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Yes, Anders Breivik and Our Fundamentalists ARE Christians
more from Hrafnkell Haraldsson
Yes, Anders Breivik and Our Fundamentalists ARE Christians was written by Hrafnkell Haraldsson for PoliticusUSA.
© PoliticusUSA, Jul. 31st, 2011. All Rights Reserved
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47 Responses to Yes, Anders Breivik and Our Fundamentalists ARE Christians
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DannyEastVillage
Jul. 31st, 2011 at 9:23 am
Nicely done. More of this calling out of people ignorant of Islam in this way is needed–not that I think it’ll do any good among the narrow nit-brains who are so full of hate.
Hrafnkell Haraldsson
Jul. 31st, 2011 at 9:54 am
Thanks, Danny. o, I agree – it won’t do any good on that side of things. Hopefully we can spur some independents and moderates to thinking about the facts on the ground as opposed to the spin. I’ve seen people argue that if he doesn’t belong to some terrorist group he can’t be a terrorist, like what, he gets an ID card? Are you kidding me?
jlt
Jul. 31st, 2011 at 10:10 am
And the self proclaimed ‘christians’ are terrorists..whether they use a weapon or blackmail or intimdation…that includes those in congress!
Reynardine
Jul. 31st, 2011 at 9:54 am
I seem to recall that there was an old song called “God On Our Side” that discussed this very sort of thing. Updated, I supposed, it could include something like:
… And one day in Norway
eighty kids died:
Don’t blame Anders Breivik,
He had God on his side.
Reynardine
Jul. 31st, 2011 at 9:57 am
P. S. Debbie Scheissel is calling the victims spoiled, overprivileged brats who deserved to die. See the article posted yesterday in SPLC’s Hatewatch.
A Walkaway
Jul. 31st, 2011 at 10:09 am
I find this extremely offensive and in error. I don’t have the time to argue the issue right now, but this is just as bigoted as the fundamentalists/dominionists are towards non-Christians.
Hrafnkell Haraldsson
Jul. 31st, 2011 at 10:18 am
As Stephen Colbert rightly remarked, the facts do have a liberal bias
Edward
Aug. 1st, 2011 at 2:40 am
I don’t. Sometimes a Christian can be an extremely bad Christian commit do acts of immense wickedness. Like Anders Breivik.
As Ronald Reagan once remarked, facts are stubborn things.
Edward
Aug. 1st, 2011 at 2:42 am
correctiuon: “and commit acts of immense wickedness.”
Erchie
Aug. 4th, 2011 at 10:36 pm
To quote Robert Burns
“But facts are chiels that winna ding,
And canna be disputed:”
A free translation into English
But facts are folk you cannot annoy,
And they cannot be disputed
Reynardine
Jul. 31st, 2011 at 10:58 am
Real Christians feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, defend the helpless,uplift the despairing, oppress not the stranger, and do not vaunt themselves: I don’t doubt, Walkaway, that you and many others are so, but the people bellowing Christianity from the rooftops not only persecutes anyone trying to do these good works, but even gun down their children, and then they think professing this “Christianity” will open the gates of heaven to them. In this way, they tar the name of Christianity as surely as Wahabbist jihadis tar the name of Islam.
A Walkaway
Jul. 31st, 2011 at 1:52 pm
EXACTLY!!! It’s not what you say, but what you do and how you treat the Other.
I have Muslim colleagues, who are as offended by the “terrorist” label connected with their religion as I am (and I’m offended for them). There is so much we have in common – good things. And, like me and those who think like I do, we don’t consider the terrorists to be connected to our faith (except by label). I also find much in common with polytheistic followers and others. There is good in all religions, and sadly bad has also infiltrated them as well. I can say the same about atheism as well – I have atheist friends with whom I get along fine (we find things in common and enjoy them, and learn from each other), and I’ve also encountered atheists who reminded me of the dominionists – trying to tell me how to think and what to believe, even if I’m trying to avoid or co-exist with them.
I’d rather get along with people and make friends. That to me is true religion… finding new friends, learning about them and their lives, and encouraging them in their own paths. As I learn more about them and their beliefs, I learn more about my own religion and grow in it. (Regarding the dominionists – their preaching has a negative effect and weakens my faith.)
