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Carrie Underwood’s Support of Marriage Equality Exposes Fundie Confusion Over Love and Hate
more from Hrafnkell Haraldsson
Country star Carrie Underwood, who was raised Baptist and who achieved fame with the song “Jesus Take the Wheel” told the Independent this past weekend that she endorses marriage equality – “vehemently in favor” is how the Independent puts it.
This is what Underwood had to say:
"As a married person myself, I don't know what it's like to be told I can't marry somebody I love, and want to marry," she said. "I can't imagine how that must feel. I definitely think we should all have the right to love, and love publicly, the people that we want to love."
This is not to say that Underwood is an atheist. She is a Christian. Just of a more progressive bent than might earlier have been recognized from her music.
She said, however, that her liberal attitude towards same-sex marriage comes because of her Christian values, rather than in spite of them. Though raised a Baptist, a church that tends to oppose homosexuality, Underwood and her husband Mike Fisher, a professional ice-hockey player, now worship in a non-denominational congregation.
"Our church is gay friendly," she said. "Above all, God wanted us to love others. It's not about setting rules, or [saying] 'everyone has to be like me'. No. We're all different. That's what makes us special. We have to love each other and get on with each other. It's not up to me to judge anybody."
Boy, no judging anybody? Are you serious? You can almost feel all the head-scratching going on in the Bible Belt. As a commenter at The Blaze put it:
“Indeed sad, that now, Miss Underwood (yeah, we know she’s married) in attempting to “package” herself, and not peave off the gay-record-buying-public is leaving her principles behind in favor of the quick-buck. Many have already commented on the Biblical references to homosexuality.
Yes, Carrie it IS your place to judge others.”
Unsurprisingly, as the Independent points out, the singer “draws much of her fanbase from evangelical Christians” and you know this is going to hit them hard. The question is, how hard will they hit back?
CBN cautiously opines that “Underwood has drawn mixed reaction from the Christian community since making her comments” while the Blaze simply admits that only time will tell.
GoProud, the conservative gay organization, is happy, reports the LA Times:
"Good for her," said Jimmy LaSalvia, co-founder and executive director of GOProud, an organization that bills itself as "the voice of gay conservatives and their straight allies."
"You know, Carrie Underwood isn't any different from anyone else in America," LaSalvia said Monday in an e-mail to The Times. "The more Americans think about how issues affect their gay friends and family the more they come to realize that supporting same-sex civil marriage is the right thing to do. More and more people are coming to that conclusion — and that includes conservative Christians."
But how are conservative Christians taking Underwood’s revelation that, as she told the Independent, “Above all, God wanted us to love others”?
Well, not so well, as you can imagine. Bible quotes abound, though none about condemnation of anything other than homosexuality – they all skip right over how it’s an abomination to shave, for example. People like to shave, so God can’t possibly be serious about that one. But people who don’t have same-sex attractions find it easy enough to focus on Leviticus 20:13.
Of course it’s a favorite pastime of conservative Christians to misread the Bible if they bother to read it at all (rare enough in itself). You can find this one at A Taste of Country:
Wow! God destroyed 2 cities in the Bible because they were full of homosexuality. So, Carrie and her husband supports gay marriages while calling themselves Christian? A church who is gay friendly? Are you serious? Talk about an abomination.
Some of the other comments at A Taste of Country are more than merely hostile. Some show Christians trying to come to grips with loving and yet rejecting people with comments like
“I am afraid that Carrie may live to regret giving her support to gay marriage…Yes, we as Christians are supposed to love others, but we are not to support something that is blatantly against the Bible.”
Or,
“My church is also Non-Denominational, however right is right. You cannot argue with the Bible. I love how these big stars twist the word of God to suit them. Sorry, but I've lost most of my respect for Carrie on this one.”
Or the classic,
“Remember Sodom and Gomorrah”
None of this is surprising. A commenter at CBN garbles a “I'm not hating. I'm just saying” while another.actually gives the Inquisition-ready response:
“what is unloving about correcting? God says He chastises the son He loves. That is a sign of sonship…chastisement. When we answer with the Word of God that is love since it shows Truth and we can adjust our thinking and behavior to line up with God's Word. That is love. It shows you care.”
