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Herman Cain Admits That His 9-9-9 Plan Is A Tax Increase On the 99%
Herman Cain admitted today on Meet The Press that his9-9-9 plan does raise taxes on “some Americans,” a.k.a. the middle class, the poor, the young, the elderly, the people who are the 99%.
Here is the video from NBC News:
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Transcript from NBC:
David Gregory: The reality of the 9-9-9 plan is this, I’ll put it up on the screen. It is to have a 9% corporate income tax. 9% personal income tax. 9% sales tax. everything else is gone.
Herman Cain: Yes.
Gregory: The reality of the plan is that some people pay more, some people pay less. This is how “The Washington Post” reported it on Friday, we’ll put it up on the screen. Experts see surprise in Cain’s 9-9-9 plan. The 9-9-9 plan that has helped propel businessman Cain to the front of the GOP presidential field would stick many poor and middle-class people with a hefty tax increase while cutting taxes for those at the top, tax analysts say. Robert Williams, a senior fellow at the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center is working on an analysis of Cain’s signature proposal. Williams said it would increase taxes for the poor and middle class, despite Cain’s statements to the contrary. For starters, about 30 million of the poorest households pay neither income taxes nor Social Security or Medicare levees, so for them, he says, doing away with the payroll tax doesn’t save anything and you’re adding both a 9% sales tax and a 9% income tax, so we know they will be worse off. That’s the reality, Mr. Cain. Without making a judgment about it, why do you think that’s an acceptable reality for the overall goal of reform?
Cain: First, they’re missing one very critical point about sales tax. it wasn’t even mentioned in that analysis that you read. On the price of goods there are invisible taxes that are built into everything we buy. We’ll simply — those invisible taxes are going to go away, and we’re replacing them with a 9% visible tax. For example, take a loaf of bread. The farmer pays taxes on his profits. The company that makes the flour, the baker, the delivery man. By the time that loaf of bread gets to the grocery store, there are a series of invisible taxes, which are also called embedded taxes. So in reality, those taxes go away, and so the price of goods don’t go up.
Gregory: You’re saying they actually go down?
Cain: Yes, they actually go down.
Gregory: Based on what?
Cain: Based upon competition. Competition drives prices down. For example, suppose one bread maker says I’m going to charge $2.20 for a loaf of bread, and the other one says he’s going to charge $2.40 for a loaf of bread. Well, guess which one is going to win out based on the quality of being the same?
Gregory: My question had to do, however, with the reality of this plan. The wealthiest Americans would pay less, the poorest Americans and middle-class would pay more. You don’t dispute that?
Cain: I do dispute that. You and others are making assumptions about what wealthy Americans would do with their money, and you’re making assumptions about what the middle-class and the poor. You can’t predict the behavior. If wealthy Americans–
Gregory: This isn’t about behavior, Mr. Cain, this is about whether you pay — if you don’t pay taxes now, and you now have income tax a sales tax, you pay more in taxes.
Cain: More people will pay less in taxes. More people will pay less in taxes.
Gregory: Mr. Cain, we talked to independent analysts ourselves.
Cain: Yes.
Gregory: We’re not just reading newspaper clips here.
Cain: I understand.
Gregory: They tell us they’ve looked at this based on what’s available and it’s incontrovertible. There are people who will pay more.
Cain: That’s right. Some people will pay more, but most people will pay less is my argument.
Gregory: Who will pay more?
Cain: Who will pay more? The people who spend more money on new goods, the sales tax only applies to people who buy new goods. Not used goods. That’s a big difference that doesn’t come out.
Gregory: For those 30 million Americans who don’t pay income tax, including 16 million elderly Americans, you concede they would, in fact, pay more.
Cain: Not the elderly. That’s two different groups. Let’s talk about the elderly. You don’t pay taxes on your Social Security income. It replaces the capital gains tax. Many of the elderly make money off of their investments, they won’t pay that. Tax on dividends and tax on income generated from investments, you only pay once. So in that sense, it helps the elderly.
If you listened closely, you could almost hear the air leaking out of the Herman Cain bubble while he answered.
Cain is not being honest about the impact his plan would have on the poor and elderly. Most of the Americans who don’t pay taxes are the elderly and the disabled. Those people would be hard hit under Cain’s plan, which would place a 9% on every new good purchased. Food and medicine would be considered new goods, and would be subjected to the 9%.
