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Rachel Maddow Debunks GOP Talking Point That S&P Downgrade Was Due To Debt
On Meet the Press today, Rachel Maddow debunked the GOP talking point that the S&P downgrade was due to debt not politics.
Here is the video from NBC News:
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David Gregory: This is a wider discussion. Rachel Maddow, it does get back to political dysfunction because if Americans are wondering where are the jobs, the bigger question is where is the economic growth. Like my kids, I like cartoons. This is one I saw in The Hill. The easy part, it shows where the parties jumping over the debt ceiling. If anybody thought that was easy, the harder part is the job growth. Austin Goolsbee projected growth that was wildly off the mark this year.
Rachel Maddow: We didn’t know how bad the recession was. We know the hole we have been digging out of is deeper than we thought. The question is whether or not the stock market dropping 500 points in a day and as much as it did in two weeks, the downgrade is going to be a wake-up call. What is feasible in Washington? The downgrade message, whatever you think of S&P, they mentioned the need for increased revenues and revenues being on the table three separate times. They indicted the Republican Party right now in Washington. It’s a question about whether or not there will be a change in fashion and whether or not it will be a wake-up call that the parties need to work together rather than the Republicans fashion right now, which is any deal is a bad deal.
Alex Castellanos: Where to begin? I don’t think the Republicans think any deal is a bad deal. When you look at the ratings, these Republicans in Congress are saying how can you grow an economy when you have to service this growing debt? They put their foot down on that. The problem is not Republican intransigence, the problem is balance, as the president likes to call it. We have balance. We have Republican intransigence, and we have Democratic intransigence. That’s why we got nothing done.
Rachel Maddow: That’s not why S&P says they downgraded us though. S&P said the downgrade was motivated by the debate of raising the debt ceiling. That’s why they say they downgraded us, not because there’s too much debt but rather Washington is not working. We did something insane with getting that close to defaulting on purpose.
The man behind the downgrade, John Chambers of S&P was on CNN’s Anderson Cooper 360 and he agreed with Maddow:
Cooper: Why did S&P downgrade the United States’ credit rating today?
Chambers: Well, I think there were two reasons. The first reason is the one that you have outlined, being our view of the political settings in the United States have been altered. We have taken them down a notch, the rating down a notch. The political brinkmanship we saw over raising the debt ceiling was something that was really beyond our expectations, the U.S. government getting to the last day before they had cash management problems.
There are very few governments that separate the budget process from the debt authorization process. And we also think more broadly that this debate has shown that although we do have an agreement that will and we do believe will deliver at least $2.1 trillion of savings over the next decade, it is going to be difficult to get beyond that at least in the near term. And you do need to get beyond that to get to a point where the debt-to-GDP ratio is going to stabilize.
COOPER: So it’s interesting. You’re saying without a doubt, the recent debate, the recent roadblocks in Congress, the tenor, the timing, the tone of the debate had a major impact on this.
CHAMBERS: Yes.
I think that’s what put things over the brink. In addition, we have a medium-term fiscal forecast that we see, you know, the debt-to- GDP ratio continuing to rise over the forecast horizon, and putting it in a position where it would no longer be compatible with many other AAA ratings.
As Maddow correctly pointed out, S&P downgraded the US because of the strategy that the Republican Party used of creating a debt ceiling crisis and demanding that budget cuts be tied to a debt ceiling increase. Chambers didn’t blame one party on his CNN appearance, but his writings and his stated reasoning leave little to question as to who and what he is talking about. It wasn’t just the strategy. It was also the reality that Republicans have made our political system is so dysfunctional that it is virtually a guarantee there will be no more agreed upon cuts beyond what is in this deal.
That is not to say that the left is blameless. Democrats, progressives, and activists all bought into the idea that a debt deal had to be a part of raising the debt ceiling. As S&P has pointed out, it didn’t. Buying into the Republicans ludicrous premise that these two things had to be done together enabled this crisis. Democrats and progressives should have stood up and said, we are not going to tie raising the debt ceiling to a debt deal. Raise the debt ceiling, and then we can discuss debt.
