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For Rep. Bobby Franklin of Georgia, Rape Isn’t a Crime
more from Hrafnkell Haraldsson
Bobby Franklin: Proudly Protecting the Rights of Rapists in Georgia
Do you remember that old George Carlin joke about political correctness, that a plane crash would become an “unfavorable ground-air interaction” or that a rape victim would become an “unwilling sperm recipient”?
We’ve almost gotten to that point, but it’s worse. Georgia Republican state Rep. Bobby Franklin has decided that there is no such thing as a rape victim. He has introduced a bill “to be entitled” (it should be called the “anti-women bill”) which states:
To amend Titles 16 and 17 of the Official Code of Georgia Annotated, relating to criminal law and criminal procedure, respectively, so as to change the term “victim” to the term
“accuser” in the context of a number of statutes making reference to circumstances where there has not yet been a criminal conviction; to provide for related matters; to repeal
conflicting laws; and for other purposes.
You can have burglary victims and assault victims but if he has his way, rape victims will become “accusers” because, you know, a man is innocent until he is proven guilty. At least where rape is concerned.
It is difficult to grasp the extent of this Republican war on women. It is Rape is a horrific crime. It is a crime overwhelmingly committed by men against women. Republicans aren’t trying to legislate assaults and burglaries or fraud out of existence as crimes. The guilt or innocence of the accused is not an issue there. So why is it an issue in rape?
You still have a victim. She has still been raped, just as an assault victim has still been assaulted. But we don’t want to hurt a rapist’s feelings by suggesting he might have committed a crime by forcing sex on somebody. No, we can’t have that.
I respectfully suggest to Bobby Franklin that he get himself over to the local prison ASAP and experience rape so that he may be better informed to speak upon the subject. I humbly submit that his views on the matter may change drastically and for the better.
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75 Responses to For Rep. Bobby Franklin of Georgia, Rape Isn’t a Crime
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Ottr
Feb. 7th, 2011 at 9:36 am
What an idiot.
I’m thinking this ties into the whole “women are property” cr@p. As a survivor of (ex)spousal sexual assault, the whole “property” thing is a common excuse, one I myself heard. Rape isn’t a crime when the woman “belongs” to the rapist.
Labeling an already spiritually defeated rape victim as an “accuser”, rather than a “victim”, insinuates that the victim has done something to cause the violence perpetuated against her. Or that she’s just being spiteful.
These idiots should be required to spend just one day following a victims advocate around as they try to heal these broken women BEFORE they vote on these kinds of bills. Though, it’s doubtful that they’d be compelled to feel any sympathy at all.
Ugh!
Hrafnkell Haraldsson
Feb. 7th, 2011 at 9:54 am
There is a comment similar to yours at the FB page of this idiot, along with one of the most horrendous defenses of this idiot’s legislation I’ve ever see. I don’t know why any woman calls herself a Republican these days and I certainly hope we can build enough groundswell of outrage to knock these people on their backsides hard enough to at least scare some sense into them.
Duane Hytjan
Mar. 3rd, 2011 at 8:16 pm
Mr. Franklin now has a proposal in the Georgia congress to declare death to a woman who has a mis-carriage! Must have been the only one running for office in District 43 and won by one vote – his own!
Erin
Mar. 7th, 2011 at 11:31 am
I am a woman, and I am a republican but I think this man is delusional and a few other ‘choice words.’ Miscarriage is a natural proces and can happen to any woman, and rape is wrong. This man makes republicans look stupid.
Wisdom
Apr. 4th, 2011 at 11:35 pm
If you are a woman AND a rethuglican you need to investigate your mental illness and resolve it. There is NO WAY any woman can be a rethuglican without being a self-hating self-destructive person. Please find help.
Shiva (Moderator)
Apr. 4th, 2011 at 11:37 pm
Amen brudda
r wagner
Mar. 8th, 2011 at 9:41 am
he must hate women. he cant get it up is my quess.
and his mommy dropped him on his head once too many times.
what a poor excuse for a human being
Ottr
Feb. 7th, 2011 at 10:11 am
I’ve always been an Independent voter … as a Heathen, it doesn’t seem to me like there are any political parties that “speak for me”, and I vote according to the character of the individual(s) running.
But with the way the Republicants are working so hard to chip away at not only my rights as a free woman, but also my religious rights, I don’t foresee myself voting Republicant anytime in the near future, if ever again. I find it hard to fathom why any woman with half a brain can’t see the circular path the Republicants are laying down for us. And would vote against their own interests, regardless.
Baffles the mind.
Hrafnkell Haraldsson
Feb. 7th, 2011 at 10:32 am
It’s difficult as a Heathen, I agree. I have traditionally voted for the best candidate, of whichever party. But as the Republican Party has become the Christian Party I have found my options limited. Sometimes, I can’t even find a Democrat who is worthy of my vote.
