Go to Admin » Appearance » Widgets » and move Gabfire Widget: Social into that MastheadOverlay zone
After Campaigning from the Pulpit, Right Wing Churches Must Lose their Tax Exempt Status
The simple phrase “All men are created equal” has been called an immortal declaration, and perhaps the single phrase of the United States Revolutionary period with the most grand continuing importance even though after 236 years there is still inequality in America. It is ironic that Thomas Jefferson wrote those prescient words because if he were alive today he may be astounded that despite his “wall of separation” between government and religion in the Constitution, this country still gives preferential treatment to religious organizations to the detriment of the country’s economic well-being and at the expense of taxpayers. It is time to stop forcing taxpayers to fund religion with the ridiculous tax-exempt status to bring a semblance of truth this country’s “immortal declaration” asserted over two centuries ago.
Religious organizations are given consent to declare themselves non-profit charitable organizations by simply signing and filing 501 (c)(3) papers with the Internal Revenue Service. They, unlike other non-profits, are exempt from keeping accounting records, and the only requirement to be exempt from paying taxes is that they refrain from endorsing, preaching against, or supporting any candidate from the pulpit. However, religious groups around the country break their agreement with the IRS with impunity, and it has prompted a group in Wisconsin to say enough.
The group, the Freedom From Religion Foundation filed a lawsuit on Wednesday against the IRS for failing to audit thousands of churches that violated federal tax law by engaging in partisan advocacy. The lawsuit alleges, “The Internal Revenue Service, under the direction of the Defendant Shulman, has followed and continues to follow a policy of non-enforcement of the electioneering restrictions of §501(c)(3) against churches and other religious organizations. As a result, in recent years, churches and religious organizations have been blatantly and deliberately flaunting the electioneering restrictions of §501(c)(3), including during the presidential election year of 2012.” Back in October, in a flagrant violation of 501(c)(3) rules, over 1,600 preachers engaged in Pulpit Freedom Sunday and actively campaigned from the pulpit to challenge the IRS rules that allow them to leach money from taxpayers.
A spokesperson for Freedom From Religion Foundation said, “This looks like the only way to get some action out of the IRS,” and that “the tipping point was the braggadocio of 1,600 pastors claiming they endorsed from the pulpit. The number of complaints we’ve received has been escalating, and we have no explanation from the IRS. This is our way of finding out what is going on.” Indeed, what is going on is so-called men of god breaking the agreement they made with the IRS with impunity and it is happening all across America with increasing regularity. In Virginia and Pennsylvania for example, at polling places religious voter guides titled, “An Impartial, Non-Partisan Guide to the November 6th Election“ were openly displayed that asserted President Obama opposes “religious liberty” and the “appointment of conservative justices,” while claiming Republican candidate Willard Romney supports both. The religious voter guide also says President Obama supports “open homosexuality in the military” and “government control of healthcare,” while Romney opposes both. The guides were from the legislative arm of the Pennsylvania Family Institute and the state’s affiliate of the Family Research Council (FRC) and Focus on the Family headed by evangelical fanatic Tony Perkins. The guides represent campaigning at a polling place, and besides violating election laws, because churches are 501(c)(3) entities, they violate IRS rules.
The sense of entitlement by a wide swath of Christian religions has exceeded just living off taxpayer largesse and tax-exempt status. A deceptive initiative on Florida’s ballot last week is another sign that regardless the special privileges churches enjoy, they can always find other ways to subvert the Constitution and bilk taxpayers out of their hard-earned tax dollars to fund their tax-exempt endeavors.
Amendment 8, a Republican-backed measure aimed at repealing a constitutional ban on using state money “directly or indirectly” to fund any “church, sect or religious domination” which includes religious schools, failed to garner 60% of the vote and failed. The sole purpose of the Republican religious measure was implementing a voucher system to allow Christians to use taxpayer money for tuition at private religious schools. The amendment carried the deceptive “religious liberty” title, but enough Floridians were literate enough to read the amendment and reject it for what it was; forced taxpayer funding of religion. It is a double insult to taxpayers because besides being forced to pay for someone else’s religious instruction, the religious schools are exempt from paying taxes on their income. It is similar to Willard Romney’s use of tithes that benefited him and the Mormon cult.