You’re going to have a hard time convincing the person you are chastising that you are loving them. Keep your signs of “sonship” to yourself, thank you very much. Any love that kills millions is one we could all do without. That whole "love the sinner, hate the sin" routine (which, by the way, isn't even remotely Biblical) may fool y'all but it's not going to fool the rest of us.
Carrie Underwood did a very brave thing this past weekend. To date she has not pulled a Republican and recanted like Jeb Bush, who after saying Reagan wouldn’t be considered a Republican by today’s GOP, found himself attacked by Grover Norquist, who said Bush’s comments were “foolish” and “bizarre.” Bush cracked almost at once and demonstrated that he really feels it’s the Democrats who are to blame.
It is unlikely Underwood will backtrack because Carrie Underwood seems to have the courage of her convictions. Contrary to the commenter's accusation above, she is not trying to make a quick buck, but rather risking her hard-earned dollars by coming out in favor of marriage equality. And she seems to be a genuinely loving person, who really does care about people other than herself. And she isn’t threatened by the existence of people many of her fans have been taught to be afraid of.
And fear is a very real motivator to these people and that is why they find it so easy to embrace hate, as one commenter demonstrates:
“ I would much rather be the idiot that dies and finds out that everything I believed in was right than to be the idiot that dies and finds out that everything I didn't believe in was right.”
I think I would rather be the "idiot" who does the right thing, and for Carrie Underwood, the brave thing.
Image from Wikimedia Commons
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Shiva (Moderator)
Jun. 13th, 2012 at 8:30 am
I frequently fall into the trap of thinking that fundamentalists are a few leaders who are probably going to hell. This article slapped me upside the head to remind me that fundamentalists are In our churches all over the United States. Religion to many is not love, it is power over others even at the person to person level. religion means telling people what they can and cannot do and that trumps the message that religion is supposed to relate,( supposedly).
when you seen these little creeps on the blaze and other forums, you understand that hatred is their religious credo. They could care less about religion because they're too busy covering up their own sexual insecurities. Let's thank Hraf's gods, the 5000 Gods who came before the current gods, the plants, the trees and the Water Tower that I worship that these people are a freaking minority.
I am not interested in the types of religion that you see exhibited by people on the blaze and the other hate filled forums like it. A true religious person would either talk to these people and try to change their opinion and a religious manner or let them go to live their own lives the way they wish. But unfortunately there is very little of that in this world. religion seldom managers to live up to its billing.
but then again let's remember the lesson of Ozzy Osbourne. He had a reputation as being a devil worshiper which he was not, but that certainly didn't hurt his music sales.
Guns, baby Jebus, hate and fear
SinghX
Jun. 13th, 2012 at 8:59 am
"You cannot argue with the Bible…"
Really?! No shit! Uhh…I-did-not-know-that…
Isn't there a whole sect of Jews who do nothing but debate, "argue", disagree over the bible and have been doing this for centuries as a way to keep relevance to their scripture? But, I guess that doesn't apply to the tribe of the New Test; they aren't allowed to "argue" with anything allegedly said in their bible book…
Where does it say "you can't argue" with anything in the bible book because…because why? Because a commenter on an on-line blog said so??? Where does the good book tell me so?
"…When we answer with the Word of God that is love since it shows Truth…"
And now "Truth" is no longer a synonym? It is trade-marked for the christian use only, therefore, you can't argue with a christian?? Plus, christian love is truth, therefore every one who doesn't finger themself with the truth is not a loving person…I see, christians of the "Truth" are not into "hater'ation" but masterbation! Huhh, I-did-not-know-that… well, I guess you CAN'T argue with that!
What planet are we on again?
SinghX
Jun. 13th, 2012 at 9:12 am
I forgot…for Con Heart (anybody seen'm these days?)
"It is unlikely Underwood will backtrack because Carrie Underwood seems to have the courage of her convictions…."
That strident, back-slidin', homo-made sin lover! Ah hopes her husband takes care of her and makes her repent for speaking her mind…maybe several the mega-church leaders will gang up on her by her pool in Hollywood and convince her that they should stay with her (maybe the guest house) for a while in order to share their "Truth and Love" while sunning themselves by the pool (fully clothed, of course!) reading the bible and sucking down cold beers all day. That's what they did with Todd Bently and look at their amazing "miracles" that brought him back to the fold!
