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How America And The Mainstream Media Got Breitbarted On NDAA
By: Jason Easley and Sarah JonesDec. 18th, 2011more from Jason Easley and Sarah Jones
An edited video of Carl Levin claiming that Obama wanted the language in the NDAA caused outrage among many Americans, but the full Levin video reveals the opposite.
The YouTube video claimed to be proof that Obama is going to sign a citizen imprisonment law:
However, in the first 30 minutes of the debate Sen. Levin stated that the NDAA provisions do not apply to US citizens:
Hours prior to the YouTube proof video Sen. Levin stated on the Senate floor that the Obama administration requested that the provision be changed so that it does not apply to American citizens, but he explained the provision wasn’t changed because it already didn’t apply to American citizens, “The administration officials reviewed the draft language for this provision the day before our markup and recommended additional changes. We were able to accommodate those recommendations, except for the administration request that the provision apply only to detainees who are captured overseas. There is a good reason for that. But even here, the difference is relatively modest, because the provision already excludes all U.S. citizens. It also excludes all lawful residents of the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution. The only covered persons left are those who are illegally in this country or who arrive as tourists or on some other short-term basis, and that is a small remaining category, but an important one, because it includes the terrorists who clandestinely arrive in the United States with the objective of attacking military or other targets here.”
People need to stop believing everything they read from certain pundits and every claim made in a two minute video.
Yes, NDAA was poorly written originally and even after the changes is a crappy bill; it was written in the Senate Armed Services Committee (McCain/Graham- hello), and as such is a nod to Republican authoritarian stances of the Bush administration. It was co-authored by a Democrat, whom many saw in the above shortened video from C-SPAN claiming the President had asked for “this language”.
Of course, the President did not ask for this language, and this is a matter of record, see the November Senate Armed Services Committee mark up of their original NDAA bill referred to by Levin with objections from Obama:
The new bill would also clarify a number of provisions addressing detainee matters in an effort to address concerns raised by the Administration and others. As requested by the Administration, the new bill would clarify that the section providing detention authority does not expand the existing authority to detain under the Authorization for Use of Military Force Force and make Guantanamo- related restrictions one-year requirements instead of permanent restrictions.
The new bill would also modify a provision requiring military custody of al Qaeda members who attack the United States (subject to a national security waiver) to clarify the President’s authority to decide who makes determinations of coverage, how they are made, and when they are made. As modified, the provision makes it clear that these determinations will not interfere with any ongoing law enforcement operations or interrogations. Under the modified provision, the Executive Branch has the flexibility to keep a covered detainee in civilian custody pursuant to a national security determination, or to transfer a military detainee for trial in the civilian courts. The Administration agreed to have military custody apply to al Qaeda members captured outside the United States (subject to a national security waiver) but disagrees with the committee decision not to preclude the application of the provision inside the United States.
You might be wondering why the video was edited to lead you to believe that he did. That’s a great question.
You might also be asking yourself if the same people who were so willing to believe the author of the bill, Carl Levin, will be as willing to believe Levin’s full statement, in which he clearly says that the President did not want this language.
Had Obama not objected to the language, we would be stuck with the original bill since 83 senators voted yes on the original bill which also passed through the Senate Armed Services Committee unanimously.
People should be asking themselves about the agenda behind not holding the authors of the bill and indeed the Senate accountable for the language in this bill, as it is the same Senate who refused to fund Obama’s executive order to close Gitmo. We note their attempt to run an end-game around Obama’s push for civilian courts and their attempt to slide in permanent changes to restrictions regarding Gitmo. The President objected to those permanent changes.
One would think that anyone who cared about the issue of closing Gitmo would be up in arms at the Senators’ attempt to use a funding bill to get around Obama’s attempts to get around their refusal to fund the closure of Gitmo.
We are in no way defending NDAA. However, the language was changed, and when taken in total (instead of parsed), courtesy of Mother Jones:
It does not, contrary to what many media outlets have reported, authorize the president to indefinitely detain without trial an American citizen suspected of terrorism who is captured in the US. A last minute compromise amendment adopted in the Senate, whose language was retained in the final bill, leaves it up to the courts to decide if the president has that power, should a future president try to exercise it. But if a future president does try to assert the authority to detain an American citizen without charge or trial, it won’t be based on the authority in this bill….
The language in the bill that relates to the detention authority as far as US citizens and permanent residents are concerned is, “Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States, or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States.”
The bill is still rotten. It takes us in the wrong direction, moving us toward the militarization rather than the civilian courts this President and the majority of the American people desire. The bill represents the Republican approach to national security; one that the American people soundly rejected in 2008. Luckily the President got the language changed, because even if he chose to veto it, it would be for naught, as the Senate had 83 votes for it and it takes only 67 to override a Presidential veto.