In Romney’s case, he gets to write off his membership dues (tithes) to enter the Mormon Temple on his tax return, and the church that invests his tithes in extensive for-profit business ventures is exempt from paying taxes on the tithes and the profits from businesses owned by the church. If one adds the exemption from paying property taxes and double-dipping by church clergy, the local community, state, and federal government are all deprived of much-needed revenue. Churches all benefit from law enforcement, fire fighters, and infrastructure funded by taxpayers and they should not be exempt from contributing to fund the services they use. Proponents of taxpayer-funded church and clergy entitlements claim religious organizations do important work in their communities and deserve to benefit from other Americans’ tax dollars, but all things being equal, they do not do as important work as nurses, police officers, firefighters, or school teachers who pay their fair share in income and property taxes. In fact, one can safely argue that many religious groups do untold damage in their communities by opposing gay rights and women’s right to choose as well as forcing their beliefs on secular entities like public schools. It is little wonder the Freedom From Religion Foundation filed suit against the IRS to force them to enforce 501(c)(3) rules, but there is a simpler solution than suing the IRS to pressure them to do their job.
Regardless if religious organizations abuse their agreement with the IRS or not, it is long past the time to end their government-sanctioned and taxpayer-funded entitlements once and for all. There is no reasonable excuse to allow any church, or preacher, to avoid paying their fair share like every other American, and if they do not have a tax-exempt agreement with the IRS, they are free to preach from the pulpit to their heart’s content. Another hazard of allowing tax-exempt organizations and their preachers to campaign from the pulpit is the risk of becoming outlets for tax-deductible, unreported campaign money. Political contributions are not tax-deductible, but if donors give to churches that campaign for a specific candidate or party, they can write off their campaign contributions giving them preferential treatment over every American, but that is what churches expect; preferential treatment for…what is it they do?
Many Christian churches serve a useful purpose, do not campaign from the pulpit, and contribute to their communities, and maybe they should be commended for doing what Jesus commanded. However, they should not be treated any differently than any other American who volunteers, donates, or helps their community and still pay taxes. The Constitution is explicit about two things; religion must be kept separate from the government, and every American is equal, and until every church, temple, and preacher is held to the same standards as a carpenter, waitress, or window washer, America will remain steeped in inequality and communities, states, and the federal government will be deprived of much needed revenue. America gives enough preferential treatment and entitlements to the rich, corporations, churches, and the oil industry, and in the spirit of equality, it is time for Americans to demand that the government ends all subsidies and insist that churches, like the wealthy, start paying their fair share.
For the past two years, there has been a fair amount of talk concerning shared sacrifice. In theory it i ...
Throughout history, masses of people developed governments and standardized rules to maintain order and ...
One of the benefits of citizenship in America is the protection afforded to every resident based on prin ...
When the Constitution's framers wrote the Bill of Rights, they had a profound purpose for the first amen ...
Most Americans comprehend that when two parties enter into a contract, they are legally bound and commit ...
Judy M
Nov. 18th, 2012 at 9:13 am
Amen!
Reynardine
Nov. 18th, 2012 at 9:26 am
A stand-alone house of worship should have an exemption for up to two acres and a hall + parish house for its property and a modest exemption for clergy salary and parish expenses, so long as it is not drawing money from a central authority or engaging in electioneering. Anything bigger or more political than that should pay taxes like anyone else.
djchefron
Nov. 18th, 2012 at 9:48 am
While I agree, this is a fight we will not win.First it would take an act of congress and knowing more than half are the american taliban it wont get out of committe.Second remember the hoopla over the so called war on christmas?Well times that by a thousand with the usual trolls egging on the gullible with their fear mongering and out right lies.I can see the ads right now”See we told youObama is a muslim and you know sharia law is next for us,the god fearing real americans.Leave this alone we have much bigger fish to fry.
