Go to Admin » Appearance » Widgets » and move Gabfire Widget: Social into that MastheadOverlay zone
Born to Breed: An Interview With Quiverfull Walkaway Vyckie Garrison
By: Sarah JonesJun. 25th, 2011more from Sarah Jones
Born to Breed: The Quiverfull Movement and its impact on patriarchal policies and right wing politics; an interview I conducted with Vyckie Garrison, a courageous woman who left the biblical patriarchal Quiverfull movement.
Sarah Jones: Can you define “Quiverfull movement” and what you’ve identified as the patriarchal beliefs behind it?
Vyckie Garrison: I like to define Quiverfull as a very powerful head trip. It’s an all-encompassing vision of a big, happy family which infects the mind and affects every aspect of a Believer’s life. The term “Quiverfull” comes from a reference in Psalm 127 which likens children to “arrows” in the hands of a mighty man, “blessed is the man who has his quiver full of them.”
Quiverfull Believers eschew all forms of birth control in favor of “trusting the Lord” with their family planning. The Quiverfull ideal embraces a “biblical” model (read, fundamentalist) of the traditional family which insists that the husband is the head of the household and the wife is the submissive “helpmeet.”
Sarah Jones: How do those beliefs manifest for wives and female children? Can you give us some examples of expectations of wives and daughters that might surprise our readers?
Vyckie Garrison: In practice, the Quiverfull ideals often result in larger-than-average families (think, Jim Bob & Michelle Duggar of TLCs “19 & Counting” fame) in which the woman stays at home having babies, homeschooling, homesteading, dressing “modestly,” and most importantly, serving and submitting to her “lord,” i.e., her patriarchal husband.
The Quiverfull lifestyle is extremely demanding and the only way a woman can hope to succeed is to rely heavily on her older daughters. It is expected that a Quiverfull daughter will be fully capable of running the household, including all meal-preparation, laundry duties, child care and homeschooling of younger siblings by the age of twelve. Many girls are doing all this by the time they’re eight or ten because their mothers are so consumed with birthing more and more “arrows” to fill the quivers of their husbands.
A Quiverfull daughter is taught from a young age that her purpose in life is to serve the man whom God has placed in authority over her. She serves her father while she lives at home (she does this primarily by assisting her mother in domestic duties and child care). She absolutely must remain a virgin and is taught to expect to meet and marry her future husband through a father-led match-making process called “courtship.” Her education is geared toward developing domestic skills ~ college is generally considered unnecessary and even dangerous for her spiritual well-being.
Sarah Jones: What justification was given for the rule of the patriarch and how does that fit in with mainline Christianity versus fundamentalist, extremist versions of Christianity?
Vyckie Garrison: It is my contention that the Quiverfull movement is regular Christianity lived out to its logical conclusions. When Christians teach “the husband is the head of his wife” (Eph. 5:23), Quiverfull Believers put that into practice ~ and nearly every time, the husband becomes a despot in his own home.
While the majority of Christians will have their excuses for why their wife has to work outside the home, or why they personally cannot have more than two children, or why it won’t work for them to homeschool. If you ask the average Evangelical what a truly godly, “biblical” family looks like, they will begin to list Quiverfull ideals:
• Husband as head of the household and final authority (Eph. 5:23)
• Wives submit to their husbands (Colossians 3:18)
• Obedient children (Eph. 6:1)
• Trust the Lord with family planning (i.e., no birth control ~ Psalm 127)
• Stay-at-home-mothers (Titus 2:3)
• Homeschool the children (Matthew 12:17 ~ “render unto God that which is God’s” ~ since children bear the image of God, parents ought not render them unto Caesar, i.e., government schools. See also, Deut. 6:7)
• Modest dress (1 Peter 3:3)
• Debt-free living (Romans 13:8)
• Political domination (Psalm 127 and The Dominion Mandate in Genesis 1:28)
In my experience, the “average Christian” believes most all of the principles of patriarchy taught in the Quiverfull movement, fortunately for Christian women, few actually put it into practice the way Quiverfull Believers do.
