Lawbreaking Rancher Cliven Bundy Wins Victory That Will Embolden Domestic Terrorists

cliven bundy

 

The U.S. Bureau of Land Management announced today that it was ending its effort to seize Cliven Bundy’s herd of cattle that has been illegally grazing on federal land. The reason the BLM suspended the cattle round up was to protect the safety of federal employees and members of the general public. Bundy and a smattering of his right-wing supporters have threatened to wage a range war if the government continues with its effort to enforce the law. Let that sink in for a minute. The government is halting their efforts to enforce the law because of the threats being made by Bundy supporters.

BLM Director Neil Konze issued a statement arguing that:

Based on information about conditions on the ground and in consultation with law enforcement, we have made a decision to conclude the cattle gather because of our serious concern about the safety of employees and members of the public.

In other words, the threat of violent opposition to the federal government enforcing current law, caused the government to back down and yield to the demands of domestic terrorists.

Cliven Bundy has refused to comply with the law since 1993 when he stopped paying for permits to have his cattle graze on federal lands. Unlike other ranchers in the region, he is a freeloader who defiantly refuses to pay for grazing permits and who rejects the authority of the federal government to enforce the law.

While conservative bloggers, media personalities, and even some politicians are treating Bundy as some sort of folk hero, they should be careful about the precedent Bundy is setting. Patriot groups are quick to rally to Bundy’s cause, but his rhetoric and behavior is eerily reminiscent of the violent insurrectionist behavior of past domestic terrorists like Gordon Kaul, an anti-tax “sovereign citizen” who murdered two federal agents in North Dakota in 1983. When anti-government extremism reaches the point where it is used to justify murdering police officers and federal officials, it undermines the rule of law and puts people’s lives needlessly in jeopardy.

Turning anti-government ranchers who advocate waging war on the federal government into heroes simply emboldens domestic terrorists to feel justified in murdering federal officials with self-righteous zeal. Right-wing pundit and bloggers who hail Bundy’s political grandstanding as some sort of victory for liberty should bear in mind that Bundy is a supremely selfish individual who refuses to recognize the rule of law because he does not want to pay his fair share. Furthermore, they should recognize that by embracing the tactics of Bundy and his supporters who threaten armed violence against federal law enforcement officials, they are fanning the flames of domestic insurrection.

The leap from the rhetoric of Cliven Bundy to providing aid and comfort for the next Gordon Kaul or the next Timothy McVeigh is not much of a jump. Responsible citizens and journalists should not applaud Bundy’s actions or those of the “Patriot” groups that armed themselves on Bundy’s behalf. Americans should the reject anti-government violence Bundy and his supporters espouse and instead defend the rule of law.

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282 Replies to “Lawbreaking Rancher Cliven Bundy Wins Victory That Will Embolden Domestic Terrorists”

  1. Handing over our property to a thief? If you don’t quash the rebellion now, they’ll be back. The government is refusing to do its job.

  2. He’s a thief, a moocher and a multi millionaire. This is the hero of the RWNJ. Not surprising. It pretty much describes all of their heroes, like the Koch brothers and the GOP.

  3. It’s frightening how dangerous these Right Wing extremists have become. We were warned this was coming in 2009, when Michael Chertoff’s report on the rise of extremism was released. It was titled “Right-wing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment,” dated April 7, 2009. But now it’s clear that their forecast of a rise of this very sort of domestic terrorism was a vast underestimate.

  4. There was more going on here, then a simple loss of revenue from unpaid fee’s for Cattle grazing. Come on, only one million dollars ($1,000,000) this is a drop in the proverbial bucket. So let’s cut to the heart of the matter, that this was something more then a cattle farmer resisting the burden of not paying his fee’s. Also the response needed to deal with this was a bit extreme, if the Government wanted their money that badly they could have simply garnished the farmers bank accounts. Done deal, add in the additional problems of militia groups who all seem to think that the U.S. Government is out to get them all, only added more fuel to a fire that would have exploded in a nasty mess.

  5. This story is a bit skewed against the rancher but does tell the story well…, It’s good to see a story where the rancher won, So many small ranchers and farmers have been forced out of business. We should be supporting people like Clive Bundy rather than running them out of business. Have you been to the grocery store lately food costs are getting ridicules and all because we have fewer independent farmers and ranchers. With less and less competition corporations are more able to control our food supply and set prices at whatever they want.

    Great example of Government bending to the “Will Of The People”

  6. I understand everyone’s feelings and hell I agree this was a surrender. But think about this. If the BLM went in there to enforce their rulings and shooting broke out and a bunch of dead enders ended up cancelling Christmas that may sound good to us but you know and I know the backlash that would follow. I am not even talking about the usual Reich wing idiots but from the village itself who get their reporting orders from fox.

    The best outcome was to defuse the situation, sell the cattle they confiscated for back fees and from what I understand no cattle can no longer graze on that land anymore even if you pay.

    Its sad that when you break the law in defying the Government you are cheered in certain circles but that’s where we are at and remember its not racism.

  7. It’s not who wins the battle that matters. It’s who wins the war. I don’t expect Bundy will be so happy when they turn the unpaid fines over to the I.R.S. for collection. I have no sympathy for him. He’s been effectively stealing from the people of the United States for twenty years. He’s the kind of greedy rancher who used to be the villain in those classic old westerns.

  8. I doubt very much that this is over. I believe the government had no intelligent choice but to temporarily diffused a potential bloodbath. I was just reading an article that said militia nuts from all over the country were in the process of flocking to Bundy’s defense.

    This will play out after things quiet down some, but surely the government can’t let this guy win without opening the floodgates for all the other yahoos out there that don’t like playing by the rules.

  9. Oh please. Clive Bundy is no ‘small farmer.’ And the DNR was confiscating the cattle to SELL. Bundy refuses to pay his fees for grazing rights. How is that anything but cheating? No one is trying to run hymn out of business.

  10. I guess I’m a bit more belligerent; my THOUGHTS are to let the IRS handle it, but my FEELINGS are, “You want a range war? Come and get some.” A few well-placed rounds from a Barrett will “win their hearts and minds”.

  11. I think he won the battle but the Feds aren’t going to just take it on the chin. I would expect the first time he goes to town or where ever they will snatch him up. He can’t stay on his ranch forever. Better to avoid a blood bath.

    The 3%ers, and the rest of those para military types have been spoiling for a show down. They relish the thought of taking on the government. That will be a bad day for them.

  12. If I owed that much money to the government my property would have had a lien on it and probably belong to the government by now. Well, I know it would after 21 years. That man is nothing but a lying crook. This will happen again and next time it may be worse. You can;t let a vigilante group that is armed get away with this. They should have all been locked up for taking up guns toward the government. Bundy never owned that property. He is nothing more than a thieve. I can’t believe people that think that tens of thousands of acreage given to him. These are the same people that don’t want to see people receive food stamps but they are ok with a thieving sob like this.

  13. do you think the feds would have backed down if the farmers were either black or hispanics? my guess it would have been a massacre.

  14. While I’m far from a right-wing nutjob, the REAL question is this: WHY does the BLM own so much land in the West?? DO they really “need it”, or is it some territorial d*ck-waving shit? Like, “Look at all this land we own!”

    ARE they generating any economic activity and JOBS with it? Hell, the data doesn’t even seem to show that their efforts to “protect endangered species” ARE GOING ALL THAT WELL! So… why? Why keep ALL this land? At least give SOME of it back to the states!

    The feds own 85% of NEVADA. What do they need ALL THAT EXTRA LAND FOR? It’s insane. Give that land BACK to the Nevadan people or at least the state gov’t. To pretend like THE FEDS know better than THE STATES how to control THEIR OWN LAND is kind of naive…

    Did the feds ever ask THE PEOPLE in, say, a ballot initiative what THEY wanted to do with all that land before TAKING it?? Now THAT would be democracy! Instead of owning 85%… maybe the feds could just have 30%?

  15. Starrgazerr: what is even more frightening is how cowardly the BLM has acted. Score ome for the militias; 0 for the might of America. This is a shameful, perhaps game changing day for the USA. The recolution to come will be tragic for all of us.

  16. Granted, I’m not necessarily justifying what Bundy did, but the converse HAS to be asked: What “better” uses for the land would the BLM have for it??

    Seems like all THEY’RE doing with this land is SITTING ON IT! At least Bundy made a living off it and generated economic activity…

    What reason is there for the BLM to have all this land if they’re just gonna sit on it, doing absolutely nothing with it?

    Oh sure, perhaps SOME national parks should still be around, but I don’t think you need HALF of any state for that! And esp. not 85%… -_-

    I mean, hell… if the feds are gonna TAKE AND KEEP 85% of any state, why even PRETEND like that whole state IS ITS OWN STATE?? Just delineate that state into 2, 3, or 4 NEW states around the federal land and cordon off the federal part as some “Western Territory.”