As for voting against your own interest, I have to recommend a book to you that was given me as a Yule gift, George Lakoff’s The Political Mind: Why You Can’t Understand 21st-Century American Politics with an 18th-Century Brain (2008). It’s a fascinating read. Lakoff is a professor of cognitive science and linguistics and he’s really opening my eyes.
Ottr
Feb. 7th, 2011 at 10:49 am
Thanks for the book recommendation Hrafnkell! I’m always looking for good books to read, and any that can give me a little insight into the political mind is welcome.
It’s been added to my wish list, now I just have to wait till payday. :)
Diane
Feb. 7th, 2011 at 10:44 am
They must have spent many an hour, all those disgusting male republicans figuring out how to strip women of their rights so they could neatly and quickly overturn the abortion law.
“Crime victim compensation is a government program to reimburse victims of violent crimes- such as assault, homicide, rape, and, in some states, burglary – as well as their families for many of their out-of-pocket expenses. Every state has a crime victim compensation program.”
How quaint. A raped woman is no longer a “victim”. If she is no longer a victim, will she qualify for the victim compensation? Federal mandate that all states provide for victims of a crime.
How can republican women stand by and let the men of their party do this to them and their daughters?
Shiva (Moderator)
Feb. 7th, 2011 at 10:54 am
I am thinking that they are looking at the armchairsubversives site, where there is page after page of republicans convicted of raping, molesting and threatening underage girls.
Why are they trying to hard to alienate women? Is this the Christian taliban back on the job? Dont they understand women vote? Is this regressive intelligence? Should we expect low hairy eye brows from this guy at any time? Grunts and spear throwing?
Anne
Feb. 7th, 2011 at 12:26 pm
This shows they are stuck in a century other than this one, which is why they insist on fighting cultural wars. Everyday, they offer proof as to why it was an unwise decision for people to sit at home and not vote, just because they were dissatisfied with the way things were progressing. As a black woman, I have 2 compelling reasons not to vote Republican–both because of the neanderthal attitudes about women and the unabashed racial bigotry that has raised its ugly head since Obama’s election. But in addition, I am concerned enough about the well-being of fellow Americans to see that these folks couldn’t care less about that well-being. Just when I think they can’t do anything else to sicken and anger me, they always outdo themselves.
K
Feb. 7th, 2011 at 12:01 pm
I dont think I want to live in this country anymore.
Hrafnkell Haraldsson
Feb. 7th, 2011 at 1:35 pm
None of us will if the Republicans get in charge, including the Republicans.
John Rohan
Feb. 7th, 2011 at 12:55 pm
Someone please tell me what is objectionable about this language:
change the term “victim” to the term “accuser” in the context of a number of statutes making reference to circumstances where there has not yet been a criminal conviction;
If your only objection is that other criminal statutes don’t make this distinction, then just change the other ones also. What is the problem exactly?
An ‘accuser’ is just that. There are rare times when women lie about being raped, so not every single one is a victim. Can anyone refute this?
Shiva (Moderator)
Feb. 7th, 2011 at 1:01 pm
* bumf
victim
- 3 dictionary results
vic·tim
/ˈvɪktɪm/ Show Spelled[vik-tim] Show IPA
–noun
1. a person who suffers from a destructive or injurious action or agency: a victim of an automobile accident.
2. a person who is deceived or cheated, as by his or her own emotions or ignorance, by the dishonesty of others, or by some impersonal agency: a victim of misplaced confidence; the victim of a swindler; a victim of an optical illusion.
3. a person or animal sacrificed or regarded as sacrificed: war victims.
4. a living creature sacrificed in religious rites.
——————————————————————–
ac·cus·er
/əˈkyuzər/ Show Spelled[uh-kyoo-zer] Show IPA
–noun
a person who accuses, especially in a court of law: a trial in which the accuser and accused may freely speak.
I am certain you can tell the difference
Hrafnkell Haraldsson
Feb. 7th, 2011 at 1:35 pm
He’s not trying to change the other crimes, John. He’s going after women. On top of the other recent congressional attacks on women and the effort to redefine rape out of existence, you don’t find this at all troubling? There are people who lie about being assaulted and defrauded as well, you know. That doesn’t make the victims not victims.
Ottr
Feb. 7th, 2011 at 2:02 pm
What’s objectionable?
Changing the terminology insinuates that *all* women are only “accusing” someone of rape, and have not actually suffered a violent attack, or they are using a rape charge as revenge for … whatever. It places the assailant as victim, and the rape victim as the aggressor.
She will remain a rape victim whether or not the man that assaulted her is actually convicted of the crime or not. Placing the victim under a different label will never change the fact that she has been violated, it will only change the already crappy perception of rape victims.
I’d ask you, is a woman who decides not to bring charges against the man that assaulted her any less a victim, than the woman who steps into a courtroom to seek justice?
