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Man Who Killed Florida Teen Over Loud Music Alters His Story to Fit Stand Your Ground
If a person feels they are at risk of becoming endangered, or in a situation where there is an uncertain chance of continued survival, they surely feel threatened. Most reasonably intelligent human beings would flee a threatening environment out of self-preservation and alert authorities to assuage the danger to others and if possible, arrest whatever posed the threat whether it was a raging fire or a vicious animal. Last Friday in Florida, a gun enthusiast claimed he felt threatened by teenagers playing loud music and instead of leaving the terrifying situation, he pulled out a gun and fired eight or nine times into an SUV killing an unarmed African American teenager. The man is expected to mount a “stand your ground” defense according to his defense attorney’s intimations, and they are altering his story to fit the requirement.
The shooter, 45-year-old Michael David Dunn, in Jacksonville for his son’s wedding, decided to stop at a gas station convenience store afterward so his girlfriend could buy a bottle of wine. Dunn parked next to an SUV with 4 teens inside and complained about their music that elicited a verbal response from the teenagers. Dunn pulled out his gun and fired eight or nine shots into the vehicle striking 17-year-old Jordan Davis several times killing him, and then fled the scene after Dunn told his girlfriend he “fired at these kids.” It was not immediately clear if Dunn had a permit to carry a loaded firearm. After arriving at their Jacksonville hotel, they heard on the news that someone died in the shooting prompting them to flee to their Brevard County home. Witnesses to the shooting took down his license plate number which helped police find Dunn’s house where he was then arrested on Saturday.
When he was arrested, Dunn claimed he was going to turn himself in, but it does not explain fleeing the scene, or the county, or why his girlfriend failed to alert law enforcement about the shooting. After his arrest, Dunn told detectives “he felt threatened and that is the reason he took action.” Police in Jacksonville said the teens were unarmed, and Dunn is being held without bail and was transported to a jail in Jacksonville Monday to face murder and attempted murder charges . On Monday he pleaded not guilty in Brevard County court, and his attorney claimed “it will be very clear that Mr. Dunn acted very responsibly and as any responsible firearms owner would have acted under these circumstances.” On Tuesday, his lawyer told a different story and claimed “he acted the way any responsible firearms owner would act in a similar situation because a shotgun was aimed at him,” and that her client was “devastated that anyone was harmed in this instance.” Dunn did not tell police about a shotgun, and it is incredulous that he fired eight or nine shots into an occupied parked car and was devastated anyone was harmed. Police still claim the teens were unarmed, and that they admitted their music was loud, but that the confrontation was a verbal exchange over loud music. Apparently no-one left either vehicle.
A Florida attorney said using a “stand your ground” defense was tricky because “Mr. Dunn is going to have to answer the question, ‘Why did you not call the sheriff’s office? If you are reasonably protecting yourself, why did you leave the scene, get in the car, and the next day, flee the jurisdiction of Duval County?’ There’s no indication that Jordan or anyone else in that car had a gun, there’s no indication that they were any threat to Mr. Dunn.” Maybe the threat to Dunn was that 17-year-old Jordan Davis was African American, or that after just leaving his son’s wedding he was alcohol impaired; police will never know whether alcohol was a factor because they did not locate and arrest him in another county until the following day.
A little over a week before Dunn killed Jordan Davis, a task force created by Florida governor Rick Scott after George Zimmerman shot and kill unarmed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin found the state’s “Stand Your Ground” law is “mostly fine” and recommended only small changes. The task force made their conclusions despite research that shows “Stand Your Ground” laws actually increase homicides. According to a new study by Texas A&M University using police data, Stand Your Ground laws are associated with significant increases in homicides, and that the homicides are classified as murders. Another study from Georgia State University using public health data found passage of Stand Your Ground laws are associated with a significant increase in homicides, and they concluded “these findings raise serious doubts against the argument that Stand Your Ground laws make public safer.” In fact, the Texas A&M study found no evidence Stand Your Ground laws deter crimes like burglary, robbery, and aggravated assault, and instead, the law is used to protect criminals rather than innocent victims.
Researchers at the Urban Institute also found striking racial disparities in how Stand Your Ground laws played out once a defendant claims self-defense. In Stand Your Ground law states, twice as many homicides are justified than in non-stand your ground states, and when white shooters kill black victims, 34% of the homicides are deemed justifiable, but when the shooter is Black and the victim is white, only 3% of deaths are ruled justifiable. The proliferation of stand your ground laws is the gift of the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), and they may help Michael Dunn as a defense for killing another unarmed African American teenager.
There are several differences between Trayvon Martin’s death and the most recent case of an unarmed African American teen’s death and none as important as the number of witnesses. Dunn fled the scene immediately after firing into the vehicle Jordan Davis was sitting, and the county upon learning he had killed the teen. Dunn’s attorney said “He didn’t think he had harmed anybody and he just thought he had scared them off and he wanted to report it, but he didn’t want to throw himself to the wolves in a strange city without representation,” but if he “acted in self-defense” and saw a shotgun, then he had nothing to fear from law enforcement officials. However, it was three days after his arrest that his attorney claimed Dunn acted responsibly after having a shotgun pointed at him. The story is as suspicious as Dunn’s lawyer’s claim he was “devastated anyone was harmed” after firing eight or nine times into an occupied vehicle.
Any death of an innocent victim at the hand of a gun owner is tragic, but this is the second unarmed African American teenager killed under the guise of self-defense by a white man. Residents were shaken after the shooting death of 17-year-old Jordan Davis, and police do not suspect Dunn knew the victim, but it appears he knew the victim was African American. The shooting may not have been racially motivated, and maybe Dunn imbibed a bit much at his son’s wedding, but one thing is perfectly clear; another white man killed another unarmed African American teenager and claimed it was self-defense. Based on his attorney’s allusions, he may claim he was standing his ground after being angered by loud music and threatened by words, and in a “stand your ground” state like Florida, one can only hope he doesn’t get away with it.
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Tiffany Lathrop
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 11:29 am
Thank you NRA. Without all of your tireless efforts to ensure maximum firepower for everyone, we would not be sitting here now reading this story and many more just like it.
jim
Dec. 3rd, 2012 at 8:39 am
you forgot to mention the NRA going around getting states to pass rediculous laws like this one. there has always been self defense laws, but laws like this are not self defense, they allow you to shoot “if you feel threatened” even if you instigated the confrontaion.
Echelon
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 11:37 am
Tragedies such as this leaves you saddened and at a loss for words adequate enough to express the anger, frustration and sadness that you feel inside.
Eight to nine shots is overkill. Makes you think Dunn was trying to hit everyone in the vehicle.
Frank
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 11:18 pm
He had (at least) one more option.