A Walkaway
Nov. 18th, 2012 at 11:16 am
Bigger fish to fry?
This might just be the turning point, if we can win it (and since it is the law of the land, only a glaring, MASSIVE move of injustice could keep it from going forward). It’s what has been needed for decades… they were doing the “voter’s guides” in the Episcopal church we used to attend, and when I was in the Assemblies (1979-1982), of course we all knew who we were supposed to vote for (with lots of nudge-nudge wink-winks).
The people behind the problems we face are not nice people. They’re violent, unforgiving and have very long memories. They’re the reason why the Koch bros (and like ilk) have gotten away as much as they have. The dominionists are the glue that holds the whole monolith together, and you destroy the glue, the rest falls.
Doing away with tax-exempt status would severely hurt our small UU church, but I’m willing to deal with that if we can break the backs of the megachurches that, for instance, try to send people to convert us. Once they loose their power, the media might not be so willing to kowtow to their preachers and start reporting the news with more accuracy (and reporting on things that should have been big-type front page headline stuff). Exposure is their kryptonite, but so is having to report on their finances (actually another form of exposure).
This move by the Freedom From Religion Foundation actually gives me another glimmer of hope.
harris stein
Nov. 18th, 2012 at 1:19 pm
I agree. The hard core Christian fundies are the biggest fish in the pond despite the First Amendment. How did they get that way? Corrupt politicians pandering for votes. Now corrupt politicians and their fundie minions are trying to circumvent the first amendment entirely by saying that god and the bible takes precedence over the constitution and they take their values from god and the bible, not the US Constitution.
This nonsense won’t stop until an amendment is added to the constitution that explicity removes religion or references to god from any government activity or law. Right now corrupt politicians can act with impunity while pandering for votes among religious fundies and their minions from the pulpit are able to influence elections despite laws that are supposed to prevent this.
djchefron
Nov. 18th, 2012 at 1:23 pm
Yes I said bigger fry to fry.Look like I said I agree and I am a high bishop of the Church of the Flying Spaggetti Monster.Why waste politcal capitol on a fight you will not win?IMHO we need to fight for jobs,infrastruture spending remember 2 if not 3 supreme court justices apointments will be coming up.With AHCA being implemented wont it be better to move our reps towards single payer?See you not just going after the kooks and the american taliban, you will also have to fight the catholic church and every one else from A TO Z.I just want to say dont pick a losing battle you wont win.Pick your battles on your grounds and in the end you will win the war.
A Walkaway
Nov. 18th, 2012 at 5:23 pm
I know the size of the fight. I’ve already been in it, and paid the price for openly resisting them. In fact, I think I understand more about the fight and the danger we face than most people.
Yes, we are fighting against a majority of Americans, and especially those with power. I wish it wasn’t so, but the problem is that a handful of groups have been deliberately invading and taking over other churches for decades and we’re dealing with the results. The churches we fight now used to understand and support separation of church and state. That’s no longer the case. Shoot – the Southern Baptists used to be one of the biggest supporters of the constitution – look what’s happened to them! The people that this lawsuit would go after are actually the core of the movement and we have a chance to strike a blow that will have a large, long-term effect. It might just tip the scales in our favor!
We can not, CAN NOT give up on the fight and focus all of our resources on other issues. We stop fighting against those churches and trying to stop them, we’ll end up in a theocracy. The thing is, we have law on our side… the very constitution. We’re fighting for one of the foundations of this country. The fight is being thrust on us, and if we back up, they’ll just move forward and still be pushing. That’s how they do it. They’re counting on “advice” like yours to weaken the opposition to their theocratic goals. It’s called psychological warfare. They’re masters at it… the dominionists have been using thought control (if not flat-out brainwashing techniques) for decades… maybe even a century or more. They’ve refined their techniques and gotten more effective.
