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Piers Morgan Says Flawed Bible Must be Amended
By: Hrafnkell HaraldssonDec. 27th, 2012more from Hrafnkell Haraldsson

And not only the Bible. The British star of CNN’s “Piers Morgan Tonight” said on Monday that “Both the Bible and the Constitution were well intentioned but they are basically, inherently flawed. Hence, the need to amend it,”
He was addressing anti-gay bigot Rick Warren, and Warren was having none of it:
“There is still an element of the bible that is flawed,” Morgan told Warren on his program, Piers Morgan Tonight.
“I do not believe the bible is flawed,” Warren replied.
“My point to you about gay rights, for example, it’s time for an amendment to the Bible.”
“Uh, no,” Warren told Morgan. “Not a chance. What I believe is flawed is human opinion, because it constantly changes.”
Watch courtesy of Mediaite:
“You should compile a new bible,” Morgan said with a laugh.
“I willingly admit that I base my worldview on the bible, which I believe is true,” Warren maintained. “Opinion changes, but truth doesn’t.”
“We’re going to have to disagree on that,” Morgan told him.
What Warren ignores is that the Bible constantly changed as well, for many centuries, before it was put into the condition it is now. Many flawed human votes went into deciding which makes make up the Christian scripture.
What most conservative Christians do not seem to understand is that neither the Old nor New Testament sprang fully grown from God’s mouth. They are the products of centuries of development and revision. Warren says they should not be changed, but they have been changed many times before.
Many Christians might be surprised to learn that there was in fact no “Old Testament” during the so-called Old Testament period. It simply did not exist. The term itself is, like “Judeo-Christian” a Christian ideological construct necessitated by a Christian reliance upon Jewish scripture; it is meant to show a continuity between the two bodies of texts that does not in fact exist.
The first to use the term was the Christian apologist Tertullian, writing in the second century. In his Against Marcion he refers to two testaments (3.14), named later (4.6) as the “Old” (Vetus Testamentum) and the “New” (Novum Testamentum).
That is not to say that religious texts did not exist in Old Testament times; they did – and not only in Israel but among all Late Bronze and Early Iron Age societies. But what there was existed in various forms. There was no single version enshrined as canon, as the finds at Qumram have shown. Frank M. Cross has observed that the Dead Sea Scrolls date from “an era when local texts prevailed.”[1]
This “local” era extends far into Israel’s past, and it was not until the second century of this era that it came to an end and there came to be an authoritative recension of the Hebrew Bible, a development that coincided with the establishment also of a Christian canon.
Athanasius (298-373) is the first Christian to identify the same 27 books of the New Testament that are in use today (Festal Letter 39). This was in 367 C.E. Damasus, Bishop of Rome, wrote a list identical to that of Athanasius in 382 and when the Third Synod of Carthage in 397 repeated both lists it was only ratifying the canon accepted previously at the Synod of Hippo Regius in North Africa, 393.
By contrast, when Christianity began, it had only the Septuagint and an oral tradition of the teachings of Jesus. Clement, the third or fourth pope (the Vatican assigns him the years 92-99 C.E.) knew nothing of any “Gospels.” For Clement, the Bible was the Old Testament and though he refers to some sayings of Jesus and to the letters of Paul, he does not refer to them as “Scripture” (First Epistle of Clement to the Corinthians c. 96 C.E.).
The first Christian “canon” does not appear until c. 100 in the Bryennios manuscript, a 27-book Old Testament which is written in Koine Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew. Irenaeus, (130-202 CE) added 1 Clement and The Shepherd of Hermas but makes no references to Philemon, 2 Peter, 3 John or Jude. Even Eusebius, writing c. 300 did not have a complete “Scripture” (Ecclesiastical History 3.3 and 3.25). Yet all the while we are supposed to believe that the New Testament has absolute veracity as the word of God. How is it that if God knew what was true and what was not, it took him almost 400 years to decide?
Helmut Koester, in examining the early works of Christian authors, finds no mention of written gospels anywhere. Of 1 Clement he says, “the author did not know or use a written gospel.” For Clement, ‘gospel’ “means preaching in general” (as in 1 Clement 47.2).
The Epistle of Barnabas, dating from the same period, also uses the word “gospel” as an oral, not written, proclamation. The Didache, Koester finds, is more problematic but the only use as written gospel (Did 1.3-5) is, he says, “an interpolation that must have been made after the middle of the 2d century.” If we move onto the second epistle of Clement, dating from c. 150, it may reveal use of “gospel” as referring to a written source by “the evidence is somewhat ambiguous.”
