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Evangelicals Link Teaching Evolution to School Violence
A mother takes her kids to the Creation Museum, a museum based solely on the Bible. There are animatronic dinosaurs drinking water from a creek, and next to the dinosaur is a little girl. Yes, I’m serious. Apparently, it’s posited by these folks that if you believe in this scenario, it will put an end to school violence.
Over the weekend, I watched What’s the Matter with Kansas. The documentary looks at the history of Kansas, from its socialist newspaper and populist politics all the way up to Operation Rescue and fundamentalist Christianity. The mother and the kids were in the documentary, learning about how people walked with dinosaurs.
Working with the Creation Museum at the time of the making of What’s the Matter with Kansas was a PhD in astrophysics named Jason Lisle. Jason received his degree from a secular university, but never really believed in the science of, well, science. He came back to Kansas and began working at the Creation Museum so he could teach people about the true origin of the universe.
Dr. Lisle has an interesting theory about teaching children evolution — it leads to school violence. Now this is something I had never heard before, and I wanted to learn more. I agree that as a society, we are devolving, if you will, back to our more violent nature, but I was pretty sure Dr. Lisle was not musing about actual evolution, since he doesn’t believe in it.
I went on an information hunt, and I lucked into Answers in Genesis.org. I thought about how best to translate religious psycho babble into rational English, and I came up with “copy+paste=less headache for me”. I read the whole article on how teaching evolution creates murderous sociopaths, but I won’t make you do that. Here are a few snippets:
Now, don’t get me wrong. Evolution is NOT the cause of school violence. Sin is of course the root cause. But there is a connection between evolution and school violence. It’s not that “Johnny” wakes up one morning and thinks “Oh-I’m the result of evolution. There’s no God. Everything has evolved by natural causes. Death, bloodshed, violence, and suffering brought me into existence. The struggle for life continues on. Right and wrong is whatever I want to make it if I can get away with it. I think I’ll go and shoot someone today.” No-it doesn’t happen like this. What has occurred is more subtle-much more insidious.
As generation after generation of school students are taken through an education system that today is largely devoid of the knowledge of God, there are consequences that follow.
The more our culture has been told that “science” has shown that the historical basis of the Gospel, the opening chapters of the Bible, are not to be trusted, consequences follow. We have seen the government largely throw out creation, prayer, and Bible readings from public schools. In recent times, students have seen many courts dictate that the Ten Commandments also be thrown out. At the same time, generations of students are being indoctrinated daily to believe that everything in the universe arose by natural processes-nothing supernatural was involved. They are led to believe they are animals in this struggle for survival involving millions of years of death, suffering, and violence.
Okay-got it? Being a secular society and nation, as our Founding Fathers intended, has murdered little Johnny’s soul. Wait! There’s more:
As these new generations of young people are trained in a culture that has lost much of its Christian heritage, and most of the Christian worldview has been removed from the education system-Johnny has no basis but his own instincts, sinful as they are, to determine what he should do in life. With such a meaningless and purposeless outlook on life-no wonder Johnny, given certain background inclinations and pressures, sometimes sees nothing wrong in deciding to shoot his fellow students.
Any child not raised as a Bible thumping, evangelical Christian who believes people rode dinosaurs to work will end up killing people. But, the author writes about certain background inclinations and pressures. I wonder what those could be? I’ve written about religious zealots in the past and I listen to the current crop of Tea…err…Republican candidates, and I bet I can throw out a few “background inclinations” — homosexuality, poverty, liberalism. Easy.
We are raising a young adult who is kind, honest, smart, funny, empathetic and does not cling to hate or violence. He is not a bully, he looks out for his friends and he is an extraordinary young man. Oh. We don’t attend church, we don’t read the Bible religiously (HA!) and we don’t teach him that science is stupid and a big white haired man who lives in the sky created everything in 6 days, then took Saturday off. We’re teaching him to be a good person, and you don’t need the Bible to do that. You need a conscience, a moral compass and common sense. And given the “background inclinations” of quite a few evangelical Christians, I’d say we’re doing a better job than THEIR parents did.