    At least THEN it’d be easier to settle disputes (hopefully), and there’d be no confusion.

  17. It was a condition for statehood. The question you should be asking is why build cities in the middle of a desert with limited water supplies and everyone has green lawns

  18. Awwww, you sound all butthurt. Put an ointment on it.

    If this had been a bunch of OWS communers setting up shop or treehuggers planting medicinal mushrooms on public land, you’d have been spread-eagle in the ditch defending their Freedumz Against The Police State Oppressors™. Instead, you’re salivating over the prospect of the Gubmint gunning down some conservatives.

    I think we all know where the real political violence in this country will begin, given the power and opportunity.

  19. If it had been blacks or Hispanics, they’d have gotten a strongly-worded letter, if that, followed by an apology from AG Holder.

  20. I live in New Mexico and as such about 42% of our land is Federal land. The BLM is not some big bad boogeyman. They don’t “own” the land. They are stewards of the land and they do an excellent job. They maintain great hiking and camping and fishing areas that are nearly free. Yes, you can hunt on BLM land. You can buy or lease the land. The reasons they charge people like this dufus for cattle grazing is to recoup some of the cost for the upkeep of the land. They are also responsible for fighting fires on the land.

  21. Just like Ruby Ridge, right?

    The only difference between the nutjob militias and you is at least they have the courage to pick up a rifle. You want your killing done by someone else so you can watch it in living color from the comfort of your living room. Usually by the same police you’d otherwise express hate for.

  22. I believe the government just backed off – but it’s not over. So far the government has been neutered when it comes to the IRS – the IRS was investigating people who wanted tax exemption for being a social organization versus a political organization. It is obvious that too many people are using these exemptions to hide millions of dollars instead of paying their fair share as taxpayers. If the government doesn’t grow a set, all of us will stop paying taxes … after all why should a millionaire use public lands to feed his cattle on the taxpayer dime when all the poor and middle-class have to pay their taxes. Why should millionaires be able to store all their profits overseas and pay nothing. It’s not fair!

    Cliven Bundy’s cattle should all be confiscated until he pays the money he owes … like EVERYONE ELSE.

  23. Some of these dangerous terrorists are even rumored to have Norman Rockwell pictures in their homes. When will the collective finally euthanize these dangerous drug addicted street corner thugs?

  24. Then why don’t we all become squatters on public land? If this millionaire can use this public land that all taxpayers pay into to take care of the land to feed his 1000+ cows and not pay anything to take care of the land his cows are destroying, why can’t poor people starting squatting on all public lands and feed themselves? Oh, that’s right that’s considered welfare.

  25. The man is a thief. Plain & Simple. Maybe Americans need to snatch a couple of his cattle and have a GREAT barbeque since they grew up on OUR land and he has not paid the bill. I guess it would be fine if ALL UNEMPLOYED AMERICANS went there and butchered beef for the rest of the year. Turn about is fair play.

  26. Just a thought. If Bundy says his family is entitled to this land because of ancestry then shouldn’t one assume that all lands stolen from Native Americans be returned to them because it was their land to begin with?

  27. Thank you for the first truly intelligent response to the BLM – Bundy problem. Federal interference is usually the cause of loss of jobs as well as rising costs. Central Valley California grows most of the Nations fruit and vegetables and it’s drying up because Feds are sending the water to Bay Area. You will see a continued spike in food prices.

  28. I will delete and ban anybody who keeps repeating the lies of Harry Reid was going to profit from this lawbreaker. State your case but be warn if you lie you will be banned

  29. You know what YOU need to let sink in for a moment? That we will not let the federal government stomp on state’s rights or individual rights. It ended as it should have ended, in a peaceful way…of course under the weight of many militia members filtering in from all over the country. We win. You lose.

  30. No, WE lose. Militia’s are nothing. many states are corrupt. When someone is doing something illegal and the mi;litia’s come in, that means only one thing. They support illegal functions. And they represent terrorism. Like you do

  31. So, Bundy Ranch indicates that Homeland Security (Janet Napolitano) was right, ‘Right-Wing Extremism Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization & Recruitment,’ (April 2009) memo controversy..

    Thanks, Liberal Librarian

    What are the Civil Rights & Civil Liberties org. now?

  32. Well, seems your site is NOT a believer in free speech, unless you agree with the others here. Reasonable debate is a no no here so I’ll find a site that still hold the Constitution and right to free speech in high regard.

  33. Further, if you are supporting someone doing something illegal on federal land which is owned by all of us, you do not support the constitution

  34. “Handing over YOUR property”? It originally was public land belonging to “We the People”. You seem to have your priorities all askew, the government works for Us, not the other way around…….

  35. Free speech does not mean you get to say whatever you want without being challenged, it means that Congress shall make no law that abridges your right to free speech. Since this site is not Congress and nobody is being arrested for expressing their opinions here, your claims that the site is denying free speech, as they publish your comments uncensored, rings a tad hollow.

  36. The Feds? They’ll be back.
    They’re waiting for the straggler gun nuts to be in one place. Beats having to chase them.

    It’s sad that so many people think only ‘useful’ ‘productive’ things are important. “Highest and best use” is a realtor/developer’s term for squeezing out every last penny, no matter what damage and pain it creates.

    THIS is why we need the Liberal Arts. They teach empathy. They bridge space and time to touch people and connect them. They put us in someone else’s shoes and make us walk a mile.

    The police state/theocracy rejects arts for the masses. As in ancient Greece, the ‘fine’ arts are the privilege of the rich. “Liberal Arts” were named that because only free men were allowed to study them.

    If the clones start empathizing, they get communal. Then Labor is again ascendant.

    Remember Papa John: No Laborers, no pizza.

  37. If it wasn’t public land, the Mormon Church (largest private landowner in the West) would buy it up and charge ranchers four times as much for grazing leases. The government leases the land out at way below market rates.

  38. It sounds like some of you are disappointed this didn’t end in multiple deaths at the Gov’t’s hands. How deep is yall’s hate for freedom and liberty?

  39. Thats hilarious! Here you are supporting domestic terrorism and illegal activities and then yelling “freedom and liberty”

    No one wanted anyone killed except the militia members who showed up armed with penis extenders supporting illegalities.

  40. People, the land belongs to the state of Nevada and not the Feds. He had permission from Nevada to be there. Get some facts, then get a grip.

  41. So instead you support people performing illegal activities and cry out tyranny. How hilarious!

    Cliven owes the government(us) money and threatened illegal terrorism. And here you are. This is why the gop can’t win the presidency. NONE of you have a brain

  42. Seriously….where do people get that he’s a millionaire? Step away from watching old westerns and getting force fed the news from the boob-tube and actually go SEE the world.

    The protesters ARE NOT ARMED with anything but phones and cameras and any new protesters coming in are highly advised to only bring the same BY THE BUNDY FAMILY. The only ones armed are the federal agents, but thank god they have only kept their hands on their tazers and attack dogs (mostly).

    The article states he is the only rancher not paying the grazing fees….wrong, he is the only rancher in the area left and the only one to reject purchase offers. He WOULD pay grazing fees to Clark County and therefore the taxpayers of Clark County (true owners of the land, BLM only manages the area for their special purposes, i.e. desert turtle)….

    Feds say he owes $1million, and so far they’ve spent $3million to do this “round up” where 130 cows were killed by dehyration/heat exhaustion and 2 bulls were sho…

  43. Facts. Ah yes

    “The U.S. Bureau of Land Management announced today that it was ending its effort to seize Cliven Bundy’s herd of cattle that has been illegally grazing on federal land. ”

    You are done

  44. Why does it take snipers to corral cattle then? Admit it. Some of you wanted to see the Gov’t inflict pain and death, like the children murdered in Waco, gassed and burned to death. Some people have morbid pleasures. You can admit it.

  45. Its Federal land

    So you are saying no armed militia showed up? After your fellow brilliant scientist’s already admitted they did?

  46. I thought right-wingers wanted to see law and order maintained and lawbreakers punished. I guess I was wrong. What a surprise.

  47. You were actually too kind to that jerk. He epitomizes the mentality of the right wing libertarian morons who can’t seem to coexist peacefully with the rest of society.

  48. I grew up in Moab, Utah and know a little about the culture over in St. George. This is an area thick with breakaway (or not) Mormons involved with polygamy. They don’t care about any laws except for the ones that benefit them financially. There are numerous proven cases where towns drive out young men to lessen the competition with the 50 and 60+ year old men. I would love to see the government come down on this man and his violent supporters but know that there are more important things to consider when starting a war with people who don’t matter.

  49. So it was wrong to stand up to a corporate entity
    (BLM, is actually classified as an: “Agent of Foreign Principle”, under the intergovernmental Personnel Act.)

    Fines imposed and property is routinely taken by BLM, EPA, daily with no due process.
    Can you mention any of the first ten amendments this government hasn’t violated?
    I can site hundreds where it has, and has been court slapped for it.
    .
    Your lawless government has long abandoned it’s founding principles and documents.
    We’re just beginning to fight back. Hopefully not too late.
    .