In the House the first NDAA vote was 322-96. The final vote was 283-136 with 43 Republicans voting no. If Obama would have vetoed and 35 of those 43 Republicans flipped to yes, the House would have had the votes to override a presidential veto.
The real focus should be on why this bill was written in this way in the first place, when we the people were very clear about wanting civilian trials, and this president has been clear about his desire to close Gitmo.
In the meantime, we urge you to watch the entire C-SPAN video of Levin, lest we all be Breitbarted, because it matters that we are all clear on exactly who is trying to take our country in the wrong direction.
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Nancy
Dec. 18th, 2011 at 7:08 pm
Thank you ..
I must have posted that this doesn’t apply to US citizens 100 times .. Nobody believed me … They were off bashing Obama and giving steam to Newt and Co. Much thanks Sarah and Jason! Reporting I can actually count on, and look forward too!
Leah L Burton
Dec. 18th, 2011 at 9:55 pm
I enthusiastically second what you said here Nancy!
Carrie
Dec. 18th, 2011 at 10:06 pm
Me three! Already see the angry people running awT after trying to discredit this I am so sick of angry people who believe every lie based on nothing and then scream at everyone who tells them the truth
crystalwolfakacaligrl
Dec. 18th, 2011 at 11:20 pm
What she said!!!
Say No to Corporate America
Dec. 19th, 2011 at 2:05 am
And from the horses mouth,
‘Obama Announces Detaining Americans for Future Crimes that Have Not Been Committed.’,
www.youtube.com/watch?fea...
Obama’s preventative prolonged detention speech back in 2009. It really is quite telling. The whole thing is absurd but this part really gets me, Obama Says -
“In our Constitutional system, prolonged detention should not be the decision of any one man. If and when we determine that the United States must hold individuals to keep them from carrying out an act of war, we will do so within a system that involves judicial and congressional oversight. So going forward, my administration will work with Congress to develop an appropriate legal regime so that our efforts are consistent with our values and our Constitution”–
First of all, prolonged detention could never fit in to OUR Constitutional system, especially preventative. Any kind of “legal regime” that is “appropriate” for prolonged detention is more appropriate for a totalitarian regime. It seems clear to me that indefinite detention is something Obama has long wanted and citizen imprisonment in NDAA is the latest effort to make it part of his ‘legal regime’… albeit UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!!
WAKE UP
WAKE UP>>
The US Army Now Offers A Prison Guard Specialty Securing ‘Civilian Detainees’
articles.businessinsider....
US Army – Careers & Jobs
Internment / Resettlement Specialist
www.goarmy.com/careers-an...
OCCUPY WALL STREET, A PEACEFUL PEOPLE’S MOVEMENT WAS LABELED A “TERROR THREAT’, COINCIDENCE?????
It’s a Rude Wake Up Call America,
Your Allotted Amount of Freedom has Expired!
saynotocorporateamerica.b...
Say No to Corporate America
Dec. 19th, 2011 at 4:04 am
P.S. Do not even suggest people against Obama are for the Newt GOP side of Uniparty Inc. Candidates like Palin, Bachman, Perry and Newt is there to distract, divide [and conquer] and to make Obama look less evil, but less evil is guess what, more effective evil because people accept the SAME policy from Obama they would have NEVER stood for from Dubbya. WHY?!!?
Dems like Obama are Dems in name ONLY! 99% of DC is Uniparty Inc, and Obama told YOU to swim in and eat poison when he gave his personal assurance the POISONED Gulf of Mexico is safe, IT IS NOT!!! IT IS DYING and SO ARE THE PEOPLE!!
see ‘The Big Fix’ and LOOK AT THE FACTS the corporate owned media DOES NOT tell!
saynotocorporateamerica.b...
If you don’t know what NDAA is about, LEARN!
Closing of America is REAL, Orwell’s 1984 meets Germany 1933,
Watch Naomi Wolf’s video on the book or READ “The End of America – Letter of Warning to a Young Patriot”
WAKE UP! Peace
H Squared
Dec. 19th, 2011 at 9:41 am
You READ THE BILL!!!!!!!
(b) APPLICABILITY TO UNITED STATES CITIZENS AND LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS.—
(1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS.—The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.
(2) LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS.—The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States.
Marianna
Dec. 19th, 2011 at 10:21 am
Key word REQUIREMENT.
alana
Dec. 31st, 2011 at 10:35 pm
if you notice in the youtube vid in question there is a different man sitting beside Levin than in the portion politicus wants everyone to see that took place earlier in the day, morning, specifically.
POLITICUS..SHOW PROOF OF THE EXACT PORTION IN QUESTION TO DISPUTE THE SAME PORTION YOU CLAIM IS EDITED.