Let’s close with this:
When people say that students need to be taught right and wrong, what they really mean is that these students need to be taught Christian morality. But Christian morality is based on the Christian worldview. And the Christian worldview is based on the Bible being true. The Bible’s truths concerning morality and salvation are dependent on Genesis being literal history. Uh oh! Hasn’t science proved Genesis to be a myth? Doesn’t evolution disprove Genesis? And if the history in Genesis is not true, then there is no basis for any Christian doctrine-no basis for morality-no basis for right and wrong! So much for trying to stop school violence!
I refuse to teach my son what evangelicals call “Christian Morality”. Their version seems drenched in hate and bigotry, ignorance and violence. I have no idea what New Testament they’re reading, but it sure as hell does not resemble anything I’ve ever read.
Want to end school violence? Change the laws that affect certain types of bullying. Make bullying based on bias a hate crime, just as it is in the adult world. Create safe places in schools where kids can go who are either feeling threatened or are doing the threatening. And parents? Yeah YOU. Stop telling your kids the best way to deal with a bully is to beat the crap out of him. Check your kid’s room, look under his or her bed. Talk to them. If your son has 14 semi automatic weapons stockpiled in his closet, it’s not a phase. He’s in desperate trouble. If your son or daughter is giving things away and spending a lot of time shut up in their room, it’s not a phase. Your child is in desperate trouble.
You don’t need to be an evangelical Christian to raise a good kid. In fact, I would bet that it helps not to be.
Image: shawgerdawger.glogster.co…
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52 Responses to Evangelicals Link Teaching Evolution to School Violence
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Tom
Oct. 27th, 2011 at 4:26 pm
I have never feared god, only his followers.
tidux
Oct. 27th, 2011 at 4:40 pm
“But Christian morality is based on the Christian worldview. And the Christian worldview is based on the Bible being true. The Bible’s truths concerning morality and salvation are dependent on Genesis being literal history. Uh oh! Hasn’t science proved Genesis to be a myth? Doesn’t evolution disprove Genesis? And if the history in Genesis is not true, then there is no basis for any Christian doctrine- ”
You have to love it when fundies self-pwn like that. It’s like shooting fish in a barrel.
Eagle Averro
Oct. 29th, 2011 at 8:20 pm
I be pleased if you can go Verse to Verse of Genesis Chapter ONE, and show me how ” Science Has Proven it wrong ” please start at your convenience
TexasJack
Oct. 29th, 2011 at 8:35 pm
If you really need it spelled out for you, you’re too stupid to understand the explanation.
Shiva (Moderator)
Oct. 29th, 2011 at 8:40 pm
You are going to prove that God made Adam and Eve and that started the whole world?
CTL
Nov. 9th, 2011 at 8:18 pm
Would you like links? Try this: goo.gl/HvwNI
SinghX
Oct. 27th, 2011 at 5:36 pm
(Conservative-heart is out today attending a seminar in glossolalia, so I’m filling in..hurry back dude! Ho ha ti ko pi co mo fo ma ha of ah ha one for me, OK?).
So…violence erupts in kids who learn about biology dealing with evolution…well, of course, duh! The science teachers of today were talked about in the bible 2000 years ago! You know, all those false prophets and teachings, stuff like that…
…Why, it’s just like when those hijackers took over those planes on 9/11 and took people places where they didn’t want to go; that’s what evolution does! It hijacks innocent children and takes them to places that they don’t want to go and leads them to violence! Read the fine print! The Dover case proved it!
EmmaLib
Oct. 27th, 2011 at 5:41 pm
Really, does anyone really care what these morons believe? None of what they believe is based in reality. Because of this we must make sure to keep religion separate from our government. Let them lead their own foolish flock with this tom foolery, but keep their religion out of our government.
Straitlaced
Oct. 30th, 2011 at 6:17 pm
The Bible is the chief moral cause of all that is good and the best corrector of all that is evil in human society. . . . All of the miseries and evils which men suffer from vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery and war, proceed from them despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible. The Bible is . . . a book which teaches man his own individual responsibility, his own dignity, and his equality with his fellow man. Founding Fathers had declared the same. Many who new God, but they wouldn’t worhsip him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools. And instead of worshipping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols. So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each others bodies. They traded the truth about God for a lie. They worship the things Go d created instead of the Creator himself. (Romans 1:21-24).Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God…Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarreling, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip.