DannyEastVillage
Jul. 31st, 2011 at 2:39 pm
Hm. You’re making me think of Michele Bachmann’s hypocritical trashing of Michelle Obama for her support of breast-feeding. Bachmann is such a whore that even though she was “for” breastfeeding” before she was “against’ it with her garbage rhetoric about “nanny-state,” she’ll denounce her own views if it will win points for her among the cretins willing to vote for her.
Reynardine
Aug. 1st, 2011 at 8:09 am
It’s the case that domineering, misogynist males are often infuriated by breast-feeding because: (a) they can’t do it; (b) they wish it was them on the tit, not that rotten little leech. They often either make their wives bottle feed, or if she breast- feeds and has trouble, they won’t let her supplement, and the baby fails to thrive. It’s a common tactic of abusive control, so Michele was just parroting the party line.
steve
Aug. 5th, 2011 at 3:45 am
but aren’t those who follow Wahhabism true followers of Mohammad?
Hrafnkell Haraldsson
Aug. 5th, 2011 at 7:08 am
You need to read up on Islam. Wahhabism is a reaction to modernism and western-ism and it did not develop until the 18th century and didn’t get power until the 1920s. Its founder was Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab (1703-1792), a theologian of the Hanbali school of Sunni Islam. They think of themselves as pure monotheists or good Muslims. Whatever the Wahhabists think of themselves, the rest of the Islamic world is not in agreement, clearly. Show me a Christian group that does not think of itself as being true to the teachings of Jesus (and remember Paul didn’t care about the teachings of Jesus, only his death)
steve
Aug. 5th, 2011 at 9:46 am
I’m sorry was I wrong in my statement. Those who follow Wahhabism aren’t true followers of Mohammad?
It was a real simple yes or no.
Yes they are considered purists of the word of Allah
Or no They have distorted the word of Allah.
Very simple question.
Reynardine
Aug. 5th, 2011 at 10:22 am
They have distorted the teachings of Mohammed. As for what Allah (or a Deity of any other name) would teach, go live life and learn it – or learn folly. The choice is yours.
steve
Aug. 6th, 2011 at 1:43 am
Reynardine.
What type of distortion? Your being quite vague.
As I understand history Abd al-Wahhab actually was trying to revive the Islamic faith by implementing strict obedience to the Quran. His belief was that Islam was being polluted from within and his teachings brought Islam back to it’s true roots. . So far am I right. Good? His dream of aligning all Muslims went on for nearly a half a century. Fighting the Turks, Iraq and many other nations his dream has been fulfilled.The Muslim Brotherhood who’s leader embraced Wahhabism achieved great influence through out the middle east. He taped into the unrest from British rule. The Quran and the hadith were translated into social Action. His attempt to use politics to enact Islamic law in Egypt began bloodshed of the ruling Monarch and eventually his murder as a reprisal. From here we know of the State of Israel and of course the murder of Sadat. But before this during the 2nd world war Wahhabism / Muslim Brotherhood made another aliance. This time with a more powerful ally. One who’s eye was focused on the elimination of the Jew and together they became collaborators of his final Solution. Amin Al-Husseini became a central member and ideological inspiration for the Muslim Brotherhood. As mentioned before the Muslim Brotherhood preaches Wahhabi Islam which justifies violent means to rid the ‘Muslim world’ of its non-Islamic element. It envisions a Pan-Islamic Empire, where strict Islamic law rules over all. Just as Mohammad has preached and commanded all Muslims to follow
So far this is right in line with documented History right? Good. He organizers riots in palestine which creates turmoil between Muslim and Hebron Jews.In 1936 Francois Genoud later known as the Swiss Banker of the Hitler’s Third Reich, travels to Palestine to meet Amin Al-Husseini. In 1937 Amin Al-Husseini visits Jerusalem German Consul. He meets SS Hauptschanfuehrer A.Eichman and SS Oberscherfuehrer H. Hagen to discuss “the Jewish question”. Amin Al-Husseini subsequently receives financial and military aid from Nazi Germany. In 1941 Amin Al-Husseini in Berlin meets with Adolf Hitler and is active in the decision to exterminate all Jews through the infamous Final Solution. Wahhabism has touched every inch of Islam. It’s fundamental roots are entwined within Sharia Law. It’s teachings of the purest sense of Mohammad and is in fact the style and basis for all true pursuits of the religion. You can spin this anyway you want. Saudi Arabia Mosques and madrases are filled with those who teach it and the children that absorb it. It’s prevalent in Iraq, Syria, Yemen, and Islamic locations through out Africa and the Philippines. It’s the basis for all so called terrorists actions since the formation of this countries Birth. When Thomas Jefferson and John Adams went to meet the Ambassador of Tripoli to ask by what right they had in attacking, enslaving, raping and murdering American Citizens. The Ambassador told them. And I quote” “it was written in the Koran, that all Nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon whoever they could find and to make Slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Mussulman who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise.”