Sarah Jones: How did these beliefs impact your political positions while you were still in the movement, and were you encouraged to get your political worldviews from a particular source?
Vyckie Garrison: As a Quiverfull Believer, I considered myself “radically pro-life,” which I described this way:
“Why do Christians seek to limit the size of their families through the use of chemical birth control? The truth be told, our reasoning generally parallels that of the abortion culture – additional children will cause inconvenience, financial hardships, lifestyle constraints – all this coupled with the desire to separate sex from procreation. How can the Church expect to speak with any moral authority on the evils of abortion when we ourselves are guilty of the very anti-life values fueled by the family planning mentality?” [Excerpt from a column I wrote for the "pro-life, pro-family" newspaper which I published from 1993-2008.]
The most prominent “pro-life” groups such as National Right to Life, Concerned Women for America, etc., were much too wishy-washy for me. I was exposed to the most extreme aspects of Dominionism. I felt that James Dobson, Tony Perkins, even Don Wildmon were lightweights; I much preferred the uncompromising Randall Terry, and Paul dePairie was better yet. When Flip Benham of Operation Save America came to Nebraska, I baked chicken-pot pies for him and we packed all our friends and associates into our livingroom to hear Flip speak about what it really means to storm the gates of Hell (Planned Parenthood) and take back America for God.
A woman’s “choice” was anathema to me because I believed that I was not my own; I had been bought with a price (the blood of Christ ~ 1 Cor. 6:20) and therefore, I sought to “honor God with my body” which essentially meant dutifully birthing seven “foot soldiers for Jesus,” nearly losing my life on more than one occasion.
Sarah Jones: Do Sarah Palin and Michele Bachmann (both of whom share a belief in the bible replacing the constitution; i.e., a theocratic takeover of the American government) represent the beliefs you were taught and if so, how? If not, why?
Vyckie Garrison: When I was a fully-convinced Quiverfull believer, I did question how Sarah Palin could justify her political activities so long as she had children still living at home. I also thought it ironic that, according to the ideals she espouses, women should not hold authority over men, or even be allowed to vote for that matter.
Still, I supported Palin because she understands and promotes conservative Christian “family values.” I was especially impressed by her convictions with regard to “taking back America for God” — in my Quiverfull-colored opinion, Sarah Palin “got it.” Meaning, of course, that she has a decent understanding of Dominionist principles and she has a plan to lead America toward a “truly Biblical” (read, theocratic) society.
I left the Quiverfull movement before Michelle Bachman came into much prominence on the political scene, but … ditto for her.
Sarah Jones: How do you see this far right religious movement impacting far right politics today?
Vyckie Garrison: The extreme Quiverfull ideals are picking up momentum recently due to the following process:
Rampant FEAR is spreading among the Evangelical community. This fear is a result of the “culture wars” which the religious right perceives it is losing ground on all fronts: Gays are taking over, Feminists are taking over, Liberals are taking over, Atheists are taking over, Muslims are taking over! And to make matters worse, we are living in The End Times — the AntiChrist is poised to be revealed and Armageddon is right around the corner.
Between the culture wars and the Left Behind madness, this world is a very scary place for Christians, which leads more and more Christians to homeschool in order to protect their children from the influence of secular society. The Christian homeschool community is fertile ground (pun intended) for the promotion of Quiverfull ideals.
When parents attend a Christian homeschool fair, they will be offered Creation Science and Christian revisionist history curriculum … and they will also encounter a plethora of “biblical family living” materials. “Family Values” is a profitable niche market. What is being sold is protection: guaranteed methods for Christian parents to insulate and isolate their children from the big, scary, godless world.
As the Christian homeschool community flourishes, the peddlers of Quiverfull principles, such as Vision Forum, American Vision, Wallbuilders, the Home School Legal Defense Association, and Bill Gothard’s Institute in Basic Life Principles are enabled to exert more and more influence on right wing political thought and policy.