The left made a fatal strategic mistake by allowing Republicans to set the requirements for a debt ceiling increase. No, this is not just Obama’s fault. Every person on the left, who claims Obama caved on the deal is also to blame because they bought into the Republican construct that there had to be a deal in the first place. Democrats in Congress and the activists were both too busy buying into the horse race over the deal itself to stop and ask why we are discussing a deal in the first place.
Rachel Maddow knocked down the GOP talking point that their strategy of manufacturing a crisis had nothing to do with the downgrade. Republicans are still contending S&P downgraded US debt because we didn’t cut enough. People like Maddow need to continue going on national television every day and pointing out that Republicans made this crisis, and they caused the downgrade.
In a hostage situation, at some point it may become necessary to take action to free the captives.
Since the Democratic Party can’t free us, it is up to voters to go to the polls in 2012 and take out the hostage takers.
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47 Responses to Rachel Maddow Debunks GOP Talking Point That S&P Downgrade Was Due To Debt
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Green Genius
Aug. 7th, 2011 at 1:33 pm
How are we going to get more people like Rachel Maddow on TV everyday? They just took out Cenk Ugar. Corporate media only reports what is profitable for them. How are we going to change the stream of political consciousness in America? The only thing that changed it in the 60′s was the draft. In the thirties it was real hardship. In England they fight Tyranny, because they have lived it.
Jason Easley
Aug. 7th, 2011 at 6:36 pm
Sorry but Cenk was NOTHING like Maddow. He doesn’t even belong in the same sentence as Maddow.
Shiva (Moderator)
Aug. 7th, 2011 at 3:04 pm
Had the tea party forced a default, the downgrade would have been automatic I am sure.
Why the Boehner allowed people with a total lack of knowledge push him around is beyond me. A clean raise of the deficit ceiling would have passed the house and rendered them irrelevant
The GOP has to go.
Louis
Aug. 7th, 2011 at 3:13 pm
Well now,Rachael…. It’s dem Dems what got us that “new” credit rating. Or have you forgotten that a Democrat administration is in the Oval Office?
Blame this one on Bush ? lol,,,nice try…
Shiva (Moderator)
Aug. 7th, 2011 at 3:28 pm
Damm I forgot, even when Bush was in office the republicans never took responsibility. How could anyone think differently, even when The Constitution gives the responsibility for paying the debt to the House. I thought Obama was the president, bit now I find he IS the House!~
Cathy
Aug. 7th, 2011 at 5:36 pm
Read the down grade before making ridiculous statements.
Shiva (Moderator)
Aug. 7th, 2011 at 5:41 pm
Louis was just here to make a silly statement then run and hide under his bed
crsytalwolfakacaligrl
Aug. 7th, 2011 at 5:56 pm
Louis
S & P CEO friends with Mitt Romney got us a low credit rating and will be investigated by SEC.
www.politicolnews.com/sec...
Of course you Terrorist Teabbaggin’ bastards never take credit for what you’ve done.
2012 is ours!
Allen
Aug. 7th, 2011 at 11:56 pm
The simple truth is GOP is racist and hates a Black president. So, they are willing to destroy the whole USA to destroy him. To kill a mouse, burn the entire house. People with GOP title are morons and cannot think clearly. Their ancestors killed 50 million native Indians and took their property. What else can you expect from these racists?
Bobfr
Aug. 7th, 2011 at 4:01 pm
My letter to the President, 7 August 2011. For those of you who have twitter accounts, perhaps you will find the suggested tweet worthy of attention. I’ve forwarded copies of the letter to VP Biden, Leader Reid and Leader Pelosi and have posted it at OFA and TOD. As always, no pride of authorship or need for attribution – feel free to use any or all of it as you think useful for our just cause.
Onward!
———–
Good day Mr President,
Once again thank you for your bold, persistent, empathetic and productive leadership – despite the blatantly obvious intransigence of the Radical Republican Party.
That intransigence, as you know, is highly motivated by two things – you being President, and 40 years of their unrelenting pursuit of crushing the social compact that makes America great.
That intransigence is their creed, a creed born of avarice and nurtured by an unquenchable desire to have government of the few, for the few. The few being the wealthy.
We all know that.
What to do about it – besides re-electing you and a strong Democratic Congress.
Well, perhaps its time to start asking all Americans to call those they pay – their Congressional Representatives – and demand that they take zero tax payer paid vacations until the unemployment rate in America is below 7 % and the 180 tax exemptions identified by the Bowles Simpson commission are rescinded.