Finally, the Shepherd of Hermas, early taken as scripture and part of some later canons, uses “gospel” as neither verb nor noun. Though some passages “seem to allude to phrases and stories of the Synoptic Gospels…actual quotations…never occur.” In Polycarp (d. c. 155-167) he finds “the absence of the term ‘gospel’…equally noteworthy.”[2] Certainly if there was not only a fourfold canonical gospel but also an entire New Testament in circulation by the middle of the second century, we should expect these authors to be aware of it. Their silence speaks volumes.
New Testament scholar Francois Bovon, who argues that “we must learn to consider the gospels of the New Testament canon, in the form in which they existed before 180 CE, in the same light in which we consider the apocrypha. At this earlier time, the gospels were what the apocrypha never ceased to be.”[3]
If you want to talk about the change Warren abhors, look at the development of the Christian canon: it is a story of change.
The Muratorian canon shows a state of flux. It is generally dated to the second century (though the copy we have dates from the eighth and is in what Bart Ehrman describes as “truly awful” Latin) and gives as canonical works (in order): [Matthew], [Mark], Luke, John, Acts of the Apostles, Epistles of Paul (all 13), Jude, 1 and 2 John, the Wisdom of Solomon, the Apocalypse of John, and the Apocalypse of Peter. The document ends in midsentence but gives us a canon of 22 books (out of the 27 we now have) and leaves out Hebrews, James, 1 and 2 Peter and one of the Johannine Epistles (it does not indicate which two of our three it accepts as canon).[4]
Bart Ehrman dismisses the suggestion made by some scholars that the 367 CE letter (Festal Letter 39) of Athanasius represents the closing of the canon. Didymus the Blind, a contemporary of Athanasius, felt that 2 Peter (also missing from the Muratorian canon) was a forgery and so dismissed it from the canon, while added the Shepherd of Hermas (which the Muratorian canon said should be read but not as Scripture) and the Epistle of Barnabas.
The Syrian Church authorized a 22-book canon as late as the early fifth century which excludes the familiar 2 Peter, 2 and 3 John, Jude and Revelation, and the church in Ethiopia added four books to Athanasius’ 27.[5] It is difficult to imagine that if a whole New Testament had been circulating as early as the mid-second century that people like Didymus and Athanasius, among others would have been arguing about it as late as the latter half of the fourth century (200 years later!).
Warren maintains that the Bible is the “truth” and sure, 2 Tim 3:16, agrees, saying, “Every scripture passage is inspired of God,” but scholars do not believe Paul wrote Timothy. Somebody lying about being Paul wrote that what he wrote was the inspired word of God when it wasn’t even the inspired word of Paul.[6]
As Bart Ehrman explains, “The early Christian gospels…were never intended to be disinterested descriptions of historical data. They are, after all, called ‘Gospels,’ which means something like ‘the proclamation of good news.’ Whoever wrote these books meant to show that the life, death and resurrection of Jesus brought salvation – that is – they had a theological agenda. These books aren’t ‘objective’ descriptions of what Jesus said and did.”[7] In this regard we should do well to remember, as Helmut Koester reminds us, that “both Luke and Justin Martyr confirm that authors were at liberty to change the text of the older writings as it was required by their arguments.”[8]
So Morgan is right: the Bible is flawed. The Old Testament is the outdated and ethnocentric perspective of Bronze and Iron Age Jews over a period of many centuries of history (and concomitant changes to their religion and society) and the New Testament did not exist until centuries after Jesus’ death and then as a result of many debates and votes over the breadth of the Roman empire. Christianity itself has changed a great deal since Paul’s day and will continue to change, just as attitudes will continue to develop and evolve.
In the end, the Bible is no citadel; there is no timeless, eternal freedom from change to be found there because it is itself a record of change. And most ironic of all, even the idea that the Bible is the perfect, inerrant word of God, is a recent development, the result of the change Warren so decries.[9]
[1] Frank M. Cross, Jr. “The History of the Biblical Text in the Light of Discoveries in the Judaean Desert,” HTR 57 (1964), 286.
[2] Helmut Koester, Ancient Christian Gospels: Their History and Development (Philadelphia: Trinity Press International, 1990), 15-19.
[3] Francois Bovon, “The Synoptic Gospels and the Noncanonical Acts of the Apostles,” HTR 81 (1988), 20. Bovon who holds a doctorate in theology from the University of Basel, taught at the University of Geneva Divinity School from 1967-1993, an institution founded by John Calvin in 1559. He is currently Frothingham Professor of the History of Religion at the HarvardDivinitySchool.
[4] Bart D. Ehrman, Lost Christianities: The Battles for Scripture and the Faiths We Never Knew (NY: Oxford University Press, 2003), 241-242.
[5] Ehrman, Lost Christianities, 230-231.
