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President of the ‘Conscience Of the Republican Party’ Says Pregnancy by Rape is Rare
Ronald Reagan called the California Republican Assembly “the conscience of the Republican Party”. The President of that conscience, Celeste Greig, told Mercury News that the percentage of pregnancies by rape is small “because it’s an act of violence, because the body is traumatized.”
Mercury News reported:
Ironically, Greig was in the midst of criticizing former Missouri U.S. Senate candidate Todd Akin for saying that victims of “legitimate rape” rarely get pregnant because “the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.” It was a remark that many believe led not only to his defeat in November but also helped tarnish the Republican brand around the country.
“That was an insensitive remark,” Greig said. “I’m sure he regretted it. He should have come back and apologized.”
Greig, however, went on to say: “Granted, the percentage of pregnancies due to rape is small because it’s an act of violence, because the body is traumatized. I don’t know what percentage of pregnancies are due to the violence of rape. Because of the trauma the body goes through, I don’t know what percentage of pregnancy results from the act.”
Here’s a clue for Republicans. If you don’t “know”, then you probably shouldn’t say anything. Here she is saying rape from pregnancy is small, but then she goes on to say she doesn’t know the percentages, “Granted, the percentage of pregnancies due to rape is small because it’s an act of violence, because the body is traumatized. I don’t know what percentage of pregnancies are due to the violence of rape.”
Sad to say that Greig is a female, who might be expected to understand that indeed the female body does not shut down when traumatized. But in case that fact escapes her, there’s always history. Rape is a weapon of war WHY, Republicans?
The truth is that Republicans are not this stupid. While it’s true that they put on a good show denying science and defying logic, they say things like this because it is the only defense they have for their policies that protect the “preborn” more than they do the already live human body carrying the preborn. Faced with the reality that their policies force women to carry pregnancies to term and therefore remove liberty from women, Republicans have to pretend like pregnancy from rape is rare.
The party of alleged personal liberty can’t find any way to reconcile their extremist religious views and desire to impose those on all Americans other than to deny reality.
So we get variations of “rape from pregnancy is rare!”
Mercury News pointed out that most studies show women get pregnant at the same rate from rape as they do from consensual sex, although one study showed women getting pregnant at more than double the rate as consensual sex. Since we don’t like to make up our own science, and that study hasn’t been duplicated, let’s just go with it’s the exact same odds as consensual sex. That means that Republicans want to force rape victims to carry their rapist’s preborn to term.
Once a woman does that, it’s relevant to note, this is the same party killing aid to impoverished children and single mothers, as well as the party trying to kill public education. This is also the party whose national platform, when followed through logically, makes some forms of birth control illegal. This is called “freedom” GOP style.
The California Republican Assembly describes themselves as “Chartered in 1934, the CRA is the state’s oldest and largest Republican volunteer organization. CRA has been working to elect Republican candidates who stand unwaveringly for Republican principles.”
Here’s Reagan praising the CRA:
The California Republican Assembly doesn’t believe in federal taxes, believes in “traditional families”, the “preborn” and national defense (ha ha, has anyone told them what the Republicans in Congress did to national defense?).
And also, the CRA believes that women don’t get pregnant from rape very often because the body shuts that crap down!
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62 Responses to President of the ‘Conscience Of the Republican Party’ Says Pregnancy by Rape is Rare
Peter Barnett
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 10:20 am
While he reason why pregnancy from rape was wrong, pregnancy from rape still is rare in the grand scheme of the number of pregnancies each year. I find it ironic that abortion advocates hide behind the most gut-wrenching decisions that happen less than one percent of the time to justify their entire position on abortion.
djchefron(Moderator)
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 10:27 am
I think ,well my position is A WOMENS RIGHT TO CHOOSE.No more No less.If you choose not to have an abortion .Fine.If you choose to have one Fine.See its that simple,,the right of choice.
Elizabeth 44
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 11:40 am
I would like references to reliable scientific studies on the subject.
djchefron(Moderator)
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 11:45 am
He doesnt have to show us jack.The Roman Catholic Church say its wrong and come hell or high water what Peter say is the TRUTH!!!
Patrick
Mar. 3rd, 2013 at 12:55 am
Come, don’t put words in his mouth. The guy makes a perfectly reasonable point and you immediately jump to the assumption that his views are religiously motivated. Not very classy. He might as well assert that your support of women’s right to choose is motivated by your own promiscuity, eh?