The 9-9-9 plan would also get rid of valuable tax credits that help the middle class, and would subject students and young people to higher rate of taxation on almost everything they buy. Notice that Cain’s examples of those who benefit included corporations, almost all of American farming is now corporate agribusiness, and people who have substantial investment income. The truth about Cain’s scheme is that behind its catchy name is more Republican wealth redistribution for the richest Americans.
Cain doesn’t need the third nine on the title of his plan. His plan should be called the 99% plan, because he is going to raise taxes on the ninety nine percent in order to lower taxes even more for the one percent.
His plan would raise taxes on the unemployed, the young, the old, the middle class, and the poor. The only people who benefit from a flat tax are the wealthy. The 9-9-9 plan is a regressive tax that would take the GOP of concentrating wealth at the top to a new level.
When Cain admitted that some people will pay more he was speaking a bit of truth, but the fact is that a lot of people who can least afford it will pay more, so that the wealthy can pay less.
Let’s call Herman Cain’s plan what it really is, a tax hike on the 99%.
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Basheert
Oct. 16th, 2011 at 1:10 pm
Can I assume that since Sarah Palin has stated she is no longer running, she gifted her “word salad cloud” to this KochSucker?
This man is a blithering idiot – he’s not campaigning … he’s doing a book tour.
His perception may be his reality, but his little Nein-Nein-Nein plan would literally bankrupt the lower and middle class. If you are wealthy, you can choose whether or not to buy. His illusory “invisible built in taxes” will go away? How?
The fact is, Nein-Nein-Nein is an 18% tax on goods – on top of State Sales Tax and State Income Taxes.
He’s barking well for his KochMasters.
rewinn
Oct. 16th, 2011 at 2:15 pm
Are you assuming that food HAS to be a “new good”?
Maybe Cain is saying people should buy USED food … in other words, “THE 99% SHOULD EAT SH!T!”
Anomaly100
Oct. 16th, 2011 at 4:11 pm
I prefer to eat the rich. They are well fed. Yummy!
Reynardine
Oct. 16th, 2011 at 6:28 pm
Especially the ones that have fed on cream, oysters, brie, and chamagne. You don’t even have to season those, as long as you keep the heat low.
la Zingaro
Oct. 17th, 2011 at 12:04 pm
I want a caviar flavored one! Oh, sorry. Thought you were taking orders. ;)
Anklejive
Oct. 16th, 2011 at 2:16 pm
So these “embedded” taxes will go away, huh? I’m not buying that competition will “make them go away.” Give corporations the opportunity to reduce prices? Yeah, that’s gonna happen (not).
kate
Oct. 17th, 2011 at 11:33 am
Amen. Look at corporations now- can’t trust them to do the right thing. Banks work in collusion to come out with a new credit card fee simultaneously so they’re all in the raping of our citizens together.
buckeyewill
Oct. 16th, 2011 at 2:19 pm
9-9-9:
Soul version of Reganomics.
Will we as a country learn anything????
Shiva (Moderator)
Oct. 16th, 2011 at 2:30 pm
Competition isn’t doing much to lower the prices of pizza.
Cain is no different than the rest. If the Dems cannot get up a good argument showing that the republicans are dead set on the enslavement of the people they represent then we need to start making plans to leave.
Cain tried to hide it, Cantor throws it in our faces
mwaters5
Oct. 17th, 2011 at 10:32 am
$5 pizza is pretty cheap? I am not sure how much lower it can go. Considering that price has stayed their despite inflation. Competition always does a good job of lowering prices.
Free1029
Oct. 18th, 2011 at 11:18 am
Have you checked the prices of autos since the invasion of Honda, Toyota, etc.? Competition resulted in better cars at lower prices. It works if you keep the government out of it.
Shiva (Moderator)
Oct. 18th, 2011 at 1:40 pm
The government had nothing to do with it. The government doesn’t determine the market. Nice try
Anne
Oct. 16th, 2011 at 2:35 pm
All this does is to seal Herman Cain’s fate with me and hopefully, many other Americans. He is one of the ignorant dolts in politics or aspiring to be in politics who are giving ammunition to the Occupy Wall Street protesters and the others they have inspired both nationally and globally. Americans have got to stop getting caught up in gimmicks that have a catchy sound but are at best useless and at worst detrimental to the well-being of everyday Americans.
laingirl
Oct. 16th, 2011 at 3:35 pm
Cain’s example of bread shows he doesn’t know much about the costs of groceries. You can buy a loaf of bread for anywhere from 99 cents to over $3, depending on the type and brand. The same is true of most products, even bottled water. When you listen to Cain, it’s easy to tell he has not spent any time working on his “Plan”. It makes no sense.
