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Wisconsin Senate Republicans Ignore Warning That They Are Breaking Law
By: Sarah JonesMar. 10th, 2011more from Sarah Jones
On MSNBC’s The Ed Show host Ed Schultz talked with Democratic lawmakers last night right after the Wisconsin senate Republicans rammed through Walker’s union busting bill 18-1 to strip Wisconsin public employees of their collective bargaining rights. Republicans did so in spite of being warned by Democratic assemblyman Minority Leader Peter Barka that they were violating the state’s open meeting law. Democratic members of the state assembly including Minority Leader Barka joined Ed to discuss the legality of Republicans’ power grab.
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Here is Representative Barca attempting to stop them:
BARCA: The opening meetings laws must be con screwed in favor of the fullness and –
REPUBLICAN CHAIRMAN: Mr. Barca– Representative Barca.
REPUBLICAN: Call roll.
BARCA: No, no, listen. If there’s any doubt as to whether good cause exists, the governmental body should provide 24 hours’ notice. This is clearly a violation of the open meetings law. Now, if you shut the people down, it is improper to move forward with the open meetings law. You’re not allowing it. And that is why. Mr. chairman, this is a violation of law. This is not just a rule, it is the law. There must be –
REPUBLICAN CHARIMAN: You’re wrong.
BARCA: No, Mr. Chairman, this is a violation of the open meetings law. It requires 24 — at least 24 hours’ notice. Excuse me.
Naturally, the Republicans completely ignored Barca. The Republicans were warned and still rode rough shod over the Democratic assemblyman Minority Leader’s warnings. It’s important to note this, as this will be put in front of the Attorney General, a Republican, today. The Wisconsin DOJ website claims to be committed to upholding the open meeting law, stating, “The Attorney General and the Department of Justice continue to advocate for open government. Wisconsin’s Open Meetings Law, enacted in 1976, attempts to promote openness in government.”
The open meetings law typically requires24 hour notice be given.The two most basic requirements of the open meetings law are that a governmental body:
(1) Give advance public notice of each of its meetings, and
(2) Conduct all of its business in open session, unless an exemption to the open session requirement applies.
In determining whether open meeting laws were violated, the judge balances the public’s right to information and the government’s need to efficiently conduct its business. “This reasonableness standard “requires a case-specific analysis.” In making that determination, the factors to be considered include: “[1] the burden of providing more detailed notice, [2] whether the subject is of particular public interest, and [3] whether it involves non-routine action that the public would be unlikely to anticipate.”
The Republicans rushed the conference committee during which they stripped everything from the bill but collective bargaining and then the committee immediately sent the bill to the Senate, where it was passed without debate. This occurred after a day in which all reports were that both sides were negotiating. Senate Republican Grothman talked to Isthmus’ The Daily Page about the hasty vote last night and admitted that he knew it was a controversial vote, but claims it was appropriate:
The West Bend conservative was adamant that the bizarre process by which the bill was passed tonight, which befuddled Democrats and press alike, was an appropriate conclusion to weeks of stalemate. He said he and his Senate colleagues have been advised not to go to the Capitol tomorrow, for safety’s sake. Grothman acknowledges that many of his colleagues could face serious recall campaigns. “It’s a very scary thing,” he says. “I’m aware of the fact that it was a very controversial vote.”
Ed had on members of the Democratic assembly, state Representatives Mark Pachen and Cory Mason as well as Minority Leader Barca to discuss the implications of the Senate Republicans power grab. Ed asked Minority Leader Barca how sure he was that the law was violated. Barca replied, “Well, we’re very confident, Ed. The law is very clear, and in fact, our current Republican Attorney General, Van Hallon, issued a memo defining it. We will be seeking legal recourse as early as tomorrow morning. and we are looking at every single option. But this law cannot stand.”
Ed asked if Barka was confident that the Republican AG would rule in favor of the law. Barka went on to explain, “We’ll find out tomorrow morning. I would hope so. he’s taken an oath of office to uphold the law, regardless of whether it’s Democrat or Republican. It’s the people of Wisconsin’s interests that are at stake here. …. If he does not, he is not the only person authorized to challenge the open meetings law. And we will be prepared if he’s not willing to carry forward his responsibilities.”