So yes I have studied the Koran, Yes I have read the Hadits and the Sira, Yes I do understand abrogation and yes I know when someone is preforming taqiyya.
EvaR
Aug. 6th, 2011 at 8:19 pm
Your reply has haunted me for days. Nowhere in Christianity does it say to kill anyone. In the Old Testament, one of the 10 Commandments was, ‘Thou shalt not kill.” It was used for those who could not go to war and recognized by the government.
Nowhere does the New Testament call for killing of any person nor any enemy. Ever. Christians who believe in Jesus and his teachings are not about making death real for anyone.
Shiva (Moderator)
Aug. 6th, 2011 at 8:36 pm
God Kills 70,000 Men Over a Census
(God punishes David for ordering a census of his people.) Yahweh spoke to Gad, David’s seer, saying, Go and speak to David, saying, Thus says Yahweh, I offer you three things: choose you one of them, that I may do it to you. So Gad came to David, and said to him, Thus says Yahweh, Take which you will: either three years of famine; or three months to be consumed before your foes, while the sword of your enemies overtakes you; or else three days the sword of Yahweh, even pestilence in the land, and the angel of Yahweh destroying throughout all the borders of Israel. Now therefore consider what answer I shall return to him who sent me. David said to Gad, I am in a great strait: let me fall, I pray, into the hand of Yahweh; for very great are his mercies: and let me not fall into the hand of man. So Yahweh sent a pestilence on Israel; and there fell of Israel seventy thousand men. (1 Chronicles 21:9-14 WEB)
Murder, Pillage, and Plunder
“Next we headed for the land of Bashan, where King Og and his army attacked us at Edrei. But the LORD told me, ‘Do not be afraid of him, for I have given you victory over Og and his army, giving you his entire land. Treat him just as you treated King Sihon of the Amorites, who ruled in Heshbon.’ So the LORD our God handed King Og and all his people over to us, and we killed them all. We conquered all sixty of his towns, the entire Argob region in his kingdom of Bashan. These were all fortified cities with high walls and barred gates. We also took many unwalled villages at the same time. We completely destroyed the kingdom of Bashan, just as we had destroyed King Sihon of Heshbon. We destroyed all the people in every town we conquered – men, women, and children alike. But we kept all the livestock for ourselves and took plunder from all the towns.” (Deuteronomy 3:1-7 NLT)
But as for these enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and slaughter them in my presence. [spoken by Jesus as a parable] (Luke 19:27 NRS)
(God punishes David for ordering a census of his people.) Yahweh spoke to Gad, David’s seer, saying, Go and speak to David, saying, Thus says Yahweh, I offer you three things: choose you one of them, that I may do it to you. So Gad came to David, and said to him, Thus says Yahweh, Take which you will: either three years of famine; or three months to be consumed before your foes, while the sword of your enemies overtakes you; or else three days the sword of Yahweh, even pestilence in the land, and the angel of Yahweh destroying throughout all the borders of Israel. Now therefore consider what answer I shall return to him who sent me. David said to Gad, I am in a great strait: let me fall, I pray, into the hand of Yahweh; for very great are his mercies: and let me not fall into the hand of man. So Yahweh sent a pestilence on Israel; and there fell of Israel seventy thousand men. (1 Chronicles 21:9-14 WEB)
For the LORD had said to Moses, ‘Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.’ (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)
There is more death ion the old testament than there is in any 5 religions
john
Jul. 31st, 2011 at 11:11 am
Anybody Know?.. i remember during the 60′s a radio show called “The World Tommorow” with Garner Ted Armstrong.. sounds like the same stuff updated.. any relation to Herbert? we used to listen to it stoned and laughed..
