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What Last Night’s Debate Tells us About How Team Romney Sees Women
By: Hrafnkell HaraldssonOct. 12th, 2012more from Hrafnkell Haraldsson
What I take away from the Biden-Ryan debate last night is this: Team Obama is willing to stand up for women and to make their position unequivocally clear. Moreover, tested time and again, they stand by it.
What you get from Team Romney is all over the place. Romney is busy clarifying clarifications, Tuesday saying he knows of no abortion legislation that is part of his agenda, and on Wednesday announcing that he will defund Planned Parenthood.
Ryan, for his part, when asked by moderator Martha Raddatz, “I want to go back to the abortion question here. If the Romney-Ryan ticket is elected, should those who believe that abortion should remain legal be worried?”
answered,
“We don’t think that unelected judges should make this decision; that people, through their elected representatives and reaching a consensus in society through the democratic process, should make this determination.”
Unelected judge? We are not talking about unelected judges making decisions. We are talking about women making decisions. About their own bodies. About their own health.
Compare and contrast that again with what Biden said:
“I do not believe that — that we have a right to tell other people that women, they — they can’t control their body. It’s a decision between them and their doctor, in my view.”
Team Obama wants to leave women in control of their bodies. Team Romney wants to leave elected representatives in control of women’s bodies.
Romney can dance all over the spectrum trying to act like a sane, moderate candidate, but he has sold his soul to America’s religious extremists on the issue of abortion and contraception.
What Americans need to remember is that in Team Romney we have a conservative Mormon and a conservative Catholic allied to conservative Protestants, none of whom are much interested in what the U.S. Constitution says about anything.
Once upon a time, America was a safe haven for those who did not want to be told how to live their lives according to the dictates of one religion or another. That time is rapidly passing. The forces of theocracy have massed for one last push.
Through some twists and turns in the electoral process (and a whole whompin’ lot of money) they have ended up with a Mormon of all things as their flag waver and they have more or less enthusiastically lined up behind him.
Any woman expecting a fair shake out of this unholy alliance isn’t paying attention.
At the debate, Ryan did an excellent job of avoiding direct answers to questions, but on the abortion issue, he slipped up:
I don’t see how a person can separate their public life from their private life or from their faith. Our faith informs us in everything we do. My faith informs me about how to take care of the vulnerable, about how to make sure that people have a chance in life.
He claims, “Now, I understand this is a difficult issue. And I respect people who don’t agree with me on this.”
Now Ryan’s claim about giving people a chance in life is pure bullshit. Even the Jesuits recognize this and they’re Catholic Dammit.
And as for respect, no, he really doesn’t. He expects people who disagree with him to live their lives according to his religious doctrines, no matter what religion they may belong to; no matter what the dictates of their own system of belief tells them is right where abortion and contraception are concerned.
Biden also says his religion is important to him. But he recognizes that it is his religion; not yours and not mine:
With regard to — with regard to abortion, I accept my church’s position on abortion as a — what we call de fide (doctrine ?). Life begins at conception. That’s the church’s judgment. I accept it in my personal life.
But I refuse to impose it on equally devout Christians and Muslims and Jews and — I just refuse to impose that on others, unlike my friend here, the congressman.
And this is the point Ryan fails to understand. This is the point the Religious Right as a whole fails to understand. We don’t all hold the same religious beliefs. And it is the GOP that has made this fight about religion, calming it has nothing to do with women’s health (remember why Sandra Fluke was excluded from the discussion about her own vagina).
If this is, as the Republicans insist, a religious issue, and Ryan is a Catholic, why don’t we just invite the Pope in to make a ruling on these matters? Well, because the Constitution forbids it. We don’t have state sponsored religion here in this country. It’s forbidden.
And that goes for any religion. The Right wants to defeat Sharia Law but they want to put in its place an almost identical law code, Mosaic Law. Neither law code is women-friendly. Let’s face it. Bronze Age Palestine was not a time for feminism and neither was Arabia in the early Middle Ages.
But Romney and Ryan are insisting that our laws should be based on their religious beliefs, despite the First Amendment’s prohibition on state-sponsored religion.
Ryan sings the persecution song the hypocritical aberrochristians love so well . He claimed last night, “They’re infringing upon our first freedom, the freedom of religion.”
But nobody is telling Ryan that he can’t let his religion inform his choices. All we are telling him is that his religion cannot inform our choices.
The people threatening our freedom of religion are named Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan.