They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud and boastful. …Worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (In Romans)
*We see all of mankind’s problems, which comes when w e openly reject God’s decrees and commands. Romans 1:18-32 – Explaining the human heart that won’t listen to God’s words – Hardness of Heart.
It gives absolutes and is for us to use to defend the truth not in arrogance, or judgement but is for us to use to defend God’s Word and Not mankind’s religious or personal views.
We are not under the law but under Grace. What does God command us to do? (JOHN 3:16) ***Man makes it difficult and GOD makes it simple.
tidux
Oct. 31st, 2011 at 4:54 pm
That comment is amazingly wrong. Some of the worst atrocities in human history were done in the name of the Bible. Spanish Inquisition, anybody?
WaitWhat?
Nov. 1st, 2011 at 9:42 pm
The reading today will come from 1st Corinthians 13, the very well known passage about love.
The passage really comes to life in a new way when we reflect that God Is Love (1 John 4:16), and in doing so, reflect upon how He expresses with absolute perfection all of the aspects of love that we read about in 1st Corinthians 13 –
so for that reason I’m going to use a special version of the bible, it’s called the New Comprehensive Self Referencing Taking The Words On The Page To Mean What They Actually Say Version of the bible,
in case you’d like to follow along. It’s not a very popular version of the bible just yet because it’s such a controversial approach to take to scripture, but given that “All Scripture is God-breathed”, (2 Timothy 3:16) let’s interpret scripture in the light of scripture, and see what love looks like when it is expressed perfectly by the Lord of love Himself.
Let’s begin, from verse 4.
4Love is patient, as Yahweh proved by waiting patiently until – the very first chance He got to impose a death penalty upon every single human being that would ever exist.
love is kind, Love kindly killed the entire world in a slow drowning death, & later kindly sent wild animals such as lions and bears to rip living people to shreds, and kindly inflicted famine, pestilence, disease and misery upon entire nations for years at a time.
It does not envy, but instead declares that its very name is Jealous.
Jealousy, of course, is completely different from envy or covetousness, they have nothing to do with jealousy at all. Jealousy is of course is a very virtuous and admirable trait that we should all cultivate in ourselves.
it does not boast, but includes references to its power, greatness, glory, righteousness and majesty on practically every page of its book, and demands that we all worship it as the greatest thing imaginable, which is simply just another way of demonstrating that
it is not proud.
It does not dishonor others, not even when it is threatening to smear feces upon people’s faces.
it is not self-seeking, it simply demands to be worshipped by absolutely everybody for being what it unalterably is, and demands that we all focus our minds and hearts upon its will above ours in every aspect of our lives.
it is not easily angered, usually deliberating long and hard before instantly striking people dead the moment they do something wrong,
it keeps no record of wrongs. Well….except in a book, a special book for keeping a record of the wrongs that someone has done, so as to be able to bring them up later, in judgment.
Be sure to each get one of those books, guys, very useful in a marriage.
Love does not delight in evil, yet includes references to the happiness that can be obtained by bathing your feet in your enemies’ blood, or by smashing their infant childrens’ skulls apart on rocks.
but rejoices with the truth, even when it is sending misleading spirits out to delude people, or seeing that factual errors make their way onto the pages of its book.
7It always protects, except when it abandons or attacks,
always trusts, except when it tests,
always hopes, hopes that you’ll suspend your rational disbelief in it so that it doesn’t have to subject you to endless torture, that is;
and
always perseveres. Forever, persevering endlessly and eternally, so as to allow that those who love Him will be allowed to eternally worship at its feet, and that the rest of humankind will be eternally subjected to punishment and torture.
This is the word of the impulsive, hasty, cruel, jealous, boastful, shaming, worship hungry, capricious Lord. (of love.)
(all)Thanks be to murderous, record-keeping, judgmental, misleading, god.
And buddy, if you find out tonight that she’s not a virgin, then we’ll all help you throw rocks at her tomorrow morning until she’s dead. Right guys?