  50. ter·ror·ize
    ˈterəˌrīz/
    verb
    verb: terrorize; 3rd person present: terrorizes; past tense: terrorized; past participle: terrorized; gerund or present participle: terrorizing; verb: terrorise; 3rd person present: terrorises; past tense: terrorised; past participle: terrorised; gerund or present participle: terrorising

    1.
    create and maintain a state of extreme fear and distress in (someone); fill with terror.
    “he used his private army to terrorize the population”
    synonyms: persecute, victimize, torment, harass, tyrannize, intimidate, menace, threaten, bully, browbeat

    Isn’t this what the government is doing to Bundy? I think this article is mis-titled. Bundy is not the terrorist here, our government is.

  51. Yes – OUR property, WE the People. We = Our. He has NO right to graze for free. His neighbors are angry at HIM, not BLM.

    So when the Rambo Wannabes go home, if I were he, I’d watch my back not from the gummint but from his neighbors who have paid their grazing fees.

    He’s a freeloader. Plain and simple.

  52. Don’t be so sure this is ‘cowardly’ rather than caluculating. Why stir up another armed action when time, patience, and good sense can prevail?

    I don’t think we can ask BLM people – one of them is a friend – to put themselves in harm’s way over a ‘showdown’ when there are many better ways to handle this LATER.

    His neighbors are pissed as hell at him. He’s in for a very rough time with THEM, too.

  53. Well, I for one am glad that things have quieted down and that no one was seriously injured. There are ways built into our democracy to address issues that are in dispute. However, this country is a land of laws, and without those laws we have anarchy. Anarchy is truly a state of “might makes right” whomever has the most firepower gets things their way. That is not a solution. Mr. Bundy must come into compliance with the law, or face the consequences. All the rest of this “stuff” BLM thugs, mineral rights, water rights, is a sideshow to the fact that this man is disobeying the law and has been for twenty some years. Time to be accountable and responsible.

  54. I’m sure you don’t have any problem with illegal aliens invading our country. That’s not illegal enough. Where is your compassion for this rancher. <sarc

  55. Keep up the good fight Shiva,don’t let them get away with their lies. Any info I varify to be fact I’ll send you to help in this fight. Good luck. Rocky MOUNT EPHRAIM NJ

  56. Ok, so supposedly Bundy owes the BLM a bunch of money for grazing fees back to 1993. Got a court document like a judgement showing this? No? End of BLM’s justification.
    Yes? Its NOT BLM’s job to collect, that’s what the US Marshalls are for. BLM is Land Management, not collection

  57. What neighbors? 50 neighboring ranchers have already been ousted. And he stopped paying the fees when they were no longer used as promised/intended… to maintain the area… roads, fences etc. The Bundy family was having to do that work themselves at their own expense. Will he be reimbursed for the work done that was the BLM’s responsibility? Not likely since the fees were redirected up the fed food chain and would no longer be used area (again, the stated need for the fees.) Bundy tried to pay the fees directly to the county but I believe the county refused as they had no grounds to collect the fees.

    Bottom line he is the last rancher in that area. If the feds want him out they’ll stop at nothing to get him out. They aren’t standing down, they’re merely regrouping.

  58. He won’t be allowed to “come into compliance”. They want him out. He’s the last rancher remaining in that area. They will now likely come at him through the courts and place a lien on his ranch. Maybe someone will get a KickStart or something similar going to raise funds for back fees and legal fees!! :) Likely won’t help though. BLM and the feds will have it their way.

  59. Thank you Dandi. You are exactly correct, with a whole lot of history to back it up — the biggest mass murders of all time, Stalin, etc. It should never be forgotten how these people behave when they hold power.

    Best Regards.

  60. What? What are you, 12? You sound unimaginably ignorant. Yet its spelled correctly. Whodathunkit?

    Lemme get this straight….some rancher decided he didn’t like paying the range fee for feeding his cattle 19 years ago, out of some notion straight out of the 19th century that it should be free. Goes to court and loses. Twice. The court orders that his cattle be confiscated to pay his 19-year debt. The officers, most making barely enough to live on, arrive to carry out the court order. A host of people arrive, from all over the country, and commence protesting, blocking roads, etc. And the officers are ordered to vacate to avoid further insanity.

    And YOU think YOU won something????? Bully for you. You think this rancher should be able to graze his cattle on public land for free….why? Because…Murika. Right? Whatever.

  61. The geography necessary for fracking doesn’t exist in the area but never fool yourself into thinking that someone up the food chain doesn’t have an agenda. You may want to have a look at this:

    “Regional Mitigation Strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone”
    http://tinyurl.com/ol4dky9 (blm.gov)

    pg 1
    “The strategy consists of preliminary findings and recommendations for conducting each element of a process that identifies: (1) the unavoidable impacts of utility scale solar development in the
    Dry Lake SEZ […]”

    *Utility scale solar development* in a ‘solar energy zone’. -If- this has anything to do with this whole fiasco and wanting all the ranchers out then why not just be upfront about it?

    page 30
    “The resource values found in the Gold Butte ACEC are threatened by: unauthorized activities, including off-road vehicle use, illegal dumping, and trespass livestock grazing; wildfire; and weed infestation.”

    Strange they weren’t ‘mitigating’ any of these situations befo…

  62. Reading comprehension is your friend. The cattle confiscation was ordered by a federal judge in support of a judgment against rancher. Pretty sure that would include an ocean of paper issued from said court.

    You do realize that ‘BLM’ stands for Bureau of Land Management? Where I come from that very much includes collection of fees owed for land usage.

    Personally, I blame the judge. This was a bone-chillingly stupid decision, guaranteed to set off a firestorm of protest. Why they didn’t just attach a lien on the ranch is beyond me. Pretty hard to work up the spit to protest a lien.

  63. fedded-up:
    Thank you for not using some lame political ideology to excuse the rancher’s actions! You get the prize for hitting the nail on the head! I read these comments and wonder why so many people have been hood winked by all the bull. They run and get their guns and act as if they are doing a good deed for their fellow American. I wonder if they are really willing to die for a thief?

  64. Exactly which group of “these people” are you referencing?

    Could it be the Pilgrims who thanked the natives for teaching them how to survive in the New World by giving them smallpox infested blankets?

    Maybe the Romans (Roman Empire – 503 years) who may have exterminated or enslaved a greater percent of the known world’s population than any other group of “these people”.

    Perhaps such atrocities as the crusades (all 370 years), the Holocaust or the Atlantic Slave Trade (355 years) can be blamed on “these people” too.

    I suggest “these people” are in reality … us.

  65. The entire thing is over th3e fact that Bundy refuses to accept the Federal government owning the land. First, he is stupid. Then behind him come the anti government morons. They have to support them because they hate Obama first then the government. Not a one of them gave anything here tonight to justify why they backed a rancher who just isnt very bright

  66. thats because it didnt break on real news. The feds backed down to keep from killing a bunch of fake militia people with penis extenders

  67. The 4th amendment does apply to Bundy.

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    Notice the “no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized” part?

    The courts issued constitutionally legal warrants.

    As for your missing post, any website also has a 1st amendment right to publish or NOT publish any comments.

  68. The evil Koch brothers ? They are only number 59 on the list of people who donate to political parties.They are 58 that give more than they do. You don’t hear about them because most give to the Democratic Party. The unions give about 20 times more money than the Koch brothers. Please check out the facts before making a statement like this. Harry Reid has to demonize the Koch brothers and make it look like their fault when the Dems. loose the elections in a few months. Just do some, or even a little, research and find out the truth.

  69. I did correct my incorrect post. It’s amazing, but all my other posts never posted, but you are able spew what ever you like and it keeps on piling up.
    Yes, I meant to say First Amendment, but type fourth in haste.

  70. Sorry, but the Koch heavily give more then the unions. Vastly more.

    I see you are good with the propaganda, but its no good here

  71. The same government which “protects” the tortoise from the “evil rancher” also throws people in jail for selling raw milk, smoking a plant, and protects Big Ag from GMO scrutiny. How’s that “freedom and democracy” working out for you?

    People yearn for decentralized power. The best government governs close to the peeps. It also means “voting with your feet” works! Not so much these days. The government we’re stuck with (for now) creates its own gravity, almost black hole-like in its intensity, sucking everything and everybody into its command and control orbit. It’s really not Left v Right as much as it is “Authoritarian” v. “Liberty”.

    We’re beating each other up to get control of the S.S. USA TITANIC’s wheel. Someday we’ll grow up, and let power spin back closer to the locals. Yes, that means Nevadans decide what’s up with that land. California is California. New York for New York, and so on. Are you willing to let people be? Not detecting much of that here.