The incident happened at night; had he not done his thinking with a weapon, he could have called the police to report a possible violation of a noise ordinance. Most localities have them.
Or jeez, he could have gone into the store, told his significant other to get a move on, stayed in the store, and then just driven away.
John Smith
Dec. 7th, 2012 at 2:26 pm
And had zimmerman stopped following trayvon martin like the dispatcher told him, trayvon would not be dead
Maranon
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 11:41 am
The racism is unbelieveable!
The xenophobia + guns + ignorance= disaster.
My redneck relatives have armed themselves to the teeth and carry weapons everywhere. We have decided not to stay at their homes anymore, as they are sick with suspicion of breaking and entering while they sleep, and we worry about getting shot if in their slumber believe we are the intruders.
This murder has no excuse. But, the stand your ground laws are gaining popularity among the red states, AZ just passed a version of it at the last election.
Where are the “respect life” people? I bet the GOPer will be with the murderer.
I hope he does not get away with it.
ksbj
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 1:14 pm
“Respect life” people? If you mean the pro-life people, don’t forget, they only care about you while you’re a fetus. Once you’re born, especially if you’re black, they don’t give two sh*ts about you!
46A9MA
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 11:45 am
If I remember correctly, there was another incident earlier this year where a black teenage boy was shot in the store while he was just trying to buy some candy. Looks like things still haven’t really improved ever since the release of that documentary “Bowling for Columbine”, and that was 10 years ago. I don’t know how many “bad guys” actually got killed by “self-defence” using guns so far, but I can’t stand the fact that innocent people get shot so easily like they are nothing.
46A9MA
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 12:09 pm
Sorry for not finishing the whole article before finishing. The Trayvon Martin case is mentioned in the later part.
John Smith
Dec. 7th, 2012 at 2:28 pm
“Boy, these conservatives are really something, aren’t they? They’re all in favor of the unborn. They will do anything for the unborn. But once you’re born, you’re on your own. Pro-life conservatives are obsessed with the fetus from conception to nine months. After that, they don’t want to know about you. They don’t want to hear from you. No nothing. No neonatal care, no day care, no head start, no school lunch, no food stamps, no welfare, no nothing. If you’re preborn, you’re fine; if you’re preschool, you’re f**ked.”
Carlin
Shiva (Moderator)
Dec. 7th, 2012 at 2:41 pm
Its all to fill gods own army with troopers for the coming war against the unbelievers.
Mike
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 11:49 am
When you are packing heat and become confrontational then you are the aggressor.
Reynardine
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 12:17 pm
As originally passed, that law did not apply to the open street. You could plead it if you were in your house, *inside* your car, in your place of business, on your farm, or within the private curtilage of the foregoing. That worked just fine, since I could then go out to hack my hedge with a machete without being obliged to put it down when my decorticated neighbor offered to “beat my ass”. Then the Florida Legislature decided to turn the whole state into a Wild West show.
Richard
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 12:20 pm
If it was stand your ground, why flee the scene, then the county. He didn’t go up the road, to get out of danger if that’s what he felt and called the police. He fled, and still never alerted the authorities. Hopefully the D.A in this case does his job and gets this murderer off the streets.
Kris
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 2:38 pm
I know his lawyer is doing her job, but she needs to stop talking and just do her job. Throwing out mess like she has is NOT helping the situation. She even went so far as to say the teens must have dumped the shotgun elsewhere….are you kidding me?
It wasn’t self defense and never will be and I hope to god the jury doesn’t buy this song and dance BS when/if this goes to trial. If Dunn were a MAN he’d change his plea, apologize and then go do his time.
Societal Address
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 12:21 pm
This is one of the many reasons I am against legal gun ownership. Nothing good can come from a whole nation carrying firearms.
Vinny
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 3:54 pm
Good thing we have a Constitution to protect our rights from people like you.
Shiva (Moderator)
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 3:55 pm
Your’re right. As I said, we just cannot kill enough people daily. Its an outrage
A Walkaway
Dec. 1st, 2012 at 10:56 am
Don’t forget – I live in among a bunch of religious nutcases who think it’s their duty to punish (and/or eliminate) “non-believers”. The people that live around me are the ones that you all fear so much – as I do.
You pass gun control, and I’m dead meat. The goddamned pigs will come to disarm me and won’t touch the “Good Christians” and their cohorts. They already hate my guts because I shot several dogs who were in my yard trying to (or killing) our kitties and threatening us – and the laws stopped them from attacking or punishing me. (I guess Pit Bulls are supposed to have more rights than I do in my own yard.)
(Remember what the sheriff of this county – and his piglets – and the local police are like!)
I live in constant, unending fear of those jackasses. I never know when one of them is going to blow – although so far the explosions are just verbal and threats. (Examples – because I didn’t move my car fast enough at the gas pump or because I had a liberal bumper sticker on my car, or because they found out I’d taught evolution.)
I don’t want to fear the people who have treated me like a human being (unlike the goddamned “Good Christians”). Please remember – disarming will hit the law abiding long before the lawbreakers, and it will be the liberals in many areas who will become easy prey.
fedded-up
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 12:37 pm
This “stand your ground” crap is just plain awful. Even police officers have real problems trying to determine when and where deadly force should be used. This was a recipe for disaster from day one. Probably the only way this stuff is going to be stopped is to have enough clear evidence of racial bias in its usage, i.e., white shooters getting off and black shooters being found guilty in near identical circumstances. Of course, bringing in the whole civil rights thing would incite another firestorm in the south. Good gracious, why can’t these people see that they’re being played to the hilt?
This guy? Bad joke. Pulling out a GUN to defend himself against loud music??? There shouldn’t even be a question of his guilt.
A Walkaway
Dec. 1st, 2012 at 11:06 am
You’ve obviously never had a pig tell you that you’re supposed to retreat and let someone do whatever they wanted in your house, or even to your pets IN your house.
I also suspect you’ve never had someone try to break down the door to get to you, like I have had twice in my life. Once because I walked away from a dominionist church (they split the door frame to my parents home but didn’t succeed in breaking down the door – while yelling at me about not leaving the church), and the other time because the drunk thought we were hiding his girlfriend from him and he was going to “Get” me for it.
The first time, no guns were involved (and I’m damned lucky that those goddamned “Good Christians” didn’t get to me). The second time a loaded pistol backed the drunk down, and he finally got it in his head that I wasn’t going to permit him in our home, and he’d better get his noisy pickup out of our front yard too.
In this county, the “Stand your ground” law backed the pigs off. Before it was passed, people like myself were warned that we were never to defend ourselves unless our own lives were in imminent danger – that we KNEW (and could prove) that the perp was coming at us with a deadly weapon and with the intent to kill. (In fact, I don’t think they’d even allow for protecting family members!)