Shiva (Moderator)
Jul. 31st, 2011 at 11:39 am
My ex and I used to get stoned and watch the Ghoul and Gardening by the Yard.
Great fun
Shiva (Moderator)
Jul. 31st, 2011 at 11:39 am
This tells me that the gospels were written long after a jesus lived and whose message was contorted by those who wrote it. Contorted by opinion of what it all meant.
I think it is very important to make the distinction between christians and fundamentalist christians because they are two very different things.
Christians do not, in my opinion go around killing abortion doctors, but fundies do.This is the same with the guy in Norway. Definitly a fundie. Christian fundie yes, and that needs to be made clear WITH the distinction that he was a fundie. In the same exact way we refer to muslim fundamentalists who kill for muhammed
Cathy
Jul. 31st, 2011 at 11:57 am
Great response to a great article.
DannyEastVillage
Jul. 31st, 2011 at 1:09 pm
It’s a misapprehension to say Muslims kill for Muhammed. They kill for their god just like murderers of abortion providers. Their rhetoric is as sick as that of the Westboro crowd – or of the governor of Texas or of DeMint of South Carolina. I am sick – SICK TO DEATH – of loud-mouthed know-nothings who claim special inside-knowledge of what their deity “wants” or “tells them to do.” Many such people are hospitalized on anti-psychotic medications; still others are in public office; and one of them is the CEO of Goldman-Sachs.
steve
Aug. 5th, 2011 at 3:49 am
I’m with you on the fact that Islam does promote and command it’s followers to convert, enslave or kill. But ya lost me on where Christ commands to kill. I’m sorry I never read that before.
Hrafnkell Haraldsson
Aug. 5th, 2011 at 7:09 am
It’s implicit in the Great Commission (Mark 16:15-16, cf. Matt. 28:18-20). Jesus did not say it. It was added to Mark by a later editor, but show me a Christian who does not believe Jesus said this.
steve
Aug. 5th, 2011 at 9:53 am
Wait a second. Jesus didn’t say it? It was added to Mark. Where in Mark? I’m reading that those who follow the word will be saved and those who do not will be condemned.
May I ask how you arrive at your conclusion that Jesus commanded his followers to kill?
steve
Aug. 5th, 2011 at 4:31 am
True Christians follow the teachings of Christ. To say one is a Christian he must by his best effort live accordingly. Anyone may claim to be a Christian this isn’t a club with a password or a secret handshake. Many have claimed they are but do not follow or practice the basic principals of the faith. Would they still be considered a Christian? Let me put it this way. If my brother claimed to be a conservative and he always voted against the GOP, hated Palin, cant stand Bachman and voted for Obama and will do so again in 2012 does that make him a conservative? He believes in free health care for all Americans, he marches for workers union rights and donates to all the top democrats fighting for social justice. Does that make him a conservative. Just because he says he is? Now as for Muslims, a true Muslim follows the teachings of Mohammad as they were passed from Allah. Allah through Mohammad has set 3 basic tenants to spread Islam all over the world, Convert, enslave or kill and those purest of the faith follow his direction and teaching. Some say Allah is a man of peace and will actually quote lines from the Koran, hadith and sira but by the means of abrogation which Mohammad himself has ruled that the new verse supersedes the old and followers are commanded to not change or alter these writings in the order that they were given. Now not all Muslims follow Mohammad completely. Just as some say they are Christians but only go to church on Easter and Christmas the same is true for some Muslims they don’t believe or rather they don’t follow the war like Mohammad nor do they worship the pedophile Mohammad. They live the peaceful Islam but this is not the true Islam. This is not whats being taught to children all over the middle east and in some parts of the country here.