Joe Biden gets it. Barack Obama gets it, as we saw from the evolution of his position on marriage equality. But Romney and Ryan don’t get it. Conservatives can’t unbend their minds. They can’t haul them out of the past and from thoughts of how things “have always been.”
It’s time to shed the Bronze age status quo. As President Obama said, we’ve got to go forward. We can’t go back.
But that is exactly what Team Romney wants and it is exactly what Paul Ryan supported at the debate last night. Not only will all forward momentum cease immediately, but we will all take three steps back for every step we took forward, until women are silent and obedient and pregnant when their men want them to be. As Obama campaign spokeswoman Lis Smith said: “Women simply can’t trust (Romney).”
Know your role, ladies. The Sky Father’s holy men are pissed, and you know by now that no good ever comes of that.
Photo from Time Swampland
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Anon
Oct. 12th, 2012 at 7:25 am
They keep saying they are against regulation, yet they never stop trying to regulate our everyday lives in practically every way.
Devon Rose
Oct. 12th, 2012 at 9:54 am
Republicans want less regulation like criminals want less cops. (-.^)
Reynardine
Oct. 12th, 2012 at 7:45 am
Republicans think government should be shrunk to the size of a speculum.
JT
Oct. 12th, 2012 at 7:48 am
It isn’t difficult to see why women refuse to accept the Romney/Ryan/religious right ideologies, but I don’t understand how any man who has ever had a woman in his life, whether mother, wife, sister, daughter, could in good conscience approve the Romney/Ryan agenda.
It’s time for women to confront the men in their lives and demand that they support women’s rights.
I’m not impressed with the males who stand by and even allow their “representatives” to push the attack on women. Males are shirking their responsibilities to defend the women in their lives. It’s embarrassing because I’m a male…
Devon Rose
Oct. 12th, 2012 at 9:56 am
Chivalry isn’t dead, yay JT! Well put.
Sandra
Oct. 12th, 2012 at 10:55 am
Thank you JT. As a woman and a Catholic, I have been wondering about the absence of men who claim to love their mothers, wives, daughters and other female relatives. Why would they allow any political party to infringe on their rights because yes, it does affect men also as well as the liberty and freedoms of their female members. VP Biden is correct, religious beliefs are a personal thing between the individual and their God and no one has the right impose their beliefs on others.
Separation of Church and State is a model every country should emulate. Less bloody wars and killings in the name of God and religion would be a good thing.
Sally
Oct. 12th, 2012 at 7:56 am
Well said! But you know, the line of the debate for me was when Raddatz asked Ryan what qualities he has that make him suited for VP, and he looks straight into the camera and says, “Honesty.” Without one flicker of
sarcasm. I do hope he’s attending confession this morning. He may be there awhile.
Anne
Oct. 12th, 2012 at 8:07 am
I see more lies in an effort to mask their reactionary agenda to make it palatable to as many voters as possible. The problem is that a steaming pile is a steaming pile by any definition, and there’s nothing that makes their toxic agenda stink any less for any rational, thinking human being.
Beaglemom
Oct. 12th, 2012 at 8:20 am
One of the great dangers of modern GOP-ism is that it is geared only to move backwards only. Republicans want to go back to a simpler time but we all know that that is impossible. Life moves on. Going back means regression – to no equal rights for women, to no racial equality, to no environmental protections, to no workplace protections, ultimately to slavery – both economic and racial. People are not meant to regress. We are meant to progress.
Ingrid Buxton
Oct. 12th, 2012 at 8:58 am
The lessons of the 2010 elections in Wisconsin, Michigan and Ohio are:
You cant trust the Republicans. They have a secret agenda they wont discuss in public.
Marco
Oct. 12th, 2012 at 9:04 am
“My faith informs me about how to take care of the vulnerable, about how to make sure that people have a chance in life.”
Yeah, and that’s why Catholic bishops and cardinals have condemned you proposed budget that devastates help for the poor and the sick. Oh, that’s right, you’re from the Caligula branch of the Catholic Church. Me bad!
Theta
Oct. 12th, 2012 at 9:27 am
Abortion isn’t just women making decisions about their own bodies. They are making decisions about the bodies of their growing children as well. Decisions with often horrible results.
Brandi
Oct. 12th, 2012 at 12:59 pm
It doesn’t matter if the zygote/embryo has the potential to grow into a viable human being. It’s only _potential_. It is not yet a sentient viable creature, but the woman IS. Potential should never outweigh actuality.
