Go to Admin » Appearance » Widgets » and move Gabfire Widget: Social into that MastheadOverlay zone
Ted Nugent, the Civil War, and the GOP’s Anti-Constitutional Fantasies
By: Hrafnkell HaraldssonJul. 9th, 2012more from Hrafnkell Haraldsson

The Tenth Amendment Center makes this clear:
A tenther can be a communist, a liberal, a conservative, a social conservative, or a libertarian. A tenther simply embraces the idea that everyone shouldn’t live under the same political authority. This allows different political positions to exist under the banner of tentherism, as long as each ideological position adheres to the idea that political authority is limited to a small geographic area within the larger society.
Gosh, the only problem, Mr. Tenther, is that the U.S. Constitution, ratified by each state, puts all states under the same political authority of the Federal government it establishes. That doesn’t seem too complicated to me.
But, apparently, it is, at least for conservatives, who care more about some mythical America that never existed than the America we’ve got. We have states acting like the South had won the Civil War, not lost it. And we’ve got conservatives openly saying the South should have won. That’s what Ted Nugent thinks as well, surprising nobody in his July 5 op-ed in the Washington Times. Railing against Justice Roberts’ “traitor vote” he said:
Because our legislative, judicial and executive branches of government hold the 10th Amendment in contempt, I’m beginning to wonder if it would have been best had the South won the Civil War. Our Founding Fathers’ concept of limited government is dead.
This from a rather famous guy who has endorsed Mitt Romney, from a guy who by all accounts loves his 10mm but not the U.S. Constitution and certainly not the Federal government. Now of course, we can’t hold Romney accountable for the bizarre opinions of his supporters but you would certainly like to see Romney jump up to a microphone and denounce this silly notion. As Nick Wing writes over at HuffPo:
In the wake of the rocker’s notorious outburst against Obama and Democrats this April, Romney’s camp was forced to clarify that it hadn’t expressed direct support or solicited Nugent’s endorsement, contrary to the singer’s claims. But Romney remained unwilling to condemn Nugent any further, as the campaign simplymaintained that the presumptive GOP presidential candidate “believes everyone needs to be civil.”
People should be sane too, but that doesn’t stop Ted. Ted seems to gloss over entirely that the war was about slavery; that states rights came into it only because of slavery, because the South saw its future horizons limited due to a more populous North with more votes. The states right in question had to do with the right to own slaves. Folks in the North said “you don’t have that right” and Southern business owners (the plantation culture) said, “It’s out economic livelihood!”
Well, we all know economic livelihood for corporations trumps individual human rights, That old song and dance ain’t never gonna change.
Ted Nugent apparently thinks that all those slaves would be better off too, their descendents still slaves today, in accordance with the pseudo-wisdom of the infamous “Marriage Vow” — “A Declaration of Dependence upon Marriage and Family,” sponsored by the Family Leader, an Iowa-based conservative organization.
Some conservatives say slavery would have eventually died out on its own but there is no evidence that this was happening in the mid-1800s. There is no way of knowing that it would have happened if the war had not been fought. After all, one of slavery’s biggest defenders was the bloc of conservative Southern Christians waving Bibles around and we still have those today who claim biblical slavery is permissible. Slavery will always have its defenders. There is a reason human trafficking has become such a scourage.
What is going on in the Republican mind that the party of Lincoln thinks we’d all be better off if Lincoln had lost? Of course, we’ve got Ron Paul trashing Lincoln back in 2010, Ron Paul the guy who likes to run for President of the United States on a Republican ticket.
The ultimate enemy has become, as it once was, the Federal government. Nugent has coined his own term for them: Fedzillacrats. He claims a swollen federal government proves that “Our Founding Fathers’ concept of limited government is dead” but ignores the fears of some for those same founders of the excesses of democracy, that local legislatures could be as tyrannical as distant kings.
The U.S. Constitution was not designed as “limited government” – it replaced limited government – the Articles of Confederation. It gave more power to the federal government for a simple reason – it was needed. Even in the 18th century it was seen that that Articles of Confederation were entirely inadequate. What did not work in the 18th century is certainly not going to work today, with each state functioning as a quasi-independent nation with its own immigration and trade policies, making its own treaties and raising its own private armies. We would no longer be states united by a common purpose. If that would have been the idea we would never had had our national motto: Out of many, one.