Every time I hear him say “999″, I think of Hitler pounding on a table, saying “nein, nein, nein” which doesn’t leave a good image in my mind.
la Zingaro
Oct. 17th, 2011 at 12:04 pm
Bahahaha! nein nein nein! Precious! thanks.
CBarx
Oct. 23rd, 2011 at 12:43 am
Really, the ex CEO of multiple Fortune 500 companies doesn’t understand the cost of groceries???. A guy who was able to turn a company from near bankruptcy to profitablity in less than 2 years doesn’t understand cost? Come on.
majii
Oct. 16th, 2011 at 3:38 pm
“Herb” obviously hasn’t thought too deeply about his 9-9-9 Plan. Since I live in GA, I know he borrowed this little scheme from another RW blowhard, Neil Boortz. Many conservatives here speak about the flat tax as if it’s the answer to all of the nation’s fiscal ills. They like the idea of everyone paying a 9% tax, but few of them really delve beneath the surface of the flat tax scheme to discover that it is a giveaway to the 99 percenters and the corporations. In their minds it seems that because the number 9 is used to cover everything, it’s fair. I hope many of them were watching Cain’s interview with David Gregory today because in a face to face conversation with them, it’s almost impossible to convince them that Cain’s 9-9-9 Plan is not what it seems on the surface.
Takes12know
Oct. 17th, 2011 at 12:58 pm
You mean a giveaway to the 1%… which.of course it is. Sophistry in the service of a reverse Robin Hood scheme.
it's about time
Oct. 16th, 2011 at 3:40 pm
I hate the plan because the idea of adding a national sales tax just seems like yet another tax and more paperwork for small biz
jeremy
Oct. 16th, 2011 at 10:06 pm
it is is based on the fair tax it is simple plus business get to keep .25% of all they collect. While this is not a lot it is infinite better than nothing.
la Zingaro
Oct. 17th, 2011 at 12:06 pm
And does it account for state taxes? 9% plus state taxing could destroy most of this country.
Sandy
Oct. 16th, 2011 at 4:44 pm
I like the buy used example – are the 1% going to order 100 new cars and immediately sell 99 so the 99% can buy used?
Adele Roberson
Oct. 16th, 2011 at 5:36 pm
The Koch Mafia are backing Cain…. so what else is new?
They and others like them are the only ones who will reap all the benefits. Anyone with a fourth grade math education can see this plan as being ridiculous.
I live in Texas and we are already paying a 8.25% sales tax. This silly plan would have me paying 8.25% plus 9% = 17.25 Sales Tax… This would be plus Income. capital gains taxes,dividend taxes, gas taxes… jees….
Cain has said that there would be no taxes on “used goods” This, of course means that food will be taxed .. Everything in your grocery bag would be taxed .We all know this country is really overrun with uneducated and not very bright people….
but, maybe, just this once they will take heed.
So Pizza Cain is the best the GOP has to offer, to be POTUS? Got anybody else?
***********
Yeah,the Rethugs have six or seven others..
One is worse than the other… some line up.
But when you get The Lunatic Fringe running the Rethugs.. we cannot expect anything else.
Actually if things were not so serious one could just go on laughing.. there, in my imagination is the Great, the Marvelous, Bushs Brain, the EVIL Karl Rove…. standing in the shadow of the Lunatic Fringe… you just got to notice this and your day will be brighter.
jeremy
Oct. 16th, 2011 at 10:07 pm
You also pay 18% of your paycheck to the govt in form of social security, income, and medicare. All this will be eliminated.
jds
Oct. 17th, 2011 at 2:00 am
No. No it wouldn’t. You’d still pay 9% (instead of “18,” but a lot of people pay less than 18 – if you had read this article or watched the relevant clip, you’d know that). And this has nothing to do with social security. Go be a Koch shill elsewhere. It’s moronic cretins like you that give Republicans a bad name.
Tom
Oct. 17th, 2011 at 2:04 am
The employee part of the SS & MC payroll tax is only 7.5%. The “Income” part would *not* be eliminated, it would be 9%.
Sean
Oct. 17th, 2011 at 3:14 am
I’m not sure you will pay a 17.25% sales tax. Shouldn’t that be 9% since your current tax of 8.25 is being replaced? Or are they stacked or added and I just don’t get it.?