Juli
Feb. 13th, 2011 at 3:23 pm
It’s a problem because he’s not going after all criminal statutes! He is going souly after crimes that generaly focus on women! Why don’t you see that as a problem? This is clearly just another effort to silence women and bully them into their *proper* place!
Scott
Feb. 26th, 2011 at 1:26 pm
Ok, on it’s own this proposal is largely symbolic. It does nothing to change the intent of the statutes involved, nor does it weaken the rights of women in proceedings against an alleged rapist…. so what’s the point? There is no point… he’s not proposing any meaningful change to the law. Why is he proposing this…for the symbolism, of course. In doing this he’s being very clear that he does not believe that women who are sexually assaulted are victims. That’s what is so objectionable… he’s not trying to improve the law in any way, he’s simply giving the finger to women who say they have been raped.
You also have to look at this in a broader context. In just about every legislative session since 2002 he has introduced legislation which would criminalize all abortions (not unexpected given his views, or his constituency)… but which further can be interpreted to make having a miscarriage a felony unless it can be show that it was “in no way whatsoever” the result of human action. In other words, you’re presumed to have murdered your fetus if you have a miscarriage.
This nut job has declared a one man war on women. I try very hard not to paint all Republicans with that brush since most of them I know (regardless of their views on abortion) are not misogynistic raving lunatics like this clown. That’s hard to do when the people of his district keep sending him back.
yoteech
Mar. 6th, 2011 at 11:32 am
I beg to differ. There are a few republicans who are moderate and well balanced in their views. However far too many of them are just like this nut case or very close to his views. The war against women is waged by many more than one man. Globally it is waged by the majority of men. In places where women have won some freedom and rights it is only because we have fought tooth and nail for those rights.
Men, by a and large, hate women unless they can own and control us.
Reynardine
Feb. 7th, 2011 at 2:09 pm
There are really far more people who lie about arson, robery, burglary, larceny, and the deaths of their near and dear, just to collect insurance money. Far more rape victims lie by denying having been than nonvictims lie about having been rape victims. Nonetheless, within my living memory- and I am aging, but not ancient – a rape victim was called a “prosecutrix”, as if her sole motive coming forward was to convict a man, however innocent, and judges were required to caution the jury that she was likely to be lying. And yes, by designating complaining victims in sexual and domestic battery cases as “accusers”, while sufferers from other crimes are defined as “victims”, these “accusers” – mostly women and children – are likely to be ruled ineligible for either help or compensation unless and until there is a conviction, by which time disease, pregnancy, and physical and emotional trauma are past the point of no return.
Hrafnkell Haraldsson
Feb. 7th, 2011 at 3:06 pm
Laws make it hard enough on rape victims now without this added layer of misogyny from conservatives. You don’t see people trying to make an assault or robbery victim look like he brought it on or “asked for it.” We know who the real criminals are here and politicians like Bobby Franklin is putting themselves squarely in the corner with rapists. It’s almost a pro-rape lobby at this point.
Rmuse
Feb. 7th, 2011 at 5:00 pm
I swear to god if I ever see this piece of scum, I will unleash every ounce of training I can muster on him. This is such an outrage. How any man with a wife, daughter, sister, mother etc can stand for this is beyond comprehension. You’re right Hraf, it is difficult to grasp the extent the Republicans will go to to torture women. Your prison scenario is too good for this animal.
My day was kind of floating along nicely. That’s over. I’m unable to process this information rationally. I’m sick.
Sarah Jones
Feb. 7th, 2011 at 6:12 pm
Since statistics prove that most rape incidents are not reported and those that are have a stunningly poor chance of resulting in a conviction, what they’re really doing is relegating women back to being labeled “accuser” (i.e, one step away from liar). This makes sense since so many Republican officials have been charged in the last several years of rape and sexual harassment. I give you the Republican who was not only cheating on his wife, but then molested his girlfriend’s daughter. And then the Connecticut Republican they ran as senator who got arrested for fraud and in the process, it was discovered that he was molesting two little girls who were the daughters of his prostitute mistress. Republican chairman of the Oregon Christian Coalition confessed to molesting a 13-year old girl. And how about some obscure names, Nicholas Elizondo – Director of the “Young Republican Federation” molested his 6-year old daughter and was sentenced to six years in prison. Earl “Butch” Kimmerling – The Republican anti-gay activist was sentenced to 40 years in prison for molesting an 8-year old girl after he attempted to stop a gay couple from adopting her. Family values. The list is endless. But it’s no wonder they want to redefine victim and rape.
Just this past election, the number of Republicans who had backgrounds of spousal abuse, sexual harassment, rape — it was astonishing because it wasn’t cause for them to stop running.