As an illustration, I have the potential to become the greatest President the USA has ever known, or to become the worst serial murderer in history. However, I am currently neither, and I may never become either. So should you make decisions about me, based on me actually being either one, just because I have the potential to become that, someday?
Adult sentient creatures should have control over their own bodies, period. Your body is the only thing you can ever truly own. If the government can take that away, then freedom is merely an imaginary philosophical construct.
Oh…but only for women–men’s bodies are their own, of course.
Yogi29073
Oct. 12th, 2012 at 9:43 am
The only thing I know is this, for the past 4 years the GOP has done everything in its power to subvert this economy to assure a victory this November.
Two outstanding features of the GOP agenda is to: (1) Shrink Government and (2)Less regulation, so that government gets out of our daily lives. But wait a minuet, doesn’t regulating abortion clinics, instituting invasive procedures to humiliate women attempting to have abortions and throwing up as many bureaucratic government roadblocks to Abortion Clinics MORE regulation??
I’m confused! You want less regulation and less government unless your Christen moral values are being questioned?? Does the word Hypocrite have any meaning to you…the GOP??!!
Ryan is the poster boy of talking out of both sides of his mouth. He says that in case of rape, Abortion can be used, but then at the same time, he says that the method of conception has no bearing on the life within the mother, which basically says that rape or no rape, the child is gonna be born.
Somewhere along the line, the GOP is going to really piss off God, and when they and the fundamentalists do,what the Romans did to Christ is gonna be mild compared to what God (or Gods, in your case Hraf)are gonna do to the GOP. If you ask me, the sooner that happens, the better off our country and religious freedoms are going to be.
I say the following with a “slight” (read HUGE) case of sarcasm: Can I get an “Amen” for that!!
wildee7
Oct. 12th, 2012 at 10:01 am
The phoney hypocracy of the GOP religious beliefs is getting deep, if you know what I mean.
Kathie Wilson
Oct. 14th, 2012 at 12:57 am
The GOP is saying it is their ‘religious right’ to mandate everyone follow the tenets of THEIR PREFERRED religion. It is apparently ‘against Ryan’s religion’ for others to follow their own, and he would dearly like to say that ‘unelected judges’ who vote to overturn RvW, SHOULD have the freedom to do so, but that those who would never vote to overturn a woman’s right to make her own decisions regarding reproduction are ‘activists’, and subversives.’
What unmitigated HOGWASH.
Edna Hansen
Oct. 12th, 2012 at 10:04 am
As a woman when I apply for insurance that is a part of my compensation package when going to work. To deny me any generally accepted medication is to deny me a part of my compensation. The fact that it is available to me does not mean that if my religion tells me that taking it is wrong I will not be required to take it ONLY that it is available to me and my decision is between me and God.That is what freedom of religion means, not that others get to dictate my life based on their religious beliefs. If they truly believe in life why don’t they do more for the children who go hungry each night instead of cutting food stamps and the welfare agencies that protect children from being neglected and beaten to death
. As George Carlin once said if your preborn your protected if your preschool your F@*Ked.
RMuse
Oct. 12th, 2012 at 10:08 am
Ryan doesn’t want unelected judges to control women’s bodies, he wants the religious-right voters to exercise that control. Main point women can take away is that the GOP gives control of every woman’s body to anyone but the woman as detailed in the Christendom’s archaic manual (bible).
Jena Isle
Oct. 12th, 2012 at 10:29 am
This is an excellent article that clarifies exactly what each candidate supports.
Women should be left responsible for their own bodies. They’re the ones who would be living with their conscience.
Kudos for a well-written post.
pcinsc
Oct. 12th, 2012 at 10:44 am
if the repubs would just recognize that comprehensive sex education based in science and access to birth control, abortion rates would plummet:
Abortion rates plummet with free birth control
“Providing birth control to women at no cost substantially reduced unplanned pregnancies and cut abortion rates by a range of 62-78 percent compared to the national rate, a new study shows.
The research, by investigators at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis, appears online Oct. 4 in Obstetrics & Gynecology. …”
news.wustl.edu/news/Pages...