What this whole debate really comes down to personhood and that’s it. Reasonable minds can differ about that shit, yo, and only an asshat would suggest otherwise.
djchefron(Moderator)
Mar. 3rd, 2013 at 8:06 am
See when you post often on certain subjects you can assume thats where a persons belief system is at.He has never denied or corrected it in the past so it is what it is.
Bill
Mar. 3rd, 2013 at 4:07 pm
Now we’re going to go by what the Roman Catholic Church has to say? Yes, let’s just let them write the book of international law. I’d love to be able to follow all of the rules of the organization that covered up for decades how its priests were sodomizing and raping teenage boys. Give me a break.
Elizabeth, if the references to reliable scientific studies that you are seeking are in reference to just how many pregnancies result from rape, you’ll never find that information. Not all of the information is ever kept for public record or made available to the authorities. So many women don’t even report their rapes, either because they are ashamed, terrified of what might happen to them or both. I’d be willing to guess that there are a number of pregnancies that come from rape that are never reported.
Moderator…you need to get your head out of your ass as quickly as Celeste Greig does. He doesn’t need to show us jack? If he’s going to make sensationalistic statements like that, then he damn well better have something to back it up. We’ve already received enough opinion on this matter by way of Celeste Greig, the “conscience of the Republican Party”, a title bestowed upon her by the late, great (yeah right) Ronald Reagan. I don’t think we need any further opinion. If we can’t get some facts going here, then we’re obviously going to hit a brick wall at high speed in this conversation.
robyn ryan
Mar. 11th, 2013 at 2:41 pm
Stop whinging to be spoon fed information.
Do it yourself – it’s called ‘getting an education.’
Sally
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 11:50 am
Peter,
I never had an abortion, nor do I know anyone who has and I am 60 years old. And frankly, the GOP position on ABORTION would be acceptable IF they were not also against the morning after pill, which does NOT end a pregnancy but prevent one, and contraception in general. You are telling women that any time a man wants to have sex, that is just fine and dandy, and the woman should bear all the consequences, regardless of whether it is within marriage or rape. Where are any bills holding men accountable for their actions? You make us victims, and we fought long and hard NOT to be victims.
By the way, once a rapist impregnates a victim, she cannot, in some states, do anything BUT have the child without HIS consent. He also has visitation rights, but no duty to pay support. So, again, the woman is victimized twice. She is the victim of a sexual assault, and she has to raise a monster’s child without help from either the sperm donor or the government under the GOP mindset. And tell us again, about that aspirin and keeping our legs shut? I see those wise tidbits on posts all the time. hey guys, how about keeping your member in your pants and acting like an adult occasionally?
Paws
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 1:39 pm
Doesn’t matter why a woman seeks an abortion, Peter. What matters is that it is none of your business, nor is it the business of some ignorant legislator who doesn’t know her ass from a hole in the ground.
Churchlady
Mar. 3rd, 2013 at 12:06 am
Our position does not rely on rape.It relies on a woman’s decision to evaluate her life, her body, her experiences, her future, her faith, her values and morals, and her family situation. What problem with that do you – a MAN – have? HOW a woman becomes pregnant is not the issue. It is how she goes forward with that, wanting to bring a REAL child into the world or determining that it is terribly wrong, that matters. I stand firmly as a person in the faith community on respecting the moral agency of women. Abortion is NOT a form of irresponsible decision making but yes the deepest evaluation of the best choices one can make in this major life-altering occurrence. You cannot make those decisions for another person because it is NOT your body, your values, your future, your life. YOU can walk away – and men do that repeatedly even AFTER fully developed children are born. Embryos and fetuses are NOT people. Never were,and never will be no matter how you spin it. So do not dictate to women. We know the harsh realities of childbearing in all its infinite array of responsibilities, NONE of which men absolutely have to bear.
But when women are raped and become pregnant, it is the most horrific of experiences imaginable. The choice becomes even MORE profound. And it’s NOT up to you or any other person to make that decision for a woman who has already been profoundly harmed.
Get over your moral judgements on childbearing for someone other than yourself – which, observedly, you cannot do. It is NOT for you to say.