Diane
Jun. 13th, 2012 at 9:55 am
I still am mightly confused by these so called 'christians'.
The New testament is the word of Christ. That is the Testament they are supposed to follow, that is why they are called 'christians'.So why do they constantly quote the OT?
Good for carrie Underwood
Judge not lest ye be judged. I am answerable to myself and God and follow the rule of law in the stae and country where I live.
Shiva (Moderator)
Jun. 13th, 2012 at 11:24 am
that’s the way the Baptist are down here in Tennessee. They say they live by the New Testament but require women to dress according to the Old Testament when they come to church. No slacks, very little makeup and very little jewelry. of course the man don’t have to live to the Old Testament
Plant Claire
Jun. 13th, 2012 at 4:39 pm
Whoa!? Shiva, I'm a Baptist from Tennessee and I would like to clear something up, if I may. Nobody tells me or any other women how to dress. We have a very casual church in which we wear pants, shorts and t-shirts. And trust me, there is no code regarding make-up and jewelry. When I was little, I'd have a headache by the time church was over from the Avon fumes. I'd also be covered in various shades of berry tinted lip prints.
Baptists are actually the least conservative of the southern borne congregations.
I think you are confusing Baptist with Pentacostal. I don't know any Baptists that do that. I, myself, am very liberal and I've never heard a single negative word from anyone in my church. Some may think it, but they've never said it to me.
Anyway, I say kudos to Carrie Underwood. We are not supposed to live by Leviticus in the OT. Also, others may try to argue that the NT also condemns homosexuality but it does not. The original text used the word, "arsenokoitai". While the extact meaning is unclear, it is not the word used for "homosexual" during the time period and when taken in context probably means adult males with young boy sex slaves or boy prostitutes.
Just had to speak my peace and clear up another misconception.
Shiva (Moderator)
Jun. 13th, 2012 at 4:44 pm
Oh yes there is. Go on up to Onida and a few smaller towns. I worked with two baptist deacons that tell me this and several lady coworkers have conformed that such codes exist in certain churches. Baptist
Shiva (Moderator)
Jun. 13th, 2012 at 4:48 pm
In fact in Michigan where I originally come from Baptists are not allowed to dance, play cards and many other things like listen to Rock n Roll. Of course they do
I am in Oak Ridge
Plant Claire
Jun. 13th, 2012 at 4:56 pm
Well, I guess you should know since you were born and raised in the Baptist church in Tennessee and I wasn't. Sigh.
Shiva (Moderator)
Jun. 13th, 2012 at 5:02 pm
No need to be sarcastic. I go by what my co-workers tell me.
Plant Claire
Jun. 13th, 2012 at 5:04 pm
Wow! That would really put a damper on our annual summer Florenceapalooza, (for Florence Baptist), and the Bunco team. Hahaha! One morning our keyboardist threw down on, "Jesus Is Just Alright With Me" by the Doobie Brothers. And she's the pastor's mom. It was awesome!
A Walkaway
Jun. 13th, 2012 at 5:06 pm
I live in Florida and the description of the rules is pretty apt. Yeah, Pentecostals can be (and often are) much worse, but no dancing, no alcoholic beverages, etc. is very much a part of Baptist rules down here, along with men must wear suit-and-tie and women dresses (makeup is generally frowned on). There are variations between churches, I admit, but for the most part they are very rule-bound down in this area.
Oh, and a lot of the Baptist ministers go (or used to go) to the Assemblies of God "University" in this region… where they learned all the nasty tricks of the trade, including how to steeplejack and how to get more tithes, love offerings, and gifts out of people.
If your church is still relatively liberal, be glad. I would also suggest you look to see what the racial makeup is like. In Florida, the Southern Baptists have the reputation of being tied to the Klan… burning crosses or people on Saturday night, preaching from the pulpit or praising God in the pews on Sunday.
Shiva (Moderator)
Jun. 13th, 2012 at 5:17 pm
we have hundreds of small Baptist churches around here that are quite domineering. In fact several of the women I worked with still think that Obama is a Muslim. After all this time they are still convinced he is. And they readily admitted they heard at church. I’m sure there is a pretty big difference between the large Baptist churches in Knoxville and the smaller IBaptist churches who have generally no more than 35 to 50 people going to them. My neighbor is Baptist and his church teaches him His wife should always be at home and not at work. He is conflicted because both of them have to work in order to get by. a nice guilt trip from a small southern Baptist Church
Plant Claire
Jun. 13th, 2012 at 5:25 pm
That, my friend, is horrific. Doesn't work that way here and never has in my experience. I could understand if you are refering to Primative Baptist which is a different congregation entirely.
