessing a stolen gun; and (b) rebuttably presumes knowing possession if the defendant is found to have possessed two or more stolen guns. Faced with this, fences may stop buying stolen guns,…
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Shiva (Moderator)
Dec. 14th, 2012 at 10:31 pm
Thats fine, but does not address the fact that most gun killings(70-75%) are done by relatives, friends or from drinking.
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Shiva (Moderator)
Dec. 14th, 2012 at 11:03 pm
You limited it to family data.
I was wrong, its 53%
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded/expandhomicidemain
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Shiva (Moderator)
Dec. 14th, 2012 at 11:13 pm
Well then figure the %
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl08.xls
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Anne
Dec. 14th, 2012 at 10:25 pm
Huckabee’s just another self-righteous creep who is using this incident as an excuse for his mealy-mouthed self-righteousness. Apparently, it’s lost on him that sensible gun control measures would have kept this nutcase from getting his hands on a weapon. His response is to use religion in lieu of critical thinking, and the fact that he does not even mention gun control speaks volumes about him. He also failed to address the reality of this man’s severe mental illness, as well as the need to lift the stigma attached to it that keeps so many from getting the help they need.
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fedded-up
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 1:35 pm
“Apparently, it’s lost on him that sensible gun control measures would have kept this nutcase from getting his hands on a weapon.”
Normally, I would agree, but not in this case. The guns were purchased by his mother, who, apparently, was not a nutcase, and was, in fact, also killed by her son. No one has discussed why and/or how this woman purchased these weapons.
“He also failed to address the reality of this man’s severe mental illness, as well as the need to lift the stigma attached to it that keeps so many from getting the help they need.”
Bang on the money – the on-going stigma attached to any mental illness diagnosis continues to haunt our society with ever-growing body counts. In addition, the severe limitations placed on insurance coverage, including miniscule lifetime maximum coverages, desperately needs addressed. This is probably the biggest, ugliest, most pervasive problem in our society, and our complete seeming indifference to it should be seen as a big fat neon-flashing badge of shame.
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Anne
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 3:03 pm
A big part of gun control has nothing to do with laws and everything to do with the owners of guns to act responsibly by securing them so they are out of the hands of children and also of mentally unstable individuals like the shooter has proven to be. This doesn’t in any way alter or diminish the importance of laws, but gun control laws also have to be accompanied by sound judgment and common sense of gun owners to be effective.
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BodiJohn
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 1:57 pm
Hey, Mike…it would be easier to show a correlation between the nightly, endless, stream of negativity emanating from Fox ‘News’ than on your absurd belief system.
Please join a band full time and ‘shut up and play’.
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djchefron
Dec. 14th, 2012 at 10:28 pm
In 5..4..4..3..2 Huckabee will have a fundraiser button on his website.”Please donate to me so I can fight for your rights as a god fearing American who believes in the 2nd amendment.” Just another republican grifter and charlaton.I bet my last dollar on it.
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Johnee
Dec. 14th, 2012 at 10:33 pm
“Took God out of the schools”.
WTF does that even mean? Damn I hate that phrase. It’s a catch all that conservatives can use and twist around to mean any given thing at any given time.
I attended some pretty strict public schools that, as you say, enforced accountability and responsibility, but I don’t ever remember hearing a sermon or studying the Bible in class.
This man’s just another moron that needs to fade away from any and all public life.
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SinghX
Dec. 14th, 2012 at 11:15 pm
“Took God out of the schools”. WTF does that even mean?”
It is code; it means “Satan” entered because prayer was banned in public schools. When I was a kid, they used to make you stand there and pledge your loyalty, your “indivisible” (whatever the hell that meant to 2nd graders) to a flag and then, the daily prayer would come over the intercom; everyone had to “thank baby Jesus”.
I must have been sick the day Satan came because I don’t remember my teachers introducing Satan as my new master who would dictate all kinds of atheist-communist-ungodly things that would now happen in my life because prayer was no longer allowed before the school day began…apparently that’s what happened.