(all) Amen
–Script of 1 Corinthians 13 YouTube video by NonStampCollector
CTL
Nov. 9th, 2011 at 8:23 pm
Do you honestly think that a collection of stories put together by a group of old men teaches a moral code? Do your homework and understand how society and human nature works and has developed over time. I strongly detest Christianity because of personal reasons and experiences, but my moral code is just as “right” as what the Bible says… Except that in my moral code, bigotry, hatred, discrimination, and mass murder are considered WRONG.
Watcher
Oct. 27th, 2011 at 5:51 pm
My upbringing as a kid was the Christian bible. In the ten commandments, I saw some changes made to them. I’ll just bring up two of them for now.
Thou shalt not murder: was changed to, not kill. Two different concepts.
Thou shalt not bear false witness: was changed to, not lie. Again, two different concepts.
Verses, phrases, paragraphs, chapters and even whole books were removed entirely or altered to benefit the powers that be in the government, for the polititicians, and the rich. This covers just about the entire Christian bible. Books that are not in the bible: the book of Thomas, the book of Mary, the book of Judas, etc…
These changes were made to benefit the local powers in government, the rich and the church. Saving souls had absolutely nothing to do with it.
The dominionists, fundamentalists and evangelicals are after power to inflict their sick, twisted, hateful, perverted, bigoted versions on the people. Don’t be fooled, deep down, it’s still about them getting power and cash!!!
Shane Coffey
Oct. 27th, 2011 at 5:57 pm
I honestly couldn’t read anymore of this. It wasn’t because of the author of the post. On the contrary the author is excellent however the post lost me when you mentioned the creationist museum. As soon as I see that I immediately roll my eyes. Does anyone know if this museum receives any public funds?
Shiva (Moderator)
Oct. 27th, 2011 at 6:18 pm
I think it does.
blogs.ssrc.org/tif/2011/0...
I goggled “creationist museum Ky, public funds”
Ingarose
Oct. 27th, 2011 at 7:30 pm
I thought the whole thing was funny, not what the author said, but what that crazy person said about violence and evolution. The sad part is that they take it all very seriously.
Reynardine
Oct. 27th, 2011 at 6:30 pm
If you are raised an atheist, you do NOT believe everything is permitted, because there is no one to permit them. You do NOT believe you bear no responsibility for your acts, because there is no one to fix them. And, on the other hand, you do NOT believe your sins will be forgiven, because there is no one to forgive them. It’s a hell of an education in responsibility, one which Dominionists are sorely lacking.
To those in doubt, treat your planet with the same respect you would accord the masterpiece of a master artist who took billions of years to make it, and behave with the same responsibility you would if you knew there was no one to repair it if you screw it up.
Susan
Oct. 27th, 2011 at 7:42 pm
Excellent – Can I steal that last paragraph?
Reynardine
Oct. 27th, 2011 at 8:58 pm
Yes.
Shiva (Moderator)
Oct. 27th, 2011 at 7:03 pm
What the government has done is push religion back to the parents. To The same parents who claim that the teachers are the problem. The same parents that expect someone else to teach their kids the religion. The same parents who are so weakminded they chose to believe things that they are told that are so far out in right field that a 6 year knows the difference.
School violence comes from the lack of attention from the same parents mentioned above. There have always been bulls, but nothing like today. Parents just do not care.
As for dino’s and peoples, nothing can be said that would make sense. The poor kids have to learn this stuff, then grow up to understand their maw and paw were complete nuts.
DannyEastVillage
Oct. 27th, 2011 at 7:37 pm
People who talk this kind of shit are totally delusional. Any fool reading the bible can see that the folks portrayed in the biblical stories are some of the meanest, most blood-thirsty people imaginable–figures that would fit well into any Quentin Tarantino movie–only worse. And I’m not even talking about the “bad guys;” those are the folks on the side of the god! Click on the link below for some hors d’oeuvres. Or read, for example, the books of Samuel and see how the judges and kings in Israel treated their enemies–or anybody among their own who didn’t act right. Much of the bible is not for the faint of heart.
www.evilbible.com/Murder....
trekie701
Oct. 27th, 2011 at 8:16 pm
Here we go again. I guess if teaching evolution leads to violence, teaching creationism/intelligent design leads to ignorance.
pcinsc
Oct. 27th, 2011 at 8:25 pm
1 Timothy: 6-10 For the love of money is the root of all evil
GREED is EVIL
‘nuf said
Reynardine
Oct. 27th, 2011 at 9:02 pm
The love of power and control is the root of all evil. Money is only its instrument.