  72. As for me, I find the states far more corrupt then the fed. No, I dont want 50 states all going their own way. I want 50 states with all the same goal. You want the states operating under a Walker, Scott or a snyder who tells the koch they have their plan underway? Not me

  73. Funny that you assert that since libertarians want nothing but to be left alone, while people like you want nothing but to stick your noses into others business then complain about them for things that you and your ilk do. You’re from Bizarro world for sure.

  74. Actually, the land belonged to Spain before it belonged to Mexico and it belonged to Native Americans before Spain arrived here. The point is that it now belongs to the people of the United States and this guy has been stealing from us just as the Spanish stole from the Native Americans.

  75. Daniel, Use to belong to Mexico has nothing to do with. We The People own it now and no one should have to pay a damn thing to use it for whatever. The other cattlemen should follow suite. Its time for all TRUE AMERICANS to stand their ground.

  76. Yes, that’s the US government I know. Always backing off to avoid a bloodbath. Lol. What a bunch of hypocrites. You’re all so ready to jump on the government’s side in this case, as if the government wouldn’t lie or commit a fraud to promote their land grabbing agenda. Just ask the Indians.

  77. It’s really very simple…When you use something you don’t own, there is generally a fee. He didn’t pay the fee so he gets evicted. It works the same whether it’s land or an apartment. If you think it’s not fair then you fight it through the legal system. Really think about what you’re asking for in wanting a system where laws are broken without consequence simply because an individual doesn’t agree with it.

  78. Thank you Shiva, you are being way to kind to these law breakers, and those who dine daily on Teabagger”s and rethug lies and deception.

  79. Who started the nasty rumor that we have insular little pockets of totalitarianism cults in Amerka, especially fundamentalist, who refuse to live within secular law! No, never, uh-huh…not “US”!!

    Osama Bin Bundy has the means to purchase large amounts weaponry to fight anyone who comes close to him/his family; that should be our first concern. The government acted wisely.

    He has plenty of good old boy rich friends who will support his home-grown anarchy. It is no surprise to hear that he’s getting “helped” by the Kochs. It takes money/guns to organize a stand off! Not unlike Waco, Ruby Ridge, Fred Phelps, Jim Jones, Warren Jeffs, he has “followers” (sorry, he’s no Tim McVeigh).

    Keep in mind, Fundie Mormons have a history of paranoia-killing; they have attacked in the past and created massacres. Read their history.

    This isn’t over.

  80. Bundy will pay the fines in the end, he OWES them, and is illegally grazing cattle, has had 20 years to fix his problem and gets on the local news shouting LIES and HATE of the government. Then, these idiots who pretend they are in some sort of alternate universe and believe in liberty, freedom, rule of law and the US Constitition, race in armed to the teeth and THREATEN federal officers with MURDER.

    Each and every one possessing a weapon should be indicted for SEDITIOUS CONSPIRACY which is the CRIME for trying to overthrow the federal government. That is what these imbeciles are doing and it is ILLEGAL.

    They all belong in GITMO as they VIOLENT TERRORISTS not citizens peacably assembling to redress their grievances.

    The feds did what they had to do to avoid another “Fast and Furious” type of incident which would have gotten federal employees killed – this was not the MILITARY, but hey, on May 4, we celebrate 44 years since Kent State. They could send in the National Guard!

  81. It is the BLM, not Cliven Bundy, who is in violation of the law and the Constitution, specifically Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17 of the Constitution.

    The clause, known as the Enclave Clause, authorizes Congress to purchase, own and control land in a state under specific and limited conditions, namely “for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings,” and not, as the feds now insist, to protect an endangered tortoise.

    The Founders were opposed to providing a centralized federal government with unlimited authority to purchase and, as is routinely the case today, seize state and private land.

    During the federal convention debates in September, 1787, Elbridge Gerry, who later went on to serve as vice president under James Madison, contended federal purchase of land “might be made use of to enslave any particular State by buying up its territory, and that the strongholds proposed would be a means of awing the State into an undue obedie…

  82. Shiva,

    Your patience with idiocy is a thing of beauty.

    I lived in NM for 15 years on top of a mountain bordering Lincoln National Forest. Ranchers generally comply with BLM rules and USDA Forest Services rules as required – this blew up due to the media playing for ratings. These militia imbeciles are terrorists, same problems they have created on the Border. For some reason they believe they have the right to shoot/murder anyone who disagrees with them and violate any law they decide they don’t like.

    Bundy will lose his ranch through forfeiture and nobody will show up because it will be done in a courtroom.

    It is all about GUNS and penis pumps and Axiron and Viagra. Never have I seen so many impotent WHITE males than I have since 2008.

    American EvangeliBaggers with high-powered weapons are a danger to citizens. The feds avoided bloodshed and the rest should be arrested.

  83. Bill,

    Raw milk is dangerous – it kills – that is why it is pasteurized.

    80% of Americans want gun control, but LOBBYISTS like the NRA rabble rouse in situations like this to create gun sales and denounce government.

    Get over the 10th Amendment bullshit – that was settled after the Civil War.

    Tennessee has billionaire governor and criminal General Assembly – we need the feds to step in before people starve and die from lack of healthcare.

    If you don’t like the feds, GTFO and enjoy yourself in Somalia or some other hellhole with “local” govt, because we have had enough with “local” govts removing rights daily.

    As usual, gun nuts are clueless as to HOW the govt works and what being an AMERICAN citizen entails.

    The Stupid. Never Ends.

  84. I used the wrong word “celebrate” when I mention 44 years since Kent State. For those of you who do NOT know or remember, The Ohio National Guard was brought in during a student protest over Viet Nam and actually SHOT and KILLED UNARMED students for protesting peaceably. Nobody grabbed their guns and ran to Kent State to challenge the National Guard. It was horrific and remains so, idiots like the detractors here enjoyed “killing those damn hippies” “America, Love it or Leave it”, but they did not gather guns and run to challenge the military.

    Lack of respect for the federal government (i.e. President Obama by proxy) is about as UNPATRIOTIC as it gets. I DO NOT want to hear ANYONE tell me this was an act of patriotism as it was TERRORISM plain and simple.

    The students at Kent State had only FLOWERS IN THEIR HANDS and were mowed down like animals under NIXON.

  85. Bundy and his ilk are criminals, tax evaders, and domestic terrorists; they mooch off of every American that pays his taxes!!!! They belong in gitmo!!
    The government needs to send in swat teams and bring them to justice, even if that means bring them out on a slab!!!

  86. Bundy is a criminal, a tax evader, and a moocher off the Americans that do obey the law. He should be brought out on a slab! They should go in there like its a meth lab, and cut the crap!

  87. DJ,

    Both you and Shiva should be commended for patience and control with these know-nothings.

    It makes me ill that domestic terrorism is on the rise here in America but when “one of their kind” commit crimes, they run to his defense showing their TRUE COLORS of violence and hate and support of CRIMINALS.

  88. Some have questioned why the feds took action to remove the cattle and I think that was done mostly because they are doing immediate damage to the native fauna. Bundy has ignored BLM guidelines for the number of cattle that can be grazing on those lands without doing damage to the resource. The cattle need to be removed or reduced in number one way or another. I wouldn’t be surprised to see that within the next next month or so, after the gang mob gets tired and goes home, the BLM will conduct a more well thought and coordinated plan to have the cattle removed from that area. Locking Bundy up could very well be part of that plan.

  89. John,

    The ignorance spewed out in your post is typical of a Bagger. Wrong information, zero facts, bringing Harry Reid or any Democratic politico into this is a ridiculous comment.

    I am assuming you like many, have never laid foot in the SW or Western states with small populations and large tracts of federal land.

    Where in the hell do “you people” think the military tests its weapons? There is federal “air space” over much of Nevada and New Mexico that is used by the military to protect America. Ever heard of White Sands Missle Range? Get a map.

  90. Richard,

    This is 2014. We are the United States of America. We have a federal government designed by the Founders. What some dissenter said is 1787 has NO BEARING on what laws are in existence in 2014.

    Like most self-styled “patriots” and Xtians, cherry-picking sentences from documents and your Buybull DOES NOT MAKE IT LAW.

    The term “America, Love It or Leave It” fits this situation to a tee.

    Go fill your Viagra script, get some Axiron and perhaps a blow-up doll, you probably don’t like women who stand up to you either.

  91. DJ,

    My home state of Texas has been trying to steal water from my beloved state of New Mexico for many long years. Fortunately, they have been less than successful.

    I am willing to bet that these same militia guntoting penis-extenders are also in favor of destroying the Ogallala Aquifer with the Keystone pipeline. Destruction and lawlessness in the name of “freedom” is anarchy. These domestic terrorists just want to kill people to justify their expenditures on firearms.

    Remember, McVeigh sat on his car watching during the Waco fiasco – Betcha OKC remembers.

    Mental illness is rampant in the USA and this incident is another example.

  92. Dee,

    Prove the feds spent $3 Million on this ordeal.