Rosemarie Benintend
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 12:42 pm
Loud music is an accepted torture device among torturing professionals. For many, especially the elderly, loud music is painful. It can be extremely painful.
WHY is it okay to torture innocent people in public places, or EVEN in their own homes?
I sure don’t agree with murder, but I can REALLY understand why the guy went nuts from it.
TEACH your children NOT to do such mean, thoughtless, aggressive things, rather than let them think they have a right to do ANYTHING. It’s a survival skill, in this world, where people are sick to death of being victimized but such ignorant behavior.
There is NOOOOOO excuse for murder, but a little humanity from the kids would have worked magic on the obviously demented man who shot at them.
js
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 1:07 pm
And don’t wear goddess sweatshirts!…….really?
js
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 1:08 pm
*hooded
Sorry, autocorrect
Shiva (Moderator)
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 1:15 pm
There certainly are two factions here. One the people blame the music and two, the person with a gun. It’s a huge stretch to say that loud music is torturing someone just because professionals do it, but you do have the point that the kids should’ve had the common given sense to freaking understand when someone sends that your music down
I can also tell you when I hear very loud hip hop I feel like getting a gun too. But then again it’s the same feeling I get when I hear bad country music . But, so far I have stifled that desire and I think I would just move to another part of the parking lot
fedded-up
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 4:36 pm
To say that there are two factions in this question puts a false equivalence into it. To equate bad manners and possible invasion of privacy due to the loud music with the use of deadly force seems lop-sided to me.
Sort of like throwing a kid out the window if their room is messy, yaknow?
Or maybe shooting a kid for cheering too loud at a basketball game.
The infractions just don’t come close to the lunacy punishment here.
Shiva (Moderator)
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 4:51 pm
The article said the kids were not the nicest. I maintain there are two factions because the probability is high that no one would have been shot had there been no music. I am not excusing either party, but at the same time I am not comparing one faction to the other.
SickupandFed
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 9:21 pm
I must have missed something. Show me where anything says the kids weren’t nice. Also, while you’re at it, show me where anybody has to be nice to those that aren’t nice.
Absurd comment.
Shiva (Moderator)
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 10:16 pm
“Dunn parked next to an SUV with 4 teens inside and complained about their music that elicited a verbal response from the teenagers.”
I have a feeling they didnt say “Yessa massa”. If they had they wouldnt have gotten shot.
You seem to be assuming that the guy didnt ask nicely. 50-50
paul
Dec. 3rd, 2012 at 9:50 pm
there is even a higher probability that no one would of been shot, if Mr. Dunn hadn’t had a gun. Of if he had decided not to shoot. my god people do rude things all the time. you are telling me you have never done anything rude in public? cut someone off? that is just as annoying to me as a holes that play loud music. people are rude and suck, and they were young so they were especially rude and immature to boot lol! he is the adult. the gun wielding adult!! that whole thing “if they hadnt been playing loud music….” is a immoral thing to say. You find out a friend or loved is killed, someone telling you those words would probably only anger you more. punishment has to fit the crime. he should of called the cops on them, got their plates if he wanted to do something.
MIchelleJ
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 8:19 pm
Really, think about what just happened…this man gets upset because the boys music was too loud….but didn’t he just come from a wedding…what….there wasn’t any loud music played???!!!
Shiva (Moderator)
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 8:58 pm
I dont know, I wasnt able to make the wedding. I think they were buying wine to go to the reception though
I am not letting the guy off here
A Walkaway
Dec. 1st, 2012 at 11:12 am
I hope that people find this funny.
We were running a powwow and this young black man came along with a very loud boom box. He saw us and cranked it up.
One of my young friends in the tribe also had a boom box, and cranked his up – and our traditional music cut right through the other junk. The young (and obviously trying to be offensive) black man took one startled and scared look at us, and then took to his heels.
This is being reported locally that the shooter changed his story to “fit” stand your ground. It’s being abused – I’ve read of several instances where minorities have used a gun in self-defense and not allowed “Stand your ground”, while obvious murderers got away. Differential enforcement – but then, that’s always been a huge problem in this state anyway.
fedded-up
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 1:18 pm
Oh, certainly, Rosemarie, you’re right. How could we be so insensitive as to not see that those kids would drive this man to murder by playing music too loud. Such “mean, thoughtless, aggressive” children surely brought about this deadly assault. Right?
I am so happy I don’t live in Rosemarie land. It sounds like a scary demented sort of place….
Bologna
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 1:21 pm
Wow, you’re really stretching it. Torture? You don’t like the music, go somewhere else.
I bet you also believe that a woman “deserves” getting raped because of the clothes she was wearing.
People need to take responsibility for their own actions. It is up to you to control yourself; you have no right to try to control someone else.
Sorry you feel like such a victim.
RMuse
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 1:37 pm
Rosemarie,
The shooter pulled up next the the teen’s car. He started harassing the kids immediately and was there no more than a couple of minutes. Further, as an audio professional I attest that hearing in the elderly is not nearly as acute as a teenager, in fact, by age 33, most human beings have lost about 30% of their sensitivity, maybe more depending on their exposure to loud sounds. A police siren is about 20 times as loud, and damaging, as the loudest car stereo playing for an hour solid.
The guy did not go nuts because he pulled up and parked next to the car with loud music, he went nuts because the Black teens did not obey his commands to shut it off. One wonders if the kids were playing Toby Keith or Garth Brooks loud if the maniac would have “went nuts.” Further, loud music didn’t make him flee the scene, the county, or change his story and it is doubtful he would have ever turned himself in.
It is interesting that an unarmed African American child is murdered, and now blamed for publicly torturing his murderer. Funny, the eight or nine gunshots didn’t “torture” the shooter’s hearing. BTY, one gun retort is more damaging to auditory nerves than 15 minutes of sustained sound levels of 160 dBs (near the level of a jet engine).
MIchelleJ
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 8:25 pm
It seems that he is not too nice of a person anyway…someone posted this on NY Times article…
www.ripoffreport.com/comp...
A Walkaway
Dec. 1st, 2012 at 11:55 am
They’re still trying to make Trayvon Martin look bad in our paper. “Still haven’t analyzed his cell phone” and so on.
I expect the same here. Maybe the kid was obnoxious, and maybe his music was loud. Shoot, that’s so common that it’s expected (the loud music). There is a couple of white “kids” in our area that you can hear coming a half mile away… their music is that loud in their cars, and we can feel it in the frame of our mobile home at night. I’m surprised that they can hear anything by now.
I’d rather hear “Boom boom boom” than some jackass preacher braying away… and you’ll encounter that too.