Acela Leoni
Oct. 28th, 2011 at 1:00 am
Very well put. I thoroughly enjoyed reading such an eye opener! I love to read articles like this one, that say like it is. Thank you so very much for writing this. I recommend books by Bart Ehrman, there is one titled “Forged” that explain how religion and the bible have been deceiving people for a very long time. I’m very glad that science and other factors are disproving religion. Atheism and Agnosticism are growing very rapidly, it is expected that in a few decades Christianity will not be the ruling religion in the US of A. Anxiously awaiting. :D
Pat D.
Oct. 28th, 2011 at 2:09 am
We had to threaten to get the police involved and bring restraining orders against some fundy kids when my son was in seventh grade. They found out that he believed in evolution and began to bully him horribly. The vice-principal told the kid’s parents and that was the end of the trouble.
DannyEastVillage
Oct. 28th, 2011 at 7:09 am
well, after all, bashing people who believe differently from them is perhaps the principle stock-in-trade of “religious” conservatives. The kids learned it at home.
Angelica
Oct. 29th, 2011 at 8:16 pm
Well, I’m an evangelical Christian, and like others I know, do not believe evolution necessarily conflicts with the Bible. The creation museum and the linking of teaching evolution to violence is silly, but let’s not bash all of Christianity or faith. These sorts of stories always bring out the atheists and Christian-bashers who gleefully proclaim that stupidity on the part of a few followers invalidates the entire faith. Let’s stay focused.
Shiva (Moderator)
Oct. 29th, 2011 at 8:34 pm
In general Angelica, The posts here that refer to Evangelicals or fundamentalists are generally pointed at NAR and other organizations that are really out in the fringe. They are not pointed at what I would referred to as your everyday Christians. To use your example, they are pointed at the people who built the creation Museum and whose primary ministry is gay bashing. for a better example of who they are, look at the people who backed Rick Perry on his prayer meeting in the Stadium prior to his running for president
this is an example of one of the groups these religious Pulsar aimed at: www.politicususa.com/en/b...
tjallen
Oct. 29th, 2011 at 9:15 pm
Non-christian and non-religious societies all have morality and ethical principles. Almost every society on earth developed a principle like the golden rule – Do unto others as you would have them do unto you – where is the name of God in that? This principle of reversibility is secular, not Christian; this is but one of many examples of secular moral principles. It is through a failure of US education that Christians think you cannot have morality without a god.
An even better education would have us look at the early Greeks, Plato, and Aristotle, and understand how we humans created ethics in an attempt to understand living our lives together in a community. Plato, in fact, suggests that the gods could not have created ethics, first because the various gods disagree, but more strongly, because a god free to create ethics from scratch could have made killing the innocent to be good, which is basically unintuitive (Is it good because the gods will it, or do the gods will it because it is good? On the first horn of this dilemma, the gods would be free to make anything good, while on the second, good itself stands on its own, to be discovered by inquisitive humanity.)
Shiva (Moderator)
Oct. 29th, 2011 at 9:21 pm
I agree with you except for one thing. Its not a failure of the US education system, its a success for religious people. School does not teach morality. Parents are supposed to do that.
Mankind survived for several million years without a god who never dropped in till 2000 years ago(one of many). The reason we did was exactly as you state. We were not born to kill but to survive
Straitlaced
Oct. 30th, 2011 at 5:46 pm
Its funny how many comments are ignorant or arrogant of truth.*We see all of mankind’s problems, which comes when w e openly reject God’s decrees and commands. Romans 1:18-32 – Explaining the human heart that won’t listen to God’s words – Hardness of Heart. This covers the entire Human Race vs. 21-23 No Gratitude, Fornication, Immoral, Lude Conduct, Depraved man, Disrespect, Society approves of totally depraved man. The absurdity of evolution, which takes more faith to believe in this absurd philosophy – the religion of HUMANISM – Get rid of the creator and use it out of context, worship the creation not the creator. First it was God who said do unto others… He also said pray for those who persecute you. Its apparent in these comments that these individuals & yourself have never read or studied the Bible. But have listen to hearsay or lies in regards to Bibical principals & truths. A few facts to hopefully open your mind to doctrine and not to idiology or like most repeating what others think the Bible says or teaches mankind. First It gives absolutes and is for us to use to defend the truth not in arrogance, or judgement but is for us to use to defend God’s Word and Not mankind’s religious or personal views.