Sonatina
Oct. 17th, 2011 at 11:15 am
They are stacked…Cain’s 9% sales tax is ADDED TO your existing state’s sales tax.
Free1029
Oct. 18th, 2011 at 11:23 am
That’s true. Cain is talking about a national sales tax, so voters in particular states would still need to hold their state elected officials accountable for their share of government waste. Illinois, for example, is a nightmare.
Free1029
Oct. 18th, 2011 at 11:24 am
Name calling always wins the argument for me. I find those with the most creative way to insult people without logic are always the most intelligent.
Adele Roberson
Oct. 16th, 2011 at 5:57 pm
Aside from the never to be President Herman Cain…..The Myth that is Ronald Reagon has been troubling me. All the accolades from the Republicans these days obscure the fact that the Reagon Legacy is NOT what they say.
I have been around for more years than I care to count. The MYTH that is Ronald Reagon has gone so far into a Fairy Tale that I am at my wits end trying to understand it all. According to the history books
this is what will be printed.
Reagan’s Legacy;
1) Increased the National Debt by 189% ($998 billion to $2.6 trillion)
no one else comes close.
2) Converted millions of highpaying union jobs into low paying nonunion jobs.
3) Cut spending on healthcare leaving exservicemen, disabled people,
and old without any support and left to rot on streets.
4) Doubled the number of poor in the country.
5) Turned the US from the major exporter of manufactured goods in the
world to major importer of manufactured goods.
6) Turned US from a net importer of raw natural resources into a
nation that exported raw natural resources (just like a third-world
country).
7) Funded terrorists and tried to trade arms for hostages.
8) Funded and aided Saddam with his WMD.
9) Reagan encouraged corruption, allowing companies to sell $25 toilet
seats to military for $360 and $8 hammers for $120.
10) Reagan cut income taxes on working class but increased payroll
taxes and mandated contributions to Medicare and Social Security
but did so in such a way that top 1% paid 15% less than they did
before by limiting their deductions on first $61,000 but the
working poorest had theirs increased 15%.
11) Reagan took a staggering 436 vacation days at his ranch in 8 years.
12) Allowed Rupert Murdoch to circumvent the immigration laws to
purchase American media sources.
13) Ignored the impending AIDS epidemic because it mostly affected “Them People”.
14) Encouraged Neo Conservatives and the Religious Right to enter poliics. Which they, of course did, in a huge way. Although this is not a Christian Country and was never deemed to be by the founding fathers.
Jeanna
Oct. 16th, 2011 at 6:42 pm
Great post, Adele! Soooo true what you’ve said about Reagan!
Shiva (Moderator)
Oct. 16th, 2011 at 7:02 pm
Thats a keeper
Free1029
Oct. 18th, 2011 at 11:44 am
Very creative, but a bit disingenuous. I too have lived more years than I care to admit, and I seem to recall that SS and medicare tax deductions were always mandated, for example. Also, if you are going to lay an $8 hammer at his door, then you should know government just paid $16 for each of several muffins at a government meeting. I guess we’ll have to lay that at President Obama’s door? I think you are referring to AFghanistan when you talk about funding terrorists? If so, you know we did indeed arm those who were fighting against the Soviet invasion of that country. No one believed they would become the sad, sick people they became. I have no problem with encouraging Marxists and Neo-Liberals and Muslims or Buddhists to enter American politics. Why would someone object to encouraging conservatives and Christians to enter the American political process?
Tony
Oct. 16th, 2011 at 6:00 pm
Mr. Cain is simply being ignored by people who can not understand the reality of embedded taxes. The so called experts have not taken this into account. The poor and the elderly are already paying taxes by way of inflated prices used to cover the cost of the taxes that the U.S. government currently imposes on businesses and individuals of all walks of life. Once all taxes are fair, then all prices are subject to come down as real profits realized by less government taxes is spread out across the spectrum.
Zookeeper
Oct. 16th, 2011 at 10:32 pm
There is no such thing as a “fair tax,” Tony. It simply does not exist.
The fact is, that you can take away all the embedded taxes on goods, but the consumer would still be paying 9% plus __% state taxes on those goods, whether they make $10K a per year, or $10M per year.
It doesn’t get any more regressive than that.
jds
Oct. 17th, 2011 at 2:02 am
Yeah. Right. So, a company charges $2.20 for a loaf of bread now. Suddenly, they don’t have to pay taxes…so they pass that on to the consumer? No. They charge $2.20. Because that’s what people will pay. So they make more profit that is taxed less, and people end up paying an extra 20 cents on it. When you “remove” taxes, prices don’t go down. Ever.