Shiva (Moderator)
Dec. 31st, 2011 at 10:45 pm
“Hours prior to the YouTube proof video Sen. Levin stated on the Senate floor that the Obama administration requested that the provision be changed so that it does not apply to American citizens, ”
You cant read can you? Move along
alana
Jan. 1st, 2012 at 1:10 am
show proof of the edited vid in question!! i can read perfectly fine and i’m very smart and noticed right away that this site wants viewers to see a certain portion of the cspan broadcast that day, blocking off access to the rest. the portion in question was from a later time of day, around 11:40 pt. according to this site, politicus says that the vid was edited by some spammer and that levin did not state obama requested u.s. citizens be included in the indef detainment provision. depending on the timing of when obama first requested the language be changed or excluded from the bill that precluded american citizens from indef detention w/out due process and when he may have retracted and backtracked on that request. at any rate, if politicus is going to claim that something was misleading, edited, to state something that was not stated, they need to show the portion that proves them correct. they did not do that.
it’s okay because i figured out what portion of the vid (no thanks to this site who blocked the entire vid from being viewed,(very suspicious) was the one in question, knowing that there is a different man sitting beside levin in the vid, it obviously was not shown to compare if editing did occur so i went to the cspan site after figuring out the timeline , viewed the actual vid, was able to forward to the portion that was in question and levin did in fact state what the supposed edited spam vid showed. us smart folks don’t fall so easily for the propaganda tactics because we’re not duped about obama.
trying to shut me up by feeding me some out of context statement to pass as proof is not proof!!
Sarah Jones
Jan. 1st, 2012 at 2:24 am
You need to relax. You are not helpless here. You are perfectly capable of running on over to C-SPAN and finding and watching the 11 and half hour video for yourself if you don’t trust the video linked to here. You can also follow the many links provided which take you to the PDF of the original NDAA doc including the Obama admin’s objections to the language. Why haven’t you done that?
Here’s a hint for you: the entire video, including transcript, are available on C-SPAN and in that transcript you will see what Levin is referring to. Hint #2: Levin wrote the bill. He is not accusing Obama of wanting the language, he is discussing how the Obama admin wanted the language changed and Levin is defending the bill. Hint #3: You are obviously not as smart as you think you are, or you would have sorted this out by now on your own. It is a matter of public record, your paranoia and feelings not withstanding. You may chose to ignore them at your own peril; it is not hurting any of us. We are not invested in your willingness to be duped by spammers.
Now, stop typing in all caps. Screaming will get you nowhere here.
DTS
Dec. 19th, 2011 at 12:40 pm
It DOES apply to U.S. citizens. You, and this article, are wrong. You are misreading it. The section says only that the president is not REQUIRED to detain citizen – an earlier portion says he MAY detain ANYONE. So, in sum, he has the OPTION to detain U.S. citizens – THAT is the problem here. Further, the section saying it doesn’t add any new powers is because the drafters think he ALREADY has the power to do this, due to other policies. That may be, but it means this most certainly is yet another policy that says the president may detain those captured indefinitely – ANYONE, including U.S. citizens on U.S. soil (although, as those who deny it narrowly quote – he is not REQUIRED to detain citizens). The law also declares the U.S. a battlefield, which carries a number of other rights-breaking consequences.
PLEASE STOP MISLEADING PEOPLE – This legislation states the president may detain U.S. citizens indefinitely, without access to a lawyer, a trial, or the entire judicial branch. That is a FACT.
Oldsun
Dec. 19th, 2011 at 10:04 pm
NO it is not! Now craw back to your troll hole.
Say No to Corporate America
Dec. 22nd, 2011 at 3:16 am
YES HE CAN! This article is SO VERY WRONG!!!
I know this is confusing people, but the key word is ‘requirement’… doesn’t mean they can not detain US citizens… just that they are not “required to detain” US citizens!!!
THEY HAVE BEFORE and at this point, EXISTING LAW says, YES HE CAN (Obama should have clarified that slogan).
- Hsquared is confused by this:
(b) APPLICABILITY TO UNITED STATES CITIZENS AND LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS.—
(1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS.—The *requirement* to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.
NOTE *** Key Word – REQUIREMENT!*** doesn’t mean they can’t
THIS MEANS THEY CAN:
[amendment 1456] Authorities-
Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities,
***Key words “EXISTING LAW”***
To the question on “EXISTING LAW” Look at the existing law, the case of Jose Padilla, a US citizen, captured in US, held for almost 4 years by military WITHOUT charge, after gov said he was an enemy combatant.
Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals:
p.6 “We conclude that the President does possess authority pursuant to the Authorization for Use of Military Force Joint Resolution enacted by Congress in the wake of the attacks on the United States of September, 11, 2001. Accordingly, the judgment of the district court is reversed.”