Scripture tells us that such a condition will be pervasive in the last days: “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables” (2 Timothy 4:3-4).
In almost every book of the New Testament God warns man of false Teachers/Prophets and how to discern those not teaching the truth. Principal – We must subject our conscience to the consistent teaching of the Word of God by one who has the gift of Pastor/Teacher. *You will begin to think in divine standards & you will become relaxed, and nonjudgmental. Some people are so accustom to idols, their conscience is weak.
Many church’s today are not teaching the truth but have turned to emotionalism, humanism, and traditions. For a Pastor/Teacher their purpose solely is to teach (believers) Bible Doctrine. The questions below will remind you of how much or how little you know about God’s Word. “Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.” (Colossians 2:8) And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools. And instead of worshipping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols. So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each others bodies. They traded the truth about God for a lie. They worship the things Go d created instead of the Creator himself. (Romans 1:21-24).
Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God…Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarreling, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip.
They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud and boastful. …Worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too.
We are not under the law but under Grace. What does God command us to do? (JOHN 3:16) ***Man makes it difficult and GOD makes it simple.
Shiva (Moderator)
Oct. 30th, 2011 at 6:23 pm
You mean truth as you see it? Its ok to believe in god, but don’t call those who don’t ignorant else they look at you in the same manner
SinghX
Oct. 31st, 2011 at 12:43 am
…”I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good…Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a biblical duty, we are called on by God to conquer this country. We don’t want equal time. We don’t want pluralism.”
–Randall Terry, The News Sentinel, (Ft. Wayne, IN.), 8/16/93
So, isn’t this Terry Randall a proud, boastful man, full of hate who encourages others to follow him as a biblical duty?
Reynardine
Nov. 2nd, 2011 at 12:03 am
Lude conduct? Prelude, interlude, or postlude?
Ken Ham
Oct. 31st, 2011 at 7:50 pm
Not only is it full of distortions re what AiG teaches (when you read the actual quotes the author has taken from one of our articles, one will see what we teach is very different to what this author claims)–but the author obviously rejects that man is a sinner–and the author also totally inconsistently tries to impose his view of morality on people!
Sarah Jones
Oct. 31st, 2011 at 8:01 pm
good thing you’re not trying to impose your version of morality on people…..
Andrew McCaskill
Nov. 1st, 2011 at 12:30 am
Ken,
Thank you for standing on the Word of God. All I see above is “standard hate speech” from those who cannot refute what AiG and the Bible stands for, so they resort to name calling and four letter words. Keep up the good work. “If God is for you, who can be against you.” Most of these comments above simply confirm the fact that a spiritual war is being waged on the human mind. Thank you for standing on the Truth. Blessings in Christ!
Shiva (Moderator)
Nov. 1st, 2011 at 1:01 am
Best of luck explaining man walking with Dino’s.
WaitWhat?
Nov. 1st, 2011 at 10:34 pm
((((“Most of these comments above simply confirm the fact that a spiritual war is being waged on the human mind.”))))
Makes God and his forces look kind of weak then doesn’t it? If there is some unseen war going on and God hasn’t been able to beat back the evil yet? I was a Christian for 36 years and absolutely convinced that satan was the ruler of this world, but when I stopped to really think about it, it is completely illogical. God is supposed to be omnipotent, so why has this war gone on so long? If there was a God, evil would have been crushed long ago because waiting this long simply isn’t in line with the omnibenevolent quality. He loses “souls” the longer he waits and the more science learns the evidence of evolution (fossils, DNA, etc.) The answer is, unfortunately, that no omnipotent, omnibenevolent, omniscient being exists. However, until you stop being a presuppositionalist and approaching everything as if you “know” God exists, you won’t be able to really question if he does. It’s fear. Fear keeps you from wanting to know and seeking the truth…reality. It isn’t some unseen enemy of an unseen creator that woke people like me up.