What Ted Nugent is actually suggesting is setting fire to the words of the Founding Fathers, shredding the Constitution and making a mockery of their labors. But cherry-picked history has long been a favorite of Republicans and Nugent is certainly in keeping with Bartonism – the re-writing events of the past to make them more congenial to your purposes today.
It seems to matter little to the Nugent-set that reality is not on their side any more than history is. Back in 2011 a very conservative Justice Antonin Scalia swatted aside tentherism’s pretensions quite handily, pointing out that complaints like Nugent’s are baseless, that Article I of the Constitution assigns to Congress the authority to “to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States” – that “general welfare” including all the things Republicans hate most – Social Security, Medicare, Obamacare, even disaster relief.
It’s not easy to see how those things could seen to not adhere to the idea of the general welfare. The well-armed Nugent isn’t concerning himself with the general welfare, demonstrably caring nothing for it or for the Constitution which granted Congress those powers and it is abundantly clear he does not think out the consequences of his nonsensical tirades.
Sure, some rich white folks might be just as happy the South had won – our first black president would be a servant in the White House rather than its occupant – and folks who got uppity notions, including women, could be slapped down and then some.
But the Constitution isn’t only about rich white folks, as Abraham Lincoln recognized. It’s about all folks. All Americans. In all fifty states. And for the vast majority of Americans, a Southern victory would have been a disaster of unimaginable horror and hardship.
Because nobody wants to live in a place where the draft-dodging pedophile Ted Nugents of the world can back up their crazy tirades with a 10mm.
Image from AmmoLand
Mitt Romney's Ted Nugent problems are much worse than the rocker's threats against President Obama. Romn ...
Only in the Republican Party could a draft dodging pedophile like Ted Nugent be held up as a patriot by ...
House Republican Steven Stockman is helping to rebrand his party by announcing today that admitted pedop ...
Once upon a time not so long ago, Ted Nugent said that if President Barack Obama was re-elected and Mitt ...
Days after Ted Nugent threatened violence and launched a racist attack against the president, CNN reward ...
Shiva (Moderator)
Jul. 9th, 2012 at 8:28 am
the Constitution has absolutely nothing to do with limited government. And you are exactly right that the current Constitution we have replaced limited government. And even that was not intended as limited government.
All of these cries from the teabags, the constitutionalists, and the complete idiots like Nugent are sucking up the wrong maple syrup tree. Ron Paul and his limited government crap is just as scary as Ted Nugent’s crap is.
The Constitution was never meant for a second as a pathway to limited government. that is not to say that limited government is good or bad, but people are trying to make it out to be something that it isn’t
robert chapman
Jul. 10th, 2012 at 8:37 am
In framing the US Constitution, the Revolutionary Generation sought to establish governmental institutions that protected property, regulated and controlled mob actions, and protected a wide scope of personal and civil liberties.
They most definitely sought limited government in the sense that their property, their speech, their movements would not be subject to arbitrary governmental intrusions.
Ted Nugent and tenthers appear to share the above stated views on the limitations on government, as do most others.
It is rather perplexing that the tenthers include communists and others with totalitarian views in their numbers and arouses suspicion that the tenthers support arbitrary government of the sort the framers of the Constitution opposed.
As stated in the article, a key tenet of tenther philosophy is that we should not all fall under the same political jurisdiction.
According to the tenthers, this diversity of government fosters liberty and rational goverance.
But does it? If the tenther philosophy were true, the USA which has a federal system in which the central government has an increasingly powerful role should be less free, on average, than the world beyond on borders which has an amazing and highly diverse plethora of different governmental institutions.
As it is clear that the most governmentally diverse parts of the world, the less developed countries enjoy consideably less freedom and suffer from more capricious government than the more hoghly centralized and less diverse democracies, we must conclude that the main tenther tenet is fatally flawed.
Good government flows from broad popular engagement with the institutional government. To the extent that citizens can interact with and get results from Tallahassee, Trenton, Reno and Austin,and other state governments, these institutions can make positive contributions to good goverance.
But our economics, our ecology, our security concerns do not fit themselves conveniently within the little, imaginery, political boxes we call states.
Even for those metropolitan areas, such as Atlanta that fall entirely within the confines of one state, the high level of diversity among the communities in the metro area make the state government the servant of some and an oppositional drag on others. The political power of the Atlanta suburbs nearly always relegates the inner city to second class status.