(That’s why I have a powerful radio in my car – so I can drown out the music I don’t like.)
NK
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 1:45 pm
Your point about torture falls apart the second you consider that this guy was probably only waiting outside the gas station while his girlfriend was inside buying a bottle of wine. He would probably have only had to endure the music for ten minutes or so. Tops.
And leaving aside the fact that he actually pulled a gun on these kids for being obnoxious (which, I’m sorry, is just what teenagers do; it has nothing to do with their parents “failing to raise their children better”), Dunn’s need to confront them about it at all, rather than just ignore it, like an *adult*, speaks to me of a staggering sense of entitlement. He wasn’t from around there, and the kids were not intentionally antagonizing him; he just felt like he had the right to seize control of the situation, and he took that to a tragic extreme. Which, I’m sure, has nothing to do with the fact that he’s a white middle-aged man who insists on carrying his gun around with him at all times at all. I mean, honestly, the man was at a wedding. A *wedding*. What was he going to do, “defend” himself from drunk party guests if they got too rowdy?
Tracy Lund
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 2:01 pm
Your comment is absurd. This is the nicest thing I can say about it.
SickupandFed
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 9:16 pm
Teach your children not to play their music loud or somebody might shoot them? I know that’s not what you posted. Here, you need to go here.
www.howdumbcanyoube.com
Roz Keith
Dec. 1st, 2012 at 1:04 pm
You are dangerous!
Shiva (Moderator)
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 1:14 pm
So it’s OK to shoot someone over loud music, but then again it’s not OK to shoot someone over loud music. It is OK to shoot someone who’s aiming a shotgun that you when they don’t have a shotgun.
This is all becoming very clear. The Atty. knows he is bucking a stacked deck using the shotgun theory. And even if they did have a shotgun the gentleman should’ve took off posthaste. If you sat there and returned fire the odds are you’re gonna get shot. This is not a responsible gun owner. This is a person looking for someone to kill
A Walkaway
Dec. 1st, 2012 at 12:00 pm
Probably looking for a black someone to kill.
There is a better way to handle it. Most of those kids don’t like old-fashioned rock or anything like that – just crank your radio up a bit and they’ll get the message.
Better yet, if you aren’t stuck (like at a gas pump getting gas and having someone pull up with their radio blaring and insisting on it going while you’re pumping), just ignore them and drive away.
Ronald Edwards
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 1:14 pm
I understand the frustration of having someone playing loud music and not turning it down, but I think picking up a firearm and blasting away at the perpetrators is not the correct response. However much of a (insert nasty word here) person it makes you out to be, you could simply respond with setting off your own car alarm (thereby not giving the people with loud music the satisfaction of “winning”), but this is an escalation game as well.
Perhaps the greatest part of the failure was the parents of the children not teaching their children to respect others. I often wish we had “punish the parents laws” in place for children criminals. Why don’t we ever go after the parents for failing to raise their children better?
Tracy Lund
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 2:07 pm
There is no “however” dude. The only perpetrator in this sad story is the adult ass-hat with a gun, NOT the teenagers acting like teenagers.
Lindsey
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 1:31 pm
I personally can’t stand loud music either but I just grit my teeth and try to ignore it. Or I mutter under my breath about how annoying it is, or I turn up my own music to tune out the other person’s music.
I also personally don’t like guns. This is another example of why people who want to purchase firearms should have to undergo a psych exam. Background checks are not good enough. It would make a lot of people feel more comfortable if we knew that only sane non-psychotic people were being issued personal guns.
Stopthemadness
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 1:31 pm
You got whites killing blacks,
cops killing blacks, and blacks killing blacks..
– 2Pac
Tracy Lund
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 2:02 pm
Sounds an awful lot like genocide.
fedded-up
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 1:34 pm
I feel like I am in Wonderland. There are several comments on here already about ‘criminal children’ and ‘punish the parents’ stuff. What? Did I miss something here? Are we not talking about a white man who murdered an unarmed black child because his music was too loud? Did I miss the part about where these children threatened him in any way? Was there something in there about a long-standing problem between the two sides? Other than being of different races, that is? Did I miss the section that covered the part where the white guy felt ‘threatened’ because the black kid was wearing a hoodie? Has something altered the universe I have always known that said that I and millions of other people were doing something totally NORMAL and EXPECTED of us by playing our stupid music monstrously loud when I and everyone else were teenagers? Did I miss the part that cancelled the ad nauseum jokes about parents carping at their kids about playing their music too loud? WTH is going on here?????
mjh
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 7:10 pm
I feel like I am in Wonderland. There are several comments on here already about ‘criminal children’ and ‘punish the parents’ stuff. What? Did I miss something here?
Fedded-up,
You said you “feel like you’re in Wonderland.”
You’re close — it’s actually “Planet Wingnut.”
It’s a truly strange and magical place, one where
- white or Hispanic men such as Dunn and George Zimmerman can shoot unarmed black teenagers with impunity, merely because they felt “threatened” by them
- the I-580 freeway shooter [Byron Williams], Tucson shooter [Jared Lee Loughner], and Norway shooter [Anders Behring Brevik] can, after being under the influence of rightwing propaganda, go on murderous rampages {yet still be considered “liberals”}
- a failed Senate candidate [Sharron Angle] can advocate “Second Amendment Remedies” as a response to “Harry Reid problems”
- a failed VP candidate/half-term governor [Sarah Palin] can defend a radio talker [Laura Schlessinger], under fire for repeated use of the N-word on the air, with the tweet, “don’t retreat — reload!”
- a state [VA] GOP PAC can pay for a billboard that calls for “armed rebellion” if President Obama wins a second term
- a former Michigan GOP spokesman can “ask” if armed rebellion “is now justified”, after the Supreme Court upheld the Affordable Care Act
In short, it’s a place where logic doesn’t apply . . .
.
Angela Birch
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 11:26 pm
Well Loughner wasn’t a liberal, he shot a liberal. Hwe had become a right wing not. The Norwegion shooter, hardly a liberal he was an ultra right wing white supremist ( Yes even liberal Norway can have right wing nuts).
I do find it interesting that he now remembers a shotgun, one that wasn’t there. The victims didn’t go anywhere after the shooting and the cops searched the car. MAde up imaginary shotgun.
Lynn
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 1:56 pm
I saw this first on Gawker and one commenter there suggested we start raising money for people who want to get safely out of Florida before they too are killed, with some BS “stand your ground” excuse to follow. Of all the states in the country that might secede, maybe it would actually be a good idea of Florida did go away. This is just completely beyond the pale.
Reynardine
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 2:48 pm
No, dammit! I voted blue, the state went blue, and I don’t intend to leave until I, who live twenty miles inland, hear the blue roar of a rising Atlantic from my back stoop. Short of that, the murdering assholes can leave, not me.