They are really talking about Satan, not God, which is something the obsess over all constantly…
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Johnee
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 12:04 am
All very true. I’m very familiar with religious right/dominionist code speak. It’s like when they say “religious freedom” they mean their religion ONLY, or “alternative theories to evolution” they mean creationism (or it’s ugly step sister intelligent design)ONLY, and no others.
So they use this code depending on the venue in a certain way so they can back pedal and seem somewhat moderate if necessary. Bill O’Reilly, the dominionist apologist that he is, does this all the time. So, “Christian nation” really means “Judeo Christian philosophy” when he wants it to….and “God out of the schools” means “lack of traditional values” when he wants it to, etc.
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Johnee
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 11:53 am
I’m loving all the down votes that we are getting. Looks like some dominionist sympathizers are doin’ some trolling.
Well speak up! I would love to hear your rebuttal to all this “taking God out of the schools” garbage. Exactly where are SinghX and I going wrong?
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smuck
Dec. 14th, 2012 at 10:47 pm
I am a Democrat. I am Christian. I agree.
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SinghX
Dec. 14th, 2012 at 10:59 pm
Here we go again….the Fox Preacher Man “trying” to own America’s political conversation, and dictate fundamentalist morality of “God’s Will”. Who else has the gall to grab the mic saying “I got this one boys” but the old Arkansas huckster, “Reich” Huckabee, or, as one reporter calls him, “Huck Sin”. This boyish-looking, home-grown, fundamentalist-charismatic Republican is a power to be recognized as “the face” of something potentially evil IF he ever gets a hold of any real political power.
In 2008, Talk2Action ran a whole expose on “Huck Sins” connection to the “Left Behind” cult leader, Gothard.. The expose at Talk2Action quotes Huckabee in various speeches announcing his affiliation with Gothard. Who is Gothard? He’s the guy who is first in command of “Joel’s Army”; Gothard sees himself and his army in charge of taking the rest of us out because we won’t convert to Christianity when the big “A” happens. And Huckabee is his “huckleberry”.
Huckabee, as one of as leaders of “Guns for Jesus” movement, appears “mandated” to go on Fox News and claim the “infidels” are guilty of not worshiping their God…After all, he’s THE expert Fox calls upon for these sort of things!
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Rivka Benoit
Dec. 14th, 2012 at 11:21 pm
Last I heard God was everywhere. However this blood-letting slaughter of children, teachers, and staff in the Ct. School is a direct result of the hideous verbiage of those macho men & women who throw God and guns rhetoric around as they staunchly defend and glorify these weapons, these tools of slaughter of humans and animals. These self-righteous religious conservatives turn my stomach!
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omomma
Dec. 14th, 2012 at 11:40 pm
I don’t think God has anything to do with this. Most likely scenario for me is lack of adequate resources for the care and management of a mentally ill young person, combined with easy access to weapons not associated with hunting.
I’m an advocate for tighter restrictions on gun sales, but that wouldn’t have helped in this instance. Which brings up a question: why would a single parent, who had an education good enough to teach in elementary school, but who had a mentally ill child at home keep these kinds of weapons in her house?
This is a very sad case which would not have turned out differently with good gun control in place. The school had adequate security, but was easily breached because the shooter was known to the the child of an employee. Again, nothing to do with God, or the lack of God.
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Dr. Guleria
Dec. 14th, 2012 at 11:45 pm
Common denominators are crazy idiots and GUNS. Trying predict who is likely to do something violent is for psychiatrists to figure out. The gun part of the equation “we the people” need to figure out! We don’t have mass stabbings, mass bombings, mass vehicular homocide…
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A Walkaway
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 12:34 pm
I don’t know about mass stabbings, but I certainly remember mass bombings (remember the Olympics in Georgia), and attacks by people on groups using a car (some black kids here in Florida were murdered by a white woman who mowed them down for instance and I also remember reading about people plowing into crowds at high speed within the last couple of years with the intent to kill).