Donna
Oct. 12th, 2012 at 8:31 pm
I think their main point isn’t about abortion at all.. It’s about control. Nothing more, nothing less…
Shiva (Moderator)
Oct. 12th, 2012 at 9:26 pm
I think you are right. But it goes deeper. The fundies that run the GOP need soldiers for god at a time when the birth rate is going down and the skin color of the birth rate thats going up is just wrong for them
Kathie Wilson
Oct. 14th, 2012 at 1:11 am
There are plenty of folks who claim to be ‘pro-life’, who haven’t even CONTEMPLATED the issue at this depth. For them, it’s only about ‘getting those babies BORN’ and to hell with the feelings, needs, or best interests, of the vessel in which it resides. Only the fetus matters, and they don’t give a rodent’s rear what color it is. *(Unless it’s an ‘anchor baby’ – I find it hugely interesting that only the fetii of CITIZENS are impacted by most of the proposed ‘personhood’ legislation – but that’s another story, iddn it…)
There are far more so-called ‘representatives’ in Congress, however, who are ultimately concerned more with the ratio of whites to those of color, than the rights of ANYONE (other than their own, of course.)
Since the GOP has spent literally DECADES trying to fight the tide of immigration from countries which are primarily populated by non-white types, and the necessarily increased influence of these immigrants on the electoral process,
OF COURSE they want to outlaw abortion: WHITE WOMEN are having them. Oh, the horror.
Gimme a friggin’ break.
Ca
Oct. 12th, 2012 at 1:44 pm
Hrafnkell great article! Thanks!
Kenneth Morgan
Oct. 12th, 2012 at 2:46 pm
Ryan is a state’s rights guy with no regard for the federal government. He knows the GOP runs 33 states with their crazy religious ideas and will gleefully take away the rights of women, minorities, other religions just to drive their extremist agenda.
Well, sorry, Paulie, P90X poster child, you idiots are done. You have shown your true side and states will turn back to rational, sound governing. And, I hope to your God that this debate causes you to lose your congressional seat. You won’t be the next VP.
kimberly m smith
Oct. 13th, 2012 at 3:31 pm
Pro life is about the chance of life for the child not taking away womens rights. what about that is unclear? I very clearly saw my childs beating heart as well as very clear features at my 6 week ultrasound. As a nurse, I am fully aware that many abortions are after this 5-6 week mark. To me it is only a womans issue bc woman have babies, if men had babies I would feel the same way. We are the only animal that kills our children in utero. Im quite sure if people were forced to watch these babies trying to get away from the abotionists tools, you not only would see the brutality of it, you would probably lose your lunch.
Kathie Wilson
Oct. 14th, 2012 at 12:44 am
The so-called ‘pro-life’ meme holds no water anymore.
Be honest, kimberly: what you are saying is that the birth of the potential child is more important than the rights of the actual woman carrying it. Her rights, when pregnant, do not include personal risk assessment, bodily autonomy, or self-defense, in your view – the only thing that matters, is that she gestate, regardless of her circumstances. What you are further saying, is that the state (and your personal feelings) should have the final say over the contents of another woman’s uterus, and what she may legally do with it.
It would be nice if the so-called ‘pro-life’ faction, which cares nothing for the lives of women, soldiers, or the convicted, was finally honest about what they want – especially if you’re one of those lovely little hypocrites, like Mitt Romney, who mewl: “But it’s OKAY to abort if she was raped, or the victim of incest…” for political expedience: then it’s patently obvious that, for you, it’s not really the baby that matters either; it’s the fact that she had consensual sex, and refuses to “face the consequences.”
As if she put it there all by herself, and now ‘just wants to kill it.’
Face it, dear. You’re a fetus worshiper.
You fetus worshipers disgust me.
If you disagree with abortion, you are exquisitely free to never contemplate, seek, or obtain one. EVER.
That’s what ‘freedom of choice’ means, kimberly.
evette
Oct. 15th, 2012 at 2:46 am
Do you also know that their definition of pro-life means no contraception because that is killing the potential of life. I suppose your O.K. with that also. Or the fact that many abortions are obtained because the Father refused to have anything to do with the situation and demanded that it be done. Believe me if it was men who had children this would of never been an issue in the first place. And it is a CHOICE which means if you don’t agree then don’t have one, but don’t have the audacity to think you or anyone else should make the decision for another. Especially the same people who keep cutting all the programs to help children and families.
Reynardine
Oct. 15th, 2012 at 7:01 am
You saw features on a six-week-old embryo? You have seen embryos and fetuses of less than three months trying to “escape”? And you are supposed to be a nurse? If that is the level of your medical knowledge, you shouldn’t be trusted with a bedpan, but if that is the level of your malice and mendacity, you shouldn’t be trusted, period.