[6] Ehrman, The New Testament, 287, Peter, Paul and Mary Magdalene, 93-94. Michael Grant agrees: “Such writing has evidently been the fate to an even larger extent, of the ‘Pastoral Epistles’, purporting to be written by Paul…in their present form these letters seem to be of early second century date.” Grant, Saint Paul, 4. But Ben Witherington feels that the Pastoral Epistles may have been written by Luke “for” Paul towards the end of his life and that in any event, they do not “present us with a Paul that is at odds with the image of Paul that is at odds with the image of Paul found in the earlier Paulines.” See Witherington, The Paul Quest, 10.
[7] Bart Ehrman, Peter, Paul and Mary Magdalene, 10.
[8] Helmut Koester, “Written Gospel or Oral Traditions?” JBL 113 (1994), 295.
[9] For a discussion from an Evangelical perspective, see Millard J. Erickson, “Biblical Inerrancy: The Last Twenty-Five Years,” JETS 25/4 (1982), 387-394. Retrieved from www.etsjets.org/files/JET… Even ideas about inerrancy have evolved.
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Larry Dillon
Dec. 27th, 2012 at 3:34 pm
Forget amending the Bible just do away with zealots.
Everyday Freethought
Dec. 27th, 2012 at 4:03 pm
Note to Rick Warren: Our opinions change because our understanding of reality improves.
Does Rick Warren follow all the rules in the Old Testament? If his god never changes his mind, then RW should follow all of them.
Churchlady
Dec. 27th, 2012 at 5:32 pm
EF – that’s exactly on point. Only Rushdoony the extremist claimed to live by Biblical lights, and he never did since stoning your sassy kid tends to carry legal punishments he’d not like to incur.
Those who believe the Bible is literal and inerrant are fewer and fewer on the ground. Of course the Bible is flawed – there are over 400,000 VERSIONS (not just copies)that have changes large and small as Hrafnkell notes. The OT is the best shot at directives a primitive and fearful tribal society could come up with, and as the books morphed over time, they became less “eye for an eye” and more about justice. That mirrored their societies.
The story of Jesus is about a RADICAL transformation from this tribal orientation, the exercise in power and traditional authority, to a world that could be guided by perfect love, justice, and full inclusion of all people.
Paul gives most of us heartburn in the progressive faith world – he never knew Jesus and had an authoritarian quality that found great favor with the new church leaders even as it betrayed what Jesus taught. Pauline interpretations are not accurate – they deviate from the teachings and reinforce hierarchy, patriarchy, separation. He became VERY popular with the church hierarchy and one can see why.
For all the glorious secular leaders who have been inspired to justice by the teachings of Jesus and Jesus alone, there is only popular silence today. Gone are references to Rev. King, Rev. William Sloane Coffin, to the brave liberal to radical leaders of EVERY progressive movement in America. But they and we are the majority in numbers, and we WILL be the revision in the interpretation because our voices have been those most faithful to teachings Christ gave us, are those devoted to justice and respect for all people, and we WILL prevail in regaining a sense of unity and inclusion the RW has destroyed over the past 40 years.
Christopher
Dec. 27th, 2012 at 4:19 pm
We should not be basing secular law on the Bible anyway. The Bible should be periodically retranslated, but to add or remove books I think requires overwhelming consensus. Otherwise simply acknowledging how long ago the various books were written and that certain specifics should no longer be considered operative should be enough. The overarching themes of love and justice never go out of date!
Sally
Dec. 27th, 2012 at 4:56 pm
King James was responsible for the idea that only men could preach, and that women were subservient. It is also interesting that over the years, no one added anything prohibiting homosexuality or abortion..I mean, if these men were against those things, wouldn’t they have added text to that effect? Warren is a super-rich leader of a megachurch whose members thin k he is God, just like Osteen. They have bastardized the Bible to line their pockets. Interesting too that the evangelicals and Mormons, who claim a direct line to God, are more interested in making money than making the world a better place. And that is against everything anyone ever wrote about Jesus.
Shiva (Moderator)
Dec. 27th, 2012 at 5:11 pm
I have to ask myself why a God of unlimited powers would create a mammal world in which homosexuality was not uncommon? Did he put it there for a test? If so I certainly don’t need him. That’s like saying God has a sense of humor that he uses when he takes time out from making the universe go around.
There were a great many books(religious texts) that were gone through when the Bible was put together. What part of the story did we not get because of the bias of the two people compiling the list?let’s face it, any time the Catholic Church is involved you’re going to get an extremely biased opinion coming out of those times.
from my reading there was a minimum of four creation stories and possibly more. Are they sure they pick the right one?