Mauibrad
Oct. 16th, 2011 at 9:52 pm
Yeah, oligopolic competition for groceries that have ‘sticky prices’ will not result in a lowering of those prices. Those producers and wholesalers will just pocket the larger margins from the lower corporate income taxes and not pass the savings on to the consumer. Cain is either an idiot or just straight up dishonest.
CBarx
Oct. 23rd, 2011 at 12:33 am
No they won’t, especially when you have bargain brands out there. Survival always kicks in, especially in business. With a crappy economy and people wanting to spend less, business are going to cater to those who are buying product. People figure this stuff out after a while too. If the plan works and economics improve, it only makes sense that the cost of producing will go down, and people won’t settle for paying more if they don’t have to, hense “competition drives down prices”.
paul stevens
Oct. 16th, 2011 at 9:53 pm
Too bad the media cannot cover the coup that started in 2008
PalinsDirtyLittleSecret.b...
Sandy
Oct. 17th, 2011 at 9:16 am
So a flat income tax of 9% has no deductions – imagine how many people will be impacted by not getting donations that are tax deductible. Red Cross, Doctors without borders, food banks, meals on wheels…the list is endless. So hit the poorest the hardest with the tax and also end up taking away those non-profit services which could provide crumbs to help them survive…
Matt
Oct. 17th, 2011 at 1:22 pm
What a moron!!!! Finally someone dumber than Bachmann and Palin put together.
Free1029
Oct. 18th, 2011 at 11:26 am
Another well thought, logical and compelling argument.
Peter
Oct. 17th, 2011 at 3:37 pm
Can you imagine how much tax evasion this plan would bring? There might be some good ideas but I think this plan is primarily tailored for a presidential campaign and is unlikely to pass Congress.
Free1029
Oct. 18th, 2011 at 11:30 am
Your point about this plan not passing Congress is well taken. First, if something like this were to pass, I believe great pains would be taken to be certain that those below the poverty line would not be hurt. For example, perhaps the sales tax would only be imposed on single purchases of $10 or $20 thousand. But the practical reason it would be unlikely to pass is that Congress, both Repubs and Dems, is composed largely of individuals whose livelihoods depend on satisfying the wishes of their biggest donors…i.e. corps, big labor, etc. That’s the only reason I can think of that this group of 536 ‘leaders’ can’t pursue true tax reform, or even propose a budget. The country hasn’t had one for years now.
CBarx
Oct. 23rd, 2011 at 12:24 am
I’m not sure about those of you who are talking about the 9-9-9 plan bankrupting the lower and middle class, but I know here in Tennessee I pay a little over 20% in Federal taxes, 9.25 in sales tax, and no state income tax. To me that adds up to 30% or more of my income being taken away anytime I buy goods. Now if my Federal taxes go down to 9%, my sales tax drops from 9.25% to 9%, and my state income tax stays the same (which is no state taxes), to me that adds up to 18% of my income, not 30%. So how is that supposed to take more money from this middle class American? Looks like some of you Cain haters should actually think before you speak.
Conservative Heart
Oct. 23rd, 2011 at 6:52 pm
Look here, Libtards, Cain’s 9-9-9 tax system is very simple, and he even tried to explain to you supposed “intellectual elite,” but clearly, liberals are no good with math and money.
A heavy portion of the tax would only be applied to people who buy new goods. Anyone who buys used goods will not have to pay much in sales tax. Like you know, when you buy a used car, that crazy Fox from Carfax will jump right in and cover the taxes for you. Or when you buy a used house, the “embedded” taxes will suddenly disappear.
Even better, the 99% should just start buying used bread, used butter and used eggs. I mean, nothing beats a used computer from 1983; it’s totally serviceable for the BS crap the 99% needs a computer for. It’s not like they actually do any calculating…
Old people can definitely get by by simply buying used Tylenol and used heart medication. Used cholesterol medication works wonderfully. And hey, used shoes and bedsheets from the salvation army will suffice the 99% just fine.
Let them eat USED cake!
Shiva (Moderator)
Oct. 23rd, 2011 at 7:20 pm
CH, its “Looky here” not look here.
Aaron
Oct. 24th, 2011 at 1:16 pm
Why 9-9-9 and not 10-10-10 or some other number?