We’re already getting the comments about “taking God, prayer, and obedience out of the schools” down here. As damned dangerous as it is to speak out against them, I was going to but thought better. They’re going to blame US (liberals, non-”Good Christians”, etc.) for it, and that’s where these arguments are heading. Can’t have anyone who is different… gotta punish those horrible (_________) (Atheists, liberals, etc.).
I’m even more worried about the reaction to this. We’re looking at a police state – if Romney had won and the Republicans had taken the Senate, we’d be far along that road already. Please don’t encourage it by calls for banning guns… because WE will be the ones who get targeted for the ban. That’s the way life is… the innocent get punished for the crimes of the guilty. I’ve already made it clear why gun bans aren’t a good idea – remember what happened to my people! Gun bans have been in existence in this country before – so that the whites could do anything they wanted to Native Americans and get away with it.
I noted that in the local paper, they were claiming that the perp is a “Goth”. From what I know of the Gothic movement, they’re peaceful and anti-violence. I think we’re seeing the blaming of the “different” here, and I wonder if we’re going to eventually find out that the perp was in one of those “Good Christian” churches and snapped – and did the most evil thing he could think of.
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steve
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 1:54 am
I know this kind of tragedy, I lost my 3 yr old cousins in a smiliar way. There is evil, and blaming God isn’t doing anything here, remember that satan is out to steal kill and destroy, he reared his ugly head today and he does all the time all over the world, we allow it when we seperate ourselves from our creater, we allow a door to open for satan to move in. We have the free will, god gave it to us. Time to blame the real enemy, and to stand our grounds. Satan laughs at us, as we bicker and argue..attacking each other and blaming God that’s exactly what he loves.
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A Walkaway
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 12:38 pm
People who talked just like you torched my electronics workshop because I spoke out defending the teaching of evolution and denouncing creationism, which is a lie.
They’ve also poisoned some of our kitties, stalked us, and done all sorts of harmful things (like finding out a few years later that the damned “Good Christians” had blocked me from getting a decent job because of a rumor I was gay – which I’m not but that’s not the important point).
So don’t start prattling your Bible at us. You Bible-Pounders are guilty of some of the most horrific things that have ever happened, and to tell the truth I expect to eventually learn that the shooter was a “Good Christian” kid who snapped from the sort of mind control and brainwashing that happens in the “Bible-Believing” churches.
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harris stein
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 2:19 pm
You need to look into your heart of hearts before you click the post button.
Get real. There is no hairy old white man living in the sky who looks down on us watching our every move. There is no angel named Satan who enters our minds to force us to do bad things. There is no fairy god mother. There is only us. Supposedly intelligent humanity and other life forms sitting on a rock with a few drops of water, going around and around in a star system on the edge of a medium to large galaxy somewhere in the middle of nowhere.
There is free will but nobody gave it to us. We learn to reason between correct and uncorrect behavior and until we as a society throw off the ridiculous nonsense of the judeo-christian sky god and search our heart of hearts inside us all we will continue lamenting tragedies like Columbine and what happened yesterday in Connecticut.
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djchefron
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 8:39 pm
Are you saying the flying spaggetti monster is not real?Oh the horror!!I, I , I who shall I pray to for that perfect bolognese sauce?
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JimB
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 7:21 am
Thinking guns are responsible for these tragedies is like saying that an oblong ball scores touchdowns in a game or that a fork makes you fat. If we eliminate all guns, people will find a way to be a problem. In the middle east, they use suicide vests that can’t even be detected by a metal detector. What is to keep a kid from wearing one into a school? Huckabee is exactly right that we have lost our moral compass and need to get a relationship with our creator before this is going to get better.
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A Walkaway
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 12:47 pm
See my comment to Steve. I’ve read into the background of some of the other school shootings, and I know you Bible Pounders have been repeating lies among yourselves.
In many instances, the shooter was someone mistreated by the “Good Christians” (it’s called bullying) and pushed way beyond what any human being can tolerate.