Finally, those churches prattle about “taking responsibility” and “actions have consequences”. They need to experience some of that… they don’t expect consequences and think they are above the law.
1voice1vote
Nov. 18th, 2012 at 12:04 pm
Now is not the time to hold them accountable? I empathize with your position, and respectfully disagree.
With clear knowledge of the boundaries of their 501(c)(3) contracts with the government; with forethought/premeditation and malice, these religious institutions chose to break that contract. “Don’t do the crime if you’re not willing to do the time.” They broke the agreement – said agreement is null and void.
Unlike the GOP, liberals are ready, willing and ABLE to multitask. Now is when they crossed the line. Now is when fairness and justice demand that they be held accountable.
A Walkaway
Nov. 18th, 2012 at 5:24 pm
Well put.
Eykis
Nov. 18th, 2012 at 10:42 am
Any church with more than 50 congregants should pay taxes.
Rey,
I don’t know where you live, but the two-acre idea here in TN is unbelievable. The mega-churches have purchased prime land and pay no taxes – no property taxes or otherwise to upkeep the roads that lead to their tax-exempt pulpit politicking. It is disgusting. They even advertise on the radio here in Nashville. Very political, very non-exempty and owners of large tracts of prime real estate.
Eykis
Nov. 18th, 2012 at 10:46 am
One example of the “free stuff” given to churches. Here in Nashville they get free radio time and use it to promote RWNJs and Xtian Hate ala en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gee...
They should pay taxes – LOTS OF TAXES for Anti-American activity and Xtian Lies.
Look up cornerstone.org – Madison, TN (suburb of Nashville)
Reynardine
Nov. 18th, 2012 at 12:42 pm
A fair number of modest-sized churches in Florida have two acres, occupied by (a) the church proper; (b) a rectory or parish house; (c) possibly a sunday school, with the rest in *non-income-producing* grounds. You can’t really count congregants, but it seems reasonable that the main hall should not seat more than a hundred or so.
Anne
Nov. 18th, 2012 at 10:53 am
They really do need to be taxed, especially if they insist on preaching toxic nonsense in God’s name. It looks like it’s mostly Republican-leaning religious organizations that are guilty of this kind of thing. And they are making money from gullible fools who believe them when they call the president everything but a child of God, while they exalt the proven liar and predatory capitalist a.k.a. Willard Romney, or spout some other rightwing nonsense. It’s bad enough that they enrich themselves on the backs of people who often have difficulty making ends meet without paying their share of taxes to the very society that makes their existence possible.
clarence swinney
Nov. 18th, 2012 at 11:06 am
HOW CONSERVATIVES RUINED A GREAT DEMOCRACY
A NEW CORPOCRACYRuined our great Savings and Loan Institution
Closed Fairness Doctrine that has Limbaugh types on our public airwaves
Closed Revenue Sharing
Since 1980, initiated our involvement in 10 foreign conflicts
Repealed Glass Steagall—took deposits in over 7000 banks and put 50% in 5 (Too Big To Fail)
and 80% in 10 (Too Big To Fail) Banks.
Modernization of Commodity Markets—from investment to Casino Derivative Of America
2 very dumb invasions of two of most unarmed and destitute nations.
Ruined our International reputation as a Do Good Christian nation to Big Bully Devil
Stood by as freak marketeers ruined our housing industry
Stood by as Casino Derivative Of America ruined the world financial industry
Impeached a great president for petty political gains that created a long term animosity between the parties
Attempted to destroy the safety nets that make a great middle class
Implemented Tax Codes that permitted a redistribution of Wealth to top (10%) who now own (73% )of Net Wealth and (83%) of Financial Wealth and take (50%)of all individual income
They have taken America to a rank of (#2) as Least Taxed in OECD nations; (#2) as least taxed corporations; and sadly to (# 4) on Inequality.