Thus we have Doug Phillips (president of Vision Forum Ministries, and son of Howard Phillips) urging Christians at the San Antonio Tea Party rally to “honor our fathers” (he’s talking about patriarchy), Congressman Dan Webster (R-FL) promoting male headship at Gothard’s Advance Training Institute conference, Mike Huckabee stating that he wishes every American could be forced at gunpoint to listen to David Barton’s Christian Reconstruction messages, the Family Research Council’s Values Voters Summit bestowing the “Pro-Family Entertainment Award” on Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar, etc. The entanglement of Quiverfull leaders with right wing politics is huge.
Sarah Jones: What was the most compelling reason for your departure from the movement?
My life as a devoted fundamentalist Believer had become a living hell of physical, mental and spiritual abuse. For all our efforts to know God, to love Him, discern His will and live out His precepts for a Godly home according to the Holy Bible, our family was going crazy. We hated ourselves and we hated each other and we all wanted to die.
The Quiverfull movement offers a one-size-fits-all model for family relations, but in truth, that never works. “Biblical family values” lock men and women into atavistic gender roles which do not allow individual families to maximize their strengths and compensate for weaknesses. In the end, it is unrealistic and unsustainable. The ultra-demanding lifestyle of Quiverfull is a recipe for abuse, neglect, burnout and insanity.
Sarah Jones: Many people may not be able to comprehend the courage it took for you to leave this movement. Can you please explain the cost of such a decision and what that says about the movement itself?
For me, it was more desperation than courage — it was either get out or die.
Because Quiverfull is an all-encompassing worldview, it consumes every aspect of a woman’s life — it IS her life. It is difficult enough for an abused woman to leave her husband, but add in half a dozen or more kids, no marketable job skills because she never went to college and has been out of the workforce for decades, loss of her entire support system since her extreme ideals have led to the alienation of all but a few “like-minded” Believers who will shun her the minute she questions the principles. Yikes!
Stir in the whole God-thing, and you have an overwhelming challenge. But if anyone can make it, Quiverfull women can; they are the some of the toughest, most resourceful and determined women ever. Through No Longer Quivering, I have met dozens of women who have left, or are in the process of leaving, the Quiverfull lifestyle. Not all become atheists, but none escape without serious modification of their faith.
Sarah Jones: After reading your blog, I began to clearly identify several patriarchal agendas that I (raised as a complicated Presbyterian) had previously only sensed trickling into our culture, source unknown. Knowing the roots of biblical patriarchy first hand, do you see it impacting our political landscape today in ways that perhaps someone without that experience couldn’t see?
Vyckie Garrison: Political domination is a core principle of the Quiverfull worldview. Quiverfull’s proof-text, Psalm 127, promises that the man whose quiver is full of arrows “will not be ashamed, but will speak with the enemies in the gate.” We were taught that in Bible times, the city gate was the place where male leaders made decisions regarding local government.
The whole point of having a quiver full of babies is to
1) out-populate the “enemy,” that is, the godless, liberal, lesbian feminists, and
2) launch those many arrows “straight into the heart of the enemy.” And by that, we meant that our children would grow up to be leaders in all the major institutions of our society: Faith, Family, Education, Art, Business, Media, and Government — this is known as the “Seven Mountains doctrine.”
I see the Quiverfull movement accelerating the implementation of patriarchal and dominionist ideas and policies using an impressive marketing saavy (see above) which is proving frightfully effective among the Evangelical population.
Hierarchy. Tradition. Control. Privilege. Conformity. Intolerance. Hegemony. These are the values of right wing politics. Under the guise of “family values,” the Quiverfull movement is bolstering the legitimacy of the Right’s misogynistic agenda. Where you’ve seen a trickle, Quiverfull is the break in the dam which is building up to a flood of extremism.
Whether by an appeal to tradition and authority, an appeal to nature, or an appeal to fear, Quiverfull leaders are providing the moral justification for right wing political battles which have been raging in our country for decades. Because these are thoughtful people with well-defined and high-minded propositions, their influence is giving wings to a vestigial body politic which thus far has been rightly grounded by the weight of the Right’s own discriminatory and inequitable baggage.
Let me give you just one example.