Formation of broad national coalitions has enhanced the political and economic power of inner cities such as Atlanta, Detroit, Cleveland, and others. The limits to their power and development come from the limits of their coalition building skill and imagination.
But the fact remains that a national coalition among cities is far more powerful and produces better results than a city vs. suburbs state political battle.
At the state level, the issues are too raw, the emotions too high, and the rhetoric too intemperate for much to be accomplished. At the national level there is more likelihood that issues can discussed, analyzed and acted upon in a more abstract and effective manner.
In many instances this ability to objectively deal with things is why the executive departmens have replaced the Congress, and particularly the House as the real government.
Someone like Ted Nugent, a torch singer whose occupation is to rouse emotions and get people excited would naturally tend to favor the emotional and confrontational stage that state government provides.
But teachers, police officers, engineers, bankers and business people who deal with the day to day and try to get things done, are less likely to appreciate the gridlock, inefficacy and limitations the tenthers are trying to foist upon us.
Shiva (Moderator)
Jul. 10th, 2012 at 9:14 am
“They most definitely sought limited government in the sense that their property, their speech, their movements would not be subject to arbitrary governmental intrusions.”
One might note that the states have done more to erode those rights than the Fed has.
For instance the state or country can take your property is a developer wants it
A Walkaway
Jul. 10th, 2012 at 10:19 am
“They most definitely sought limited government in the sense that their property, their speech, their movements would not be subject to arbitrary governmental intrusions.”
They didn’t want intrusions into those liberties for themselves, but they sure wanted them for the poor and minorities. All you have to do is look at the sorts of laws that were passed to see that fact. It’s only as people grew and evolved in their understanding of freedom and civil rights that people started understanding that retaining those rights for rich white men alone was wrong.
I would also say that only the Federal government through it’s interventions have protected those rights for minorities, and even today the Libertarians/Republicans/Tea Party and other assorted ilk want our rights taken back. That, in fact, is part of what brought about the rise of the Religious Right – the founders didn’t want the US government telling them they couldn’t discriminate. Therefore, I strongly distrust anyone who opposes the US government or tries to reduce its size, because the very things they want cut are the very protections of the freedoms I have a right to.
Christopher
Jul. 9th, 2012 at 9:40 am
Of course, there are liberals who sometimes wonder whether we should have let the South go when we had the chance!
Hrafnkell Haraldsson
Jul. 9th, 2012 at 10:20 am
I admit to indulging in those fantasies myself
Gerry
Jul. 9th, 2012 at 2:15 pm
Can we kick them out or is it too late?
Cthulhu
Jul. 11th, 2012 at 11:00 am
Given the current state of Idiocy in the South, I think we would do well to “encourage” Texas and Arizona, AT LEAST to secede and stay the hell gone. Anyone who agrees with idiots like Nugent would be encouraged to re-locate and stop poisoning our gene pool.
A Walkaway
Jul. 9th, 2012 at 11:04 am
I’m reminded about a person I used to know, who always had a Confederate battle flag displayed at his home and a huge one flying from his truck. He always maintained “It’s heritage, not hate!” and insisted that the Civil War was about states rights and an over-reaching Federal Government.
I remember quite clearly when he took the flags down. He’d just learned from a reliable source that towards the latter half of the Civil war, it was common for Confederate soldiers to die cursing the Confederacy. He learned that they were forced to fight… that the rules were changed in the war and the ordinary folk came to realize what the war was really about – keeping the southern rich slave owners rich and continuing slavery.
The flags were put in the garbage. He’d been taught all of his life that the Civil war was about “States Rights” and that if he heard otherwise, it was “Yankee lies”. He learned otherwise.
I hear a lot of the pro-South crap down here. But then, I’m told that when Kennedy was assassinated, many white school kids in this county cheered when they got the news (in class).
Hrafnkell Haraldsson
Jul. 9th, 2012 at 11:22 am
I have a Confederate battle flag myself (in a box somewhere); also a U.S. Cavalry swallowtail guidon of the sort carried at the Little Bighorn (the only flag I’ve ever had on my office wall). I was always a history buff before I went to college and studied history.
I remember with my fellow wargame geeks hanging a Japanese rising sun battle flag on the wall while we fought out the Battle of the Coral Sea in the game Flat Top (I was the Japanese and I did defeat the American carrier force and bomb Port Moresby). Inspiration, you see.