I think in the long run, you’ll find most of these horrific acts are people ostracized and punished because of being different.
As far as “America’s Moral Compass”, well, talk with American Indians. America has been one of the most evil and lying countries in existence, and maybe, just maybe lately the American culture was developing one – extending the freedom the whites reserved for themselves to others, and recognizing that they can’t have it all for just one type of people. News Flash – the people your ancestors tried to eliminate -UP UNTIL 1980 when we finally gained freedom of religion in our OWN COUNTRY- were more Christian than the “Settlers” ever were… we didn’t preach but we certainly practiced it.
So I suggest that you start thinking about how “Christian” you act, and for once shut your mouth and SHOW it (and I also suggest you read what Jesus taught and forget the rest of the Bible for a while).
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SinghX
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 8:28 pm
… Huckabee is exactly right that we have lost our moral compass and need to get a relationship with our creator before this is going to get better…”
Blah,blah,blah…
Only an uneducated fool would believe Huckabee has a moral compass. He dropped out of “ethics and morality” classes back in seminary school, according to his former classmates; several of them (now ministers) made issue of this FACT when he was a presidential candidate. Never took the courses, never bothered with the facts, or subject matter.
Don’t come here with this hokey religious superiority “get right with the sky-god” because Mr Moral Compass says so…he hasn’t any moral ground upon witch to stand.
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D. W. Skinner
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 8:59 am
Does FOX go trolling in the insane asylums to find their commentators?
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TJohnson
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 9:11 am
On 911, no guns were used but over 3000 people were killed. Should we ban airplanes or have airplane control laws. The ones responsible used box cutters take over the planes. We have stopped allowing those to get on airplanes so they turn to explosive materials in shoes and in underwear. Evil people will find a way.
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Shiva (Moderator)
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 9:20 am
and, and, and in medieval days they used swords! We must ban swords!
Great attempt to equate how people are killed. Why not go tell the parents that little ditty?
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A Walkaway
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 1:07 pm
Shiva, you’ve got to admit that dead is dead, whether by gun, knife, poison (remember the sarin gas in the subway attacks in Japan), airplane, or bombs (I’m thinking of the Georgia Olympics bombing).
Terrorism is the evil here, and “lone wolf” terrorism is no less horrible.
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Reynardine
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 9:40 am
Ding, ding! We HAVE airplane control laws, and we’ve had them since we quit flying biplanes!
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TJohnson
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 10:25 am
and we still had 3000 people killed, hmmmmm
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Reynardine
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 9:09 pm
Because, as we know, they were all strangely lying down on the job that day, which proved most propitious for the eventual foray into Iraq. And where were you about that? Stomping Dixie Chicks CD’s, maybe?
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knight4444
Dec. 17th, 2012 at 10:50 am
I think you win the prize for dumbest comment! what does the aircraft used to plow into the twin towers have to do with gun control? The NRA loves non thinkers like you! It’s incredible how republican types are so black and white in thought process!! Life isn’t always black and white theres shades of gray you know!
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boil
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 11:05 am
i am a hard left lib commie socialist type. i am a member of libs for guns. but i keep all my weapons and ammo in a gun safe. my wife and I are the only ones who know the combo. it appears this kids mom knew about her childs mental issues, and was a hard gun collector. if she locked those armaments up, he wouldnt have had access….
and i do want a CCW permit, but thanks to the silly CA. laws, its almost impossible. make it licensed like a drivers, test and train every 2 years, and you need insurance. you are not going to get rid of the guns now, but you can train people to know what to do. i go to a gun range once a month, and attend gun safety seminars too. there is a reason to be able to protect yourself and family.
as a jew, i dont want the gov. to take my right to defend myself. my grandfather and his pals didnt have that right in east europe in the 20-30′s. if the jews then fought back we might not have had 6 million bbq’d
history repeats itself folks… and we are in a bad era for complacency…
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Johnee
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 12:11 pm
First of all, you referring to yourself as a “hard left lib commie socialist type” makes me extremely skeptical that you are a liberal. It suppose it could be an attempt at ha ha lampooning yourself, but it sounds an awful like Rush Limbaugh speak.