An uninitiated modern woman might think it’s irresponsible and impractical to toss out her birth control pills and leave her reproductive life “in the Lord’s hands.” But, let that woman spend a weekend with Nancy Campbell at an Above Rubies retreat, and she very well could come away with a new understanding of the power of motherhood and God’s vision for families. What higher purpose could there be ~ what better eternal use of her time, energy and talent ~ than to invest herself in the lives of her children? If she catches the vision, her entire life from that point forward will be consumed by her determination to conceive, birth, and raise as many of “God’s mighty warriors” as she is capable of producing.
In other words, Quiverfull teachers are masters at SPIN. They have the ability to convince a woman that she WANTS nothing more than to stay home, have lots of babies and serve her husband. In today’s world of seemingly unlimited choices for women, making the best choice can be an overwhelming responsibility and it’s extremely tempting for a woman to choose to have no choice.
Sarah Jones: Thank you, Vyckie. It’s been extremely enlightening speaking with you about the beliefs and agendas behind the biblical patriarchy infringing itself into our laws at the hands of radical religious leaders. Readers can read more about Vyckie and other women who have left the Quiverfull movement on Vyckie’s inspiring blog, No Longer Quivering.
Image: No Longer Quivering
Over the weekend, Mr. Romney proved that we dodged a crazy bullet when he was roundly defeated in the 20 ...
Michelle Bachmann has endorsed "The Marriage Vow: A Declaration of Dependence upon MARRIAGE and FAMiLY" ...
On his HBO program Real Time, Bill Maher called out Republican breeders for killing the environment with ...
by Vyckie Garrison @No Longer Quivering "Does God Hate Women?" author, Ophelia Benson recently ...
"The exchange of ideas, delving into the meaning and purpose of life ... all of this is excellent and I ...
english saddle
Jun. 25th, 2011 at 1:52 pm
Why doesn’t everyone know about this?!
Leah Burton
Jun. 25th, 2011 at 3:51 pm
There are many of us who have dedicated our every waking moment to getting people to see the extremism that is bleeding into our political culture and it is making headway. Spread the word, please!
stugod
Jun. 25th, 2011 at 3:16 pm
Bear with me for a minute. My own mother had serious issues with her own mother who was a product of a north Wales mining community. My mother ended up working for the prime Minister although this was through the Women’s Royal Air force and was in the form of working at Chequers. She had taken the view that my fathers mother had been a much better “person” and had always been there for her. I tried to emphasise that my fathers mother was brought up in area where jobs were plentiful. Halifax west Yorkshire. That being the textile centre of the world. Even if the work would not be skilled or for that matter profitable. Some opportunity would always prevent itself. Both of my grand mothers had large families one from a tiny mining village one from a busy industrial town. I always explained it to my mother as just an accident of geography. In any event both women had large families and for what ever reason it is some thing I thought about a lot. I know it is not strictly related to the subject matter but I have read all your post. so just wanted to relay my thoughts on it.
Sarah Jones
Jun. 25th, 2011 at 3:26 pm
Interesting, thanks for sharing. I think it’s important to note that neither she nor I were coming down on people who have large families, but as you point out, it’s not a condition of moral superiority or proof of being more faithful or Godly. It’s simply a choice.
maxine
Jun. 25th, 2011 at 3:54 pm
My mother was a devoted Roman Catholic, who sacrificed her life to obey the churches rules on breeding. Nine pregnancies, 5 live births, a life of regret and loss. She bore it well and with grace, but the sorrow of being a caged prisoner was always there. None of her 4 daughters had children. I’m the only one married (my second), one sister was divorced decades ago, two never married.
It was the only road she felt she knew. She did her best, but we all mourn, not for her, but for the life she never got to live.
Leah Burton
Jun. 25th, 2011 at 3:59 pm
Absolutely stellar, Vyckie! I know how difficult this whole topic is and the courage it took for you to walk away based on our many conversations and I applaud your very articulate responses here today.
And thank you to Sarah Jones for understanding enough about this to ask the right questions and then making this conversation available to us all!
It is true that you cannot lump all big families into the Quiverfull Movement. Painting a broad brush across any topic is simply wrong. But, there is a difference from the comment that “stugod” left and those who intentionally grow large families for all the reasons that Vyckie so clearly stated:
- warriors for God
- outgrow the hedonists
- breed to please God
…and all the other points above.