KEY WORDS ‘the President DOES POSSESS AUTHORITY…
NOTE the key words by the district court opinion that was “reversed”… “IS IN VIOLATION OF THE CONSTITUTION AND THE LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES”
p.8 “The district court subsequently held that the President lacks the authority to detain Padilla, id. at 180-81, that Padilla’s detention is in violation of the Constitution and laws of the United States, id., and that Padilla therefore must either be criminally charged or released.”
PADILLA CASE IS THE “EXISTING LAW”
THE PROPAGANDA IS POURED ON THICK WITH THIS, ANY DOUBT, CONSIDER THE FACT SENATORS INTRODUCED “THE DUE PROCESS GUARANTEE ACT OF 2011″ AFTER THEY PASSED NDAA 2012… BECAUSE THERE IS NO DUE PROCESS FOR AMERICANS IN AMERICA!!!!!!!
Don’t just take my word, READ THE BILL and READ THE EXISTING LAW, the Padilla opinion by Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals! See more:
saynotocorporateamerica.b...
Churchlady
Dec. 19th, 2011 at 11:55 pm
You are absolutely WRONG – you are not reading the bill or are a Fifth Columnist deliberately misrepresenting the information. It FORBIDS application of these provisos to US Citizens or resident aliens. If you can’t read, don’t write. It is in the FINAL version of the bill, and if you continue to assert falsehoods, we will have no alternative but to consider that you’re a RW plant or a gullible fool.
babaooey430
Dec. 21st, 2011 at 6:27 pm
“No now crawl back to your troll hole”… thats it really? You can read the bill or watch 15 hours of edited video of all the guys who voted yes for it anyways spin it 15 different directions. Its in ink… read it.
Say No to Corporate America
Dec. 22nd, 2011 at 3:24 am
Churchlady,
PROVE IT. WHERE IS IT FORBIDDEN?????
Where is your PROOF!
NOT YOUR OPINION, NOT VIDEO,
PROVE IT WITH THE LAW!!!
Do not try to say this,
“the “requirement” to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.”
*** Key Word – REQUIREMENT!*** doesn’t mean they can’t!
Read the amendment on Authorities-
“Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities,”
***Key words “EXISTING LAW”***
Hint, that’s the case of Jose Padilla, a US citizen, captured in US, held for almost 4 years by military WITHOUT charge, after gov said he was an enemy combatant. Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals
saynotocorporateamerica.b...
Jane
Dec. 18th, 2011 at 7:30 pm
The people who are worried about this bill may not be knowledgeable enuff to know what “Breitbarted” means. Maybe you could just say “conned” or “screwed” or better yet, what you mean.
Shiva (Moderator)
Dec. 18th, 2011 at 7:35 pm
They meant breitbarted. Screwed, conned, you know the drill
Matt Osborne
Dec. 18th, 2011 at 9:02 pm
How about “attacked with fake noise by charlatains, fabricators, liars, and falsifiers”?
Shiva (Moderator)
Dec. 18th, 2011 at 9:32 pm
I’m in
Churchlady
Dec. 19th, 2011 at 11:59 pm
You all here need to know the term “Fifth Column” from the false allies within the democratic resistance against Franco in the Spanish Civil War of the 1930s. The Fifth Column were people supposedly ALSO anti-Franco but in fact fascist supporters of Franco and worse. MAny posing as progressives today have Fifth Column tendencies and loyalties. Check out your sources before you believe anything. Oh – and learn to read bills please? Yeah – boring as hell, but absolutely essential.
If you can’t stand for something, you will fall for anything. American progressives USED to be smart and well read. Now they’re just gullible and smart mouthed. They give aid and comfort to the Right even while thinking they’re doing something good. They are NOT.
Say No to Corporate America
Dec. 22nd, 2011 at 3:47 am
READ NDAA 2012, READ the LAW, That is what they do in the legal system.
Video is just words, but a telling thing it can be!
NOW HEAR THIS and deny it if you can,
‘Obama Proposes New Law: ‘Prevention Detention’ = “Lock ‘Em Up & Toss The Key, w/o Trial”‘ – www.youtube.com/watch?
This part really gets me, Obama Says -
“In our Constitutional system, prolonged detention should not be the decision of any one man. If and when we determine that the United States must hold individuals to keep them from carrying out an act of war, we will do so within a system that involves judicial and congressional oversight. So going forward, my administration will work with Congress to develop an appropriate legal regime so that our efforts are consistent with our values and our Constitution”–
Obama’s “prolonged detention” could NEVER fit in to OUR Constitutional system… it is UNCONSTITUTIONAL, period. Any kind of “legal regime” that is “appropriate” for prolonged detention is more appropriate for a totalitarian regime. It makes no difference in editing because those 3 sentences are quite telling. That speech was 2009, so it’s been in the works for a while, dontcha think?