Since 1980, their Spend & Borrow policies, mainly, were responsible for adding 14,000 billion to our 1000B Debt when they started in 1981.
Fought the Great GI Bill.
Fought the WWII Draft
Installed strict laws which have loaded our prisons with non-violent offenders which make us world leader in prison populationCONCLUSION-WANT TO VIEW END OF AN EMPIRE THEN YIELED TOTAL CONTROLOF GOVERNMENT TO REPUBLICAN CONSERVATIVES AS WAS DONE IN 2001-2002-2003-2004=2005-2006- WHICH WILL BE JUDGED AS, OUTSIDE OF THEIR GREAT DEPRESSION, THE SIX WORST YEARS IN OUR HISTORYIMAGINE THEM IN CONTROL FOR 12 YEARS????
robyn ryan
Nov. 18th, 2012 at 11:15 am
The 1st amendment establishes the STATE as the wall between religion and the individual citizen.
It is the duty of American government at all levels to shield the citizenry from the dictates of any religious dogma.
You can be a pro-life Satanist in the privacy of your own space. But the State has the duty to protect other citizens from attempts to force your dogma on others through law.
A Walkaway
Nov. 18th, 2012 at 11:22 am
That is really an interesting take on the first amendment, and it’s correct.
The state has certainly let down a lot of people and failed to perform its duty. It’s about time that the damned “Good Christians” learn what “NO!” means, along with “Get out of my face and stop shoving your religion onto me!”.
(Maybe even our school will limit where the jackleg street preachers can preach again – get them away from the classrooms and where students try to find a peaceful place to eat and study.)
Betty Bentley
Nov. 18th, 2012 at 3:31 pm
I agree, including the left wing churches, which I know preach politics from the pulpit. In fact, Michelle Obama, herself, said on television that all people in the churches should be talking about politics. I’m sure she was talking to the black Christian churches, not thinking that the predominately white churches would do the same. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
Shiva (Moderator)
Nov. 18th, 2012 at 5:04 pm
Im sure you think your sure. Im also sure Ms Obama already knew christian churches were talking about politics.
A Walkaway
Nov. 18th, 2012 at 5:40 pm
I’ve not heard support for one political party over the other in our UU church, although I am sure that with one or two exceptions (third-party supporters), we all voted for President Obama.
In fact, our ministers are carefully taught where the line is and don’t cross it. We very strongly support separation of church and state, and teach that to our children (along with respect and kindness towards other religious traditions).
Thus I can say that there ARE Liberal churches who categorically do not violate the law. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn in some areas, a few conservative ones still have resisted the takeover and also don’t violate the law. (Before being steeplejacked, the Southern Baptists were some of the strongest supporters of the separation of church and state – which is funny, as they also were known to many minorities as some of the most bigoted people on the face of the planet.)
Since there are so few liberal churches… so very few, there really is no comparison between liberal and conservative churches. In fact, I’d say in places like this county (a real hellhole), you can safely assume that if a person goes to a church, there is a 99% or better chance that they’re conservative, and at least a 50-60% chance that they’re leaning towards theocracy. In some areas of the county, such as this one… it’s more like 70% and higher chance.
Since I no longer associate with conservatives, I don’t know if they’re still putting the “Value Voter’s Guides” in the pews as they used to – in the mainstream church we walked out of and which recently threw some of our friends out because they’re gay. I think it’s time the lawbreaking stop, and comments like yours are just more false equivalence.
Dave
Nov. 18th, 2012 at 11:36 am
Sign the petition to enforce the tax code, and strip violating Religious institutions of their tax exempt 501(c) status. wh.gov/9O0c
Richard
Nov. 18th, 2012 at 12:21 pm
I agree with Dave. If these 501 3c exempt organizations are violating IRS code, then they should be required to pay taxes and/or fined.