The fact is that linking jobs with closing tax exemptions for the wealthy and super successful corporations are coherent economically and politically.
And, its an economic and political concept that any American can understand and its even tweetable – ’7% or less unemployment, end welfare for the rich, then you can vacation, Congress.’
I’m sure you’ve already thought through all of this, so please accept the suggestion as nothing more than a citizen offering their albeit limited perspective.
Yes.We.Can. … DO.More.Together!
Bob
Russell Dee
Aug. 7th, 2011 at 4:09 pm
Madow is right of course but why isn’t the president using the bully-pulpit to hammer this same point home to Americans? Our President is too weak. We would have been better off with Hillary Clinton as President. If the President continues to sit on his hands and not take to the bully-pulpit to explain to Americans that it is the GOP/Intransigence that caused the debt downgrade then Americans will blame the democrats/Obama because the GOP is running around the country blaming the democrats/Obama. The president needs to fight back! Now!!!!
Dee
Aug. 7th, 2011 at 6:30 pm
“Our President is too weak.”
You are weak for writng this.
“We would have been better off with Hillary Clinton as President.”
Yes, The great Hillary would have stood up to the evil tea party, just like her husband stood up to the Republicans when he sign DADT, Welform reform, and NAFTA.
bdp514
Aug. 7th, 2011 at 4:59 pm
Of course she fails to mention that the S&P specifically said the KEY to fiscal sustainability was reforming Medicare and other entitlements. Something Reid, Pelosi and their minions were equally intransigent about opposing.
“In addition, the plan envisions only minor policy changes on Medicare and little change in other entitlements,the containment of which we and most other independent observers regard as key to long-term fiscal sustainability.
Our opinion is that elected officials remain wary of tackling the
structural issues required to effectively address the rising U.S. public debt burden in a manner consistent with a ‘AAA’ rating and with ‘AAA’ rated sovereign peers”
Until you reform entitlements all raising taxes is going to do is ensure you are right back at the table in a couple of years raising taxes again to pay for the growth in entitlement spending. And the American wage earner, unlike the fed, can’t simple print money, raise their taxes often enough and sooner or later they will run out of money.
Cathy
Aug. 7th, 2011 at 7:22 pm
Medicare needs work mainly do to the fact that participant payments have not been able to keep up with the rapid rise in health care costs. Medicare is an excellent program and needs to be saved for future generations. No one denies these problems, but the Republican plan is to dismantle or privatize, which is not a responsible plan. AND Social Security also is an excellent federal insurance program to ensure a comfortable retirement for our seniors. Our government has borrowed a lot from the SS trust fund, in fact the Social Security trust fund is the largest US debt holder. Your comment shows that you already had your mind made up about the reason for the downgrade, but S&P told officials several months ago that they were looking for debt reduction and increased revenue–a balanced approach.
bdp514
Aug. 8th, 2011 at 1:03 pm
Cathy, I happen to agree that additional revenues are going to be needed to get ourselves out of this mess. But I see very little merit in sending more of our money to D.C. unless politicians on both sides of the isle get serious about controlling spending, and right now neither side are. I agree with S%P, containing the cost of our large entitlement programs is the key to long term sustainability. And NO ONE is willing to do that because it is not politically expedient. Many democrats are just as adamant that there be no tinkering with those programs as republicans are that there be no new taxes. Both sides are going to have to budge. Yes medicare and social security accomplish some worthy goals. And there are reason both are on less than firm financial footing. Yes we’ve borrowed and squandered the SS funds previous generations have paid in. We also have a dwindling payer to benificiary ratio. Are there ways to improve both programs while containing the costs? We all better hope so. But we need to have an open and honest debate about that and neither side is willing to do that. Can we raise additional revenue in a manner that is consistent with promoting a thriving business and job creation climate. Again we all better hope so. And we need to have an open and honest debate about that too. Again that doesn’t seem likely at this point. And neither side is solely to blame for that. Their is plenty of intransigence and blame to go around. The S&P said that “elected officials remain wary of tackling the structural issues required to effectively address the rising U.S. public debt burden…” and I couldn’t agree with them more. On both sides of the isle they seem more interested in assigning blame and protecting their own jobs and power. Perhaps Tom Coburn said it best ““For decades, political careerism has trumped statesmanship in Washington,” Coburn said in a statement yesterday. “Both parties have done what is safe, not what is right. The dysfunction in Washington is the belief that we can live beyond our means forever. We can’t.” In the big picture S&P downgrade was not about a failure to raise taxes or a failure to control spending, it was about failure of government.
jlt
Aug. 7th, 2011 at 5:03 pm
R. Maddow , as usual cuts through the BS…Castellanos is the pits but gregory did nothing to dispell the wing nut lies..It is time he was given the ‘call the sponsor’ business… Don’t threaten …do it!