As for NDAA 2012, it is UNCONSTITUTIONAL because “EXISTING LAW” is too. If anyone can prove otherwise, please do, with LAW, not opinion, not video. Wake up! Peace
Matt Osborne
Dec. 18th, 2011 at 9:00 pm
Given that I still get glassy eyes and blank stares when I try explaining to white progressives why the high-tech lynching of ACORN is a big deal, I’d say that anyone who doesn’t know what the word means is just being deliberately thick.
Churchlady
Dec. 20th, 2011 at 12:00 am
How sad, Matt. What happened to ACORN was one of the most despicable acts of racist terrorism in our nation’s current history. Thank you for keeping up the drumbeat of truth.
Reynardine
Dec. 18th, 2011 at 7:53 pm
The fact that such legislation is being forwarded leads me to believe that Republicans think their control of the executive is imminent. I wonder what kind of backup plans they have in case the voters don’t agree.
Churchlady
Dec. 20th, 2011 at 12:03 am
Sigh. The GOP FAILED to get their version passed. Yes they tried. No they did not succeed. Civil rights prevailed, and yes they want to do away with the Bill of Rights (save for themselves) but it’s not on, not now. Want to prevent that from happening? VOTE DEM and stop thinking there’s an alternative. MORE Dems and getting the houses both under real control is essential to prevent the loss of our freedoms at the hands of the 1% shills.
Ray Medeiros
Dec. 18th, 2011 at 9:01 pm
This is one the best written pieces on this subject so far. Great job Jason and Sarah!
Say No to Corporate America
Dec. 19th, 2011 at 4:28 am
Hold on! To the question on “EXISTING LAW” in NDAA amendment 1456, Jose Padilla, a US citizen, captured in US, held for almost 4 years by military without charge, Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals:
p.6 “We conclude that the President does possess authority pursuant to the Authorization for Use of Military Force Joint Resolution enacted by Congress in the wake of the attacks on the United States of September, 11, 2001. Accordingly, the judgment of the district court is reversed.”
p.8 “The district court subsequently held that the President lacks the authority to detain Padilla, id. at 180-81, that Padilla’s detention is in violation of the Constitution and laws of the United States, id., and that Padilla therefore must either be criminally charged or released.”
- docs.google.com/viewer?a=...
Churchlady
Dec. 20th, 2011 at 12:07 am
Sigh again. This administration HAD TO CARRY the legal cases already in play from the previous administration. They did that to get FAST and CERTAIN rulings from the courts. They did NOT appeal said rulings meaning that the Bush doctrine on indefinite detentions, on torture, and on any number of other issues WAS KILLED AND STAYS DEAD. Those who think pursuing the case in the existing language violates some kind of intellectual purity are idiots – getting the courts to strike DOWN the Bush doctrine and FAST was always the goal. You can tell what the Obama DOJ and solicitor general want in their REFUSAL to APPEAL those rulings – Obama wanted the Bush doctrines GONE, and they are GONE. The Padilla case was one of the main verdicts. Obama agrees – the president has no right to indefinite detention. S. 1867 embodies precisely that issue – no thing such as indefinite detention is IN the DDA bill.
CH
Dec. 22nd, 2011 at 1:56 pm
I think you misread the above comment. The Padilla cases were decided years before Obama took office. The most important decisions took place in 2005 (US Appeals Court Fourth Circuit, Virginia, ruling that the President has authority under the Authorization on the Use of Military Force (AUMF) to designate American citizens captured on American soil “enemy combatants” and detain them without charge or limitation) and 2006, when the Supreme Court declined to hear Padilla’s appeal against that authority, thus making the Fourth Circuit decision the highest court ruling to date, and thus the law of the land.
To sum: nobody is saying the NDAA specifically authorizes indefinite detention of American citizens. What it does is explicitly NOT alter existing authority, which, as of right now and since 2005, has been decided by the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals to include such indefinite detention.
LT
Dec. 18th, 2011 at 9:10 pm
“Yes, NDAA was poorly written originally and even after the changes is a crappy bill…”
“The bill is still rotten….”
But more importantly – someone (someone bizarrely not actually linked to) was mean to Obama.
Shiva (Moderator)
Dec. 18th, 2011 at 9:27 pm
I do not like the constant and ever increasing militarization of this country.
Not to mention that this entire terrorism thing is highly overblown. If it was as real as these idiots say, we would be making this country tighter than a sphincter instead of wandering around overseas.