I think our instincts of fairness keep us from saying the truth often, because these people have so jumped the shark that we are left in shock at their every move and we have to wonder, is this really that bad? Then we realize, yes, this is worse even that it appears at first glance. The Republicans are the party of rape. They proved that with the Halliburton scandal, and then over and over again, by running misogynistic women and children abusing men who do not even recognize how wrong they are.
yoteech
Mar. 6th, 2011 at 11:37 am
I’m with you 100%. How can we find the lists of these criminals and the crimes they have been “accused” of…and convicted of?
jebshaven
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 7:13 am
Well see, if it were his wife or daughter that was the ‘victim’ it would be a whole different thing. But as long as it’s yours or at least someone else’s they’re just ‘the accuser’.
Same old Republican s**t. We care about us and ours but we don’t care a f**k about you or yours.
sick
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 8:12 pm
bobby franklin has lost his mind. im a woman republican and this man does not represent all republicans. how stupid to even think this way.
Anjelica Grinnell
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 8:14 pm
Rape is one of the scariest things a woman can face on this earth. I do not understand how Rep. Bobby Franklin, of Georgia, who is the father of three and has a wife, could try to take the name of rape victims away. I would bet my life that if it were one of his kids or his wife that was held for a period of time for someone to use as their personal “sex doll”, and maybe they couldn’t prove it in a court of law so their Sexual Predator could come back and do it all over again, he would have quite a different standpoint. What if his baby were in the hands of a rapist? Maybe they get away maybe they get brutally murdered, which I understand is a whole other charge, Would he want his youngest child to be referred to as a “Rape Accuser”? I think not. It’s people like this that make me wonder why people can’t put themselves and their loved ones in another human beings shoes before they open their arrogant, obnoxious pieholes.
laurel newlon
Feb. 8th, 2011 at 8:37 pm
franklins” comments don”t have anything to do with him being a repubican it”s because he is evidently just an idiot. I am a republican and I totally disagree with him. there are just as many dems. who say stupid things. you can”t condem a whole political party because of a few bad apples.
yoteech
Mar. 6th, 2011 at 11:42 am
That’s what the Roman Catholic church said about the sexual abusers and the pastors and bishops who covered up their crimes for years and years. Those bad apples are in the majority and the more moderate republicans DO NOT SPEAK OUT AGAINST SUCH HATE just as the few good priests did not speak out against the church. Corruption, corruption, corruption!
curtis
Feb. 10th, 2011 at 1:55 am
So this is just ducky. Some dudes want to go out and screw around as much as they want, using absolutely no good judgment in who they have a fling with. Some guys even seek out volatile women because they like the hot sex, and to protect their apparent right to pursue as much irresponsible nookie as they please, women who are crime victims have to pay the price with unequal access to justice and automatically stigmatized as false accusers? What a load. This whole false rape accusation hysteria has gone too far. Instead of making crime victims pay the price, how about certain paranoid dudes take some of the personal responsibility burden for their sex lives and not shove it all onto women. As for the types of guys who are always ranting about false accusations, like our dear friend who sponsored this bill, and couldn’t pursue much nookie if they tried, well, well, well, what’s up with that? Hate to sound nasty but it does appear to be some serious sour grapes.
Fox
Feb. 20th, 2011 at 7:53 pm
As truly horrible a crime rape is, and as vile and reprehensible Bobby Franklin’s actions are, I hate that this article basically insinuates that only women can be rape victims and that only men can be rapists. It’s horrendously sexist, and it’s dead wrong. But I don’t blame the author of this article. That notion is seared into the brains of our society. But know that there are male rape victims, too, and there are far more of them than you think. The reason why this article says that rape is a crime overwhelmingly committed by men against women is that the source came from studies about police reports conducted by the DOJ. But seriously, answer this question for me. How many men do you know who would readily call the cops and tell them that they’ve been raped by a woman or assaulted by their girlfriends or wives, especially without sacrificing their masculinity in the process? A female rape victim would get all the love and support in the world from her friends, but a male rape victim’s friends would never let him live it down. They’d call him a spineless, effeminate loser for years on end. Far fewer male-victim sexual assaults are reported to police than female-victim sexual assaults. The same thing goes for domestic violence. This effectively biases studies on this subject. And what of the question concerning how many false rape reports there are compared to true rapes?
Basically what I’m saying is that we need to forget all these sexist notions about rape, stop treating it like a male-dominated crime and start looking at it from a gender-neutral point of view.
yoteech
Mar. 6th, 2011 at 11:47 am
Male domination and anger are often the source of energy for rape whether it is against a woman or another male. Far fewer women engage in that behavior. Far more men do rape than women…in this case gender neutral is another way to hide an unpleasant truth.
James Landrith
Mar. 25th, 2011 at 9:15 pm
Except when that is not the case. I was raped by a woman. I’m not gonna hide in the corner or pretend it didn’t happen simply because you’d rather not acknowledge the existence of female predators.
Take away my PTSD, give me back my trust and pay me back for my related expenses and we can then talk about “unpleasant truths.”