Lori
Mar. 3rd, 2013 at 12:35 pm
Thank you Churchlady for putting all the words together in a logical sequence that I have been trying to for years. I am a victim of rape and the words are hard to put together in a logical sequence when one gets emotional.
Patrick
Mar. 3rd, 2013 at 1:04 am
It’s called a reductio ad absurdum and if your position can’t withstand it you may be in trouble.
If you actually think the unborn are people, you really can’t back down even in cases of rape.
merrill wassum
Mar. 3rd, 2013 at 3:24 am
I would hope that the percentage comes out that way because a much greater number of women are having consensual sex, than are being raped.
Anne
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 10:28 am
Regardless of the frequency or rareness of pregnancies that result from rape, the fact remains that rape is a hostile, degrading act of violence in which sex is used to render victims powerless. There’s nothing that Celeste Greig or anyone else can say that changes that. In fact, she’s another example of how Republicans have learned absolutely nothing from their defeat last November. Pregnancy from rape is only one possible thing to worry about. There’s the threat of contracting an incurable STD from an assailant, and if physical force is used to overpower a victim, serious injuries or death can result. Then there are internal injuries, some of which can render victims infertile. So, they need to stop talking about rape and rape-induced pregnancies because they only expose themselves as clueless and unsympathetic–male or female.
Linda1961
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 11:31 am
Bravo Anne! Well said.
be funk note
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 10:33 am
Not one person in that room could pull out their smart phone and Google how many pregnancies from rape their are each year? It might not be exact since rape is under reported but it would give these idiots some idea.
Linda1961
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 11:30 am
Well said, be funk note. I’d give you the thumbs up, the site won’t let me. Never had that problem before, so I don’t know what’s wrong.
Elizabeth 44
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 11:44 am
I don’t know why either, but some days this site won’t take my “thumbs up” no matter how many times, or where on the thumb, I click it.
ChristineIAm
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 11:59 am
I’m having the same problem, Linda1961. 2nd time this it has happened.
Linda1961
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 4:35 pm
Now it’s taking my thumbs up, but it was irritating earlier. Don’t know whether to be glad or not that it isn’t just me.
robyn ryan
Mar. 11th, 2013 at 2:44 pm
me, too.
Sally
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 11:52 am
Why, that would mean that they dealt in facts, and we all know the purview of the GOP is lies, innuendo and fear. Period. When has one of them had any positive ideas for the country?
ChristineIAm
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 11:22 am
Peter Barnett – I always find it quite amazing when so called adults have no idea how “babies are made”. We women folk do not have magical vagina’s that can differentiate “rape sperm” from from “happy-clappy welcome sperm”.
One more reason why sex education should be mandatory in all schools. W/O it, we wind up with idiots that have no clue about biology and vaginas. Sex Ed should be a requirement for anyone that wants to run for office – since they want to talk so much about vaginas.
Linda1961
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 11:32 am
Another great comment, ChritineIAm.
zelduh
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 1:27 pm
ChristineIAm:
Personally, I think they need mandatory sex education in CONGRESS first.
djchefron(Moderator)
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 1:31 pm
This from a congressman who makes choices for women’s health issues
Rep. Sean Duffy (R-Wis.) answered a town-hall question about his position on transvaginal ultrasounds by joking that he hadn’t had one, according to audio posted by Wisconsin Democrats Wednesday.
A questioner asked Duffy about his position on transvaginal ultrasounds on Feb. 21, and a GOP bill in the Wisconsin legislature requiring women to undergo ultrasounds before getting an abortion.
“I don’t know what a trans-vaginal ultrasound is?” Duffy said.
“You don’t?” asked the questioner.
“I haven’t had one,” Duffy said. The crowd in the room laughed.
The questioner asked him if he would support legislation on the federal level.
“I haven’t heard of it. And just like I told you, I’m pro-life, and I know that you are too, but I’m not willing to say I support what you’re talking about because I haven’t seen the bill, even though we’re probably in agreement on that issue,” said Duffy.
YOU CANT MAKE THIS SHIT UP
Paws
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 2:01 pm
Oh yes, he can joke about a painful unnecessary procedure that he knows he’ll never have to go through. It’s all funny when it is happening to someone else.
I know Duffy is an idiot but to laugh and make a joke over something like this is just beyond the pale.