Hrafnkell Haraldsson
Aug. 5th, 2011 at 6:56 am
steve, with all due respect, that’s not what Paul of Tarsus believed, not at all.
Paul did not care about what Jesus taught; he didn’t even talk about what Jesus taught. Read Paul’s letters if you have not already. For Paul all that mattered was Jesus’ death – and you are a Christian if you have faith that Jesus’ death brought about your salvation. Period. Faith is trust in Christ. No teachings of Jesus, no doctrines or a body of teachings that now makes up the Christian religion.
Are you going to tell me now that Paul was a Christian or not?
steve
Aug. 5th, 2011 at 10:08 am
You are referring to Paul of Tarsus The writer of Romans, 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Philippians, 1 Thessalonians, and Philemon. Those of disputed authorship are Ephesians, Colossians, 2 Thessalonians, 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, Titus, 3 Corinthians, and Epistle to the Laodiceans. Really? The man who wrote most of the new testament didn’t care about what Jesus taught? Really come on. You pulling my leg right?
As far as my faith goes my salvation is indeed with Christ. My issue with this particular thread was the truth of Islam’s mandated theme of Murder opposed to Christs theme of love.
Justme
Jul. 31st, 2011 at 4:12 pm
A Christian is one who follows and and acts on the teachings of Christ, and believes that Christ is the son of God.
I could argue that Anders did not follow the teachings of Christ by murdering people for political or what he believed to be Christian reasons, and on that level he is not a Christian. He may believe in God and Christ and Christianity, but he is not following the tenets of the faith, just as other terrorists who claim to be aligned with whatever other denomination are not following the heart of their theologies.
I could also state that even if he followed everything else in Christianity to the letter, and was a “Christian” in that sense, he is still a deranged individual using Christianity as his scapegoat, just as the Crusaders used it as their excuse to plunder and subdue others. I would think some would think what they were doing was in the name of God, but what one THINKS is God’s will and what actually IS God’s will can vary significantly.
If I blow up a building or shoot people and say the Church of Spider-man told me to do it, or that I was following the Quaker religion in beheading everyone at the mall, I think most people would just conclude that I was insane, not that Spider-man or the Quakers really had anything to do with my insanity or that Spider-man or the Quakers are EEEEvil and need to be condemned. The blame falls squarely on this man’s deranged mind and perception of what he thought Christianity was, just as it does for any lunatic professing their acts in the name of whatever.
As far as “Paul didn’t even write about or show any concern for what Jesus taught”, he did – his audience, however, was the Gentiles, not the Judeans, unlike Christ. The rules for everything changed upon Christ’s death and resurrection, where everyone – and I mean everyone – who chose to receive grace could receive that, and people were not subject to law. Paul had to do more Greek philosophizing than Christ did to get the same point across and spoke to people outside the Judean congregations. He showed SO much concern for Christ’s message that he was imprisoned and eventually died for carrying the message despite death threats. I think dying carrying Christ’s message of redemption is pretty strong “concern for what Jesus taught”.
A Walkaway
Jul. 31st, 2011 at 4:56 pm
I have a big problem with the “lone crazy” idea, because it’s not so. Nothing happens in a vacuum. The connections between Breivik and dominionism have been demonstrated.
Dominionists are responsible for the violence, and it’s far more common than people realize (my wife and I have been victims of their violence, and I’ve mentioned a few other cases in other threads). They may CLAIM to be Christian, but they don’t even follow the One they claim – they hurt and deny the very people that Jesus fought to help, for instance. The differences between real Christianity and dominionism… it’s been discussed enough that it shouldn’t be necessary to bring it up.
Whenever people think they have to take over the world, irregardless of the ideology (be it dominionism, Nazi Germany, or whatever), they’re wrong. When they start trying to bring it about, they move from being in the wrong to being evil. When they attack and harm people who disagree or harm innocents in their quest for power, they show their true nature.
It’s no different whether they do it in the name of Jesus, Mohammad, “The Fatherland”, Communism, Atheism, or whatever. “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” is a principle in every religion I’m aware of, and those actions are a complete violation of that principle.