Churchlady
Dec. 20th, 2011 at 12:10 am
This is the kind of “I don’t like…” whine that is sophomoric. The DDA REDUCES the militarization of this nation, reverses the trends that grew under Bush, and assures primacy of civilian authority and civil rights.
So you may “not like” something – but find out, please, if it’s even an ISSUE before you spout off? What you like or don’t like is secondary to what is fact.
joe
Dec. 18th, 2011 at 9:48 pm
Again this does not change the fact that other language states differently ..Again many other Mass amounts of EXPERTS in LAW are saying YES it does include U.S citizens ..Stop stirring the pot …Or keep the left fighting and chase people on the fence that are NOT fully liberal to the other side..The left can not afford to lose one single vote…
Churchlady
Dec. 20th, 2011 at 12:13 am
Who are the “experts”? ACLU? Every single thing they spouted off on Rachel Maddow was true of the first version not the final version. I’ve never been so disappointed in an organization for a lack of clarity and simple reading of the law. If you are going to assert something, please ID YOUR sources? And then read the damned thing – S. 1867 can be found in its entirety at thomas.loc.gov. Enter the bill NUMBER and look at the TEXT. You particularly want sections 1031, 1032, 1033, and 1034. WARNING::::You MUST HAVE THE MOST RECENT VERSION since the same bill can have many predicates. If you’re not reading the FINAL version passed by the Senate this December, you’re reading a WRONG version.
Ann Elizabeth
Dec. 18th, 2011 at 9:50 pm
Thanks for the explanation.
Sonya Lee
Dec. 18th, 2011 at 10:00 pm
Respectfully, you are a bit behind on this. I don’t doubt that the President is not for indefinite detention of citizens. But there is a problem with that bill, and it will be signed into law. If there was not a problem with the language, then why would there be a scramble to fix it? Please read. coloradoindependent.com/1...
Shiva (Moderator)
Dec. 18th, 2011 at 10:15 pm
It looks like it has somewhat bipartisan support. No American under any circumstances should lose any of his legal rights. Terrorism or not
Sarah Jones
Dec. 18th, 2011 at 10:24 pm
Way to miss the point. Not only did we say we had problems with this bill, and that is is crappy and bad, but it’s like you didn’t even read this article at all – not even the first or last sentence. Video? Senate? Gitmo? Bad direction? Ringing any bells?
Sonya Lee
Dec. 18th, 2011 at 10:27 pm
Right. I’m just saying, this is late breaking news and it deserves proper reporting rather than sowing discord over Obama’s motives. I don’t think lawyers and people who understand the law and who had concerns deserve to be castigated as “Breitbarted”. The concerns are very real.
Sarah Jones
Dec. 18th, 2011 at 10:36 pm
I understand that you are upset by the bill, but please do not allow that to mean that we should not report accurately on who is behind it.
(this comment was edited based on your amendment to your comment below)
Bill Lenner
Dec. 19th, 2011 at 12:03 am
Sonya. I’ve been studying over this weekend what went wrong. The Feinstein fix that Senator Udall signed on to was just one last try to get the language to protect American citizens. They would change the language and the lawyers would tell them they weren’t there yet, apparently. Lawfare evaluated new changes in the law and were kinda convinced the Senators were reading their blog as they shot down different uses of punctuation, but I’m guessing the Senate has it’s own lawyers advising. And this last fix seems to have the proper language. I’m convinced that Obama has been pushing for the proper language to safeguard citizens (and legal permanent residents) from future GOP presidents.
Good find on the Colorado piece, but there was so much effort before it came to writing the new legislation to get the guarantees airtight.
We wrote a piece and placed it on our blog about all this.
moredotcommonsense.blogsp...
Say No to Corporate America
Dec. 19th, 2011 at 12:27 pm
Thank you for this Sonya Lee! I won’t be relieved until the ‘Due Process Guarantee Act of 2011′ is passed but it is good news to see this.
Before the final vote on NDAA 2012, Senator Udall said “If we start labeling our citizens as enemies of the United States without any due process, I think we will have done serious damage”… and then he voted for it. Serious damage indeed!
NDAA as it is, does indeed give the President the authority to order indefinite military detention of US citizen picked up on US soil. It is unconstitutional and against US law, but was upheld by Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals, that is the “existing law”. There has been so much debate but the amendment actually validates citizen imprisonment without due process. I’ve said all along, there should be no hesitation from Congress to insert clear language regarding the exclusion of US citizens for military detention, indefinite or otherwise. That is their job! The fact it has come to the need for ‘Due Process Guarantee Act’ should be a big red flag and serious wake up call to the sleeping People.
To Every American, PLEASE call and write your representatives, remind them who they work for. Only a traitor would not vote to guarantee Due Process for Americans in America! Occupy OUR Bill of Rights!