It is painful to wake up from the Christian delusion. I know. But once you accept the truth, you will find much love and support as well as a freedom you never experienced before. Best wishes to you and the man who knows that once you have a solid reason to stop believing, all the cards fall down like dominoes, Ken Ham.
Shiva (Moderator)
Nov. 1st, 2011 at 10:44 pm
And there’s an amen
Craig
Oct. 31st, 2011 at 8:34 pm
The ability that you possess to teach, your moral compass, conscience and common sense all come from the God that created you. If evolution were true then you would have no basis to decide what to teach and it really wouldn’t matter in the long run what you taught your child. In fact, how do you even know what you are thinking/teaching is correct? After all, it was just random mutations and a long period of time that created your brain so how do you trust it’s conclusions?
Shiva (Moderator)
Oct. 31st, 2011 at 10:24 pm
That is totally false. Man survived hundreds of thousands of years without a god. I am sorry Craig but nothing you say is factual.
Karen
Oct. 31st, 2011 at 8:41 pm
The author makes this comment: “We’re teaching him to be a good person, and you don’t need the Bible to do that. You need a conscience, a moral compass and common sense.” Where do you get the “moral compass” from? What do you mean by a “good person”? Someone as intollerant as the author of other people? Morality does not just exist independently; it has a source. Many folks believe themselves to be “moral” and they usually mean things they have picked and chosen that originated in the Bible.
My biggest problem with this article and so many others like it is that it is not addressing the points of disagreement with the Creation Museum, but the author simply spews hatred and disrespect at people with whom he disagrees. How can anyone say that is a good argument or a good point? Disrespecting and making fun of people’s beliefs is not an argument!
And btw, evolution is not very scientific; it is not provable and breaks many other scientific principles. I began to doubt it when I learned that so much of what is claimed as “proof” has never been proven. It’s one of those strategies where people say something over and over until people just believe it because the’ve been told it so often. Many “religious” types are the same way–they have no idea what the Bible even says, they just follow their own traditions. Perhaps we should stop clinging so strongly to what others say and investigate for ourselves? And while we are at it, maybe show a little respect?
Shiva (Moderator)
Oct. 31st, 2011 at 10:27 pm
A mortal compass does not come from a god. It comes from your makeup and your upbringing. Morality does not depend on a god or a religion to exist.
Anyone who investigates evolution can easily see it is not only viable but very probably the only answer.
WaitWhat?
Nov. 2nd, 2011 at 10:36 am
Morality and our ability to decide what is “good” comes from our ability to reason. It is why people can judge what is in the bible and decide if it is good or not. Ever hear of the Euthyphro dilemma? Is what is good commanded by God because it is good or is it good because it is commanded by God. If the former is true then God is just a messenger and not the source. If the latter is true then morality is arbitrary and anything God commands from the killing of the children (1 Samuel 15:3) to giving all your money to the poor and becoming a charity case (Matthew 19:21)is good. Try researching Dorsolateral Prefrontal Cortex, Anterior Cingulate Cortex, Ventromedical Prefrontal Cortex. Also you can do a search for and watch a video on YouTube called ‘Morality: From the Heavens or From Nature?’ by Dr. Andy Thomson.
As far as evolution not having proof, I have a feeling that you learned that what is proof is not proof by those like Ken Ham, Kent Hovind and Ray Comfort. All of whom have a poor understanding of the actual evidence of evolution. Even Ken Ham will admit there is evidence of evolution, he just won’t call it that and will only go as far to say it exist within a species. But talk about another species coming about and he’ll fight it tooth and nail. However, we can see species being born in examples like ring species. It is amazing the evidence that does exist. However, this simple fact remains…even if evolution was not true and at some point got thoroughly debunked, it doesn’t prove the existence of a god or that a god is the source of morality. Religion doesn’t win by default because there is no proof to support it’s position.