I would never refer to myself as a “commie socialist” even jokingly, cuz this is the bullshit and lies that the right wing nuts try to feed their blue collar minions.
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A Walkaway
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 12:50 pm
I think you need to think hard about how you describe yourself.
Communists and Socialists aren’t liberal… history reveals that they are actually reactionary conservatives, and communist countries are all very conservative (and repressed) in nature.
So you’re contradicting yourself, and describing yourself in terms that no self-respecting liberal would ever use.
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Johnee
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 5:06 pm
Hah. My sentiments exactly.
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djchefron
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 8:42 pm
I hate to be a nitpicker but communism and socialism are two different things?
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Reynardine
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 9:25 pm
Indeed, they are not. More later if you need it.
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SinghX
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 8:45 pm
…”as a jew, i dont want the gov. to take my right to defend myself. my grandfather and his pals didnt have that right in east europe in the 20-30′s. if the jews then fought back we might not have had 6 million bbq’d..
No one wants to touch this, so I will.
As a Jew, you never forget the horror or terror of past, but, arming yourself today isn’t going to stop the drum beat of the right wing fundamentalist coming down the pipe line for all those who aren’t one of them…
Today, they are preoccupied with going after the gays or the Muslim…We all know who’s next on their list as scapegoats because of the economic down turn. Hope you’ve started organizing a band of like-minded travelers, like the characters in “Inglorious Bastards” because, you’re already in trouble if you’re the only Jew at the firing range!
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Shiva (Moderator)
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 8:53 pm
I just didnt want to tell him that if the Jews were armed none of them would have made it to the gas chambers. They wouldnt have made it home for supper either
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Johnee
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 10:24 pm
Yeah and I do sympathize and agree with him on several points above.
However, it’s a little confusing,this one. I would say that you are half right in regards to the hardcore KKK/NEO-NAZI right wing racists but the other half of the dominionist worldview is: “We need to protect and defend Israel and the Jewish people at all costs”…..even though their reasons for wanting to do this are less than noble, because they have more to do with evangelical end times prophecy than anything else.
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SinghX
Dec. 16th, 2012 at 6:32 am
True, but any self-respecting American who isn’t a fundamentalist evangelical KNOWS better than to think they are going to “befriend” or embraced as “friend” of Jesus; I think that goes without saying…
The fundies aren’t trusted by anyone who “smells” them!
And, I’m pretty sure any individual with an ounce of Sehphardic or Ashakinazi Jew in their DNA feels the hair go up on the backs of their neck when someone like “Huck Sin” says he “luvs” them Jewish people and Israel. It’s like the Catholic Bishops who “believe” they will get a cut of the action if they help the fundies with the gay and abortion issues…
Dominionism goes only one way–their way, their pockets.
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Bill The Yaesuman
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 11:45 am
Huckabee is a moron.
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A Walkaway
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 1:01 pm
I’ve been thinking about this situation to a great length, and it’s been on the back of my mind since I first read about it.
Besides my fears and misgivings regarding the response I expected (and am seeing) from the people most like me in terms of thinking, I also think that some science is needed.
We’ve seen things like this all around the world… in Norway, England, and of course here. In all cases I’m thinking of, children were targeted.
I think examples where students were involved need to be handled separately, because in most of the cases I’ve looked into (going back to the 60s), bullying turned out to be a huge factor.
Why are these people targeting kids? I have my suspicions, but we need to find out the train of thought that leads to horror like this and then identify a way to derail that train at some point. No thought – no action.
What sort of cultural pattern would cause someone to follow that train of thought? How can we change cultures to prevent it?
It may be impossible to prevent the person from following the thoughts to their conclusion – so how do we spot the person traveling that road and prevent them from hurting others?
I know that horrors like this have gone on for many years… probably long before any of us were born.