The things Christians don’t know about the religion that they inscribed to would horrify them if they knew them. Not because they’re horrible, but just because they’re things that they’re not told and they don’t do the research as pastor Glenn Beck always asks them to do. And they should also think about the fact that the religion no longer response to the people, the people arn’t the ones who are going to go away. New religions are not hard to begin
Elizabeth 44
Dec. 27th, 2012 at 5:26 pm
If God didn’t have a sense of humor, he would have “zapped” mankind a long time ago. I think “he” keeps us around because we provide a good laugh at our stupidities.
Rho
Dec. 28th, 2012 at 10:40 am
Actually, I don’t think that is Yahweh’s sense of humour so much as it is Loki’s.
Maybe another neolithic faith might just need a reboot, but Hraf already knew that.
youtu.be/G-4uzfK8yjE
Shiva (Moderator)
Dec. 27th, 2012 at 5:20 pm
and one other thing. If you are a Christian you should accept what God has given you. God’s will be done right? There are homosexuals in the human and animal world. You do not have the right or the cause to question those biology’s, but you must care for them like you care for yourself. You do not have the right to judge them or to become a bigot over things that are out of your control. nothing is perfect in this world given it was created by a perfect being and as a Christian you must strive for perfection in your mind and in your heart. That means loving your neighbor as you love yourself.
my opinion? If you’re a bigot or a hater you fail the smell test. Your God is already turned his back on you
Elizabeth 44
Dec. 27th, 2012 at 5:22 pm
I am far from a literalist, but I’m against “changing” the Bible. You don’t change your myths. They continue to have something to say about humanity, its nature, and its relationship with God. Serious study of the Bible requires understanding the culture and environment of the time it was written. What was the author trying to say? Why all the laws in the Old Testament? I think there are other early Christian writings which are valuable. I also think there are modern writings which are as valuable as the ancient texts to modern Christians. So don’t change, add to…
Sergio
Dec. 27th, 2012 at 5:33 pm
The fact that people believe in the bible as anything but a myth shows a flaw in the human mind like say Rick warren of hate gays and own guns inc
The constitution though can and should be amended to reflect a modern world it’s been done before with suffrage with slavery with pohibition and civil rights we just need people like warren the FRC and the extremist right to get out of the way
terry
Dec. 27th, 2012 at 5:43 pm
is it possible to, or even worth, amending a work of fiction
savageDOG
Dec. 27th, 2012 at 7:47 pm
from emperor Constantine’s influencing the loving, forgiving Jesus into the WARGOD, Jesus which could defeat any other God, to Rome altering the words in order to keep POWER of Christianity in Rome…all the way to 1976′s New American Bible, altered to reword the biblical legal definition of when/if a fetus is a life… all to the end purpose of political / power control.
a good historical read is “THE 48 LAWS OF POWER”
robyn ryan
Dec. 27th, 2012 at 8:47 pm
The hammer of facts smashes its foes!
Great seed.
The New Testament (the part where Jesus dies for your sins and makes a new covenant with himself – I mean, god) was written long after a historical Jesus died.
It’s sort of like David Barton and Thomas Jefferson – over 200 years between author and subject.
That’s not the problem. These people are trying to defend the idea of the Sacred Word in a visual world. It used to be you could control information because only some people could read, or gain access to books. The Western discovery of the movable type press broke the dominance of the priest.
Now you don’t need to read. You can see, or listen. The interpreters of the ‘gospel’ to the people are out of a job. They pretend they have ‘secret knowledge.’ They rule by fear of hellfire and war. They are obsolete. A hierarchy, and perhaps corporations, are impossible in this current technological phase. Too many people with too much access to information for the supply/demand model to continue.
jimvj
Dec. 28th, 2012 at 12:40 pm
Hrafnkell Haraldsson: Thanks for a great synopsis of the evolution of the “Bible” in the western tradition. In addition to all the vagaries you describe, there were/are other “Christian” traditions that evolved along separate lines. Like the eastern “orthodox” sects, and the Ethiopian church. They have different definitions of what is canonical.
Most Christians are ignorant of the fact that neither Jesus nor Paul – who were the principal founders of the religion – had any concept of a “Bible”. The concept of scripture was prevalent. But as you point out, it was a very fluid and local concept; it was definitely not a canonical set of texts that were to be taken as a whole.
The Pauline epistles predate the gospels by 20 years and more. But, strangely, Paul never seems concerned about divulging details of Jesus’ earthly life to the converts in the churces he founded. Moreover, Paul never considers his letters to be ranked on a level with the books of Moses or the prophets, etc.
Marrow
Dec. 28th, 2012 at 1:32 pm
Whenever someone who thinks they know it all doesn’t understand something, whatever it may be, they say its flawed. Piers humble yourself, then you just might be able to see just how flawed you are and perhaps begin to understand and appreciate the Holy Bible.