A Walkaway
Dec. 1st, 2012 at 12:10 pm
YAY!!!
My sentiments exactly. People insist that I HAVE to move, yet they don’t seem to care the harm such a move would do to us.
Most of our kitties would end up dead – because we couldn’t take them with us (can’t afford to just buy a new home and rentals don’t allow cats for the most part, especially not several) and the SPCA and Humane society in this county KILL cats (Humane society claims to be “no-kill”, but people at the pound say that they regularly get loads of kitties to be “put down” from them).
We love our kitties. They’re “fur persons” to us. (I’m not happy with the comfortable middle-and-upper-class jackasses who’ve dumped pregnant females in our yard. What are we supposed to do, kill kitties -who deserve better- for them?)
We couldn’t afford a rental because we don’t have a regular income (and it’s too low to rent anyway – we couldn’t even afford a one-bedroom efficiency on our income). Because of my health (and being in school), I couldn’t take a “regular job” anyway.
I get tired of people only thinking from their own situation and not considering the situations that others have to tolerate and live with (and there are a lot of people in our boat).
ada NIVEN
Dec. 7th, 2012 at 6:26 pm
Until this happened to those who have no problem with this type of behavior nothing will change their mind.
Tim From LA
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 2:14 pm
Everyone is calling the shooter a gun enthusiast. If the shooter was a black person and the SUV was filled with white kids…
Reynardine
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 2:50 pm
…then it would have been Allen West.
Kelso
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 2:15 pm
Yes loud music is irritating. A car full of any teenagers can be really annoying, and sometimes intimidating. But why have we regressed to SHOOTING people when we are slightly frustrated or irritated? Dunn had to sit next to this car full of teenagers for mere *minutes* while his girlfriend ran into the store.
This whole case is absolutely ridiculous. There is something seriously wrong with anyone who finds this behavior in any way acceptable.
I heard about this story 4 days after it actually took place. I guess the for-profit media has decided that another black kid shot down by white guy for no reason won’t sell as well the second time. Share this story. LOCK THIS GUY UP.
Angela Birch
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 11:29 pm
He didn’t even have to sit next to them. He could have moved his car somewhere else in the area.
Sarahthequitter
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 2:16 pm
Where are the surveillance tapes? Most C-stores have surveillance video…
fedded-up
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 2:25 pm
That is a very good question. I thought the same thing. My guess (and totally a guess) is that (a) they didn’t have one trained on that section of the parking lot; (b) it malfunctioned; or (c) they’ve got the tape and they’re just not talking about it.
galactusx
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 2:22 pm
I hope they nail his hide to the wall and he gets the needle.
Eric in Phoenix, AZ
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 2:30 pm
There is no excuse you can give me that will excuse a middle-aged man for firing eight shots into a car full of unarmed children. I think there is seriously something wrong if you think there is anything OK with that. you KNOW if an African American man had fired into a car full of white children, you NEVER would have defended him.
mathazar
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 3:18 pm
The ‘stand your ground’ law gave him the hubris he could get away with murder.
But it only works if you kill all the witnesses.
AFM
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 3:51 pm
This is nothing more than legalized murder of a youth walking around while black.
Laser Haas
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 5:13 pm
We should all go up and B—- slap our enemies in Florida – and when they come back at us – SYG!
Good way to reduce the population by Red Neck Laws.
Reynardine
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 7:17 pm
Laser, I could any number of times have baited that decorticated neighbor of mine into attacking me on my own land while I was using a machete, a mattock, or a maul, and because I am nearly seventy, my defense would have been quite valid. I don’t do it because I’m not a murderer. Most of us aren’t.
Shiva (Moderator)
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 7:46 pm
You could have pled insanity:)
mjh
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 8:24 pm
Better yet, just say you were “standing your ground.” ;^)>
.
Reynardine
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 11:22 pm
Could I call you as a character witness?…
A Walkaway
Dec. 1st, 2012 at 12:20 pm
If someone tried that on my neighbors, they’d be dead in an instant. I used to have to duck out of sight because if they saw me outside, I’d get a Bible-based (or extremist conservative) rant directed at me across the fence. Telling them “not interested” or “busy” didn’t help (sometimes made things worse).
The only good thing is that a little over 2 years ago, they learned I’d taught evolution, and after getting a several minute (maybe 15?) rant from them (which was rather frightening in itself because they’re proud to be “Young Earth Creationists” and have a pro-militia “take back America for Jesus” type sign in their yard) have only talked with me three times since then. (Every time they acted surprised that I, a liberal, would help them because they had a problem – like a deep fat fryer in their backyard with a volcano of flame out of it and about to catch their home on fire and so on. Their preachers claim we’re murderous monsters who want to take away their religion from them.)
JBeech
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 5:44 pm
Regardless of what this guy had in his mind, I find it insulting for his attorney to say that Dunn did what “any responsible firearm owner would have under the same circumstance”.
As a concealed carrier and an active advocate of 2nd Amendment and self defense rights, I call BS on the lawyer. Do I think that Dunn felt threatened and may have been in reasonable fear of his life? No idea. Haven’t seen any evidence and would really like to see the security camera’s before deciding what the situation was like.
So if I don’t know if he was in reasonable fear for his life, how can I say it bull**** that he did what any reasonable firearm owner would have? Because a reasonable firearm owner would not have been in the confrontation to begin with – at least none that I know.
As a concealed carrier I have a responsibility to de-escalate a situation and extricate myself from a situation if I can. It’s not a legal responsibility, it’s a moral one. I don’t carry to be tough; I carry to defend myself, my friends, and my family – that’s it.
A friend of mine wrote a very good piece on it discussing the mindset of a carrier from his point of view. Before you clump us all together, take a moment to read it:www.easybakegunclub.com/b...
A Walkaway
Dec. 1st, 2012 at 12:27 pm
Good link. I’d feel a lot safer if we had more like that person around here.
loosebowel
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 7:04 pm
Expect to see an uptick in young black men arming themselves. Even those who normally do not carry guns will begin to feel the need to “protect” themselves. Parents of black males already know the risks their children face when they walk out the door of their homes. As if they don’t have enough to be concerned with.
torn apart
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 7:04 pm
The only thing that matters to me is a teen lost his life over nonsense. Why does the race card have to always play a part in ugliness. Put yourself in the place of the victims, victims friends or family. All of this is madness in a mad, mad, mad world.