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Johnee
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 5:05 pm
Good show and well said. I like you think a huge part of it is the culture, and any approach needs to be balanced and multi-tiered. Both Sarah and James are echoing these sentiments as well in their most recent articles.
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harris stein
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 1:25 pm
I’ve delayed commenting on this tragedy but now that the bible thumpers have weighed in it’s time for me to weigh in. Politicians of all stripes who politicize this for any reason are the scum of the Earth.
All of the posters on this blog know that I am a gun owner. I have made no secret of this. I am a disabled senior citizen who lives alone and I require some kind of self defense to keep from being a victim. I also, when I am feeling up to it, hunt birds and predatory animals. I believe that high capacity magazines should be much more tightly controlled. They should be illegal for all handguns and limited to 10 rounds for semi automatic rifles. I also believe that the gun show loophole should be closed. Here is the irony. An nra member would call me a liberal gun control nut. I am centrist and apolitical and a gunowner. I despise people who pander and politicize issues for their own self interest.
The sleazy scum at the nra have politicized gun ownership for their own self interest. Instead they should be politicizing how we treat each other as a society, denoucing bullying, and forcing us to look into our heart of hearts as to why we don’t have ready access to help with our own and our family’s mental health issues. Instead they glorify self serving, self indulgent behavior and justify this by reaching back to the philosophy of the self made rugged individual. That is nonsense. No human is an island. There is a hidden thread that connects us all.
Part of that thread is this. Hunting is our human heritage. For 2 million years that is how we put food on the table. That is why anthropologists call it hunter-gatherer not gatherer-hunter. When we became sedentary about 10 thousand years ago anthropologists called our life stye animal husbandry because it included raising domestic animals for food and farm labor.
Until, we as a society, look into our heart of hearts, these kinds of tragedies will continue to happen.
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James Threadgill
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 1:32 pm
Yes, we know all the disasters are punishments for the way the Founders wrote the Constitution. Another Fox column by a shyster who defends Wall Street thieves speaks on how this event shouldn’t be politicized, as if the Far Right Side hasn’t politicized everything, especially faith, which none of them truly have.
http://regressivewatch.org/wordpress/2012/09/28/who-would-jesus-hate/
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labman57
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 2:19 pm
The Huckster’s perception of God appears to be one of an ego-centric, malevolent, micro-managing sadist — somewhat akin to how many of them treat their wives.
It’s rather disturbing that so many members of the Religious Right believe that the Christian view of God is a supreme entity that would gladly sit on the sidelines and watch innocent young children be murdered in order to make a political point.
Curious. Some social conservatives claim that the tragedy could have been prevented if only religion was an integral component of the public school curriculum, while others insist that the mayhem would have been minimized if teachers were encouraged to keep loaded guns in their classrooms.
It would seem as though Obama was right — right wingers do indeed cling to their Bibles and bullets, expecting God and guns to solve their problems.
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fedded-up
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 2:31 pm
I heard this nonsense start almost immediately after the shooting, blaming “taking God out of the schools.” I was doing some serious hoping that it would be limited to the hate-mongers who seem to ALWAYS have something inanely stupid to say after a tragedy like this, but no, now it’s out there and being championed by an awful lot of people who use their brains more for hair growth and mucus production than anything else.
Putting aside the utterly bitter reality that the U.S. has nearly TWENTY TIMES the number of mass shootings than any other similar country in the world, I wish Mr. Huckabee and all the other hatemongers out there could please explain the mass shootings focused on religious institutions. Because, yes, there’s been a pile of those too:
Earlier this year some jackass shot up a Sikh meeting, killing 6. Oh wait, you think it’s all about your Christian God, I forgot…
hmmm, well, some Korean dude shot up a Korean Christian college in California in April….oh, wait, that was some furrin dude.
Hmmmm, yep, another lunatic shot up an Amish schoolhouse, selectively exterminating girls…well, you can see what THAT was all about.
Another whackjob murdered up a Living Church of God meeting – executing the pastor, his son and a whole bunch of others.