Fran Joy
Aug. 8th, 2011 at 3:41 am
Bravo!
Robert
Aug. 7th, 2011 at 5:57 pm
The biggest reason for the downgrade, is a growing global push to remove the US dollar as a global trading currency. This will release a lot of US dollars into the market, devaluing the dollar and substantively increasing the US foreign debt, not government debt but corporate trading debt.
The radicalism of the Republicans in attempting to use fiscal extortion in forcing their campaign backers policies just provides the means to accelerate the change to direct currency exchange between currencies, rather than using US dollars because no ones wants to get caught holding excessive US dollars when the value collapses in the cross trades as more countries seek to unload it.
So the big bet is now on for how much longer the US dollar will hold it’s place as a global trading currency, the more power the Republicans have the sooner it will occur, down to first few months of a Republican president versus towards the end of 2nd term of a Democrat president.
imax theater locations
Aug. 7th, 2011 at 7:00 pm
just blows my mind that anyone could blame “teapartiers” for this credit downgrade. How deep in debt should we go? should we have a ceiling at all? what if we go infinity in debt? I can’t see where anyone, liberal or conservative, could support running us further and further into debt. At least the TP’s were saying no more debt till we (at least try) to address the source of increasing it. I detect full bore whitehouse spin control in action over this one.
my beef with the teaparties? they still caved and didn’t really get any real cuts. they should use every means available to them to fight this grotesque expansion of our government… and they failed at this.
Shiva (Moderator)
Aug. 7th, 2011 at 7:32 pm
If it was just the debt they would not have dropped our rating. If the ceiling would have just been raised they would not have dropped our rating
In their explanantion they called out the GOP twice for its refusal to raise revenues and compromise. Pure tea bag problem. Tea bags wanted to drop spending yes, they also wanted us in default. Have you watched the news over the last 3 months?
Cathy
Aug. 7th, 2011 at 11:40 pm
Our debt is not the problem, but the new members of the House are ignorant of how the debt ceiling works. Most other countries don’t even have a debt ceiling. Our biggest problem is our economy, and if we can’t improve the job picture our federal deficit will continue to grow. Between the debt deal and the downgrade, economists are forecasting higher interest rates for all and the loss of many more jobs. Republican ideology is not realistic in our current economy.
Allen
Aug. 8th, 2011 at 12:04 am
Between 40-50% Tea party members benefit from the federal government funded sources. So, they have not understood that if you cut the government, they are all going to find out that there is no Mama or Papa to take care of them. If the Tea party is correct charity should begin from home – No payment and retirement benefits to politicians and they should get their own medical and other insurances on their own. Since they get bribe, they should be charged ‘service taxes’. Bush and the GOP created the entire mess – tax cut and 2 wars. If you don’t understand these facts, people like you will destroy the US as we know. I pity your logic and in ability to think through the issues.
Sam W
Aug. 8th, 2011 at 10:17 am
Are tea party members not supposed to benefit from tax-funded programs? They pay into the programs just like anyone else, why should they not get to use them? It only makes sense to use something that you’re forced to pay for; only a fool would dump money into resources an then refuse to use them on principle.
I’ll agree with you that our wars are healivy contributing to our economic woes—just lok at their price tag. Ending these wars shuold have been done already, but still this is only part of the answer to our problem.
Tax cuts aren’t a bad thing for a down economy; we just need to do it right—cut spending along with taxes, and promise stability through long-term tax reform. Businesses want to know what taxes will look like down the road. They want to be rid of uncertainty before hiring again.