‘Your Allotted Amount of Freedom Has Expired!’
saynotocorporateamerica.b...
Churchlady
Dec. 20th, 2011 at 12:19 am
OK let’s try this again – the first version was horrible. Udall and Dianne Feinstein intervened along with others to UNDO what the GOP tried to get passed, and UDALL AND FEINSTEIN AND OTHERS SUCCEEDED in passing amendments to the DDA that preserved civil liberties and upheld Supreme Court decisions (PAdilla above). IT IS NOW FIXED. IT IS NOW A BILL THAT UPHOLDS CIVIL LIBERTIES. Too many of the pundits including the ACLU were arguing from the EARLIER version that DID NOT PASS. That’s ridiculous. It is dead. The final version is decent and upholds rights. That happened AFTER this article was written. Catch up here!
David Branan
Dec. 18th, 2011 at 10:03 pm
As a simple click on “Watch on YouTube’ would have revealed, here is the link, LT:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=V...
The “someone” is someone called Mary Greely on YouTube.
Sonya Lee
Dec. 18th, 2011 at 10:11 pm
To amend my last comment: I doubt the President is FOR indefinite detention of citizens. Sorry. But do read the link. There is a bill to fix the language. And in the meantime, that bill IS going through and we should be concerned. Thank you.
Churchlady
Dec. 20th, 2011 at 12:20 am
The bill passed AFTER it was fixed. Catch up please. The amendments to guarantee rights all were successful, and the damage was totally prevented.
Blue Gal
Dec. 18th, 2011 at 10:31 pm
Oh no. I think the least we can do for all Andrew Breitbart has done for our republic is turn his name into a verb. I encourage use of “breitbarting” – specifically, editing video to change the meaning of the speaker in order to discredit, libel, or in some other way destroy the reputation and possibly cause vocational harm to one’s political enemies.
Puck T. Smith
Dec. 18th, 2011 at 11:35 pm
Has anyone posting here actually read the bill?
Marianna
Dec. 19th, 2011 at 10:20 am
That’s what I’m wondering. It doesn’t seem like it.
Churchlady
Dec. 20th, 2011 at 12:25 am
Yes. S. 1867 with particular attention to Sections 1031, 1032, 1033, and 1034 in the final, engrossed version that had been successfully amended. You can access it at thomas.loc.gov – enter the bill number (and check the “bill number” box) then go to the TEXT. You can also look at all the congressional actions including every single amendment. You will find that Section 1032 was amended by Sen. Feinstein to GUARANTEE protection of US citizens from any kind of military or surveillance powers. Her amendment passed 99-1, the hold out being Sen. Kyl of AZ (surprise!)
If you read earlier versions (and they have the same bill number but never were passed by the Senate) you will get a totally erroneous understanding of what happened. It was amended successfully, rights were protected, and the Senate did pass a bill that upholds civil liberties and forbids militarization of domestic security and prevents erosion of citizens’ and resident aliens’ rights.
Say No to Corporate America
Dec. 19th, 2011 at 1:54 am
READ THE BILL!!!!!!!!!!!!
Citizens are NOT excluded from military detention, per amendment 1456, EXISTING LAW!
Jose Padilla, US citizen, picked up in the US and held by military for nearly FOUR YEARS, WITHOUT CHARGE <<– THAT IS THE EXISTING LAW, Court upheld YES THEY CAN.
read the bill read the bill, READ THE BILL!
and then read the letter BY lawmakers, The letter expresses legitimate concerns by lawmakers. Regardless of rhetoric by the globalists, their puppets in DC, their media or their trolls… NO American should find any comfort in the knowing lawmakers have such serious concerns! As I listened to the Senate and House before they voted on the FINAL draft, there is still too much apprehension by lawmakers. They make the laws and they should have no hesitation to insert clear language to exclude US citizens and legal resident from military detention, indefinite or otherwise, yet they do not. They are supposed to follow the Rule of Law, and they do not even when lawmakers, civil rights groups and The American People have expressed their concerns. Who is the threat?
letter was written by U.S. Rep. Justin Amash, before the House vote because, “As we learn more about the Senate’s detention provisions, we are increasingly concerned with their breadth and their potential to authorize the indefinite detention of American citizens without charge or trial,” Other signers were, U.S. Rep. John Conyers, D-Detroit, Rep. Michael Capuano. D-Mass.; Rep. Morgan Griffith, R-Va.; Rep. Walter Jones, R-N.C.; Rep. Dennis Kucinich, D-Ohio,; Rep. Raúl Labrador, R-Idaho, Rep. Jim Moran, D-Va.; Rep. Bill Posey, R-Fla.; Rep. Scott Tipton, R-Colo. and Rep. Rob Woodall, R-Ga.