Then, of course, we had the Texas shoot-em-up at a Christian rock concert and teen prayer rally in Fort Worth.
Yup, I’m reasonably certain that all those establishments had NOT eliminated God from their respective churches/schools/whatever – but they’re just as dead, now aren’t they? I believe that if there is a Heaven and a Hell, there’s a really special place reserved for you and people like you, Mr. Huckabee, the ones who twist and turn everything into a soapbox for hate.
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A Walkaway
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 6:50 pm
FYI, I knew people who had tried to help Matthew Murray, who shot up HIS church in Colorado. What isn’t reported is that he was a throwaway- instead of walking away from a dominionist church, he for all purposes was THROWN away, although he was still living at home (under 18 as I remember) and his mother forced him to go to church.
From what was said, when the people tried to warn the police and get him stopped, the “authorities” wouldn’t believe them. Then the shit hit the fan and guess where the “authorities” came looking? The walkaway community. Today walkaways are preached against and blamed for it. The sad thing… the reason why he cracked was BECAUSE OF THOSE CHURCHES AND THEIR TEACHINGS. The walkaway community was trying to help him and get him away from violence and to take a more peaceful, healing path. I think he was too badly damaged and needed more intensive help (which the church wouldn’t allow because they don’t believe in it).
The thing that gripes me most is that it could have been prevented, but the “But it’s a CHURCH, it can’t be THAT BAD” mindset paralyzed everyone except those (the walkaway community) who knew how bad the damned dominionists can get, and nobody would listen because of it.
In every case of mass shooting that I can think of, the “religious right” had connections in the horror. Yet they deny it strenuously and refuse to accept responsibility for the harm they did to others.
I’m expecting to eventually find out – away from the mass media – that the shooter had been involved in a dominionist-type church or group in some way. That’s what happened in nearly every other case (I think Loughner may have not had dominionist connections, but he did have “sovereign citizen” connections.)
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Henry Bornstein
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 5:55 pm
If “God is good” and he is “the Almighty” and his son is allegedly “our Savior”, where the hell were they to prevent this horrible act. Huckabee is nothing more than a republican fundamentalist, ignorant moron and a complete sick fool. He and his republican/evangelical like thinkers are vile and evil and belong in mental institutions; and upon their deaths, they should rot in their Hell for eternity.
“Mike Huckabee: We’ve systematically removed God from our schools. Should we be so surprised that schools have become a place for carnage because we’ve made it a place where we don’t want to talk about eternity, life, responsibility, accountability?”
If there was a God or a Jesus Christ,(neither exist) they should have stopped this event. To blame the school and these poor little children and the suffering their families must go through, makes me vomit.
Except for private religious schools, all public schools should be absolutely secular. Religion should NEVER be discussed from a theological standpoint, but only from an objective historical perspective. Any teacher, who does not follow this rule should be immediately fired.
Huckabee and the ignorant fools who accept his words as gospel should read the US Constitution and the Amendments especially the Bill of Rights (the 1st ten), and the 14th Amendment. If they are not mentally blind and stupid, they will see that the Constitution is a Godless secular document and if these uneducated individuals learn anything about the history of the Constitution, they will see the intent the Drafters and the Founders, was to make the Constitution the secular document, that it is.
Henry Bornstein
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A Walkaway
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 7:00 pm
FYI – the person commonly called “Jesus” is accepted by scientists as having existed. As to any other claims, well, that’s a different story (and becomes a matter of belief rather than science). He may have even said some of what is ascribed to him (much of what is recorded were common sayings and beliefs of that time).
There is more evidence for the existence of Jesus than for other historic figures whose existence isn’t questioned.
I understand that it makes people more comfortable to think that Jesus never existed at all… – if people don’t want to accept that Jesus existed that’s their choice and decision, but it’s not one accepted by science.
As far as violence, the things that scientists/historians think Jesus probably did say runs counter to any violent tendencies found among “Good Christians” these days. There is evidence that Jesus had taught non-violent resistance to the Roman occupation of Israel at that time.