    Next, tell me how it was okay for a Canadian citizen to be elected the US Senate and then shut down the FEDERAL governnent to the tune of $24 BILLION over a constitutional healthcare law?

    I really do hope STUPID and IGNORANCE hurts.

  93. For the baggers that don’t think the Federal Gov does not own the land here you go

    The United States and Mexico signed the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in 1848. In that treaty, Mexico ceded land that includes the present-day state of Nevada to the United States; see also Sparrow v. Strong, 70 U.S. (1865) (“The Territory, of which Nevada is a part, was acquired by Treaty.”). The language of the Treaty itself refers to the land ceded by Mexico to the United States as “territories previously belonging to Mexico, and which remain for the future within the limits of the United States.” (1848). Courts in the United States have uniformly found that title to the land first passed to the United States through the Treaty.

  94. Continue the Nevada Constitution states: That the people inhabiting said territory do agree and declare, that they forever disclaim all right and title to the unappropriated public lands lying within said territory, and that the same shall be and remain at the sole and entire disposition of the United States.
    http://www.leg.state.nv.us/const/nvconst.html

    Now I know reading is NOT fundamental to you teabagging fools but this idiot broke the law plain and simple

  95. Lets face it, when has any militia in the modern era been on the side of the law? They exist for one purpose, to try and take down the government so the koch can afford it

  96. The Bundy family is grazing cattle there for more than a century, a long time before the government stole it from them and turned it into a protected public area. The freeloaders are the government representatives who steal the rancher by taxing them on the land they owned for more than a century. Who the hell are they to decide if it’s their right or not to do what they want on their own land? Who the hell are you to support a totalitarian government spitting on the constitution of the united states of america? I hope they’ll seize your land one day, but I guess you don’t even have a land of your own to behold such a marxist speech…

  97. “Raw Milk is Dangerous”…For some maybe, but many enjoy it. So are many activities. You distrust your fellow man so much that there must be a big grand bully to keep everyone “safe” from every possible harm. That’s not freedom, it’s raw paternalism of the worst sort. All tyrannies enacted “for your own good” are the worst.

    Yes, let Scott Walker run that state, his voters can decide if Kochs corrupt him. Here in Oregon we have the corrupt eco-topian types who in their heart believe in bio-centrism, and rural folks should either starve, or move to Portland. Their guy is John Kitzhaber, of failed “Cover Oregon” fame. Let us decide if we want our lefty brand of corruption.

    The states were to be laboratories, not vassals of the feds. And for those who say the Civil War settled all that “10th amendment bullshit”, the Civil War settled NOTHING. All that mattered was who had the raw power. “You try and leave our voluntary union of states, and we’ll kill you” was the operating prin…

  98. Idiot it was not his land. You are so ignorant you don’t even deserve to be insulted. Read the Nevada constitution.

  99. I am terribly frightened when I read an article like this. Every one needs to look deeper into this please. This is really important. Politicians and the news media are not on your side. I was a democrat until yesterday. I am really frightened for every day people.

  100. I think they should grant old Bundy what he wants. He doesn’t recognize the Federal Government, ok, then cut off all Federal services, roads, bridges, electricity, fire protection, FEMA, etc.. Let him have his own little country out there. See how long he lasts.

  101. Because of the Bundy affair? The deeper to this is the guy does not recognize the Federal government and wants militias to come and die for him.

    If this is all it takes to get you to change partys, then I say good luck. The republicans would do no less. Remember the traitor reagan and the militias of the 80’s?

  102. Bill,

    I lived in Monmouth-Independence for 3 years. A town full of educators and scientists. My husband (PhD) taught ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENCE-Forest Ecology at OSU-Corvallis. We had a environmental fight in New Mexico vs. Banksters and won the fight with science not bullshit.

    The only difference I saw in the ignorant rednecks of rural Oregon vs. ignorant rednecks of Texas, my homestate, were the Oregon rednecks wore muddy sneakers with their cowboy hats!

  103. You’re leaving out all the private land grants that were also part of the Treaty Guadalupe Hidalgo. The BLM && USFS have been stealing private lands from citizens ever since they were formed – in violation of this Treaty.

  104. You evidently know little of Gordon Kaul’s history. He was not murdered in any sense of the word. He was just another law breaker

  105. What’s wrong with this country? The government is afraid to protect its rights against lawbreakers? Suddenly we cower at the sight of armed fanatical citizens willing to kill federal agents to protect a law breaker? I’ll bet that if the land upon which his cattle were grazing belonged to a fellow rancher, there would be a range war, just as there were in the 19th century.

    The land Bundy has seized to graze his cattle is public land. As a member of the public, I demand that our government take the necessary steps to protect our land. Whether it be to jail Bundy and his supporters, cut him and his cronies from all federal service, or put up a damn fence, DO SOMETHING! Don’t just sit there with your thumbs up your asses. You know this will escalate and others will do the same thing elsewhere.

  106. Bundy Ranch, Privilege, And Cattle
    This section sums it up

    Here’s where the privilege comes in.

    Can you imagine what the reaction of America would be to a black cattle rancher grazing cattle on federal land, without paying the feds, for 20 years? Think about how that would be reported. Cliven Bundy is considered a patriot and hero for resisting the awful mean ol’ federal government, despite breaking the law for two decades plus. If he was black, the calls from the same exact people now hailing him as a hero would be far, far different.
    http://zandarvts.blogspot.com/2014/04/bundy-ranch-privilege-and-cattle.html

  107. Quoting Bill Moyers is valid?
    He is a Liberal Leftist who hates conservatives.
    Unions DO give more to the democratic party AND it’s 527’s! They by far out gave anything Koch has given.
    Even at that, George Soros, a Hungarian Citizen has given MORE to the Democratic Party causes then the Koch brothers. (527’s and direct donations via corporate connections)

  108. When was it OK to succeed your rights to a Government?
    What I find interesting is how there are a LOT of folks defending the government’s actions.
    They came in FULLY armed and ready to KILL anyone who got in the way of them taking cattle of of the land.
    What purpose was it to remove cattle from UNUSED land? Actually, the LAND was being considered sold to a Chinese corporation for several billion.
    http://www.westernjournalism.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/free-republic2.jpg

    I KNOW most of you people here hate politicians that are for sell. You also hate the idea that wealthy corporations are getting handouts. Yet that’s what this thing was ALL about. Selling this land to a corporation for profit.
    Harry Reid and his son was about to make MILLIONS from the sell. This is the ONLY reason this was happening!

  109. Of coruse you mean Federal land. Lets face it, you are confused.

    I am perplexed at how you just at the chance to support someone who breaks the law. You must be a wonderful shill for the 1%

  110. Im perplexed at how stupid not only the writer of this article is but the people calling bundy a domestic terrorist….
    No the gooberment at federal level has no right to demand grazing fees from state owned land not to mention he was forced to sell this land to the gooberment in 1990ish.
    Domestic terrorists are the tsa the fbi the cia and the blm claiming it was for a turtle what a crock of shit how many nukes have the federal gooberment droped on the nevada desert…
    Some of these comments i see here are absolutly disgusting at how many of u just bend over an take a fat rogering up the back side no curtisy spit from the gooberment. Zz
    Your founding fathers waged a war of indipendence just for a 3% increase in tax in tea…. They would be shaking their heads at how pathetic many of you are in not helping this farmer its not about water land or any thing like that its about haulting the government in their ambitions of totaly controlling every aspect of american lives…

  111. George Soros is a Dual Citizen! He was BORN in Budapest, Hungary.

    Individual donations to 527 organizations (2001 to 2010)
    George Soros: $32.5 million
    Koch Brothers: $1.5 million
    Individual donations to federal candidates, parties and political action committees (1989 to 2010)
    Koch Brothers: $2.58 million
    George Soros: $1.74 million

    Check the math?

  112. I do not work for the 1% thats excatly what u sound like u are a shill he is not braking the law he is standing up for his rights as a sovereing being…
    Do u even know the diffrence between the law and legislation acts and statutes?

  113. LOL, free republic? I wondered where this bs came from.

    No content of value, but its good for a laugh. Seriously, you sucked into this?

    BTW, the people came armed as they always would. They did not come armed to kill. Yopu are one of the worlds biggest suckers

  114. You are owned. We all live by the law. He broke the law. All you are doing is trying to make sure the government is small enough for the 1% to own. Yes, you are a shill.

  115. He did not brake the law u fools he tried to pay the grazing fees to the state government… Why the heck do u need more burocracy and armed ones at that to manage land wtf? Are u all drinking way too much flouride or what?

  116. He broke the law. The same laws we all live by. He refused to pay the bills, he did not recognize the federal governments authority.

    He broke the law. You are making very confusing statements there 1% shill

  117. I think I see where YOUR number came from.

    Together, the 17 conservative groups that made up the network raised at least $407 million during the 2012 campaign, according to the analysis of tax returns by The Washington Post and the Center for Responsive Politics, a nonpartisan group that tracks money in politics.