Tiffany Lathrop
Nov. 18th, 2012 at 12:30 pm
I really do not like subsidizing Christian activities because so much of what they do is a detriment to our society and they are an impediment to much needed progress. If all they did was take care of the poor then I would feel differently. So I am happy to see this lawsuit and I hope it succeeds.
Jonathan Burton
Nov. 18th, 2012 at 1:15 pm
Much of what churches do is very positive in fact. You probably wont hear about it though because the media does not like to air positive stories most of the time, nor do they even seek them out for the most part. That said churches and their pastors cross the line from time to time and they need to be reminded of the laws that they abide by in this country. It is very plain and simple. You break the law, you pay the price. I do not mind allowing programs that benefit soceity to be perpetuated and used as examples by other institutions. If churches want to use their coercive power to sway the public interest or to create positive changes in their communities, they can not apply for their tax exempt status and will not be held liable for putting their own ideas and initiatives out there. What’s more the institutions that are successful in bringing about positive changes in our communities via social mobility programs should be able to apply for federal dollars meant to acieve socisl upward mobility. Good ideas that give results should not be limited to secular enterprises.
Jonathan Burton
Nov. 18th, 2012 at 1:05 pm
We have a seperation of church and state for a reason. This country does not want to impede the rights of its citizens, nor does it want to engage in a theocracy that would put us in the categorry of countries like Iran. The IRS should ABSOLUTELY revoke these churches tax exempt status and that is final. I am a life long Christian and I believe what I believe, but whether I am right or not does not give me the right to manipulate others based on their religious convictions to back any particular political candidate. I can talk about what I believe are aspects of Christianity that I would like to see followed in the laws of our government, but if I am representing a religious institution in any way I have no right to coerce or manipulate others in my congregation to back or not back any political candidate for office. I am steadfastly against the politicization of religion. It is cheap and unethical in my opinion.
Goss
Nov. 18th, 2012 at 1:25 pm
When large churches (like LDS) start to own businesses that are not needed or related to church business, they need to pay taxes for said businesses.
Shiva (Moderator)
Nov. 18th, 2012 at 2:52 pm
The Catholic Church and the Mormon church are two of the biggest landowners in the United States. The Catholic Church is one of the biggest landowners in the world. And they get away Scott free.
If a church is going to act and pretend like it’s a business for profit then it needs to be taxed
singhx
Nov. 18th, 2012 at 3:24 pm
What I want to know is, what are the penalties for violating the law in terms of the 501c?
Is a slap on the wrist/a warning? Do they loose exempt status for one year/what period of time? Is there a large fine? Can the minister be thrown in jail for their act? Are taxes then leveled on different items belonging to the church if found guilty as charged?
What exactly penalties will these 1600 plus a-holes face when found guilty?
A Walkaway
Nov. 18th, 2012 at 5:49 pm
1600 plus aholes, added to probably several thousand who stuff their pews with “voter’s guides” and who do a lot of the “nudge nudge wink wink” stuff… or maybe not mention someone by name but make it clear who they’re talking about.
We used to get those voter’s guides every election. In the beginning the priest ordered people to go through and throw them all out (people from the local megachurch and from their ersatz “university” would go around and stuff pews). Then the clergy changed. The last decade or so we attended there… they “somehow mysteriously showed up” but we knew that someone in the church was putting them out “without the -nudge nudge wink wink- knowledge of the rector”.
SinghX
Nov. 19th, 2012 at 8:35 am
But, this reply does not answer my questions; what EXACTLY happens to those who are blatantly, openly in violation and are prosecuted, found guilty?
What are the penalties?
A Walkaway
Nov. 19th, 2012 at 12:06 pm
So far, with one exception (a liberal Episcopal church in California where the rector preached “Jesus debating Bush and Kerry”), I don’t think there are penalties.
Supposedly they can retroactively deny tax-exempt status and get the church for back taxes… going back to the first evidence of violating their non-profit status. I’ve been told the names of three or four churches that happened to (tax exemption denied for one year or so), but I’m not familiar with them – I am beginning to think that filing complaints is largely a waste of time.