I can see various uses for historical flags; I think it’s all in what you do with them, but waving rebel flags around and pretending you’re a patriot makes no sense at all, nor more than does being a Marine and waving an SS rune flag around in Afghanistan.
A Walkaway
Jul. 9th, 2012 at 11:56 am
(Laugh) Well, I think he started the path towards being more liberal when that occurred. (It was much like when I learned I’d been lied to about getting aid when I could no longer run my business. A decade later and I’m about as far left as one can get.)
Brian Daniels
Jul. 9th, 2012 at 11:27 am
I discovered a typo early in the article. Please correct immediately. The phrase “…Ted Nugent thinks…” is obviously incorrect.
victoria_29
Jul. 9th, 2012 at 12:17 pm
If the north had of let the south “go” (FYI the south choose to leave) my guess is that up north things would not be a lot different today. That it would still be liberal, still be jobless, still be being killed by unions, still have multiple cities like Detroit and so on. You can always tell an uneducated so called writer, they have not done any historical research, are devoid of facts & have swallowed hook line and sinker all the BS sold them by liberal loon union teacher that also had no clue. The Civil War was not about slavery anymore than the next one will be (this one will be settled at ballot box in Nov)it was a conflict between 2 very different societies, then as now the north was attempting to make the south pay taxes. Another FYI is that 99.9% of all slave traders were from the NORTH, not the south. Hate to break that bit of news to you. And yes while slavery was wrong in 1861 I don’t notice liberals feeling bad about keeping blacks enslaved today.
Reynardine
Jul. 9th, 2012 at 12:22 pm
Victoria, if you don’t stop it, it’ll give you pimples.
A Walkaway
Jul. 9th, 2012 at 12:28 pm
Victoria, if you’re trying to be another “Conservative Heart”, you need to learn to be a better writer and try to be even less logical.
Hrafnkell Haraldsson
Jul. 9th, 2012 at 12:32 pm
The Civil War was not about slavery? You better go back and review your history. The seeds of the Civil War were lain by the time of the Constitutional Convention and it was all about slavery.
Katherine Hamilton
Jul. 9th, 2012 at 1:51 pm
Do you teach history in Alabama, by any chance?
KatzKids
Jul. 10th, 2012 at 5:21 am
Good one Victoria. What a exemplary imitation of a tea bagging loon, even going beyond some of them in your perfectly perfect satire of a non-educated, completely irrational being. Thanks for the laugh.
Reynardine
Jul. 9th, 2012 at 12:19 pm
I humbly submit that if we had fallen apart into a bunch of little republics, as all these secesh types seem to want, some would have been retaken by Britain, some would have been appropriated by France, Florida (which then ran to the left bank of the Mississippi) would have remained Spanish, Alaska, Russian, and we would have been a very brief footnote in history; furthermore, if any of these “independent sovereign states” succeed in seceding now, they’re likely to find all their bosses speak Chinese. Why not? The real tycoon/rulers already offshored themselves there long ago.
Dan Lewis
Jul. 9th, 2012 at 3:46 pm
Real men can face the actual facts and change their minds about something. Nugent can’t.
Poor little Teddy needs to grow up and quit living in his little custom fairyland. Even a 5 year old can pull a trigger.
Cthulhu
Jul. 11th, 2012 at 10:57 am
Nugent you say? As if his Chickenhawk Feces Fest and admitted pedophilia wasn’t enough…submitted for your consideration:
And with that, his mouth went off like it was a race.
“Oh, yeah. I train SEALS all the time.”
“I deployed with SEALs to Fallujah and showed them how I could shoot terrorists over 2,000 yards away with a .408 Cheytac (because that’s what they use, of course).”
“I actually killed some badguys there….so, you know. I got your back here.”
parkedpics.blogspot.com/2...
Lisa Meeks
Jul. 12th, 2012 at 12:18 pm
Don’t give up on all of us in the south. I live in GA, work at a large retail store, and see a cross-section of this community daily. From my observations, that while racism still exists here, it seems to be on the decline and seen more in people in the over 60 age range. The fact that there is an air force base here and brought diverse people from all over the United States has helped too. I’ve lived here all my life (almost 50 years) and definitely see changes from when I was a child and from even 10 years ago. Gives me hope.