That said, if Mr. Duffy would like to at least understand the issue a little better, I’m sure a visit to an OB/GYN can be arranged and he can feel what it’s like – right up his ass.
Of course I say this only to be helpful and with no malice in my heart. ;)
Anne
Mar. 3rd, 2013 at 8:39 am
I wholeheartedly agree that there should be mandatory sex education. There is no excuse, religion or otherwise, for anyone to be so abysmally ignorant about matters involving sex, especially in such a wealthy powerful country in the 13th year of the 21st century. That’s doubly true for people in positions from which they can impose laws that have far-reaching, long-lasting effects. In addition, the fact that these ass-backward far right Republicans keep trying to deny the harmful physical and mental damage rapes cause victims reflects their sick, twisted thinking. What difference does it make whether or not rape results in pregnancy? Rape is an ugly, evil crime.
Evette
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 11:26 am
Well for the uneducated or misinformed the chances of getting pregnant from rape are 1 in 20. Unless of course your rapist was kind enough to use a condom or you are using one of those birth control methods that the GOP doesn’t want you to. So that would mean since there are approximately 207,754 reported rapes per year at the rate of 1 in 20 that 10,387 pregnancies. Now considering that only about 54% of rapes are actually reported the actual amount of pregnancies from rape jumps to about 20,000. I would hardly consider this a small number but considering the amount of yearly income these people bring in maybe they do. They probably spend more than that on a couch.
Tom
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 12:11 pm
“l amount of pregnancies from rape jumps to about 20,000.” So they only want to force 20,000 women to carry a baby every year?
Are women even people under the GOP? Less than a zygote but slightly more than an animal?
Sherlock
Mar. 3rd, 2013 at 8:48 am
I think you are correct in your math—- I have seen estimates in the 30,000 range.
Evette
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 11:56 am
Oh and for the further info for Mr Barnett and other’s like him that equals 5%, a bit more than the less than 1% you claim in your comment
labman57
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 1:18 pm
Once again, conservative politicos are demonstrating their unwillingness to do their homework before taking a stand on important policy positions affecting millions of Americans. Lord knows we don’t want to be informed about the fundamentals of human biology and medical treatments when creating legislation that would impact the health of so many women in America.
If ignorance is bliss, then these scientifically-illiterate, Bible-thumping, socially-regressive Republican politicians must surely be in a state of rapture.
Reynardine
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 1:59 pm
The only motivation for a rapist to use a condom is to avoid having his DNA typed, and with fewer and fewer rape kits being processed, that motivation is decreasing. Too many jurisdictions are charging victims prohibitive fees even to have them done, and then they’re still not processed. Rapists know this. Rapists know that abortions are increasingly difficult to get. Impregnating a victim gives a rapist increased power over her, especially when he can get custodial rights over the child, and the power to destroy her life is exactly what he wants. That is why some choose to victimize virgins, even children; it is why one such rapist deliberately infected his twelve-year-old victim with AIDS, and another, after raping and deflowering a victim the same age, cut off her clitoris to ensure she would never have pleasurable sex in her life. These “pro-life” legislators are rapist-enablers, misogynists to the last one, and I don’t doubt many of the males are rapists, wife-beaters, and daughter-fuckers themselves.
Paws
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 2:05 pm
If I could “like” your post a thousand times, I would. Thank you for your post.
Reynardine
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 2:46 pm
I appreciate that.
Melanie
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 10:17 pm
Amen. The republican men in this country and the republicunts who marry and support said men are enemies of freedom, and are the Christianist equivalent of Islamist terrorists. They need to be put out of office on every level. They are anti-American and are destroying the ideas America was founded on.
Reynardine
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 11:21 pm
Republicunts… I like it.
robyn ryan
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 2:03 pm
The 13th amendment forbids forced labor and involuntary servitude of citizens.
Women are citizens with W-2s, healthcare premiums, purple hearts, jobs, DD214s, government issued photo IDs, guns and driver’s licenses.
Forced pregnancy violates women’s 1st amendment and 13th amendment rights. EOD.
LosingHope
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 2:51 pm
Well said, Robyn. You might add to the list “human beings.” Getting damned tired of being classified, at least implicitly, as an “incubator.” Women will always be nothing more than second-class citizens to these maroons. VOTE THESE A**HOLES OUT IN 2014!