No one is equating this to the practice of procreating for any number of non-religious reasons from birth control availability, to literally needing the additional hands to work the soil back when that was a necessity.
Listen to this message. It has infested our conservative political machine in this country and these are not coincidences. That – is what is dangerous!
coomback
Jun. 25th, 2011 at 4:46 pm
kind’a reminds me of the mindset of the Pilgrims / Papa Pilgrim up here in McCarthy AK from a few years ago en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob...
Ennealogic
Jun. 25th, 2011 at 10:01 pm
My mind is blown. Are there still women today who are under such heavy, heavy proscriptions? Girls, women, who are taught to become baby machines? And never ever tell their husbands they have a headache?
Vyckie, thank you for sharing your story with us, and Sarah J, you were a natural to report it. I will give thanks to the powers that be that I was spared such close-mindedness.
Cathy
Jun. 25th, 2011 at 10:10 pm
I watched the Duggar’s program one time, and immediately could see all of the points Vyckie made during the interview above. The children were seen, but not heard. Michele in her modest outfit, smiling continuously. And Papa Duggar strutting around! OMG!! And they have gotten a new house, trip to Disneyland, etc (saw the commercials) because they are TV stars now. I am appalled that in 2011 this is happening. Women have brains! I believe in God, but do not believe women are to be subservient to any other person. We should all be allowed to reach our full potential in any area we choose to pursue. Maybe God is a Woman! Best wishes to all who are choosing to leave the constrictions of groups like these, and may they find peace in their new lives.
CougInPortland
Jun. 25th, 2011 at 10:23 pm
Quiverfull? When the Duggar’s 19th child is born at 1.8 ounces, this to me is a sign from God to STOP. What quality of life will this child have?
I grew up in a small town with 2 HUGE Catholic families like the Duggars that could not stop having babies. Prayers were always asked for blood tranfusions needed for their newborns (early 1970s). This is MADNESS and not what God intended through the scripture passage.
Ennealogic
Jun. 25th, 2011 at 10:33 pm
What does it take for someone raised in the “Quiverfull” belief set to open their eyes and see? Vyckie, what did you learn and how did you learn it in order to become ex-Quiverfull and offer to help others?
Vyckie Garrison
Jun. 26th, 2011 at 12:00 am
Ennealogic ~ for me, the turning point was when I dared to engage in an email correspondence with my uncle, Ron who is an atheist. The thing that most confused me and totally threw a wrench in my whole christian paradigm is this: he’s a genuinely nice guy. I fried my brain trying to figure out how that could be possible. It totally did not fit with everything I believed about “truth” and “faith” and humanity.
The key to waking Quiverfull Believers from their fantasy dream world is relationships with good people living authentically in reality.
Here’s a helpful article from No Longer Quivering:
nolongerquivering.com/200...
Elizabeth
Jun. 26th, 2011 at 1:31 am
thank you for that information. I, too, wondered how one can break through the programming and be supportive of creative change.
newmeximan
Jun. 25th, 2011 at 11:34 pm
The key phrase in the article, to and in the evangelical movement, is discern His will. The definition of discernment among evangelicals and fundamentalist Christians is to create meaning in chaotic world. Finding a way to explain why things happen is what humans have been trying to do since the split between the Cro-magnons and Neaanderthals. It is the basis for all beliefs in the supernatural.
This, of course, is where the danger lies. Life is a series of chaotic events, for some more than others. There is no external meaning for what happens that we can not control. The danger comes when a group of people look to one person for answers, and then take action based on an interpretation. A need fulfilled in a weal person by someone who is able to impose their will upon others.
The second point I’d like to make is that the American X-tians greatest fears have come true two weeks ago – the birth rate for non-Hispanic Whites is now less than minority births. In states like Texas, Florida, Arizona and California – this watershed moment took place years ago. It is now based on national averages, and it means that the moment whn the minority population exceeds the WASP population will come sooner than predicted in 2030.