Justme
Aug. 1st, 2011 at 8:13 am
I have no problem with the “lone crazy” idea – because I prefer to see and evaluate each person on an individual basis. It is wrong to put any group of people into a box, whether they appear to have good or negative motives. Putting everyone of any group in a box is not only lazy but a factual fallacy as well as discriminatory. Many people put all Muslims into the terrorist box, and they are wrong. Many people put all Roman Catholics into the child molester box, and they too are wrong. I refuse to believe that all dominionists seek to kill everyone to achieve their goals (because I personally know many in which that is not the case, they are simply very politically active), just as I refuse to believe that all (fill in the blank) do (X negative action) that represents all of them. Extremists – as well as peaceful believers – exist in every branch of society.
A Walkaway
Aug. 1st, 2011 at 12:13 pm
Well, by definition dominionists seek to take dominion over the whole world. It doesn’t matter if people are willing or not. THAT IS BY THEIR DEFINITION AND THEIR OWN WORDS. There is no such thing as a “good Dominionist”, it is a contradiction in terms.
In my experience, anyone who defends dominionists are steeplejacked, on the way to being steeplejacked, or a troll. They have rights like everyone else, but they do NOT have the right to force their beliefs and actions on anyone else. Defending dominionists is about like people in Germany defending the Nazis… and you know where that led.
I tell you this: if you want to defend them to me, why don’t you pay for all of the equipment I lost when my workshop was torched, comfort the holes in our hearts left by kitties who were poisoned or “vanished” after my letters were published (thank God for our other kitties who have been so loving – it makes it easier), and help offset the economic damage they’ve done to us (and which at least one ex-dominionist admitted they’d been deliberately doing to us – just because of false rumors and the fact that I am a walkaway)??? Maybe get them to not threaten other members of my family (including ancients) and to not demand that those older than me “SHUT HIM UP!”??? Stop them from preaching against me by name? These are just the things I can tie to the dominionists… many other things have happened that are suspicious, but I cannot say for sure how they happened.
They’ve even tried to beak up our marriage at least once that I know of, and where we caught them (back in the late 80s).
Would you find some way to guarantee that they won’t do more harm because of our political beliefs and membership in a hated church (Unitarian Universalist) and being from a despised minority (American Indian)? I REALLY would like to not live in fear because of them and their hate.
Find some way to stop the persecution my best friend experiences because he’s gay?
Get them to leave us alone and stop invading our “space” to tell us we’re going to hell and stop trying to convert us?
If you’re willing to do all that, then maybe, just maybe I’ll listen. Until that happens, forget it.
A Walkaway
Aug. 1st, 2011 at 12:27 pm
I might add, that since my workshop was torched, I don’t have a place to work on things. I also need a couple of utility buildings to replace the space I had. Since I’m unemployed and so far haven’t been able to find employment, I am unable to replace anything I’ve lost, including the needed space. If you’re willing to add those to the list too, then maybe I’ll listen.
steve
Aug. 5th, 2011 at 10:13 am
Who are they? These Dominionists you mention over and over again. Who are they where are they?
Reynardine
Aug. 5th, 2011 at 10:18 am
Go to the Wallbuilders website and see for yourself.
steve
Aug. 6th, 2011 at 1:56 am
So it’s the founding fathers? So let me get this straight you beleive
Well, by definition The American Founding Fathers seek to take dominion over the whole world. It doesn’t matter if people are willing or not. THAT IS BY THEIR DEFINITION AND THEIR OWN WORDS. There is no such thing as a “good The American Founding Fathers it is a contradiction in terms.
In my experience, anyone who defends The American Founding Fathers are steeplejacked, on the way to being steeplejacked, or a troll. They have rights like everyone else, but they do NOT have the right to force their beliefs and actions on anyone else. Defending The American Founding Fathers is about like people in Germany defending the Nazis… and you know where that led.