MikeOL
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 5:12 pm
The Republican Party, like the Democratic Party, has varied views on abortion, contraception, trans vaginal ultrasounds, etc and some are very far outside the political spectrum. To say that Republicans have more outlandish, extreme comments on issues is to ignore every instance a Democrat has made a similar face-palm comment.
Partial birth abortion, when the baby is delivered alive but killed prior to coming fully out of the mother, is a fringe issue that some Democrats support (including the President). A large majority of the country opposes this practice and only the far left wing of the Democratic party supports it so it would not be fair for the Republicans to claim that the entire party is for killing babies during delivery.
See how unfair it is to mischaracterize a statement made from an extreme viewpoint as the view of the entire party?
Do most of you really give credence to what some far-right social Republicans say? You do realize that members of the Democratic party say similar absurdities on other issues outside the social sphere. You’re choosing to use the fringe of one party to define it while simultaneously ignoring that the fringe of your own party would not be a flattering or true depiction of the party as a whole to the rest of the country.
All Republicans support access to contraception (universal free access is another issue)
Most Republicans are pro-life
Most Republicans believe in exceptions for rape and incest
Some Republicans are against abortion in all cases
Some Republicans are against the Morning-after pill
All Democrats support access to contraception
Most Democrats are pro-choice
Most Democrats are for funding Planned Parenthood
Some Democrats believe in abortion at anytime throughout a pregnancy
Some Democrats are for dispensing the morning-after pill in schools without parental notification
The sides are different but neither side is uniform. Please don’t paint well-meaing people with such a broad brush. I offer you all the same courtesy because you are good people to be interested in our country’s government and politics haha. Thanks!
Paws
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 6:03 pm
What it boils down to is this, Mike: My health care is none of your business and it sure as hell isn’t the business of any legislator. It is my business; it is between me and my doctor. Just as you would not like it if I or some anonymous legislator made your health care decisions, I don’t like it when others make my health care decisions – especially when they don’t even have a rudimentary understanding of biology.
So rather than make disingenuous lists, I’d rather you stand with the women who would like to keep their health care in the hands of their doctors and as private as I’m sure you’d like to keep yours.
Good day.
MikeOL
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 6:43 pm
Your healthcare decisions are entirely up to you. No one objects to that. If you are referring to abortion as healthcare then that is a bit different because it comes down to when, in your heart and mind, you feel life begins. This changes the discussion from one of healthcare to human rights.
If you feel someone is not alive until they exit the womb, that’s your own belief but you cannot say that this view is biologically based only philosophically and morally. Can you really fault individuals, who believe life begins when cells begin to replicate and grow, for defending this principle? If you can accept that others differ from you then you must accept that they are entirely right to try to stop, in their view, the killing of humans. For you to say that they have no right to voice opposition to abortion is ignoring the possibility that you could be wrong about when you view life begins.
Shiva(Moderator)
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 7:09 pm
Depending on which day it is, the Catholics believe that life begins at conception or life begins at your first breath.
Every precedents in history comes down to the person having the right of choice. When we decide to bomb a country like Iraq, we don’t care if we kill the mother and the baby. We don’t even care if we kill the baby whether unborn or born. And by we I am referring to history of war and death in society. This is not an argument about when life begins. This is an argument about whether or not the person should have a choice. And the right to have a choice.
You don’t have to believe in abortion to believe in the right of choice. You don’t have to believe in euthanasia to believe in the right of choice. All of these are the choice that the person makes for themselves. The baby does not have the right of citizenship, of decision, of discussion or anything else because it is a parasite at that point. Surely that’s a rough term, but that’s exactly what it is. The person who has to make the choice is the mother(or the family). They have to live with whatever consequences come.
The hypocrisy of saying we can kill an unborn baby yet we must be preemptive and killing people who might kill us is a joke. The supreme court says the mother has the right and that’s all there is to it. If they overturn themselves on religious grounds than they are in error. It is no one’s business except for the person having the abortion or making the decision to have an abortion or euthanize themselves.
gsb
Mar. 3rd, 2013 at 2:45 pm
Mikeol;
It seems Mikeol needs a lot of instruction.