As Malia Litman points out in her article today, the GOP has an internal conflict to resolve: opposition to abortion increases the birth rate for all, and will accelerate the ‘browning’ of America, and birth rate increases will increase the national debt through the increased need for social services we can not afford due to our current debt service.
The conservatives can no longer afford to be pro-life and pro-family. Americans living at or below the poverty level exceeds 50% of the population.
According to a recent PBS show on the American evangelical movement, using a panel of diverse theologians, the evangelical movement is graying out, and will be diminished to a very small group by 2030. They simply can not deliver on their discernment’s, and the fear they try to instill in their youth, like Vyckie, does not manifest itself in the ‘real’ world they eventually move into.
My hope and goal is to continue to keep the Dominionists from manifesting their goals before their base is dead from old age.
SmilingAhab
Jun. 29th, 2011 at 11:10 pm
Although if at least 75% of those new brown people pay their SS/Med taxes, the system is restructured to no longer mirror the male bread-winner family and the tax caps are removed then all three services would be sustainable indefinitely.
While they may grey out by 2030, we must remember that it is the cornered animal that strikes hardest.
Elizabeth
Jun. 26th, 2011 at 1:38 am
I think the challenge to many of us who call ourselves Christian is to show by our lives that Christianity is a lot broader than their “discernment”. Discernment is a forever project. I don’t find that there is a “one size fits all” answer. God given gifts and talents are diverse, and I believe, meant to be so. While others are frequently helpful with the discernment process; no-one can tell someone else what God intends for them.
April
Jun. 26th, 2011 at 1:52 am
It is actually the opposition to birth control that will greatly increase the birth rates. 19 states currently have “personhood” bills or initiatives in the works that would outlaw birth control pills for everyone! CO has voted this down twice.
The biggest danger that everyone needs to understand is how this movement wants to ban birth control for all. That is also why they are going after Planned Parenthood.
Laurie
Jun. 26th, 2011 at 6:57 pm
Years ago, I was telling people that the utimate goal of the anti-choice movement was a ban on birth control. No one seemed to take me seriously. These fundamentalists are a scary bunch.
sikiş
Jun. 26th, 2011 at 2:50 am
I think the challenge to many of us who call ourselves Christian is to show by our lives that Christianity is a lot broader than their
drsolo
Jun. 26th, 2011 at 9:31 am
In the days when the bibles were written (before vaccines and antibiotics) only 2 out of 10 children would reach maturity. The poorer the nutrition of the mother and children, the fewer survive birthing and childhood. In some traditions children werent even named until they were 1 years old due to infant mortality. This still happens in 3rd world countries.
That need is gone, in most cases it is all male ego and making up nonsense to brainwash susceptible women.
Eykis
Jun. 26th, 2011 at 10:14 am
Terrific article. Thanks Sarah and Vyckie. This movement is truly hard to understand much less accept in today’s society. These people (much like those in the FLDS) go on welfare to support all of these “arrows”. The Duggars make me ill – it is obvious it is not the “reality” for most in these fundie movements.
My own mother had 5 children, as a good Catholic. She used to wonder why 2 of her children nver married and two only had one child and the other two children. We grew up in a lovely neighborhood in Dallas, full of families just like ours — but the idea of so many children did not appeal to anyone I grew up with so we learned early the value of birth control.
Vyckie Garrison
Jun. 26th, 2011 at 2:35 pm
Generally, Quiverfull couples are emphatic about not accepting government assistance ~ even though a large portion of them qualify financially and would be considered living at or below poverty level.
There is an emphasis on debt-free living, frugality and self-sufficiency. It is considered a lack of faith to accept government welfare.
This principle, combined with unlimied pregnancies, etc. often leads to horrific neglect and abuse. Please read here for an example of how this ideal nearly got me killed:
nolongerquivering.com/200...
drsolo
Jun. 26th, 2011 at 9:32 am
The American Christian Taliban.
coomback
Jun. 26th, 2011 at 2:46 pm
exactly
ProChoiceGrandma
Jun. 26th, 2011 at 10:50 am
Before the 2008 campaign, I had never heard of “Political Dominionists” or their Seven Mountains doctrine. Then I saw the video of Sarah Palin with the witch hunter Pastor Thomas Muthee. That raised the hackles on the back of my neck and I began researching my fingers to the bone. These radical fundamentalists have been infiltrating our PTA’s, city, county and state commissions and boards for years!