    So you put ALL of the conservatives into ONE pot and call it Koch Brothers?

  118. Think for a moment of your home. And lets say your house was built by your great great grandparents. Now you own the biggest piece of your family’s history. Then a new federal government agency is formed. The “Sidewalk Police”.The Sidewalk Police come to you and say that you are no longer allowed to drive your car from your driveway to the street. Because you would be endangering the lives of agents that “might be” on the side walk on the once, maybe twice a year they in your area. Their solution? You have to pay an expensive fee. You risk losing your family heritage to this agency on a “maybe.” So you rebel. Drive over the side walk anyways. After all how are you going to work? to sum this up, your family’s home, now being threatned by a governing agency that is formed not to protect you or your family but to protect themselves, prevents you from making a living if you do not comply and pay the fee. So who is the terrorist?

  119. The federal agents came Armed and posted in sniper positions. Your OK with that?

    Also I do LOVE when you want to get personal. It means you’re losing the argument.

  120. What law did he break? If he did break a LAW, he would be arrested, not have his cattle rounded up.
    They want the land for selling to the Chinese.

  121. It was never about a turtle… It was about controlling land.
    These people here only see Amerika for what it will become. The Kommunist States of Amerika!

  122. You know exactly nothing.

    Plutonium 238 half life is 88 years. Good bye reeper.

    BTW, its spelled “Reaper”

    Jesus you are ignorant

  123. That was a donation made by 17 groups with Koch. From what I read, over 300 Million of it was from the other groups. (This was in 2012 from what I read too)
    Again, how much did Soros and his groups give?

  124. I dont care why. This is way off topic and that discussion needs to end. Me Lancelot can go backl to free republic and ruminate on other things. I on the other hand have a large pile of compost to shovel to its new home

  125. You can ONLY speculate to that…
    Still NOTHING on Soros?

    Here is a larger question.
    Is it OK for a US citizen to donate money to a political cause?
    Is is OK for a corporation to donate money to a political cause?
    Is it OK for a 527 to receive money from the Citizens of the USA?
    Is it OK for a 527 to receive money from the Corporations of the USA?

    I am betting you have NO problem with George Soros giving millions and millions to democratic candidates, parties and 527’s, but you have HUGE issues with the competition of Koch to do the same thing.
    Why is Soros giving money?
    Why is Koch giving money?
    (MY bets, you wont answer all of these questions!)

  126. Lance,

    You do realize Politicusa’s logo STATES: REAL LIBERAL POLITICS! Go to wingnut daily, stormfront, freepers or teh blaze for your fill of IDIOCY.

    BAGGERS: STOP TELLING LIBERALS WHAT WE THINK OR BELIEVE, YOU ARE CLUELESS,

    just like FauxNoise and Repig EvangeliBaggers stating: “We know what Obama is thinking or what he really wants” because you have NO IDEA what is must be like to have a Repig politician TELL THE TRUTH.

    STOP SPECULATING, START STUDYING.

  127. Lance has no idea that the koch partially fund ALEX who is doing their best to take away all his rights in the work place. This is how stupid these people are. Wonderful 1% tools

  128. Lance,

    I just read all of your comments. You are very uninformed and ignorant, definitely in need of a dictionary and thesaurus.

    Adios, mofo.

  129. Marie,

    That is NOT THE ISSUE here. This is NOT their land, NEVER has been their personal property and they are destroying FEDERAL LANDS and not even paying the nominal fee to graze on TAXPAYER LAND.

    Baggers and their “traditional” crap is bullshit. Do you even know when Nevada became a state

    Do you know what Kocksukkers LOBBYISTS are doing with ALEC? American Legislative Exchange Council.

    They are WRITING LAWS for EVERY STATE and getting idiot Baggers to pass them for the 1% and AGAINST the American people who make up the 99% of this country.

  130. Lance,

    One does NOT “succeed” their rights. They may “cede” rights if they have any rights.

    Bundy is a criminal and his supporters are armed terrorists. Would you feel different if this was a Muslim community?

    Bundy has ZERO rights to federal land. He can comply and for a fee be allowed to follow the BLM rules and graze his cattle.

    There was NOTHING in any way related to a “well-regulated militia” involved in this terrorist act of showing up armed to the teeth to protect a criminal.

    Domestic Terrorism – same as the Boston Bomber. The feds just decided not to give Domestic Terrorists the opportunity to murder federal agents and that is all they were looking for – any excuse.

    Seditious Conspiracy is a CRIME with a 20 year sentence. Look it up. That is what this milita of terrorists is up to and they should be arrested.

  131. This isn’t a socialist Country. If the wealthy wish to save money it sounds like its alright with you.
    I though you folks didn’t believe in people not paying their own way. Why should we be subsidizing
    this man with our land. Will he be selling his beef
    at a lower price. This isn’t his land this is ours
    If he wants a socialist Country move.

  132. Lance,

    Your ignorance gets more astounding with each post. The KochBros Cabal is made up of MANY MANY organizations where their name is hidden.

    Are you one of the morons who pays $10 month to listen to the rantings of the insane mental midget Beck?

    Yelling “Soros” is one of the signs mental health professionals look at when determining ODS – Obama Derangement Syndrome.

    Us lay folks just point, laugh, mock and bury you in FACTS, using science, math, real studies on subjects while you spew IGNORANCE. Yelling stupidity loudly does NOT make you correct. Rather like Faux Noise and its idiotic ratings crap, does NOT make them TRUTH TELLERS, just makes their watchers UNINFORMED BAGGERS.

    /s

  133. Hilarity ensues:

    Lance, if your 6870 means you were born in 1970 you would have been about 20 years old when the USSR fell.

    KKKommunists Under The Bed, Oh My!

    It must be awful to go through life skeered of your own shadow.

    I remember the Cuban Missile Crisis – I was 8 yro. After that, I refused to become a coward and let anything scare me, including 9/11, which could have been prevented had Dubya not been given the Presidency by SCOTUS. Stupidity is what caused 9/11.

  134. DJ,

    All the years I lived in New Mexico I was in the law/real estate side of things. Outsiders have NO IDEA how land grants work, anymore than they can understand the State Engineer regulating the water usage.

    There are 3 types of water in NM:
    Domestic
    Irrigation
    Indian

    Water runs downhill. NM is made up of mountains and deserts.

    I became a water expert in my job. I was the “go to” person for water rights in the Tularosa Basin of which all water rights were issued in 1904.

    But let people who have never stepped foot in the SW come on this site and start spewing idiocy.

  135. Reep,

    I’ve been in the legal profession for over 30 years.

    A “statute” is a law that has been enacted. You know, under the Constitution, be it federal or state.

    Do not spew legal nonsense, it makes you look even more ignorant.

  136. no, your wrong. Look at all the cowboys! People who used to raise cattle but their property has already been stolen. THese are people within the community who support this guy. He’s standing up for his grandfather rights awarded to his family over 100 years ago. The BLM is there under the guise of protecting these desert turtles – saying the turtles were being threatened. total bs, and now the feds retreat when they realize you can’t just take away patriots land with slight of hand politics.

  137. Been reading everything I could find on the Bundy/BLM stand-off all morning and I haven’t yet sorted it all out…and he!!, I’m a d@mn genius. Conflicting information combined with a lack of information and an abundance of details make it impossible to come to a quick conclusion about much of anything.
    One thing for sure though is that the escalation of tensions was total PR disaster for the federal government – no wonder someone finally got smart and decided to get everyone out. An old man was turned into quite the sympathetic figure. All that might of the federal government and all that fire power was ordered because of unpaid fees, cows and desert tortoises?
    Appalling at the very least.

  138. Wrong. They backed off to protect the lives of the militia penis extenders. The land belongs to the govenrment(us). The land does not belong to him alone. All you are saying is you want the right to decide what laws you want to follow.

  139. All you have to do is read Nevada’s state Constitution which I have provided up thread. The land this welfare cheat claims is his right shows he is breaking the law. Yeah I said it HE IS A EFFING WELFARE CHEAT. But its ok because he is white.

  140. That land is only available to the farmer. Seems to me that public land should be available to all of us for uses that are NOT commercial. For free, forever.

  141. Some wag once claimed, the US is a “nation of laws, not of men.” Bundy supporters claim that no, the law does not matter — take what you want and the law be damned.

    Bundy is a moocher, who depends on law-abiding ranchers to pay the range fees that he refuses to pay. That’s usually the way it goes with this type of “freedom-loving American.”

    One of the “incidents” with the protesters was the result of a protester kicking a dog. This hero of the revolution kicked a dog. Another screamed bloody murder when a BLM agent yanked her out of the way of an oncoming truck. A cynical person might muse that the country would have been better off had she been run down.

    BLM manages range lands under a law passed in 1934, well before the arrogant rancher Bundy was born. The law was passed at the request of western ranchers, who recognized that unmanaged grazing was destroying the lands that they needed to survive. Bundy hates America. His ancestors would be ashamed.