ThomasW
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 7:32 pm
Kids can me annoying and drive you crazy. Should we just start shooting them. He was angry because they did not obey him. white men expect blacks to obey them. Don’t ever question them. You can spot a racist cop as soon as he approaches you..hey boy
A Walkaway
Dec. 1st, 2012 at 12:30 pm
They don’t even need to open their mouth. You can tell by the way they walk. (They also are that way with American Indians and Latinos, unless they’re very Anglo-looking and aren’t known to be a minority.)
(Been stopped around 25 times since I moved to this hellhole 35 years ago, and over 2/3 of them were bogus.)
Rosemarie Benintend
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 10:04 pm
I’m glad to hear from so many ridiculous reactionaries. I didn’t read them all, but at least it was about two grades above third grade name calling.
I stated very clearly that the two incidents DO NOT EQUATE. Read it again. I said that the man was demented (and I don’t doubt that he may well have been a violent racist).
NOTHING I said indicates that the man had ANY right to kill a child, for being rude.
Wow! YOU’D all be dead.
I was NOT trivializing the cold-blooded murder of a child. I was making a separate point that loud music is extremely offensive. It IS used as an effective torture device BECAUSE it is so obnoxious. Look that up, since you don’t believe me.
And to the one of you brilliant thinkers, who told me to leave if someone else was being offensive in public, you just MADE my point, although you’d never understand how. Ruining every one else’s day/life with constant loud music is WRONG. That doesn’t mean murder is right. Look up syllogisms.
And, if you could read, you’d see that I included one’s HOME as a target of such loud music. Where would you have people live, who cannot live in their own homes, because of the noise?
Call me a racist. Stand in the middle of the street I lived on in Harlem for ten years and say it.
Call me an anti-feminist. Boy, your reactionary little brains are working overtime.
Get somebody who understands what they read to explain my comments to you.
Okay. Now it’s time for you all to click your little “I hate you” buttons. You’re so much cooler than me.
Grow up. And learn to read.
Shiva (Moderator)
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 10:20 pm
Your post is about two grades above third grade name calling.
Rosemarie Benintend
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 10:37 pm
Perhaps I didn’t make it clear that I was addressing the people whose comments were insulting and accusatory. I did not mean to imply that all responses were equally rude. I’m sorry if that wasn’t clear.
Your comments, Shiva, while I don’t agree with every word, were not attacking me. I don’t understand why you went on the attack now.
READ what people are saying to and about me, because they MISREAD my post.
We really could disagree without being insulting. It is my normal policy. When I’m accused of the kinds of things I’ve been accused of here, I respond accordingly.
mjh
Nov. 30th, 2012 at 2:07 am
Your post is about two grades above third grade name calling.
I’d call it about two grades below . . .
.
Reynardine
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 11:30 pm
Chipatall?
I don’t like it either. If it’s in a vehicle, it’s not going to be around long. If it’s downhill of my house, say, I put on some Azeri love songs, Turkish war calls, or Chinese lion dancer music, aim the speakers at them, turn it up, and go have breakfast at the town café. Works like a charm.
A Walkaway
Dec. 1st, 2012 at 12:34 pm
Native American stomp dance music cuts through just about everything, and from the times I’ve driven off boom cars with it, they do NOT like it (usually the person behind the wheel goes from an “I’m in your face and you have to like it!” look to a “HOLY SHIT! What have I gotten myself into?” look).
Pow-wow music also works great.
mjh
Nov. 30th, 2012 at 2:04 am
Ruining every one else’s day/life with constant loud music is WRONG.
EARTH TO ROSEMARIE:
Davis and the other youths didn’t “ruin everyone else’s day/life with constant loud music” — THEY WERE PLAYING IT IN THEIR CAR.
If Dunn had his day/life ruined with their loud music, it was because HE PARKED NEXT TO THEM.
Talk about somebody who needs to learn to read . . .
.
fedded-up
Nov. 30th, 2012 at 12:23 pm
Rosemarie, if 67 people (at present) are telling you that your comment sucks, it might just be that it does. Rather than yelling at the overwhelming majority of people who thought it sucked, you might want to take a moment and reread it.
Because it does. A lot.
I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say you probably didn’t mean it the way it reads. The reading comprehension problem may not lie with 67 other people.
Roz Keith
Dec. 1st, 2012 at 1:35 pm
You blamed the kids their parents and anyone who has ever turned up their favorite song on the radio. My brother works for a large airline,has hearing loss, and blast music just to hear it. Your attempt to justify such a violent response, implies you are a person close to the edge. Seek help.
A Walkaway
Dec. 1st, 2012 at 2:26 pm
Rosemarie, every week the students at my school (especially those in Sociology and some of the other social sciences) get treated to preachers who are often as loud as boom cars. Some even brought portable PA systems to our school (I avoid that area like the plague, but not everyone can and it’s not fun when you don’t have a packed lunch and you’re hungry – they’re right by the sandwich shops on campus).
Do you think that’s OK? (It’s pure irritating noise for most of us – usually insulting because of the language that’s used.) People have complained – “protected free speech!” Even when the jackleg preachers call young ladies whores and sluts to their face because they’re in college and it can be heard in the classrooms.
We also get the “Boom boom boom” late at night around here… often on the next street or the one beyond that.
It’s not fun, but since calling the pigs means that you have to put up with an irate “cop” who is unhappy at having to deal with a noise complaint and considers you to be nothing but a complaining nuisance, it’s something you learn to live with. (It’s worse – as we learned the single time 23 years ago we asked for help with a dog that barked all night – to complain about barking *big* dogs who bark for hours at a time.) You can also learn to live with boom cars, or deal with them in ways that are non-violent.
So, did they (boom cars and dogs) ruin our lives? Nah. Just made things a little uncomfortable – a noisy fan helps. REALLY making things miserable is, for instance, burning garbage all night – which the pigs won’t do anything about even if it gives you a nauseating headache. You learn to live with that too.
We live in Florida. I can tell you that the probability is that the shooter is a racist bigot who wanted an excuse to shoot a black person. That’s common. Many of the people here still resent loosing the civil war.
Ishmael
Nov. 29th, 2012 at 11:25 pm
Lat’s call “Stand your Ground” Laws what they ARE. A license for White people to murder Black people and GET AWAY WITH MURDER.
Reynardine
Nov. 30th, 2012 at 8:42 am
By extending them to the open street, the Florida Legislature turned them into that. As they previously stood (places where you have an expectation of privacy and control) they gave some measure of protection towards people like me, who were otherwise exposed to violence (in my case, from a decorticated neighbor).
A Walkaway
Dec. 1st, 2012 at 12:41 pm
What is interesting is that until the SYG laws were passed, according to the pigs you weren’t allowed to defend yourself unless your life was in danger and you could prove it – the perp had to be coming at you with a deadly weapon.