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Shiva (Moderator)
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 7:38 pm
I have a feeling he existed, as a revolutionary against Rome. For instance Judas Iscariot. His last name is not a name, its the name of the group he was in agaisnt Rome and the knife they used as a symbol. Israel wasnt looking for a king, they were looking to get rid of Rome.
Here is all the proof I have
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K8_jgiNqUc
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Johnee
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 8:28 pm
Yes, most scholars would agree with you. For instance there is no argument that Paul (or Saul) existed; we of course have a record of some of his letters in the New Testament…and it goes further, because Peter was a real figure and Paul knew Peter.
So it is extremely likely that other major figures like James were real as well. Thus, if the Apostles were real, it is highly unlikely that the contemporary leader of their religious movement was a figment of their imaginations.
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Fred
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 10:35 pm
God, does exist.
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Fred
Dec. 15th, 2012 at 10:18 pm
REPENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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SinghX
Dec. 16th, 2012 at 6:34 am
Define “repent” without all the explanation marks, Fred.
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Lvncali
Dec. 16th, 2012 at 12:09 am
Well there was a shooting at a Christian school earlier this year…
I guess this is a rather inconvenient truth for huckabubbah…
http://m.yahoo.com/w/legobpengine/news/cops-7-dead-3-hurt-christian-school-shooting-214742437.html?orig_host_hdr=news.yahoo.com&.intl=US&.lang=en-US
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Lvncali
Dec. 16th, 2012 at 12:13 am
Better yet lets have Fox News descredit what huckabubbah thinks…
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/03/students-hid-as-gunman-opened-fire-small-christian-school-in-california-7-dead/
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Inez
Dec. 16th, 2012 at 12:16 am
imagine that God was busy some place else when 9/11 murderers struck NYC, he missed out in New OrleaNS WITH kATRINA, because of the way they lived, with hurricane Irene he turned the other cheEk and the storm of the century, Sandy,he said NY, NJ, Conn, needed to modernize their dwellings, shops, boardwalks, sea walls, streets, and change the lives or residents by taking away their homes and belongings tHE FOREST FIRES THAT DESSIMATED western states, the drought that dried up farms mand livestock’s grazings, because they didn’t pray enough…Huckabee you can’t believe what you say. Get out of your humble digs and get out in the real world, if you can handle it!
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Shiva (Moderator)
Dec. 16th, 2012 at 12:41 am
Doesnt sound Like a god I want to follow. I will stick with doughnuts as a deity
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fedded-up
Dec. 16th, 2012 at 10:19 am
I don’t know Shiva….that hole would probably lead to impure thoughts…arrrgggghhhhh…
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Carolyn Smith
Dec. 17th, 2012 at 10:31 am
Apparently our educational system (with and without God) has failed us. We have produced people who are too lazy to earn knowledge for themselves and would rather believe the sound bites of idiots who say that “God and/or prayer has been banned from schools”. Or maybe they were too busy worrying about all the Bible nonsense to learn to read and comprehend.
All one has to do is read the damn federal law on prayer in schools. Nowhere does it ban it. It actually protects it, including the individual’s right to NOT be subjected to and/or required to listen to and/or participate in a religion they might find offensive. That is what church is for – to choose what YOU want to believe.
To me,it is neither here nor there whether it belongs in school. The issue is the fact that IT HAS NOT BEEN BANNED. Get your head out of your butts!
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tyburon
Dec. 17th, 2012 at 10:50 am
God have nothing to do with this act of evil mind.Who gave thi stupid opinion and the rest who share the same and blashfeme agaisnt God don’t have brains.there is God and evil.So who you want to blame stupid idiots go back to school
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knight4444
Dec. 17th, 2012 at 11:21 am
Not trying to pick on the republican party but wasn’t it the republican SAVIOR Ronald Wilson Reagan who dismantled so many community mental health opinions resulting in many mentally ill people to be in a homeless situation!!? Anyway the Huckabee fake phony christian groups the republican party recruits are actually putting a stain of christianity.
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