This has to be one of the most sexist and minimizing statements made about male survivors in a long time.
JACKIE
Feb. 21st, 2011 at 3:41 pm
After checking out the Wikipedia entry for this “representative” I was not surprised to find that he graduated from Covenant College-an extremely conservative Presbyterian school with a degree in Biblical studies and business administration. I would object a lot less if they used accuser for all crimes. But, this? If you really want to feel like you’ve taken a walk through the village middens in July at mid day check out the entries on Ron Paul’s website for entries on Mr. Franklin’s crazy idea. They think it’s great.
Eleni
Feb. 22nd, 2011 at 8:16 pm
Firstly, his comments have nothing to do with him being a republican. He’s obviously just an idiot, and one that should never have been voted into office. I completely disagree with him and I lean mostly towards republican views.
My own sister was a victim of rape and to think that someone who’s gone through something as terrible as that and been violated in that way IS a victim. This really makes me wonder what he would think if his wife or daughter was raped. I mean, really, what the hell?
Sarah Jones
Feb. 22nd, 2011 at 8:23 pm
I think since many Republicans are pushing this meme, it’s fair to say it’s about his Republicanism – you’re not going to hear that from a Democrat. All over the country we have Republicans trying to redefine rape, take away reproductive rights from women, take labor laws for children away, — it’s just crazy right now. It’s important to note that the Republicans of today are not our parent’s Republicans. They no longer stand for fiscal conservatism, for instance. They stand for these crazy social wedge issues and a claim of cutting spending, but that’s a claim they have never followed through on – in fact, they spent more under Bush while they lowered taxes. They need to reform that party and rein in these nut jobs.
Katrina
Feb. 24th, 2011 at 4:17 am
Agreed. Republicans used to be great. I remember a time when it was the Democrats fighting for slavery and Republicans fighting for the freedom and rights of slaves.
Cliff Shaffer
Feb. 22nd, 2011 at 10:47 pm
I too hope he visits prisons to learn what is rape…several prisons and for long stays!! But I fear he may enjoy and it will not accomplish what we want him to experience there!!
Katrina
Feb. 24th, 2011 at 4:15 am
Yeah,well. He looks like a rapist.
Misinformed idiots
Feb. 24th, 2011 at 9:58 am
First all of you are idiots. That is exactly why this country is having such problems. An extreme Republican who doesnt share the views of other Republicans tries to force his religious values into a bill. Well of course this should piss you women off. However, this will never pass. Come on people, every political party has extremists. The problem is you generalize to Republicans want to strip the rights of women. That is the most idiotic thing I have ever heard. Get real people. Dont vote for the asshole, if you dont like what he stands for. But dont generalize, vote for the politician who is the most qualified to get the job done and do what the majority of its constituents want. By the way I am Democrat. Please get educated yourself people. TD
Scott
Feb. 26th, 2011 at 9:18 pm
Ok, misinformed idiot… you’re a Democrat… but are you a GEORGIA Democrat? If you’re not in Georgia you really have no idea the kinds of whacked things the Georgia Republicans can do. I’ve lived in this state 46 years and I have seen what these clowns can do. I am not as confident as you that this would not pass.
Raising holy hell about things like this, even if they have no chance, is entirely appropriate. Why, well, consider this guy’s history. He’s been doing crap like this since 1997. He’s been introducing anti-abortion legislation that essentially criminalizes miscarriage every year since 2002.
No, it doesn’t stand a snowballs chance in hell of passing. The problem is, his district keeps sending him back! I know something of that district… some of my family live there and many of my coworkers do. Yes, it’s conservative, but it’s not “American Taliban” conservative. The problem is, they don’t see stuff like this… after 9 years of pulling this crap, it’s only this year his insanity has received any attention.
If people don’t raise hell about crap like this, even if it stands no chance, how will the constituency that sends the guy to the state house every year ever seem him for what he is: a misogynistic theocrat.
Phil Atio
Feb. 25th, 2011 at 3:24 pm
The problem or what I see as right here is that the Republican makes a good point. I’m not saying rape victims are not victims. The differences is this, if a person is robbed they are a victim because a police man can come see the smashed in window, the missing items, the beat up victim. Most rapes occur between people who know each other and no violence is involved, it is a dispute of consensual vs non consensual sex, like the case of Julian Assange… its not even disputed if the sex was consensual it is disputed if the condom use was consensual. The robber usual denies he does the act all together, it wasn’t me. Ok but that does not change the fact that a robbery victim has a smashed in window, head and missing items.. still a victim. If however a women engaged in consensual sex… she is no longer a victim… she is a false accuser. So no not everyone who alledges rape is a rape victim because some of the accusations are false (10-95% depending on who you ask) and if there was consensual sex as the accused claims there was no victim. In the case of a robbery, even if the robber denies robbing you, it does not change the facts that you have evidence of being robbed. Now if a robber said that you were not robbed at all (which no robber ever does) then it would be an accused and accuser situation. But rape except in the 5% of cases where doctors can prove rape, are inherently accusatory in nature because of lack of hard evidence. The presence of semen means nothing in 95% of cases because men alledge that the sex was consensual and this is what experts find in 94% of cases which is why only 6% of cases are prosecuted
Reynardine
Feb. 25th, 2011 at 3:45 pm
Methinx you have no acquaintance with either gynaecology or forensics.
yoteech
Mar. 6th, 2011 at 11:56 am
…and that your name here is just a sexual joke!