I can't imaging clothing cops. And no, we don't drink in church. Who does unless it is for Communion?
There are a couple of place in the Bible that actually recommend drinking within reason. Not getting knee-walking drunk is just basic common sense.
Also the whole dancing thing is just ridiculous. Anyone that still subscribes to that is just silly. Nowhere in the Bible does it say it is wrong to dance. Jesus danced at weddings AND drank wine.
Shiva (Moderator)
Jun. 13th, 2012 at 5:34 pm
Thats because in Bibical days the water was shiite. they drank spring or fresh wine far more than water. It was cleaner. Usually around 3 days old and not very alcoholic
Plant Claire
Jun. 13th, 2012 at 5:33 pm
Shiva, I'm not in Knoxville. I'm in Murfreesboro and our church is in Florence. So small, they don't even have a post office.
Any pastor that is telling their congregation that Obama is a Muslim needs to be reported to the appropriate board. Not that there is anything wrong with being a Muslim, but it is plain and simple fear mongering if a pastor is engaging in that kind of activity.
I would venture a guess that is more than likely the work of the Tea Party and the old cronies that hang on every word Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck have to say that are keeping things stirred up. Sad, hateful people.
A Walkaway
Jun. 14th, 2012 at 12:25 am
Uh… Shiva… they had fully fermented wines and beers, by the time of the Egyptian old kingdom and Mesopotamia, and the indications were far earlier. A couple of my friends specialized a little in the archaeology of fermented beverages and I've met the main person who does that and have his book. There were even brands of beer in ancient Egypt (and I believe other places… that's not my specialty and the knowledge I have comes from the book I mentioned as well as chatting with the people I know) and I've tried some of the stuff made by the ancient recipes. (Some is NASTY, but some is pretty darn good!)
Some of the beer also tastes a lot like a slightly carbonated sour wine. I don't know how much hops was used in ancient times. I didn't care for that.
Oh, and if you ever run across "Midas Touch" by Dogfish Brewery, try it. The archaeologist whose book I have excavated the tomb and did the investigation that led to that brew. It's pretty good stuff IMO, and was created as a funerary brew for either King Midas himself (real person), or his father.
Shiva (Moderator)
Jun. 14th, 2012 at 7:28 am
Yes they did have fully fermented wines. But for every day drinking the wines they drank were very fresh and not aged at all. Simply because the wine was more pure than the water
A Walkaway
Jun. 14th, 2012 at 12:41 am
Primitive Baptists… I know things about their church that they probably don't know… and probably could surprise them with knowledge of some of the practices they don't advertise much.
Let's just say that there is a very strong connection between that church and my tribe… long ago. I don't agree with the direction the church has gone, but…
A Walkaway
Jun. 14th, 2012 at 1:30 am
Oh, Plant Claire… the rules against drinking anything with alcohol and dancing were for their people when they were outside the church… some of them (the more strident/"Bible-Believing" ones) have been known to raise a stink if anyone near them drinks anything with alcohol (especially if that person is a Christian regardless of denomination) or dances.
Funny thing, because when I was a dominionist (in the Assemblies of God), I learned that there were two tracks in their school (where so many Southern Baptist ministers went)… being a minister in the US, vs being a missionary or minister to areas of Europe and some other areas. The ones who were for here were taught to preach against alcohol as a horrible sin, and the ones who went overseas were taught to NOT preach against alcohol and to even drink a little now and then, because preaching against it would get them laughed out of the area and they may be put in a position where refusing a glass of wine might be an insult to a host.
If your church is Southern Baptist (and not American Baptist or one of a few other Baptist groups), I find it very unusual that your congregation has such a liberal viewpoint. That isn't the case in other areas… not just here but, for instance, in Mississippi where I did some work recently.