I can thank Sarah Palin for one thing – shocking my previously apathetic view of politics into taking a much more active role! Leah Burton’s research has been a great source of information. Sarah Jones is my hero. Thank you for this GREAT article!
sherriww
Jun. 26th, 2011 at 11:06 am
I just cant figure out when all of this came to be,and snuck up on us!? I thought that people these days were generally better informed and that most limited their families to as many children as they might be able to raise responsibly.And today,most all women work outside the home as well,with little time or desire to be”under some mans thumb!”Now,I personally do have six children,simply because I wanted several.However,I could not possibly raise that many in todays circumstanses.And,tho I wish it could have been different,I had to work 6days a week,when my children were growing up,in order to support them.That was probably not so good for the kids,but they did all grow up to be fine people and not one ever got into any trouble,so that was a blessing.I have always believed in God and prayed,and so on,but I never made it a” burden”,or a” complication” in life.My children have all had smaller families,and all have been able to give their children a pretty good life.There have always been religious extremes,but something must be triggering all this nonsensesical thinking today.One can only hope that good sense picks up among the population once again,and moves beyond these mostly right-ring, fanatical mindsets of today.I believe everyone should discourage this type of behavior and we certinly should NOT elect ANY officals,of any type,who have these extreme outlooks!We dont NEED it, and America does NOT need it right now!
Georgia Eliot
Jun. 26th, 2011 at 12:17 pm
Thank you.
Susan
Jun. 26th, 2011 at 1:54 pm
Many of those who are drawn into these forms of abuse and extremism are people who truly want to be closer to God, and these extremists play into that desire by promising that people will be closer to God if they (fill in the blank with your “favorite” extremist religious group’s teaching). They create an atmosphere of fear of retribution from God. If you are not on their “page” you are not close to God.
If you are not close to God (their definition of whatever that may be) you will, at best, lose heavenly rewards. At worst, you will burn in hell forever. They steal one’s ability to think.
Thank you Vyckie, and Sarah, for this interview.
Glenn H. Morrow
Jun. 27th, 2011 at 2:47 am
Thank you, Sarah and Vyckie, so much for this insightful article. Scary stuff, and more people need to be aware of it.
At the same time, we need to respond to such ideological campaigns against civil rights calmly, and with measured reason. We can’t let the fear of what these people are out to do rule us, or we’re no different than so many of them.
The leaders of movements such as this use fear to control their followers — and possibly their opponents as well. Remember that fear is something to be conquered, not obeyed.
Let’s also try to remember that fundamentalists are human too. Most are misguided or ignorant rather than malicious. Among the leaders, there are those who may be manipulative and fueled by greed, but the majority are well-intentioned victims. Vyckie’s story proves both this, and that the answer is education.
Again, thanks to both you awesome women for this article.
Laurel
Jun. 30th, 2011 at 3:02 pm
How sad that Vyckie has been so hurt from her involvement with what she calls the Quiverfull movement. What is sadder still, is that in her pain and anger, she has irresponsibly pandered to those who seek ammunition against Christians simply because their lives shine a light on the darkness. Is there a lack of discernment among some who call themselves Christians? Sure. But most women who’ve been blessed with multiple children and who find immense fulfillment in putting family life above career are smart, creative, compassionate and very strong women.
Sarah Jones
Jun. 30th, 2011 at 3:16 pm
I wonder if you have any idea how repulsively arrogant and smug your comment sounds. You do not have a line to Jesus or God, so don’t you dare come here and judge other people as being in the darkness.
Who do you think you are to judge Vyckie or anyone else here? You are no better than anyone else.
Shame on you for not showing love and compassion, and instead shielding your cult like beliefs behind motherhood. No one is dissing motherhood here, and it’s absurd that you take refuge there.