READ the full text of the letter:
www.mlive.com/politics/in...
SEE MORE, 'Permanent Martial Law – NO Due Process for Americans in America', saynotocorporateamerica.b...
-martial-law-no-due-process.html
Churchlady
Dec. 20th, 2011 at 12:26 am
Go up above – the Supreme Court overturned indefinite detention and forbade the Pres. to have those powers. Grow up.
Say No to Corporate America
Dec. 19th, 2011 at 1:54 am
‘Permanent Martial Law – NO Due Process for Americans in America’, saynotocorporateamerica.b...
Churchlady
Dec. 20th, 2011 at 12:27 am
unreliable source. Go read the damned bill – FINAL version.
DTS
Dec. 19th, 2011 at 12:35 pm
This article is simply wrong. It does, absolutely, apply to U.S. citizens. I’ve read it, here’s a breakdown of the logical structure of it:
(1) The president may detain ANYONE suspected of aiding Al Qaeda, the Taliban, or related kinds of activities*, and may hold them until the ‘end of hostilities’** without access to an attorney, or a trial. He is REQUIRED to do this if they are captured overseas (this is to keep him from trying them civilly, as Obama was trying to do to get Guantanamo closed).
(2) This REQUIREMENT does not extend to U.S. Citizens.
(3) This law does not add to any powers.
So, people saying this doesn’t apply to U.S. citizens are quoting only (2) and (3). However, (2) only means the president doesn’t HAVE to detain citizens. It is (1) that allows for it if he chooses, and that is the problem. Further, (3) says it doesn’t add to his power, but that’s because the authors already think he currently HAS that power, due to a combination of other policies passed before – which is why U.S. citizen Padilla, for example, was held for years – basically kidnapped by the executive branch from the legislative branch – completely outside our legal system.
Oh yeah, the bill also declares U.S. soil a battleground, which carries with it all kinds of untold consequences. This is why people are saying it’s the equivalent of declaring marshal law in the U.S. – even if the troops aren’t standing on the corner, but in terms of rights.
Notes on the above:
* In other words, an expanded definition from last year’s NDAA which limited to Al Qaeda, now including nearly anything they might want to call ‘terrorism’ – and consider that a recent article revealed that authorities are being trained that protests can be considered a ‘low level’ form of terrorism.
**Or, the end of the war on terrorism, or, until there is no more terrorism, or, never.
Chris M.
Dec. 19th, 2011 at 3:05 pm
DTS, this is by far the best and clearest summary I’ve yet encountered (including from Greenwald) of this disturbing and deliberately complicated assemblage of statutory language. Kudos! I hope you won’t mind if I quote you elsewhere when discussing this.
Tim
Dec. 21st, 2011 at 10:18 pm
Keep moving the goal posts, why don’t you. WHY WON’T YOU ADMIT YOU GOT HAD BY THE VIDEO?
I DIDN’T READ ANYTHING IN THIS ARTICLE THAT DEFENDED NDAA.
It’s like you’re trying to be as dumb as you can be or you think everyone else will fall for your concern troll bit and forget about the video that was used to justify blaming the President for this.
So, you care about the truth WHEN it suits your agenda. Thanks for playing!
Reynardine
Dec. 19th, 2011 at 5:20 pm
In all of this, no one appears to have posted a link to the full text of the actual bill.
Jason Easley
Dec. 19th, 2011 at 7:59 pm
There is one in Ray’s post here at Politicus:
www.politicususa.com/en/s...
Reynardine
Dec. 19th, 2011 at 10:12 pm
Thanx.
Zappo23
Dec. 19th, 2011 at 8:38 pm
It seems to me that “Say No To Corporate America” is a couple cards short of a full deck. You keep saying “Look at the facts” but you have not provided any facts for me to look at, other than links to your own blog. And before you say “it’s out there, look it up,” it is not my job to convince myself of the validity of your claims. It is YOUR job to convince me. I defy you to back up your claims with legitimate facts that weren’t taken from OTHER entries on your blog.
toyotabedzrock
Dec. 22nd, 2011 at 12:54 am
The problem is that the bill allows for rendition to take place still.
keir
Dec. 28th, 2011 at 5:10 pm
There was a Bonnie Wheeler that unknowing to Obama taped his meeting with volunteers in San Fran of him saying that the people in Pa. were interested in Guns and God. Well that is not exactly what he said..But this Wheeler edited the tape. What he said was..a volunteer asked him how to deal with people that wanted to argue. He said that the people had been left out of the abundance that others had received..that they could only cling to what they knew..their traditions of Guns and God.
Not exactly what was reported was it. I have no idea if this Wheeler is the same one…but seems the MO is the same.