Mike, I seem to remember that somewhere it states God, breaths life into a new soul. Now in all the d eliverys I’ve seen and had,until the new life breaths it is not alive. When the new delivery takes its first breath there is great relief in the delivery room. Tell me and the world, when a zygot has ever breathed any air on its own. Until this soul breaths on its own, it is dependent on another(.A parasite)It may have a heart and all else but, ubtil it breaths, it is flesh and blood, no life.
Reynardine
Mar. 3rd, 2013 at 2:51 pm
Then your hangnails are alive.
MikeOL
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 6:48 pm
Also, regarding keeping legislators out of healthcare decisions, the PPACA includes a review board of non-medical professional designated with the task of deciding what medicare and other government services will cover for recipients. This is an obvious and direct example of legislators, through government function, making decisions for everyone receiving medicare services.
I appreciate your dialogue and I understand completely where you’re coming from but there is no reason to imply that I am against women by asking me to “stand” with them. I do stand with many women who feel opposite of how you do. How you feel is not how all women feel and I hope you respect that.
Shiva(Moderator)
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 7:11 pm
That board the decides on what services will be covered for all recipients not for individual recipients. It is not Sarah Palin’s death panel.
That decision is made on costs. And the more people who are in the program determines how many more services people can get
djchefron(Moderator)
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 7:39 pm
Mike I think you will find this intteresting if you havent read it already
Health Insurance
Bitter Pill: Why Medical Bills Are Killing Us
Read more: healthland.time.com/2013/...
Paws
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 8:43 pm
I’m not implying you are against women – I never said that. What I said was that I would rather you stand with the women who would like their medical decisions to be between them and their doctor and whoever else she wants to be involved.
Who should not be involved is you or some legislator or some group that may not agree with her.
Also, when someone else thinks life begins is irrelevant to another person’s decision. One person’s beliefs are not the beliefs of others; my beliefs are not your beliefs.
The point is – it’s not for you to say. It is not your choice to make. It belongs to the woman.
Paws
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 8:48 pm
“How you feel is not how all women feel and I hope you respect that.”
I do respect that, Mike, I really do. You still don’t get a say in my healthcare decisions just because you don’t agree with my choices.
Sherlock
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 9:36 pm
If men could get pregnant – abortion would be a sacrament .
MikeOL
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 7:35 pm
Shiva I respect your view and I get that you don’t believe that a life begins at conception but many people do and will continue to hold that belief. As far as a life being a parasite, at what point in a pregnancy is that life a person? You are claiming that what determines a person is choice not biology. If you remove a seedling from the earth, is that not taking a life? If you kill a pregnant mother and her unborn child, that can be considered double-murder.
“Every precedents in history comes down to the person having the right of choice”
There are certain choices we are not allowed to make, correct? I am not allowed to murder, rob, rape, or assault anyone because that choice would cause harm to an innocent person. If we then can say that harming an innocent person is not an acceptable choice, we then can say that if a person views an embryo as person, not a parasite, the act of killing that person would be an unallowable choice.
This proves that it is a human rights issues, not a choice issue. We cannot choose anything we want to do because society does not, and should not, allow people to harm each other freely.
You are taking your own opinions as facts. I am not saying that I am definitively correct in my view that life begins at conception, although I am positive personally, I know that God is the definitive judge as to when someone is alive.
Healthcare decisions made by the accountability review board are based on cost. You are advocating that “That board the decides on what services will be covered for all recipients not for individual recipients. It is not Sarah Palin’s death panel.”
If I am a doctor who has a sick patient who needs a test but I am not sure whether the review board will allow the test or not, will I spend the large amount of money to conduct the test not knowing if I will be reimbursed?
Having unelected officials making decisions on what is covered and what is not covered for everyone in the country based on cost sounds scary. Every case is different and yet they will make a retroactive decision on whether or not to cover a procedure for millions of people long after the services were rendered. It’s a well-intentioned idea but the trouble is in the actual execution and side effects.
Shiva(Moderator)
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 8:17 pm
It doesn’t matter at which point it becomes a person. And I hope you understood why I said the word parasite, it was not in a negative tone.
In my opinion all that matters is that the fetus, the baby the parasite or whatever you want to call it is under the full direction of the mother until it pops out into the doctors hands and get spanked.
You certainly are not allowed to murder Rob rape or assault, but we are not talking about murder rate Rob or assault. We are talking about something within a person’s body. The first of all I don’t necessarily approve of abortion. But I believe the person has the right to make that choice. Abortion is not on the same levels as murder rate Rob and assault. Those are crimes against society. Abortion is not
I’m not taking my own opinions as fact, I fully recognize that they are opinions.