I tell you this: if you want to defend them to me, why don’t you pay for all of the equipment I lost when my workshop was torched, comfort the holes in our hearts left by kitties who were poisoned or “vanished” after my letters were published (thank God for our other kitties who have been so loving – it makes it easier), and help offset the economic damage they’ve done to us (and which at least one ex-The American Founding Fathers admitted they’d been deliberately doing to us – just because of false rumors and the fact that I am a walkaway)??? Maybe get them to not threaten other members of my family (including ancients) and to not demand that those older than me “SHUT HIM UP!”??? Stop them from preaching against me by name? These are just the things I can tie to the The American Founding Fathers… many other things have happened that are suspicious, but I cannot say for sure how they happened.
They’ve even tried to beak up our marriage at least once that I know of, and where we caught them (back in the late 80s).
Would you find some way to guarantee that they won’t do more harm because of our political beliefs and membership in a hated church (Unitarian Universalist) and being from a despised minority (American Indian)? I REALLY would like to not live in fear because of them and their hate.
Find some way to stop the persecution my best friend experiences because he’s gay?
Get them to leave us alone and stop invading our “space” to tell us we’re going to hell and stop trying to convert us?
If you’re willing to do all that, then maybe, just maybe I’ll listen. Until that happens, forget it.
MyThoughts
Aug. 4th, 2011 at 1:45 pm
A person calling themselves a Christian doesn’t make it so. Nowhere is this better illustrated than in Anders Breivik’s case. If one takes the time to read his manifesto (i.e. examine the facts) he clearly explains his so called “Christian” beliefs. In his own words:
“If you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and God then you are a religious Christian. Myself and many more like me do not necessarily have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and God. We do however believe in Christianity as a cultural, social, identity and moral platform. This makes us Christian.”
Nothing could be further from truth whether you’re looking from a religious or secular viewpoint. He goes on to add:
“I’m not going to pretend I’m a very religious person as that would be a lie. I’ve always been very pragmatic and influenced by my secular surroundings and environment…Religion is a crutch for many weak people and many embrace religion for self serving reasons as a source for drawing mental strength…Since I am not a hypocrite, I’ll say directly that this is my agenda as well.”
This clearly and undeniably proves that, though he may had decided to call himself a “Christian”, he was not one in any way, shape, form, or belief system. One would have to deny logic and the facts to continue to say otherwise.
D Dawg
Aug. 4th, 2011 at 11:18 pm
every muslim person thats a terrorist is a “muslim terrorist,” every christian person thats a terrorist is a “lone wolf”
steve
Aug. 5th, 2011 at 4:00 am
Every Muslim who’s committed murder in the name of Allah and by definition all terrorists have did so by Allah’s command through Mohammad and written in the Koran, Hadith and Sira. Every Christian who’s committed Murder did so on his own judgement not what Christs taught or by his commands.
Hrafnkell Haraldsson
Aug. 5th, 2011 at 7:03 am
It doesn’t matter, steve. A terrorist is a terrorist. A Christian committing an act of terror is a terrorist. Perhaps you don’t realize how much evil has been let lose in the world by the so-called “Great Commission” that last portion of the Gospel of Mark (Mark 16:15-16, cf. Matt. 28:18-20) that is not present in our earliest witnesses, and so therefore a later addition to the text. Here the unknown Christian editor has Jesus tell his disciples, “Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.”
steve
Aug. 5th, 2011 at 10:19 am
That’s what you said before but I’m having a hard time in understanding the relevance of Christ saying either your saved or your condemned. To find them convert them enslave them or kill them.
See what I mean. Are you really inferring the word condemn to murder? If you are thats quite the stretch because through out both religions the fires of hell and lost condemned souls will forever be in misery if the person doesn’t follow the religion.
Come on… really..Lets be intellectually honest here.
A Walkaway
Aug. 7th, 2011 at 9:15 am
Hmmm… that’s the sort of thing I hear from people who claim to be Christians – convert or die (or have your citizenship taken from you or be put in prison until you change or whatever).
steve
Aug. 8th, 2011 at 1:06 am
Really and where exactly does such a place exist. Or from what passage they claim to take this from.
If your referring to Islam yes. I can give you verse and line. but Christians. If this is in fact correct then where did Jesus say such a thing or is the definition of condemned mean killing to you too?