Shiva (Moderator)
Jun. 14th, 2012 at 7:44 am
There are Baptist churches here in Knoxville that have “Custom” and “traditional” sunday services. They are not at all like the churches out here in the outlying areas. The ones in the much more “country” areas are considerably more strict
Leah L Burton
Jun. 13th, 2012 at 12:30 pm
Diane…that is a point I repeat often and it goes right over the heads of these political Dominionist Christians. They have co-opted Christianity and conservatism in America – falling forward headlong into a cesspool of hate and intolerance while attempting to wrap it all in the authority of the Old Testament. This is why I use this quote in my email signature line:
"It is easier to write on water than to argue with a religious zealot"
oudiva
Jun. 22nd, 2012 at 5:10 pm
Amen. And don’t forget the rest of that quote: “…for the judgment you give will be the judgment you receive.” I suspect that some of our judgmental fundie brothers and sisters are going to get a surprise on Judgment Day.
Shark
Jun. 13th, 2012 at 11:37 am
As a Cowboys fan now I completely understand why her and Romo failed. She's too smart far for him. He likes them dumb.
Maple
Jun. 13th, 2012 at 12:16 pm
Carrie married a Canadian. That explains it!
Joy
Jun. 13th, 2012 at 1:38 pm
You know, her being married to a Canadian was the first thing I thought too. With a little bit of pride I might add. It's trite to sum it up to that, but it was a funny thought.
I think it's confusing to many of us northerners the big hub bub over same sex marriage. We've had it for years (and there are opponents of it here too) but the world hasn't come to an end. The country is still relatively intact, marriages fine, Christians live life accordingly (and we have a few denomenations that are in support of same sex marriage), and life has gone on as we know it.
If I get up to heaven and God tells me that I was wrong, I shouldn't have loved those as I have loved myself, then I'll have to ask myself, if that is an afterlife I want to be a part of?
Leah L Burton
Jun. 13th, 2012 at 12:32 pm
Thank you for writing about this Hraf…I applaud her for actually getting WWJD regarding homosexuals. We just need to let her know that she is in good company and your post contributed to that.
Hrafnkell Haraldsson
Jun. 13th, 2012 at 7:58 pm
Thanks, Leah. I've always bought Carrie's CDs despite the Christian references in her songs (Jesus Take the Wheel is about as antithetical to what I believe as you can get) and I will certainly continue to do so. I think she will gain as many fans as she loses but it is a risk and I applaud her.
Rick
Jun. 13th, 2012 at 1:17 pm
"Yes, Carrie it IS your place to judge others.”
So how do you explain Mattew 7:1-5?:
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye."
It sounds like Jesus takes a rather distasteful view towards those who judge others, while ignoring their own shortcomings.
"You cannot argue with the Bible."
Sure you can. The Germans did it for thirty years during the 17th Century.
oudiva
Jun. 22nd, 2012 at 5:12 pm
AMEN, my brother!
frost
Jun. 13th, 2012 at 1:24 pm
never bought any of her music…. just went out and bought 5 cd's…
love open minds and hearts and people who don;t use the bibe as a weapon…
the others… will find themselves in hell .. with all the rest of the haters
Bren
Jun. 13th, 2012 at 1:28 pm
"The Blaze"… AHHH, "The Humor." It is NOT our place to judge others. It's our place to love others. Raised Freewill Baptist, married to a Catholic, short adult period of Pentecostal (the most judgmental IMHO), now Independent Christian. I READ the bible and try my hardest to live it.
Alliandrina
Jun. 13th, 2012 at 1:36 pm
Sigh. All this article shows is how easy it is to find negative statements about someone elses beliefs. While I am a conservative and a Carrie fan- my beliefs aren’t bases on hers. In fact, I supported the notion of same sex marriage before it started becoming a big time issue
Ken
Jun. 13th, 2012 at 2:16 pm
The last quote…
Blows my mind…it is so devoid of knowlege Christian spirituality.
A Walkaway
Jun. 14th, 2012 at 12:30 am
Ah, the good ole "What if you're wrong!" trap. Remember it well. It's one of the things they try to get programmed into you as soon as possible, because that nagging fear tends to keep you from straying and under their control.
Obama 2012
Jun. 13th, 2012 at 2:58 pm
It seems America is really coming around on this issue – I think the President's timing couldn't have been better. It would be a beautiful thing if his support of gay marriage is what puts him over the top and wins him a second term (if it's a close election… it's possible) … really anything that keeps the Republicans out of power is a beautiful thing for America.