Jenna
Feb. 25th, 2011 at 10:58 pm
That’s not robbery, that’s breaking and entering which is basically what rape is, too. Except the “broken window” isn’t out there for everyone to see. In an alleged robbery, the “proof” that you’ve been robbed is the LACK of something, which is no more proof of theft than proof of accidentally misplacing something. And that’s no where near as bad as rape. They’re both forms of violation, but rape is deeply personal, and incredibly invasive.
I can’t help but think you’re saying that it isn’t rape as long as ONE party consents, but maybe I’m reading into it too much. If I assume you’re saying it’s a case of he-said/she-said, well, sometimes it is, but so are a lot of other crimes.
Anyway, if any other kind of assault still has “victims”, it’s an awful double standard that sexual assault should be any different. If a person (male or female) feels that they have been sexually violated, whether the other party (or parties) involved disagree, that person will feel like a victim. Just because Person A doesn’t think what he/she is doing to Person B is rape does NOT mean that Person B won’t feel violated. So even the idea of “false accusation” is ridiculous. Anyone who fakes feeling that kind of betrayal and violation obviously has other psychological problems to work out, but it’s more likely that if you FEEL violated, you were probably (knowingly or not) violated.
And I can’t help think of the man who actually got a pay-out from his insurance company by insuring a box of Cuban cigars and then claiming they burned in a series of small fires. If that’s not a false accusation, I don’t know what is!
P.S., where are you getting your “statistics”? Because they make absolutely no logical sense, and I’m pretty sure you pulled them out of thin air.
TomorrowTheSun
Feb. 25th, 2011 at 11:47 pm
73% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
yoteech
Mar. 6th, 2011 at 11:59 am
A good book on the subject of statistics: HOW TO LIE WITH STATISTICS
Scott
Feb. 25th, 2011 at 5:47 pm
Your portrayal of the bill is disengenuous at best.
DET
Feb. 25th, 2011 at 6:23 pm
The guy may be a nutcase, but he’s right here. There are two elements to a rape: 1) sexual intercourse (or at least contact) between two or more people; 2) unwillingness on the part of one of the persons to participate in the sexual activity. William Kennedy Smith (a shirttail relative of the Kennedy clan) was accused of rape by a young woman. He maintained that, while sexual contact did occur, it was consensual. The jury agreed with him. It found that, despite the fact there was an accuser, there was no victim. Since a person is innocent unless and until proven otherwise (i.e., a jury is convinced that a rape has been perpetrated by the person in question), there is also no victim. The issue would have been different if the accuser had said that the accused had raped her and the accused had acknowledged that a rape occurred, but said someone else did it.
Want another example? Try Crystal Gail Mangum, the woman who (falsely, as it turned out) accused the Duke lacrosse team of gang-raping her. She was an accuser, but not a victim.
Jenna
Feb. 25th, 2011 at 11:01 pm
Yes, Crystal Gail Mangum in your example was an accuser and not a victim. But what about the tens of thousands of people who are victims who never accuse (whether out of fear, or shame, or any other reason)? I’d venture to guess there are more victims who don’t accuse than there are accusers who weren’t victimized.
Karen
Feb. 25th, 2011 at 6:56 pm
Why is it that out of the sadly ignorant rape apologist comments made above,
why is it that there seems to be no expectation held that a man is so incapable of controlling his violent urges that he just cant stop if a woman says no.
Why is it up to me to be responsible for someone elses lack of self control?
Karen
Feb. 25th, 2011 at 7:00 pm
After rereading it seems as tho flu garbled my meaning. :-)
basically – why is it that you think men cant stop their violent or sexual feelings.
And if so – why is it that I, being a woman, am expected to control mine?
Reynardine
Feb. 26th, 2011 at 12:05 am
Why, the whole idea behind this construct is to make the victim responsible for her victimhood, of course.
Karen
Feb. 26th, 2011 at 1:17 am
Their acts give the appearance of a belief that only males or the unborn are worthy of the label victim.
Rape is tolerated, excused, ignored and explained away in this country far too often. Maybe if there was more of a social stigma it would be less of a problem, no?