  142. Screw the government. We need more people willing to do this. We need another revolution. This is a small victory, but we need far more.

  143. So standing up for Bundy who is breaking the law deserves another revolution?

    If you want top go back to the 1700’s do it in your own home

  144. First thing is first…everyone on this page sounds like they have some sort of political bias, which is understandable given that even our government ( yea the government that most are so passionate about) cant ever come to any agreement or act as a whole…now I will say this. I dont know all the facts and I dont claim to know them abd even the ones I think I know may not be factual, and that applies to everyone on this page..the only thing you know is what you’ve been told or read or seen on the news. So with that being said lets look at this from an unbiased opinion shall we?

    This is for everyone that doesnt support bundy…did he do anything to you personally?
    Does his actions affect you in any way, shape or form? Ive seen numerous posts on him not paying taxes on the land and Being a freeloader but does any one actually know…if those grazing cows are his primary source of income then it will be taxed accordingly by who? the federal government right? From what ive read the…

  145. The key word(s)in your reply is “us” (lowercase). This rancher is not ‘us’ and does not represent us. He represents himself and his own narrow self interest the same what a single corporation represents it’s own narrow self interest. He does not have my permission, or the permission of my elected representative in Congress to use what belongs jointly to me and ALL of the citizens (stakeholders) of the United States, (capital “US”), simply because he is one stake holder out of 350,000,000+ million. It is precisely this kind of abuse of the rights of the whole for the sake of a few that threatens our Republic, not the other way around. How so called patriots can fail to see the fundamental threat to the basic principles of our Democratic Republic this kind of self serving behavior typifies, is a mystery to me. It does not belong to him. His part is 1/360,000,000 held in trust. Without the consent of the other partners or their elected representatives this is stealing and against the l…

  146. They kicked the ranchers off the land after 100 years of grazing cattle to protect a tortoise. He didn’t pay because he was bullied by the federal government. Harry Reid orchestrated this show of force. He sold the land to the Chinese to erect a solar farm. The rancher is no Saint, but the government has become the devil.

  147. Thats complete BS and you know it. Good grief, free republic? Dont you know when you are being had?

    He didnt pay. He mooched, He broke the law. He will pay just like any of the rest of us would

  148. You have revealed your ignorance.

    Libertarians are not right wing. In fact they agree with liberals on many many issues. Google it. Ignorance is curable.

    Don

  149. They didn’t kick “a dog”. They kicked a snarling, growling Police dog, trained to bite and hold on until his handler orders him to release. This dog is a weapon, plain and simple. Its not Lassie for Gods sake.

  150. Charlie,

    Part of the problem that I think we can all agree on is the militarization of our nations police. This is what stirs things up. The Fed rolls in with way more force than is called for. This heavy handedness is what made Waco much worse than it needed to be and turned Ruby Ridge into a nightmare. 20 years ago, if the police wanted to arrest someone, they grabbed him as he walked to his car coming out of work at the end of the day. Save, neat, and cheap. Now they use a swat team to do a no knock warrant on the guys house at 4:00 am. Citizens get killed, cops get killed, but the cops get to play with their toys and dress up to play special forces. So its all good.

  151. So being left wing means be totally ignorant on the facts? The bundys NEVER claimed to own the land. BLM STOLE his cattle. many farms used the land to graze, until the feds ran them out.

  152. No, it isn’t necessarily “our land,” as insinuated by the “those moochers are using our public land!” argument. You’ve been presented a “black-and-white story” by facts being ignored. With research, you’ll see “public land” is a misnomer. It’s not that these ranchers have a mere “permit” to use public land that they otherwise have no right to. Many (all?) already have a legal interest in the land. Indeed the application for the permit has an applicant affirm they have either bought or control private property, by lease or a deed. In Western states, you can have water rights as a separate inheritable interest regardless of who “owns” the rest of the land. Such “prior appropriation” water rights allow use of nearby land not otherwise “owned” by the use. Finally, the initial grazing rights legislation, the Taylor Grazing Act of 1934, neither removed nor granted new rights.
    Before being quite SO outraged, please… consider the possible rationality of someone’s claims.

  153. “Our property”? Not so quick. Once again things have been oversimplified in coverage. Upon research you’d see that in western states Prior Appropriation water rights mean that someone can have a water rights interest in land without claiming right to the rest of the land. This type of water interest also then allows usage of the land nearby, even if you have no separate interest in it.

    To be clear, it is not therefore as simple as “a moocher using OUR public land!” In fact, the Bureau of Land Management’s application for a grazing permit requires affirming that you have control of land, either through lease or DEED.

    Finally, the Taylor Grazing Act of 1934, as emphasized by federal court cases, neither purported to grant new property interests or to take any away.

  154. When you say “let me get this straight,” see, what you say right after is, indeed, factually incorrect. It is not as simple as “a moocher using OUR public land!”

    In western states Prior Appropriation water rights mean that someone can have a water rights interest in land without claiming right to the rest of the land. This type of water interest also then allows usage of the land nearby, even if you have no separate interest in it.

    In fact, the Bureau of Land Management’s application for a grazing permit requires affirming that you have control of land, either through lease or DEED.

    Finally, the Taylor Grazing Act of 1934, as emphasized by federal court cases, neither purported to grant new property interests or to take any away. Since this guy had been on this land for some 140 years, he likely had such an interest, that, indeed, made it his land too, for the purposes he was using it.

  155. 5 U.S. CODE § 3331 – OATH OF OFFICE
    US Code
    An individual, except the President, elected or appointed to an office of honor or profit in the civil service or uniformed services, shall take the following oath: “I, AB, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.” This section does not affect other oaths required by law’.

    U.S. Code › Title 42 › Chapter 136 › Subchapter IX › Part B › § 14141
    42 U.S. Code § 14141 – Cause of action

    Current through Pub. L. 113-86, except 113-79. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)

    US Code
    Notes
    Updates
    Authorities (CFR)

    prev | next
    (a) Unlawful conduct
    It shal…

  156. Except this isn’t Federal land and never was. It’s been property of the State of Nevada since statehood. The BLM only entered the picture in 1993, making Constitutionally dubious claims of jurisdiction based upon “endangered species” they claimed were in the area–some sort of tortoise that’s so common that the Feds kill them as pest animals at the “refuge” established for them.

    Bundy paid the State of Nevada. Bundy’s mistake was being born with a ranch on land coveted by Harry Reid, who with his son, multimillionaire land developer Rory Reid, who has taken on Chinese solar panel manufacturer ENN as a client, desperately want to seize Bundy’s ranch on any pretext they, the BLM, and the EPA can cook up, so that Rory can sell it to the Chinese Communists and make big, big money. There used to be hundreds of ranchers in that area. After decades of government harassment and land seizure, Bundy is the only one left, and the only remaining obstacle between the Reids and payday.

  157. Your disappointment at the lack of citizen deaths is palpable. I am truly sorry for whatever happened to make you so angry and so narrow.

  158. Another sucker who doesnt know when he is being had. Chinese? Really? isnt it funny that story is the best kept secret that only rwnj’s know about? Dont you guys ever grow up enough to think? Dont you think if Reid would do something like that he would have been investigated then kicked out of the senate? Arnt you smart enough to know that?

    Seriously. You guys are beyond stupid

  159. This site must be where all the libtards hang out. You’re man are all pansy’s and your women, well your women are all men.

  160. Kieth;

    What part of Federalism don’t you understand?
    States have rights, they didn’t delegate any power to the Bastard Liars and manipulators.

    I guess you consider the men at concord green to be domestic terrorists as well?

    May your chains set lightly upon you and may history forget that you were every my countryman.

    A American

  161. States always have rights. But thank god we have a central government to keep the states from going insane. I give you Fl, Mi, Wi and others.

  162. Yes, I remember Kent State. I was horrified as a young teenager. Just as Nixon was responsible for the actions used that day, the GOP is responsible for the gun toting jerks of today. The GOP destroyed our financial footing then turned the tables by creating enough chaos to keep the truth from coming out about their beloved “no rules” mentality. Just think what would have happened if they had gotten their nasty fingers on the Social Security Account. We would all be broke! Just know this, no government means no services like roads, hospitals, fire or police protection, etc.

  163. The BLM is WRONG: What does Nevada’s Constitution say about property? Section 1, titled “Inalienable Rights,” reads: All men are by Nature free and equal and have certain inalienable rights among which are those of enjoying and defending life and liberty; Acquiring, Possessing and Protecting property and pursuing and obtaining safety and happiness (Emphasis added).
    In Section 22 of the Nevada Constitution, eminent domain is clarified. The state Constitution requires that the state prove public need, provide compensation and documentation before acquiring private property. In order to grant land to the federal government, the state must first control this land.
    Bundy’s family has controlled the land for more than 140 years.
    The Bureau of Land Management (BLM), which is an agency created by Congress, claimed that Bundy was “violating the law of the land.” Perhaps the agency has forgotten that the law of the land is the Constitution, and the only constitutional violation he…

  164. Washington DC just doesn’t realize that most people have lost faith in anything it does. The hearts and mind of the People are on the Constitution and the problem appears to be that Washington agenda is elsewhere.