Ed moved on to ask Mark Pachen what he felt would be the results of the Republicans passing the bill through without notice. Pachen replied that he is sure the Senate will flip Democratic, “Well, I think the move tonight, and what’s happened in the culmination of the last three weeks has guaranteed that the senate is going to flip to Democratic. I have no question that these recalls are going to happen. They’re going to be successful. And when you treat state government like a third world junta, and that’s what the Governor and Republicans have done, then you’ll have the people coming back and I think you’re going to see a lot of the senators getting recalled and we’re going to have a Democratic senate to finally provide a check and balance.”
Barca closed by explaining that the people of Wisconsin were outraged, “Well, people are clearly outraged. Tonight the citizens of Wisconsin were cheated out of their democracy. There was a clear violation of the law. And we believe that it will not stand… They’ve proved tonight that it had nothing to do with the fiscal policy of the state, because they took out the key stone of that bill which was a bonding that the governor said he needed in order to not lay off workers. So the charade is up. The people of Wisconsin were cheated.”
The very fact that Gov. Scott Walker and Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald, R-Juneau pushed this bill through after stripping it of all fiscal content was a huge reversal from their claims that they needed to strip unions of their collective bargaining rights in order to “balance the budget”. By passing the bill without a quorum, they admitted that getting rid of collective bargaining was their goal, and Walker’s bill had nothing to do with the budget. But even this move is questionable, as the new bill kills collective bargaining and but it also increases employee payments in pension and health benefits, a change which strikes me as fiscal in nature and therefore requiring a quorum of 20 senators. Republicans literally fled the room after the vote.
If senate Republicans violated the open meeting law, they did so after being read the law and warned by Democratic Minority Leader Barka, and it was all captured on tape. Today, Attorney General Van Hollen will determine if a stay will be granted on Walker’s union busting bill based on a violation by the Wisconsin senate Republicans of the state open meeting law. As Barca pointed out, the open meetings law is not a senate rule, but a law and therefore a serious charge against the Wisconsin Republicans.
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Richard
Mar. 10th, 2011 at 10:36 am
Wheres the bowl of popcorn for this show?
boil
Mar. 10th, 2011 at 11:05 am
ed was on fire last nite. a voice in the wilderness, as no cable or so called MSM is covering this. this is this generations call to band together, as the GOP’s and the oligarchs are seeking to remove any rights that they will have or not have, in the future….. this generation needs to read about the haymarket riots in chicago, long ago, that was the seed for the labor movement, as i hope this situation in madison will be….
this is why we have mayday!
GO CHEESEHEADS!
jabberwolf
Mar. 10th, 2011 at 11:22 am
I love how you might only produce HALF of the law.
There was special cause and it was done over 2 hours.
THEY DID SO LEGALLY!! Get it?!
Lets not cherry pick and produce the entire bit.
“The provision in Wis. Stat. § 19.84(3) requires that every public notice of a meeting be given at least
twenty-four hours in advance of the meeting, unless “for good cause” such notice is “impossible or impractical.”
If “good cause” exists, the notice should be given as soon as possible and must be given at least two hours in
advance of the meeting. Wis. Stat. § 19.84(3).”
If there was an doubt if good cause existed – they should postpone it for 24 hours. 18 out of the 19 voting thought none existed. Had the cowardly democrats been back, they chould at least have upheld that statute.
Noce try but the extortionists ( err I mean unions) still lose!
Sarah Jones
Mar. 10th, 2011 at 12:27 pm
Sorry, they are saying senate rule overrides state law and you are free to click on the links and read the entire open meetings law as I did.
Chris
Mar. 10th, 2011 at 4:03 pm
Are you saying that the senate rule does not override state law? Or more accurately, that the state law in question does not defer to “Legislature, senate and assembly” rules in areas of conflict?
Sarah Jones
Mar. 10th, 2011 at 4:08 pm
It sounds like you are suggesting that you believe that a senate rule overrides law. I’d look forward to hearing that argument in court, along with how they passed fiscal matters like pension cuts without a quorum. I’m also not convinced, based on what took place during the meeting, that the rule they cited is even appropriate. Arguments can be made, and will be made, as they are claiming it wasn’t a matter that required notice, but as you will see in the DOJ site, that is up to the judge to determine.