Now back to Nyquill dreams. :-)
Eric
Feb. 26th, 2011 at 7:56 pm
www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Boycott-Georgia-State-district-43/205665319447753
Lynda Sposato
Feb. 27th, 2011 at 11:32 am
Miscarriage of Justice
Representative Franklin,
It is very difficult for me to imagine that anyone could mistake rape from sexual consent. I also respect your right to see it that way. I implore you to consider respecting my right to disagree.
Unfortunately you are choosing an issue that you cannot possibly understand. You are also underestimating the power of women who lose the right to choose.
Try very, very hard to imagine how you would feel if a member of your family were violated. It might allow you to get inside the emotion of the crime. It is only then that you might grasp the concept of choice.
Please reconsider the impact of your proposed legislation. It is criminal, at best. It reminds me why I believe that men should not even be allowed to vote on issues of this nature.
Lynda Sposato
New York
taloolah@aol.com
Brock L. Turner
Mar. 1st, 2011 at 3:30 am
Rape is a horrible, invasive, disgusting, cruel crime and anyone who has ever been a victim of sexual assault has experienced a crime and tragedy of which I feel confident I will never be able to fully experience or relate to. I want to make it very clear that I in no way support perpetrators of sexual violence nor do I in any way wish to belittle the unimaginable amount of pain and trauma any woman who has ever experienced sexual assault has felt. I also want to say that during my freshman orientation at Guilford College in Greensboro, North Carolina in the Fall of 1999 we a had speaker come to talk about sexual assault and date rape on college campuses and as she was getting to expressing the exact time and moment she was brutally raped she said, “And you don’t know what I would give for just one moment, one time, for just one man to stand up and say definitively ‘Rape Is Wrong!’…” and at that exact moment I stood up without hesitation and stated very clearly and very passionately “Rape Is Wrong!” and thankfully 3 or 4 of my freshman male classmates followed my lead and did likewise. The speaker was very touched and very thankful because she said almost never at that point in her giving this presentation hundreds of times at hundreds of colleges does she get such response from any male college students, and even recalled one incident during her presentation when a male college student had stood up right then and there and “You skank! If I were your boyfriend I would have done exactly to you what he did, you don’t know anything about men!” I remember being very upset and disturbed by that story and felt truly proud to have taken such a bold action when apparently so few ever did.
Yes, the BUT is coming…
I do firmly believe that the vast majority of women reporting sexual assault and rape are indeed victims of a heinous and egregious crime and their reports should be taken seriously. I also believe a lot more rape crisis centers and response services should be available to deal with all the physical and emotional pain that goes along with any sexual assault as soon as the act is reported. All that having been said, I remember that after the feature presenter during my freshman orientation gave her speech, our freshman class was divided into men and women to have sort of a heart-to-heart about the presentation. A lot of us males were feeling very guilty and ashamed about even being men and having any sexual desires. Admittedly the person who facilitated our group was an adult man, but he was a close friend of the presenter and a worker at a rape crisis center. He did tell us in approximately 2-4% of reported rapes the woman will later recant, admitting that no rape took place and that she was trying to get back at a former boyfriend. Admittedly, some of those incidents may have been women who really were raped by were too afraid to go forward with the trial, but I do think it is important to note that not every single person who ever reports having been a victim of sexual assault is necessarily a victim, but in some rare incidents they may in fact be an accuser accusing an innocent person of a crime they did not commitment. I’m fully aware that far too many people get away with egregious crimes, not the least of which is sexual assault, and I do believe this is an epic tragedy and lack of real justice, but I do believe in the American legal model for better or for worse of every person being assumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. I understand that passions run very high on this issue, but I do think it is possible, even if very unlikely, for any person, male or female to bean accuser accusing another person of sexual assault or rape when in he or she was not really a victim of such a crime. As I have made clear herein, I believe in much more money, time, and services available for sexual assault crisis response, but I do hope that someone being accused of any crime will not automatically been seen as “the perpetrator” of the crime experienced by “the victim”, when every person has the right of being presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
RNinGA
Mar. 2nd, 2011 at 11:00 pm
2-4% Really?! That’s what you have based your whole argument upon? What about the other 96-98%?!
Brock L. Turner
Mar. 3rd, 2011 at 1:53 am
My point is simply that not every single alleged rape always has “victim” or a “perpetrator.” There are some cases, even if very, very rare, where there is no real crime and no “victim.” I believe in a justice system based on innocence until proven guilt, and my heart certainly goes out to anyone who has ever been accused of a crime they did not commit.
scott
Mar. 3rd, 2011 at 3:08 pm
look, I don’t practice ANY religion, but I was raised in a Christian family. I have taken religious studies classes in college, and consider ALL religions that preach equality and humanity to be valid religions. This is starting to sound a little like many areas of the world that suppress womens rights–as human beings. Pull your head out of your ass. . . with every other crime, there is a victim and the accused. That’s how it works. While you are considered innocent until PROVEN guilty, you are the accused–if you can’t handle the way things are done–move to another country where rights are suppressed and you can have some jackass like this guy regulate what you do on a daily basis. If you are the accused, are found NOT GUILTY, who cares what anyone else thinks–you were judged by your peers and found NOT GUILTY–Clearly this man should not be representing any other person. . . he is clearly biased based on his religion and his own personal beliefs. He should thrown out of office. Remember–SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE!
kfreed
Mar. 3rd, 2011 at 6:18 am
Today: there’s no such thing as rape
Tomorrow: there’s no such thing as women’s suffrage
Dominionists in action:
[tag: Women's rights, voting rights]
www.delicious.com/InsaniT...