You do not understand what the board is for. The board does not rule per patient on what will be covered. The rules are set down in advance by the panel. I would certainly think that they would have medical advisers working with them as they choose what will be covered. When a patient comes to the Dr. needs a certain service, that Dr. will already know if it’s covered or not. He will not have to wait until a board convenes to determine if this patient gets the service. If you get the service in Utah, you get the same service in Michigan the matter who you are. It’s exactly the same way that Medicare is handled today. There are lots of services that Medicare does not cover. They are determined before hand. As I said before the more people in the system the more services that would be covered
Churchlady
Mar. 3rd, 2013 at 12:17 am
MikeOL – review panels in ACA do not do this kind of oversight. The Cleveland Clinic – and now UC Davis and thousands of other good medical systems – are changing the entire way hospitals and doctors bill. No longer do doctors have to ask permission to give a test – the payments are on OUTCOMES. If the patient gets well, then fine. The doctors no longer have to cover their butts by giving three MRIs where one will do. The billing codes are now ONE THING not thousands – it is the PATIENT. If someone has a tricky case, they will get tons of tests to find out what’s wrong. If it’s straightforward, they will no longer be charged for every aspirin and kleenex but given a protocol that WORKS. Period.
So all your fussing and hypotheticals reflect the existing method under private health insurance. The wave of the future under ACA is holisitic medicine. What the panels will monitor is over- or under-treatment. Period. If the person is in and out of the hospital and not recovering – bad medicine. This is how doctors USED to practice before insurance companies ruled the day, and soon it will be how they practice again. I’ve already seen it in action and it’s GREAT. It makes doctors and patients partners in getting WELL, not making the patient a cash cow for excessive lab tests and blanket rental.
You are totally out of date.
gsb
Mar. 3rd, 2013 at 4:30 pm
Mikeol:
Quote from you “I know God is the definitive judge as to when someone is alive”
Gen&2:7 tells us man was made from the dust from the ground “then God, breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;and man became a living being”
How about them apples Mike?
Sherlock
Mar. 4th, 2013 at 8:08 am
Hey Mike How about we dress you up like a Princess and run your butt thru the halls of Attica.
robyn ryan
Mar. 11th, 2013 at 2:52 pm
The GOP has been raping our land and resources for decades, and it’s not pregnant.
So they assume their indentured servants operate the same way.
Can someone explain to me how to add an image? It makes the pro choice argument perfectly.
Sherlock
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 9:31 pm
Republicans are not sick— Republicans are EVIL. Yes all Republicans are EVIL.
Rudy Gonzales
Mar. 2nd, 2013 at 10:39 pm
Celeste Greig’s name can now be added to the likes of Todd Akin, Paul Ryan, Roger Rivard, Rick Berg, Richard Mourdock and John Koster who wanted to re-define rape. Celeste Greig’s name can now be fully associated with John Birchers(B-1), Birthers(B-2), Evangelicals(E), Libertarians(L) and TEA-types(T). It doesn’t matter how or why these types define or believe “rape” is. Rape is just another form of abuse of women which was outlawed by the V.A.W.A. act just passed and to be signed by president Obama. TEA-quest-traitors have shown they didn’t learn one d— thing in November! People are not stupid. “Sweep your state Capital CLEAN….in 2014″ “Sweep the House CLEAN….in 2014″ “Sweep the Senate CLEAN….in 2014..2016..2018″
Churchlady
Mar. 3rd, 2013 at 12:10 am
If the numbes of preganacies from rape are down, it is due to the use in hospitals – including Catholic ones – of emergency contraception. I was a rape and domestic violence victim advocate, and I KNOW THIS TO BE TRUE. The presence of EC is essential to the well being of women who have already gone through the most traumatic event of their lives and choose NOT to compound it. EC is very often available in Catholic hospitals, dispensed by NON Catholic nurses and other medical practitioners. It is a moral good preventing pregnancies in women whose entire world has just been shattered and who have NO interest in being some holy martyr by becoming pregnant. So Greig is an idiot – it’s not ‘natural’ pregnancy prevention that helps. It’s emergency contraceptives that do.