Mickee
Jun. 13th, 2012 at 3:13 pm
I say thank God for people like Carrie Underwood. She gets it. We are all God's children, put on earth to do good and to love one another. The christain fundamentalists do more harm to thier flock than good. It's power they want and power they get by condeming any who don't believe as they do. Scarry!
Sbell
Jun. 13th, 2012 at 3:19 pm
I agree with the basic support of the article but what does “a love that kills millions” mean?
Hrafnkell Haraldsson
Jun. 13th, 2012 at 7:54 pm
I was thinking of several things as I wrote this, all of which I have mentioned here at one time or another:
1) "Millions of dead people. All because they gave the wrong answer to the god Question" – George Carlin
2) “Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned: yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites.” – Thomas Jefferson
3) Christianity has resuled in the deaths of “at least a million people per century” over the past two millennia – Gerd Ludemann, The Acts of the Apostles (2005)
I should have made my reference more clear.
John E Bertrand
Jun. 13th, 2012 at 3:22 pm
As I've said elsewhere, Tony Perkins isn't going to be happy at all, at all. But I suppose as long as it doesn't cut into his bottom line $$s he'll just condemn her to hell and let it go at that, eh?
Mac
Jun. 13th, 2012 at 4:00 pm
"You cannot argue with the Bible…"
Watch me.
Joshua
Jun. 13th, 2012 at 4:31 pm
I love how many Christians will argue until they are blue in the face about a few ambigious verses about homosexuality in the New Testament, but then you mention to them Jesus' repeated and explicit commands about non-violence and all of a sudden they stop interpreting the Bible so literally.
A Walkaway
Jun. 13th, 2012 at 5:15 pm
Look at all of the passages against the rich and powerful, and the language about economic justice. That was, I think, his main message… one of hope for the 99% or meant to give hope to the 99%.
He advocated HELPING people (especially the poor) and non-violent resistance against the Roman occupation and what it stood for.
(Suggested reading: "The Radical Rabbi of Nazareth" by Willoughby. )
majii
Jun. 13th, 2012 at 5:37 pm
IMHO, A Walkaway, their acting in ways opposite to the teachings of Jesus, and their desire to re-write the Constitution to reflect their personal religious views is what has caused me to question whether they're Christians or not and whether they're political conservatives or not. Their behavior and thoughts on the Constitution and the Bible don't reflect Christianity or conservatism. The politicians at the top of the party's hierarchy have persuaded them to abandon both, and they don't even realize it. I doubt if many of them could explain what conservatism is, or justify using the OT to push hate while calling themselves Christians. Christians didn't exist during OT times, but you can't tell these folks that.
A Walkaway
Jun. 13th, 2012 at 9:08 pm
Christians didn't exist during OT times
ROFLMAO!!!!!!
That can be (and probably IS) written in stone!
Boscoe
Jun. 15th, 2012 at 12:24 am
You also can’t tell them that Jesus is the king of Progressives either. ;) I mean, how much more Liberal could he possibly have been? Why don’t “Christians” notice the way they constantly justify things Jesus DID NOT SAY by starting their sentences with: “well, what he MEANT was…”
lawlitasbearings.tumblr.c...
oudiva
Jun. 22nd, 2012 at 5:16 pm
Jesus isn’t the only one talking about caring for the poor and sick. The Old Testament that the fundies so love to quote is full of the same thing. The prophets are forever ragging on the rich and the kings and the high priests about “grinding the faces of the poor” and “selling the destitute for a pair of shoes.” Sound familiar? Sounds like the Republican Party to me.
mikeyhatesit
Jun. 15th, 2012 at 9:25 pm
If there is any doubt as to what the “average” Dominionist thinks, check out FSTDT.com for a terrifying sample of comments pulled from hundreds of right wing forums. It’s quite entertaining, but sobering at the same time. Kinda like watching a clown car drive full speed into a gas station…
mikeyhatesit
Jun. 15th, 2012 at 9:51 pm
For example, this comment from “Free Republic”, along with dissection by the regular commentators at FSTDT.
Shiva (Moderator)
Jun. 15th, 2012 at 9:57 pm
what is FSTDT?