Karen
Mar. 10th, 2011 at 5:12 pm
State law cannot remove rights protected by Federal Law.
that’s how YOU are protected from ME decided to outlaw your diversive FASCIST drivel.
Karen
Mar. 10th, 2011 at 5:13 pm
Sarah – sock puppets don’t read
Sarah Jones
Mar. 10th, 2011 at 6:11 pm
Yes, I supposed my all caps was lost in the wind of talking points.
Anne
Mar. 10th, 2011 at 11:40 am
Scott Walker, Rick Snyder, and others are full of themselves since they won the 2010 elections. That blinds them to the fact that they are sowing the seeds for their own political demise. If they think that people are going to accept their browbeating and tyranny by turning the other cheek, they have made a huge error in judgment. There are fools who are not wealthy by any means cheering them on, in total denial of the fact that the Koch brothers and their ilk don’t care about them. I understand that the vote to end collective bargaining was 18-1, with only Republicans voting. I wonder who the holdout was.
ROCnPhilly
Mar. 10th, 2011 at 12:06 pm
There was no holdout. The one voting against was a democrat whose hideout must have been relatively close by.
Eykis
Mar. 10th, 2011 at 12:11 pm
ROC,
Why don’t you go back Teh Blazh and/or FauxNotion’s Hatesite? We don’t want your LIES…..
I thoroughly enjoyed the Democratic Senator last night who actually called Walker a LIAR. That is what all of the members of the Democratic Party need to do – no matter what level of government they serve. CALL THEM LIARS UNTIL THEY QUIT LYING.
Eykis
Mar. 10th, 2011 at 12:12 pm
ROC,
Why don’t you go back Teh Blazh and/or FauxNotion’s Hatesite? We don’t need your LIES…..
I thoroughly enjoyed the Democratic Senator last night who actually called Walker a LIAR. That is what all of the members of the Democratic Party need to do – no matter what level of government they serve. CALL THEM LIARS UNTIL THEY QUIT LYING.
ROCnPhilly
Mar. 10th, 2011 at 12:26 pm
Oops. Eykis is correct. It was all republicans in on the vote. I stand corrected.
I suppose it was just too much to ask of a democrat coward to show up for work. Now that they’re back, the republicans should initiate a quorum call and immediately vote on the original bill, thereby making all the current hubbub about the modified bill’s legality irrelevant.
Sarah Jones
Mar. 10th, 2011 at 12:36 pm
Yes, “cowards” are those firefighters and police out there fighting for their brothers and sisters — so glad you are hating on them like they deserve! Please send a list of people who “deserve” pay. Would you say bank CEOs “deserve” their pay? Just guessing here.
And by the way, the issue isn’t pay. You do realize that, since this is like the 5th time I’ve corrected you on this matter. It’s about a global, UN protected and state constitutionally protected right to collective bargaining.
Chris
Mar. 10th, 2011 at 4:13 pm
I’m confused how someone referring to democrat senators who fled the state as cowards is in any way referring to firefighters and police. As for whether bank CEOs deserve their pay, why don’t we cut the crap and discuss union members versus union leaders. First off, it’d be nice if unions weren’t being run as for-profit, with the only difference being that they only make money dependent on what the members make. So in turn the union leadership fights to increase wages, only so it can increase its own profits. President of AFSCME is making $500M/year. Do they deserve that? Hell no. Will they give any of it up for the members of said union? of course not.
No union should be led by any individual not a member of that union, this is my opinion. And union leadership positions should not be paid, and even if compensation is deemed relevant to that position, it should only be as a part time job with an hourly wage, as the persons in those positions should already be employed and members of the union. This again is how I perceive the way unions /should/ be run, rather than by people who are not even eligible for membership in the unions, and they should not have salaries that rival those of our governmental offices, as they do not do nearly the same level of work. I mean, we’re talking about a union president making more than the nation’s president. That’s outrageous, but there’s not outcry for them to take a pay cut for some reason. Do people not care because they’re part of a union?