Wake up
Nov. 18th, 2012 at 7:35 pm
How about we look at the morality of taxes instead of delving into the weeds of tax policy. You wouldn’t consider it moral if an individual “citizen” put on a costume with a funny hat and badge, kicked in someones door and threatened to shoot if they didn’t give him money so he may kill brown people in other lands. Why then is it moral if someone acquires a fancy title from another person with a fancy title. Morality is universal.
Shiva (Moderator)
Nov. 18th, 2012 at 8:00 pm
Hey we dont need no stinking roads or a socialist military anyways
Wake up
Nov. 18th, 2012 at 9:32 pm
Just because we are used to the government handling certain aspects of society doesn’t mean without government people wouldn’t have things like roads or mail service. Actually, it sounds silly to imply that people are such neanderthals that without a massive system of bureaucracy and violence they couldn’t figure out how to get from place to place.
Shiva (Moderator)
Nov. 18th, 2012 at 9:43 pm
You would pay for it. Heavily. Taxes in a single state would soon bring you back. Especially when the government of such state is corruptible and abusive towards minoritys. You dream of a consitutional state and think you can meditate all day. Not so. Rick Perry would have you living under religious laws in a heartbeat. You havent thoughout what you get from the Fed and how much you would have to make up for it in taxes. One for Perry, one for the Koch none for you
A Walkaway
Nov. 18th, 2012 at 11:19 pm
You think a privatized system would be better? Don’t buy any gold bricks or bridges.
Christopher
Nov. 18th, 2012 at 9:56 pm
Step 1: Endorse the existing laws.
Step 2: Treat religious organizations no differently from other non-profits.
Step 3: Respect freedom of the pulpit when it comes to issues, so long as they are not endorsing candidates by name.
This really isn’t hard, but keep in mind that our heritage with regards to religion inclines toward the greatest freedom possible for religious expression. Religious voices belong at the table because after all they sometimes are on the side of the angels, as for example REVEREND Martin Luther King.
Churchlady
Nov. 19th, 2012 at 3:11 am
Perfect! It is not that hard enforcing the laws. There DO have to be provable complaints – evidence before elections of partisan promotion – but that is not difficult. If people are engaged, visit these churches and listen, observe, report. They’re doing it to us.
Anyone wants more information, go to the Alliance for Justice web pages on rules for non-profits. That is www.afj.org Churches are actually LESS free to endorse anyone or anything since they cannot take the “h” election that gives them more leeway on advocacy. Only secular non-profits can do that and spend more money on it. So it’s pretty clear what is and is not legal. NEVER anything partisan.
SinghX
Nov. 19th, 2012 at 8:33 am
Again, I ask, what are the EXACT penalties for breaking the law?
Churchlady
Nov. 18th, 2012 at 10:04 pm
Oh for heaven’s sake learn the law. NO church can do partisan politicking of any kind at all. NONE. All churches – just like the ACLU – can do NON-partisan work so long as they don’t spend money or no more than 5% of their income. Again – same laws governing the ACLU. Churches are all presumed to have a 501-c-3 and are therefore treated as if they do even if they never filed paperwork – but they are held to the same standards as any that do have formal incorporation.
There is nothing wrong with non-partisan education and advocacy even from the pulpit. Where do you think progressives do it? Walkaway – you say it is something you could live with if the UU church had to pay taxes, but trust me on this. You could not. And why SHOULD they if they obey the law governing ALL non-profits?
There are megachurches that are almost uniformly conservative. They and ONLY they are challenging the ban on partisan advocacy. But all the small churches that feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, run free medical clinis – they’d fold. And there’d be no advocacy for justice issues that they uphold. Your UU church would be the first to go.
By advocating thoughtless actions that are NOT needed – you NEED to enforce the EXISTING laws – you kill your allies,and only the megachurches will survive. So think that through. You really want to be left without UU churches to speak up, without UCC churches that are totally inclusive of GLBT people and the first to perform same sex weddings? You REALLY want Methodists and Presbyeterians and all the activists on PROGRESSIVE values never to breathe a word in their social justice groups – leaving the RW to do it all?