Lianne McMahan
Mar. 3rd, 2011 at 9:04 am
Does anyone else see a tidy link between calling the rape victim an “accuser”, therefore, “not raped until she proves it” and the current trend to limiting abortions to rape and incest victims?
So if these legislations go through, a woman who is raped needs to wait until her court case is heard to prove she is a victim, as the abortion clock ticks and the fetus grows. At some point abortion becomes either mentally impossible, or illegal.
Abortion “problem” solved!
scott
Mar. 3rd, 2011 at 2:11 pm
WHat the hell is going on these days? These are the people that are ruining this country! Throw the bastard out of office! This guy is a complete moron–he should NEVER be allowed to represent women–he obviously doesn’t like them very much. I wonder if it would change his mind if he was raped–maybe he’d like it. . .
Alf
Mar. 3rd, 2011 at 4:08 pm
It completely blows my mind, especially in this time period, even in America, that Bobby Franklin is criminalizing rape victims. If he wanted to make a name for himself in the political arena, he’s have much better luck lobbying for the castration (or better yet, immediate, swift, painful death) for violent sex offenders and pedophiles.
Even now (March 3, 2011) he’s calling for the DEATH PENALTY for women who miscarry.
and bobby franklin (intentionally lowercased) doesn’t need to be corrected not be grilled by rape victims’ or womens’ rights advocates.
he needs to be SHOT DEAD. as quickly as possible. Men like him forfeit their right to even breathe.
He is nothing more than a criminal for just proposing this “legislation” which is equivalent to extreme Islamic laws.
somebody shoot him already
[email protected]
Mar. 3rd, 2011 at 5:57 pm
If anyone hasn’t heard yet, hes trying to pass a bill to make miscarriages punishable by the death penalty. as if the women drove a knife into her stomach and cut the baby..its not murder. its someone losing their child you fucking idiot
Ssskkk
Mar. 5th, 2011 at 12:35 am
@Hrafnkell Haraldsson, why do you say the Republican war on women? I’m not a Republican, but I have been around long enough to know better than to lump all Republicans into one group.
Betty
Mar. 7th, 2011 at 5:25 am
Oh, this is only a PIECE of his insanity. He has now had a bill written that states that women who have had a miscarriage should suffer the death penalty! How do these crazy people get voted into office? Hey – folks in Georgia…. this guy needs to be sent out of town on a rail – straight into a psych ward!
Anonymous
Mar. 7th, 2011 at 11:01 am
What is it with you leftists and your lack of concern for men victimized by false rape accusations? If a woman who makes a rape accusation is a “victim” then the man she accused is guilty. If he is not guilty, then she is not a “victim,” but rather a liar. In the case of a burglary, it is entirely possible that the wrong man could be put on trial for the crime. In the case of a rape, the accused is either guilty or the accuser is a liar. There is no 3rd option. Therefore, calling these women “victims” is implying that the man she accused is a “rapist” when he hasn’t even been convicted yet! When a man robs a woman’s house, she is a “victim” even if the wrong man is caught, tried, and acquitted. In the case of rape, it simply isn’t possible to get the wrong man.
I am shocked that some people in this comment thread call for the murder of this elected official. What ever happened to that talk about “civility” from a few months ago? I forgot, it is only conservatives that are supposed to be “civil” while liberals can be as nasty as they want to those with whom they disagree. Since you are pro-abortion, isn’t threatening to kill people a bad idea since it helps to confirm for many people that you are not really pro-choice, but rather anti-life?
Shiva (Moderator)
Mar. 7th, 2011 at 11:18 am
Anti-life as in the John McCain version of war forever?
What percentage of rape cases involved men victimized by false rape accusations? Its very very small. Where is your concern for the large numbers of women who are raped?
jonnie graham
Mar. 13th, 2011 at 9:23 pm
This is the biggest bunch of bull I have EVER heard in my life. Does this senator (or whatever he is calling himself) live or want to live in the Dark Ages, where women were mere Chattel for men?
I live in Kentucky, and as Backwards as they are here, they did have the common sense and good graces to repeal the law that says a married man can have unwanted sex with his wife. Marital rape is reprehensible, and disgusting. Get a life, Mr. Franklin, because you are NOT doing the women of your district any favors.