As far as respect, I find it interesting that Christians are ok with trying to drag educated scientists through the mud and completely discredit them. Mocking, lying, and poisoning the well when it comes to those who accept the truth of evolution but the minute it gets returned to them they cry…”hey, hey…show a little respect here.” Honesty and truth are not disrespectful. It might hurt but it isn’t disrespect. Mocking people’s beliefs sometimes has a worth while purpose in pointing out just how it sounds to other people. So before arguing that other person’s opinion is disrespectful, hate spewing, take a look at your own personal opinions of others and Christianities attacks on atheists, homosexuals, and others all throughout history as well as today. Maybe what you see as disrespectful intolerance is simply a natural response to the religious position of the same forceful tactics.
Edward
Oct. 31st, 2011 at 10:17 pm
of course you can link the teaching of evolution to the rise in school violence, if you study you will also find see that as ice cream sales rise so does violent crime and that the more churches per square mile you have the higher the crime rate. are any of these actually related no.
Pat
Oct. 31st, 2011 at 11:46 pm
A better book to read is “What’s the Matter with California”.
Pat
Oct. 31st, 2011 at 11:59 pm
Jason Lisle is a stupid astrophysicist, completing many rigorous classes of physics, chemistry, math, and logic. He couldn’t possibly be as smart as a blogger on a political website.
Shiva (Moderator)
Nov. 1st, 2011 at 1:02 am
Ive read his stuff. He isnt as smart as a blogger. In fact he is totally bonkers
Ashley Haworth-Roberts (Mr)
Nov. 1st, 2011 at 4:02 am
Ken Ham, Jason Lisle, and their Answers in Genesis colleagues are against large swathes of science. Last Saturday they completely misrepresented a new science paper about the Chicxulub meteorite, falsely claiming that “This bit of Princeton research thus confirms the supposition that the Chicxulub meteorite triggered mass extinction of terrestrial life is insupportable scientifically”: www.answersingenesis.org/... (item 3).
THIS is how Ham teaches ‘science’ to young people. He gets them to recite after him “If there really was a global flood you’d expect to find billions of dead things buried in rock layers all over the Earth!”. As in this recording: www.answersingenesis.org/...
If he was really interested in science, he would also examine the hypothesis that if there really was a global flood only 4,500 years’ ago you’d expect to find vast amounts of buried organic material everywhere which dates as around 4,500 years’ old by radiocarbon dating.
And he wrote THIS on his blog recently: “Yes, biblical truth does trump the fallible ideas of sinful man who has a heart that is “deceitful above all things and desperately wicked”. I make no apology about taking such a stand!” blogs.answersingenesis.or...
He was responding in his blog of 19 October to this article in the New York Times: www.nytimes.com/2011/10/1.... The article stated: “The rejection of science seems to be part of a politically monolithic red-state fundamentalism, textbook evidence of an unyielding ignorance on the part of the religious. As one fundamentalist slogan puts it, “The Bible says it, I believe it, that settles it.” But evangelical Christianity need not be defined by the simplistic theology, cultural isolationism and stubborn anti-intellectualism that most of the Republican candidates have embraced”. And then: “Mr. Ham built his organization, Answers in Genesis, on the premise that biblical truth trumps all other knowledge. His Creation Museum, in Petersburg, Ky., contrasts “God’s Word,” timeless and eternal, with the fleeting notions of “human reason.” This is how he knows that the earth is 10,000 years old, that humans and dinosaurs lived together, and that women are subordinate to men. Evangelicals who disagree, like Francis S. Collins, the director of the National Institutes of Health, are excoriated on the group’s Web site. (In a recent blog post, Mr. Ham called us “wolves” in sheep’s clothing, masquerading as Christians while secretly trying to destroy faith in the Bible)”.
When I contact Answers in Genesis by email about inaccuracies on their website, they NEVER discuss with me the issues raised.
The ‘science’ put forward by Mr Ham and his colleagues is almost entirely young Earth creationist apologetics,
Mr A Haworth-Roberts
UK
Reynardine
Nov. 3rd, 2011 at 11:10 am
The number and kind of troglodyte commentaries trying to crack us down over evolution indicate they don’t believe in it because they never experienced it.