Something to contemplate.
However, the point does also stand that senators are elected to vote on matters of the state, and half of the senators of this state have been neglecting to do that. What would happen if you refused to do something at work because you thought it was wrong? What would happen if you didn’t show up to work for two weeks because you thought it was wrong? Would YOU still be employed? Why do we treat these senators any differently than we would expect ourselves to be treated in the same situation?
Sarah Jones
Mar. 10th, 2011 at 4:25 pm
The real question is what would happen if a power hungry governor who was already guilty of violating union contracts as county board member began breaking law as soon as he was elected and he got his legislators to do the same — what would you do?
You keep referring to the state constitution, so I assume you realize that the Republicans violated the state constitution with this bill way back three weeks ago. But it seems like you are thinking the Dems should go along with that.
As for your fiscal issues, there would be no fiscal crisis if Walker hadn’t given the Koch brothers et al a tax break. He came into a surplus. Please explain why this choice of his is anyone’s problem but his.
And lastly, the UNIONS ALREADY CONCEDED ALL THE FINANCIAL REQUESTS. Three weeks ago. I don’t know why anyone would still be nattering on about budget issues when that is not the point. Why are you talking about salaries? It sounds like you resent other people making money — which again, is your problem.
You called them cowards for standing up for firefighters and police. I call that bravery. You need to stop worrying about how much money a police officer makes and start worrying about why republicans don’t want to collect revenue and how they expect to balance any budget like that.
Karen
Mar. 10th, 2011 at 5:09 pm
talk about real people Chris – and real peoples lives.
don’t make up imaginary angels to dance on a pin. there’s no way that can ever attacked or defended.
so it must be that you are deliberatly trying to obscure certain thoughts from yourself.
those democratic senators work for THEIR CONSTITUENTS. THE PEOPLE who elected them with their INDIVIDUAL VOTES.
They ARE doing their job and they are completely LEGAL.
YOU are advocating in support of a system that puts the STATE and BUSINESS over the needs of individual peoples LIVES.
YOU ARE A FASCIST.
Eykis
Mar. 10th, 2011 at 11:50 am
Anne,
The holdout Rethug was Schuler – he was always the one holdout.
This vote will be tossed and Walker will be recalled next year. My guess is the people will have all the signatures they need to recall the 8 Rethugs by next week.
Our new Rethug gov here in Tennessee is sweating big-time. The Teabaggers in the Leg here were told by the gov to “tone it down” and the protesters here in Nashville are growing in numbers by the hour.
All of the Teabaggers who were elected act like they are Kings and people are regretting their votes or regretting the fact they did not vote.
The younger generation has a cause – their FUTURE – they need to get out in MASS and protest for their RIGHTS before they end up with none.
The younger generation also is the generation that OWES tons of money on their student loans and cannot pay them with jobs flipping burgers at 20 hours a week, less than minimum wage.
Young People, TAKE YOUR FUTURE BACK – that is HOW the Viet Nam war was ended, the draft ended, the VOTING AGE lowered.
DO IT TODAY, SAVE AMERICA FOR YOUR FUTURE.
Anne
Mar. 10th, 2011 at 12:17 pm
Walker, Rick Snyder of Michigan, and Rick Scott of Florida are only the most visible faces of the regressive Tea Partiers. They cannot be gone soon enough, as they will do considerable damage while they are in power. I only hope that those who either didn’t vote at all or voted for these clowns in desperation or a fit of pique against the Democrats realize now that they cut off their noses to spite their faces. I am glad the Tennessee governor is sweating, because it shows that he understands on some level that the Tea Partiers are quickly wearing out their welcome.
Mark H.
Mar. 21st, 2011 at 12:49 pm
Donna,
Thank you for contributing. The political leanings of the jurists are not an issue, the issue is personality and conduct. The experience of professionals and their reputation within the legal community is an import source of information that the public rarely has access too.
The legal system, unlike many other pursuits, does not require team building – judges are fairly independent mini-mullahs; assholes don’t lose their jobs because of their job personality or conduct.
It is a shame that some of the jurists are venal and adversarial to their peers. But what can be done?