Of course, the “Castle” laws were around before then, but that’s not what the pigs or their attack attorneys told people (poor people and minorities). We were supposed to retreat and couldn’t defend ourselves unless we couldn’t retreat.
But then, according to the pigs, you couldn’t shoot a dog even if it was in your yard threatening you and preventing you from coming outside. (That was their argument until the animal control officer showed up and read the pigs – 7 or 8 of them, the riot act for threatening me – after I’d shot a pit bull who’d killed my wife’s pet rooster and was trying to kill one of our kitties IN OUR YARD when I shot it. She gave me a copy of the dangerous dog law right in front of them and warned them if they messed with me over defending my family home and animals, they’d be liable for false arrest. Said pit bull and owner had a bad history, BTW.)
Vickie Jackson
Nov. 30th, 2012 at 10:35 am
bs!!!!these “redneck mf’s” think they rule the world n everybody n it!!!they are about to start a blood shed in fla with their kids starring down the barrels of guns!!!dunn is a racist pig who seized the opportunity to take the life of another one of our young “african american” male!!!why wasnt the girlfriend arrested too?????
RealG
Dec. 3rd, 2012 at 1:40 am
White rednecks need to have some fear put into their rotten hearts. I’m so mad, sad, and frustrated that we just sit by and watch our fellow blacks be killed for nothing. This teenager was his mother’s only child. My heart broke for this woman. I wanted to kill that fat,nasty, disgusting, pig face piece of white trash myself. Black people have to stop being so f—king forgiving and get mad and let everybody know that we are mad. I was disappointed to here the teens mom say she didn’t think the shooting was a racially motivated. Come on black people, stop trying to be so f—-king politically correct all the time; stop trying to say what you think white America wants to here. Of course race played a factor in the shooting. Another black teen is dead at the hand of a white man; for no reason(WTF)
candy love
Nov. 30th, 2012 at 11:45 am
This is very serouis, black America really needs to take a long hard look at what really is going on here, it only tells me its ok to kill black men in the streets like dogs that they think we are any way. There isnt much we can do as a people in this country we can only march and talk, but we need to know ourselves as a people are our backs will always be against the wall looking like fools. we have a continent that was given to us by our creator we where stolen from it and its being taken from us, but tell some black Americans about it and your look upon as crazy, leave there ass here leave there stolen land to them and find your selves
RealG
Dec. 3rd, 2012 at 1:25 am
Black men are like dear in the forest, never knowing when they will be taken out for a senseless reason.
If black people don’t start standing together for something, we will continue to be treated as nothing. And yes, racism has become worse since Obama has been in office. White racist are mad because we have a black president and they can’t get to him so they walk around with chips on their shoulder. They pick young black guys/teenagers because they see them as easy prey. I think black people need to form a Black Panthers Action Group. White people are just to comfortable killing black people. Speaking of dogs, when is the last time you saw a dog gunned down in The Street? What does that tell you.
Phoenix
Nov. 30th, 2012 at 6:45 pm
Sounds like racism to me!!!! Another senseless murder #Death Penalty….I hope justice is served for Jordan and Trayvon!!!!!
Anne
Dec. 1st, 2012 at 8:09 am
I am utterly sickened by the gratuitous violence of “men” like George Zimmerman and Michael Dunn, who seem to think being confrontational instigators are a substitute for acting like the adults they are, at least in years. Most of the time, rational and mature behavior involves removing oneself from a potentially explosive situation or simply leaving folks alone and going about one’s own business. The only “self-defense” excuse that holds water is if one is in a dangerous situation, especially at home or work, that he or she did nothing to precipitate.
There was NO excuse in either case to resort to the use of weapons, because nothing these kids did justified their murders. A large share of blame belongs to the NRA, which is always drumming up false alarms about the danger of guns being taken away and being against common sense regulations of weapons. It’s increasingly clear that not having a criminal record is not enough, and that one’s emotional stability should be a critical factor. The anti-black racists who try to defend these indefensible acts are quick to say that young black men are more likely to be murdered by other young black men. They are also likely to twist themselves into pretzels by giving murderers like Dunn and Zimmerman a pass and thinking that the young men they killed should have accommodated them. I hope this stand your ground law will be either abolished or limited to an extremely narrow set of circumstances. Either way, these murders should not be able to use it and should be imprisoned for life.
A Walkaway
Dec. 1st, 2012 at 2:33 pm
Some of the language here on PoliticusUSA suggests it may not be so much of a false alarm, and many of us remember the 70s (and “Guns of Autumn”, “saturday night specials”, “assault weapons”, and all of the other gun-ban nonsense from that era).
There is a better way. Every time I mention it, people seem to ignore it.
Anne
Dec. 1st, 2012 at 3:01 pm
The false alarm they like to raise is that President Obama is trying to take their guns. They love to make gun rights a wedge issue, just like they do with other issues. Actually, gun rights have increased under him. I still say that the “right” to carry weapons goes hand in hand with an enormous responsibility to try avoiding situations that make it necessary to use them. When I think of the Virginia Tech shooter who killed 32 other people, including other fellow students, or of Jared Loughner, there were too many signs of their instability which should not have been overlooked. A number of people would be alive today, or not seriously injured, if they had not been permitted to carry guns.
A Walkaway
Dec. 1st, 2012 at 9:37 pm
True, and I think people would be surprised that the decent, law-abiding owners have no problem with preventing people with dangerous mental illness from having guns (there are laws in place already, and there ARE strong laws against criminals owning guns – but criminals don’t respect the law anyway). The question is how do you catch the dangerous ones without harming innocents in the meantime?
They also try to catch the klan types. (Personally, I think racism is a form of mental illness, especially when it’s to the point of wanting to kill people just because of skin color.) According to a person I knew who taught the CCW course, they don’t want anyone who advocates violence or vigilantism, or who supports hate groups to have such a permit.
As far as President Obama, he IS a constitutional scholar, and I think he knows how wrong any more gun control would be. (Enforcement of the laws on the books… that’s another story.)
Personally, I’d rather see a big campaign to educate people and to try to reduce the roots of violence… starting with income disparity and hopelessness (and more acceptance of the different and better identification of and help for the mentally ill). Plus a big shove to eliminate racism altogether – and there ARE programs which do work.
carrie
Dec. 1st, 2012 at 1:24 pm
I fear for my children and other black mothers when my kids walk out the door more since we reelected Pres. OBama seeing all hate toward him from the rep.teabaggers gop..these racist pigs don’t care about black male..this make me sick.
-
Rosemarie Benintend
Dec. 1st, 2012 at 1:31 pm
It’s easy as pie to find 67 people who can’t understand what they read.
Look above.
I won’t be coming here anymore. I’ll stay where I can continue to have discussions (whether or NOT we all agree) with intelligent, literate people from all over the word, and of every race, without being bullied.