You’re making a big mistake with the finger pointing and comdemning of a whole party because of one guy’s policies (and his policies didn’t even align with his party’s beliefs—bailouts, unfunded wars, increased entitlements). Try and be objective and consider that there are idiots on both sides of the isle, and all proposals by either party deserve objective judgment and analysis. Allowing your opinions of the other side guide your beliefs on policy is the reason Americans have such a negative perception globally. We don’t know how to solve problems, all we care about is making sure the other side is blamed for all problems and that they never get to score “political points” by having legisation passed.
Shiva (Moderator)
Aug. 8th, 2011 at 11:41 am
two things, one the tea party wants to get rid of Social Security Medicare and Medicaid. What you are saying is that 44 to 50% of tea party members are willing to give up those funds. And then you turn around and say the principle is meaningless. All the money they spent are paid in all those years is gone to start with, principle is meaningless to you.
Sam W
Aug. 8th, 2011 at 4:12 pm
I’m not entirely sure what your point is here, but I think what you’re saying is that the tea partiers should continue to pay their taxes funding social programs, but refuse to take any payouts from those programs. Like the program or not, only a fool would chip in and refuse to take benefits.
Shiva (Moderator)
Aug. 8th, 2011 at 4:29 pm
it is simple enough. 44 to 50% of the tea bags live on Social Security or some derivative of government entitlement. There is a large faction in the tea buggery that wants to do away with Social Security Medicare and Medicaid immediately. My question is why do they support the tea bags who want to take away their very subsistence? Why would they support them? Cut Cap And balance would take most of what they have away. And the best they can do is sit there and nod their heads
JoyfulA
Aug. 7th, 2011 at 7:26 pm
What we need is Medicare for all. Establish a buy-in price, and let anyone who wants it to buy true nonprofit medical insurance.
Rimsh0t
Aug. 7th, 2011 at 9:59 pm
Did you notice how the Republican side step the issues about tax reform, tax loop holes and the Bush taxcut. He is in a state of denial that any removal of them to him is a tax increase and it will involve the Status Quo who he will protect at any cost even the USA. The Bush Administration cause almost half the debt due to the the Bush taxcut and unfunded Wars. The US need reforms in all cases taxes, entitlements and Military. Stop Corporate Welfare and funding Churches on our dime.
Sam W
Aug. 8th, 2011 at 10:35 am
Do you know how much debt we had when bush left office? How about how much debt we have now? (A large majority has come since Bush has left)
That being said—I wouldn’t just sit there and assign blame to one party. But you are onto something withreform talk. Decreased entitlements, decerased military spending, decreased catering to religious special interests, no more corporate welfare. In order to solve problems we should stop pointing fingers and start discussing solid policy changes.
In order to do this, we need someone in office who will take the high road when it comes to the blame game—we need someone who will make these exact changes that it seems we agree on.
Kevin
Aug. 8th, 2011 at 12:51 am
the teabaggers are not any sort of majority in the country in the least, so what their small number of brainwashed constituents want is irrelevant, not counting the fact that it’s been proven to be wrong, repeatedly.
those teabaggers SAY they want to lower the debt but what they’re focusing on it future spending. they cant even get their own story straight, why would anyone consider their ideas at all valid?
John M
Aug. 8th, 2011 at 4:35 am
“I think that’s what put things over the brink.”
He didn’t say that is what caused it, he said that pushed it over the brink. Maddow is wrong this time. Debt and more caused our downgrade. The political bickering made them nervous yes, but it was the straw the broke the camel’s back, just one tiny piece.
We need to demonstrate to the lending community that the USA is taking the debt issue seriously. We can’t just keep borrowing and creating money out of thin air. The consequences will be disastrous to everyone, including our creditors. Cutting spending is the first thing that is necessary to get the debt issued handled. Loosening regulations among other government restrictions to make the free market freer is the next step. This in turn will create more taxpayers in the private sector which in turn will create more tax revenue. Do that and we look like a nation with sound money.
Sam W
Aug. 8th, 2011 at 9:59 am
We should begin our cuts by defunding corporate welfare and special interest groups getting their earmarks into bills. Secondly, we need to stop funding these useless wars and use our military for defensive strategies. Third, tax reform needs to happen, lowering the corporate tax and top tax brackets while closing loopholes, alowing businesses to grow and hire again. Lastly, entitlement reform has to happen. We can’t keep having people get 4 times what they pay into medicare—that just leads to a broke system. The “gang of six” was onto something with their tax reform and we should do a better job of breaking down their proposal before dismissing it.