Laurel
Jul. 1st, 2011 at 4:00 pm
So,simply expressing an opinion (as a woman who never heard of the Quiverfull movement until this article) that differs from yours makes me repulsive, smug, arrogant and cult-like? Am I to understand that the only opinions allowed in response to Vyckie’s story are those you agree with? This does not seem very tolerant or compassionate of you.
Sarah Jones
Jul. 1st, 2011 at 4:25 pm
Get back to me when you stop assuming everyone who doesn’t agree with you is in the “darkness”. With your kind of light, Jesus is going to need a bullhorn to save anyone. I am fully aware of what you really think about all of us, as if your comment left any room for doubt (try stat counter some day). Not only that, but your comment is verbatim the sort of propaganda pushed by holier than thou intolerants.
I surely did “tolerate” your comment, by publishing it. That doesn’t mean I have to like it, now does it. So now only you can judge others, but if I judge you back, you’re all up in arms. That’s right, when Jesus came to give free speech to the Americas, he only handed it out to people who KNEW they were the saved people. Pharisee.
Laurel, let me give you some advice. If you want to be treated with courtesy and respect, you need to treat others that way. That, my friend, is in the Bible. Try it, you might like it.
Laurel
Jul. 1st, 2011 at 9:37 pm
There was nothing discourteous in the straightforward way I expressed my thoughts on this subject. You were offended because you didn’t like what I said. For honest discussion, you must be willing to allow differing opinions and not attempt to bully those with whom you disagree.
Sarah, you sound like a very angry, reactive person. Perhaps you’ve been hurt by religious people. Genuine Christianity is not about religion, but about a relationship with the living God through Jesus. I hope you find what your soul thirsts for and will pray for you.
I am deleting the link that brought me to this sight, so you don’t need to reply to me, as I won’t be popping in any more. It seems to me that civil, honest discussion on this sensitive topic cannot occur. I wish you the peace of Christ.
Leah L Burton
Jun. 30th, 2011 at 4:26 pm
Like Vyckie, I am far too familiar with these attempts to degrade the discussion from members of the very bible-based cult we work to expose. They are easily identified in their expressions of superiority and condescending faux concerns.
They are also easily identifiable as separate from mainstream Christians by their inability to shake themselves from the fog they are enslaved by in this sect that teaches them there is only one path to salvation and to critically think and question their roles is a sin against God.
Now THAT is sad…
Given that I know a great deal about Vyckie’s story (that would take a book to convey) what this sanctimonious commenter overlooks are the things she does not know – i.e. every pregnancy caused serious health risks to Vyckie, but it was her faith in this radical Movement that kept her putting her own life at risk to continue breeding. A blessing? Not so much…except to those like-minded members indoctrinated by this man-made theology.
Obviously, this person is a Quiverfull member/sympathizer whose nerve was struck by Vyckie’s interview. They really hate it when members “fall away” from the fold! We just have to remember that they are a minority in America and in fact in some of these fringe sects of Dominionism such as the Quiverfull adherents, the women aren’t allowed to vote. So we read these remarks, note them, and move on. Mainstream Christians will be able to hold their heads high once these extremists are recognized for who they really are.
This quote truly sums it up…
“It is easier to write on water, than to argue with a religious zealot”.
Sarah Jones
Jun. 30th, 2011 at 4:39 pm
Bravo.
bella
Jun. 30th, 2011 at 11:07 pm
Excellent reply to that last sanctimonious statement!!
A.Roddy
Jul. 2nd, 2011 at 6:56 pm
Talking of the Duggars, it is easy to get caught up in them. They seem so perfect: no debt, well-behaved kids, and a humongous house. I was a fan of theirs for all of three months until I dug deeper into their beleifs. It is easy to be ‘debt-free’ when you are subsidized by religious organizations, generous donations of time, money, and labor. I try to tell them on the Facebook fan page reality tv isn’t always real. Of course, TLC isn’t going to show you the ones struggling.
Funny, someone brought up on the FB fan page yesterday Michelle and Jim bob claim to be tolerant but are associated with Focus on the Family. The Duggars a deny all they want but they are Quiverfull.