Seriously – learn the laws, call out those who violate them, and get a major grip on reality. You will hurt only your allies and won’t even put a dent in the religious right. Dobson and Hagee and Pat Robertson all thank you – they could NOT have better friends than you.
A Walkaway
Nov. 18th, 2012 at 11:16 pm
Churchlady, Partisan politicking has been happening in the churches around here probably many decades longer than I have. It’s a fact of life. Dominionist churches do it if they think they aren’t being watched and use dogwhistle if they think they are. They were doing it back when I was a member of the Assemblies of God cult. I remember it. You didn’t support a Democrat… they all were “secular humanists” and “of the world”. You were supposed to support “Good Christians” and oh, yes… this Republican and that Republican was a “Good Christian”.
In that Episcopal church, it was a lot more subtle, but still there (in later years) – along with the “Value Voter’s Guides”.
I know what the impact would be. It wouldn’t be fun. I still stand by what I said. I don’t know of any other way to break their power, and it MUST be broken. I also strenuously disagree about it being just the megachurches… I can’t prove it, but I know that the little dominionist churches within a couple of mile radius circle of our home all were politicking and heavily. Some of them have probably no more than 50 members. (Some have a couple of hundred members.) I also remember from my AoG days learning that the small churches take their marching orders from the organization, and even sometimes get directives on what to preach. The problem is, they’ve built in deniability into their system. We’d have to literally catch them giving the marching orders. But they do act in concert. I think that’s the case everywhere now.
If the government would enforce the law, we might not be having this discussion. Unfortunately, it doesn’t – except against the wrong people. I don’t know any other way to break their power.
(I also happen to be aware of the rules regarding non-profits, and wish they were equally enforced, especially with churches!)
Churchlady
Nov. 19th, 2012 at 3:07 am
Walkaway – you know me, I know you. We’ve been on the phone together.
YES there is a way to break the religious right. Enforce the existing laws. They have to begin with an active and provable complaint. Unlike under Bush where total strangers who were not present offered complaints against LIBERAL churches, this administration is requiring proof. That’s necessary. If you have proof – schedules of presentations such as those by Craig Huey whose “ballot guide” to “Christian candidates” are read and expounded on a printed online schedule – then call or write the IRS and make a formal complaint.
Do this time after time after time. Those churches that obey the law,and that is all of them in the progressive world, must not be treated differently from the way you’d treat the ACLU – if you start taxing churches, you will HAVE to tax ALL non-profits since that is how they are incorporated.
Abiding by the law is precisely what the rightwing is challenging – they want NO laws. And they are rich enough to take anything you can throw at them.
Taxing ALL churches simply guarantees the big and rich ones – conservative – will survive and small ones will die. And that is virtually all of your allies. It is NOT correct to say that taxation is the only way – it is a recipe for disaster for progressives and opening the floodgate of the power of the Right.
Putting your allies out of operation is not a sacrifice you have the privilege to make when it will create exactly the opposite outcome from what you want.
A Walkaway
Nov. 19th, 2012 at 12:14 pm
(Sigh) Then we get into what the definition of “proof” is.
It should be multiple witnesses, or documentation, or recordings, or physical evidence of some kind. I think that the law in this state forbids recording sermons unless specifically permitted (and the dominionists will NOT allow one to openly record a partisan politicking sermon) – just as they don’t allow someone to record a conversation or even a police officer when they’re violating the law… it has to be a videorecording or nothing at all and in most cases, all parties must agree to it. You’d have to have the police get a warrant and do undercover work… and you know how far that would go.
I’ve been down the “proof” road before. They’ll always find a way to deny your evidence – even if it’s in front of their eyes (like the spraypainted racist hate graffiti and the burned shop).
I guess there is NO answer.