Also, speaking of reform—perhaps we could stop being such hardheads about which party gets credit, and consider reform proposals—such as Paul Ryan’s plan that he brought to light a few months ago. We all know it will decrease our debt considerably, but democrats won’t consider it becuase they are afraid of the right scoring political points.
There is one candidate in this country who is willing to cut back spending on military AND entitlements while lowering taxes and closing corporate loopholes, and stopping washington from playing favorites in what should be a free market, all while NEVER catering to any special interests OR religion lobbyists. Problem is corporate america would never let him get elected—they have way too much at stake in our twisted, manipulated tax code to let him ruin it.
Bottom line: Get over yourselves, stop the blind partisanship. It isn’t just Washington; it’s YOU. When one side offers a legitimate porposal you just wan tit shot down so they don’t score political points. One person on the other side says something you don’t agree with and then you attempt to discredit everything that comes from that side. How about you learn to be objective and actually fairly evaluate proposals that are on the table?
Philly2Tone
Aug. 8th, 2011 at 10:37 pm
Maddow was wrong, and sadly this report falls intot he same trap she did. The following is from S&P’s official Research Update on the downgrade….
“…the plan (the recently approved compromise agreement on the debt ceiling) envisions only minorpolicy changes on Medicare and little change in other entitlements, the containment of which we and most other independent observers regard as key to long-term financial sustainability”
S&P has made it abundantly clear, in simple unvarnished language, that it is the profligate entitlement spending that has created this current circumstance.
The folly of spending your way out of debt has been debunked, sadly the fringe leftists such as Ms Maddow have a basic inability to accept anything which does not fit their rigid political paradigm.
Shiva (Moderator)
Aug. 8th, 2011 at 10:43 pm
Are you leaving out the Bush tax cuts and the total lack of confidence of the gop to compromise? As well as revenues?
Page 4
“We have changed our assumption on this because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues, a position we believe Congress reinforced by passing the act.”
“[T]he downgrade reflects our view that the effectiveness, stability, and predictability of American policymaking and political institutions have weakened at a time of ongoing fiscal and economic challenges”
“We lowered our long-term rating on the U.S. because we believe that the prolonged controversy over raising the statutory debt ceiling and the related fiscal policy debate indicate that further near-term progress containing the growth in public spending, especially on entitlements, or on reaching an agreement on raising revenues is less likely than we previously assumed and will remain a contentious and fitful process.”
Compared with previous projections, our revised base case scenario now
assumes that the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, due to expire by the end of 2012,
remain in place. We have changed our assumption on this because the majority
of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise
revenues
Philly2Tone
Aug. 9th, 2011 at 6:20 am
You do understand the import of their use of the word “key” correct? Certainly there are several factors which played into the downgrade. They take the time to enumerate all of them. But only one is singled out as being KEY.
Although when you pick and choose sentences which only have the word “Republican” in them, you are either completely missing the point of the report, or being intentionally disingenuous. The S&P Report makes it abundantly clear that both parties were unwilling to compromise.
Nonetheless, that is a secondary factor, as is revenue generation. S&P says quite clearly that the KEY FACTOR is the reining in of entitlement spending.
The left has done a very effective job of sinking our economy under the weight of entitlement spending.
Shiva (Moderator)
Aug. 9th, 2011 at 9:01 am
The left AND the right.
it does not say that the part of the sentence you quote is the key. It says it “is key”. Let’s read the entire sentence and see how you cherry picked words. if something is the key it does not follow the words “in addition”
“Republicans and Democrats have only been able to agree to relatively modest savings on discretionary spending while delegating to the Select Committee decisions on more comprehensive measures. It appears that for now, new revenues have
dropped down on the menu of policy options. In addition, the plan envisions only minor policy changes on Medicare and little change in other entitlements, the containment of which we and most other independent observers regard as key to long-term fiscal sustainability.”
your claim falls flat. Let’s also remember that when you have good employment figures that entitlement spending is not an issue. Don’t try to blame entitlement spending for all of our ills given the fact that the previous administration truly sunk our economy under the weight of unfunded wars and massive unemployment