Bullies like you all make me vomit.
That you can’t see the utter rudeness of the comments made to and about me is a testament to your own intelligence.
Now, talk-the-talk liberals, walk-the-walk like I do, and stop bullying me. I’m sure you’re all violently against bullying unless, of course, it’s you doing it.
A Walkaway
Dec. 1st, 2012 at 9:47 pm
How is intolerance shown towards the victims in this case considered “Walking the walk”?
RealG
Dec. 3rd, 2012 at 1:44 am
B what are you talking about?
MeNot Muppet
Dec. 1st, 2012 at 5:40 pm
Just so the author of this article knows: In the state of Florida you do not need a permit to carry a loaded firearm (gun or otherwise) in your vehicle.
Reynardine
Dec. 4th, 2012 at 10:22 pm
No, you never did, but until this last brain fart of the Florida legislature, you had a choice of three ways to carry it without a permit:
1. In your trunk.
2. Uncovered, in your car, with the breach open and the chamber empty, or (if a revolver) with all chambers empty.
3. In your briefcase or glove compartment, which had to be closed in such a way it would take two motions to open it (I carried a snub revolver in a briefcase one of whose three dials was on lock).
Furthermore, it was understood that you were transporting it between your home and your farm, your private boat launch, your business premises, or other place where you had a right superior to the general public to be, and although you could, say, stop at Burger King en route, you could not go on “excursions”. This scheme of things worked pretty well. Then they had to screw it up.
Joydey matlock
Dec. 4th, 2012 at 9:40 pm
I think its so ridiculus this young man died over bs the laws could have been called over this matter and the young man couldve gotten a dtp tickect but instead he got his life taken from a selfish racsist ……m prayers go out to his family :(
Shiva (Moderator)
Dec. 4th, 2012 at 9:55 pm
He wasnt killed over the stand your ground laws, that tact was adopted later after his lawyer thought it would be a good idea
But if he gets off it will be becuase of the laws
Floyd Wilson
Dec. 5th, 2012 at 2:35 pm
As a responsible gun owner I can say I would never get trashed at a wedding, drive drunk, instigate an altercation with a carful of teenagers for being black, or empty a magazine into said car and then flee the county.
He did not act like a responsible gun owner. A responsible gun owner would never carry a weapon while intoxicated.
Price
Dec. 7th, 2012 at 9:18 am
I’m amazed at those who want to complicate this Florida shooting. The black teens in the SUV “either had a shotgun and brandished it towards Mr. Dunn, or they did not”. If there was no shotgun “then stand your ground does not apply”. I’m also puzzled by those who seem to think “you have to flee from thugs and bullies”, that’s exactly why Stand Your Ground came about. We DON’T have to run from those who want to harm us, or our families. The running away is exactly what emboldens these lowlifes. We don’t have these altercations in AZ, the bad guys know that “bullies don’t rule here”….(Mr. Smith and Wesson does….)
Shiva (Moderator)
Dec. 7th, 2012 at 9:32 am
And I’m rather amazed that your knowledge of the story. The first time the gentleman told his story there was no shotgun. The shotgun only came into play once the lawyer decided to use the stand your ground.
And I’m also rather amazed at your thinking that standing there with a gun will protect your family from “thugs and bullies”. You have far more of a chance of getting one of the members of your family killed by standing there thinking your Wyatt Earp that you do retreating. You are not standing up for yourself if someone comes after you and you decide to shoot them out of arrogance. You are putting your life and your families life in your hands.
I’m also amazed that your thinking running away emboldens whatever lowlife you are talking about. That is about as silly as you can get. And as far as not having altercations in Arizona, you might want to come out of the basement and read your daily newspapers. I am not against guns, nor am I against carrying guns. But I’m against people who are so arrogant that they don’t care about their families enough to choose the right decisions
Greg C.
Dec. 8th, 2012 at 1:31 pm
This is such a travesty and clearly a sign that the “Stand Your Ground” law is being exploited by cowardly, racist white males in the state of Florida. Another 1st degree murder case that will defy justice and encourage more white males to shoot and kill more “DEFENSELESS” Black males. That law will be the cause of a huge race-war in this country and the terrorist cells and other anti-American advocates are sitting back waiting for this country to self-destruct from within, and our foolish lawmakers are helping them in more ways than they can ever imagine.
Christian
Dec. 8th, 2012 at 3:35 pm
OMG! this is crazy, Why do I feel like America is going backwards while the other world is way passed the race difference? Hell it’s 2012 NO ONE cares about what color u are anymore!!! Wake Up America!!!!
Kane
Dec. 9th, 2012 at 1:38 pm
Uhm no. I always see little idiot kids like him. I play my music loud, but when I pull into somewhere I TURN IT DOWN. Another thing, he asked them to turn it down and guess what? Since he obviously grew up without manners he insulted Mr. Dunn. A kid should respect their elders not insult them. It’s very annoying when a kid pulls into a store and doesn’t turn there music down especially when they go inside. Maybe he deserved it.
Shiva (Moderator)
Dec. 9th, 2012 at 1:51 pm
Yes for not turning his music down he deserved to be shot 3 times.
Incredible reasoning if you are a cave man
Reynardine
Dec. 9th, 2012 at 2:23 pm
I suspect Mr. Kane is a disciple of the aptly-named Charles Fuqua, who believes disrespectful children should be executed by stoning.
mjh
Dec. 11th, 2012 at 8:59 pm
“Incredible reasoning if you are a cave man
Or a rightwingnut neoKKKon (same difference)
.
gail
Dec. 9th, 2012 at 2:29 pm
This is a free country and if he cant stand loud music he should just move on…he was at a wedding which there was loud music did he shoot the DJ…This is a poor excuse for taking a young man life. I hope he goes to gail and the prisoners there serve him a dose of his own meds!!!!
kevon
Dec. 10th, 2012 at 12:57 pm
i think the man was just trying to get my african american off the street, and mabey he killed him because he looked dangorous but that donst give you the right to kill someone…
fed up
Dec. 10th, 2012 at 7:41 pm
I am truly sorry for the family of the child.
In defense of the shooter yes he could have handled it differently but I too am sick and tired of all this loud music everywhere you go you have to hear this BOOM BOOM BOOM. Everyone has music in some form why should you be subject to hearing someone elses. I was driving in my car and the music was so loud the car behind me that my car was literally shaking. It’s truly ridiculous how loud they play this music now, with no respect for people around them. I live in a complex and every night I have to call the police for someone booming that music and shaking the walls. Yes this is a problem that need to be fixed and I can understand the shooters frustration but killing the kid was unnecessary PS I am black as well.