  165. I am a patriot. I am a constitutionalist. I understand why the 2nd Amendment was written. Tench Coxe, along with several other proponents of the 2nd Amendment, made it very clear that We the People ARE the militia. That being said, this was not a victory for the people, or for Constitutional Rights. This man had his day in court and lost. A lot of us, and rightfully so, decried Eric Holder for threatening to go after George Zimmerman after he was found “not guilty” by a trial of his peers. But now some of the same people are saying the same judicial system is irrelevant. You can’t have it both ways.

  166. “The real hopeless victims of mental illness are to be found among those who appear to be most normal. Many of them are normal because they are so well adjusted to our mode of existence, because their human voice has been silenced so early in their lives that they do not even struggle or suffer or develop symptoms as the neurotic does. They are normal not in what may be called the absolute sense of the word; they are normal only in relation to a profoundly abnormal society. Their perfect adjustment to that abnormal society is a measure of their mental sickness. These millions of abnormally normal people, living without fuss in a society to which, if they were fully human beings, they ought not to be adjusted.” – Aldous Huxley – Brave New World Revisited.

    For my Liberal Friends who Love their government so much. A government only think they know. A Normalcy they only think they possess…

  167. So on the second day, the trolls still appear.

    Trolls: Real Liberal Politics

    Go to Faux Notion for your medicine of hate.

  168. Do you really think the founders intended for any given State within the Union to be permanently owned and managed by the Federal Government? Think about that for a moment. Only 15% of the State of Nevada is owned by the State or the People of Nevada.. What is the point of having a State within the Union if it is basically owned and managed by the Government itself.. Don’t you think that kinda goes against the entire concept of Statehood and the separation of powers within the Constitution?

  169. None of the states are owned. However certain properties are managed by the states and federal governments. What you are doing is getting carried away

    Do you think the founders wanted the states like Michigan, Florida and Wisconsin to become owned states by individuals? No. Without the federal govenrment there would be no US of A.

  170. Terrorists cause mayhem and destruction to get their way. They want a body count and lots of injuries. This definition unfortunately matches what the blm officers were doing not what the citizen militia were doing. If Bundy had not called out for help he would of ended up like Waco. As it is because the citizens for once were the ones with overwhelming force no one was killed.

  171. Complete BS. The citizens with overwheming force are the law breakers. They had no business being there. The BLM people were there for cows, not Bundy. Your conspiracy doesnt fly, but your imagination does.

  172. This is the way the US Federal Code defines domestic terrorism:

    ” the term “domestic terrorism” means activities that—
    (A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
    (B) appear to be intended—
    (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
    (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
    (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
    (C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States. ”
    Bundy and the right wing loons are domestic terrorist

  173. Sweet Robyn,
    Please don’t ever delude yourself by thinking that I won’t be back. In the meantime, read the section of the United States Constitution that definitively and unequivocally cites the very limited conditions under which the FedGov may own real property. It has NO Constitutional authority to “own” more than 80 percent of any State. I won’t tell you where to find it in the Con, in the fervent hope that you may stumble upon some other limit or two that is continually being exceeded by the psycho/sociopaths that now maintain a stranglehold on mankind’s grandest experiment in liberty.
    My two US Senators have been put on notice, by me and others, that we fully expect from them Harry Reid’s censure by the US Senate, unless he finally mans up and resigns. And, before you screech “partisanship” you may rest secure in the knowledge that I would not piss on George W. Bush if he was on fire. Have a blessed day.

  174. You need to read the Constitution:
    Clause 2: Federal Property and Territory Clause
    The Congress shall have power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State.

    The Federal Property and Territory Clause or Property Clause gives the United States Congress exclusive authority to set rules and regulations for the management of public lands

  175. Of coruse you would be stupid enough to think that the Chinese conspiracy is fact. You read it on free republic or someplace and you run around making a fool of yourself. Well zip your pants up, because this story was created for you to do just as you are. Spread more hate and stupidity. You willingly fill the bill

    And now you are doing it with your own representatives. The problem is you have no idea that they are laughing at you. Nor do you know that the people who made up the chinese conspiracy are laughing at you

  176. You seriously think our Federal Government work for us? Really????

    If you believe that then how do you explain Homeland Security and the NSA? Wire tapping, records seizure, etc’. Where in the Constitution is that allowed? It’s not. They don’t work for us anymore. They work for themselves and we let them get away with it.

    They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. – Benjamin Franklin

  177. Another useless echo chamber on the internet. It’s disturbing to see so many people rally behind a government that shows up in an area and mandates that all ranchers radically reduce the number of cattle that can graze – where they have been grazing for decades upon decades, then using the fact that they can’t sustain their living the government offers them money to leave, some of that money paid by the ranchers in fees to buy them out, then the government ends up planning to kill the so called protected turtle en masse and shut down the conservation center – supposedly the whole reason that Bundy was supposed to reduce the number of grazing cattle from a 1,000 down to 150.

    People who support that kind of sinister activity, well I guess they hang out under outbursts pretending to be insightful commentary and whine back and forth at each other in their ignorance. Hate can be a huge distraction for many people and anyone knows that the neo-americans are desperate for distraction.

  178. You are an idiot. This man is a welfare cheat. He owes the citizens of the US over a million dollars. You know what? If you are so concern about land rights return the land to its original owners. The Native Americans. But oh noes that goes against your white supremacy.

  179. The courts. Where are driver licenses in the constitution? Or cars? or flush toilets?

    The courts. You do remember them correct?

  180. I’m all for giving the land back to native Americans. Does this make me a traitor now?

    What are the negative consequences of this grazing if the land is also being maintained by Bundy?

    Not saying that he is maintaining it but I’m just asking as a hypothetical.

  181. Pay his fees to the people who has the mandate to maintain the land and there will be no problem. He is a welfare cheat who is cheating you out your money. Plain and simple

  182. Well you did not seem to answer my question so I will restate it.

    What are the negative consequences of the grazing if he is actually maintaining the land at his own expense?

    I ask because if it is the case that he is maintaining the land why should any legal action be taken against him?

    We make laws because (supposedly) the consequences of the illicit action have detrimental effects. But if this is a victimless “crime” why should the law be enforced. I can’t help but believe that they are just trying to appease some bureaucratic process rather than let reason prevail.

    Again I do not want to come off like I’m defending Bundy because I do not know all the facts of this case, and I am assuming that he actually is maintaining the public land.

    If he is maintaining the land then the government is doing nothing more than telling him he cant clean up his own mess and he must pay the BLM to clean his mess up for him.

  183. When have any of the real takers maintain anything? The oil spill that wiped out a town in Arkansas they walked away from it. This welfare cheat saw free grazing land in his teabagging mind and let his cattle run wild over it meanwhile there are ranchers that pay if its private or public land and they are at a economic disadvantage.

    You say let reason prevail? He went to court and lost. 3 times. Now he wants to claim something that doesn’t exist and he got nitwits who cant read what the Nevada Constitution actually says about public lands. You say he must pay the BLM to clean up his mess? Excuse me, ITS NOT HIS LAND!!! Damn this shit aint rocket science. Should I be able to shit on land that don’t belong to me even if I promise to clean it up? And what pray tell would happen if I renege on that promise with the excuse I do it when I feel like it.

  184. “When have the real takers maintain anything?”

    Well I would agree with you for the most part albeit most corporations are in bed with government which allows them to get away with this kind of shit.

    Bundy on the other hand was not receiving bailouts from the fed; he was just utilizing unused land. I would have a problem with this if he was abusing the land and taking no responsibility in cleaning up after his cattle. But if he was maintaining the land I do not understand the outrage.

    “Should I be able to shit on land that don’t belong to me even if I promise to clean it up?”

    No you should get the owners permission first. But do you see a difference in coming onto my private lawn and taking a shit, and going onto public land and taking a shit? If you decided to take a shit in a national forest I believe you have a moral obligation to leave as little of a trace as possible.

    “And what pray tell would happen if I renege on that promise”

    You would be financially ostracized

  185. I love my country, but understand and share people’s discomfort with our government. But you can’t refuse to pay your grazing fees for more than 20 years and then say the feds are bullying you. Not after losing several court cases on this case,not while you expand your herd into new allotments and overgraze the federal land that belongs to all of us and most definitely NOT just Clive Bundy.

    The haters from the south and their northern allies WANT a rematch of the original Civil War. They WANT to kill federal agents and call THEM the aggressors. But their hatred and incredible anger is making them blind, so that they can justify killing and destroying our country.

    And the U.S. is still a great country and if you start this war, you may bring in thousands of gun toting teabaggers and militia whackos, but you will also awaken the greater population to find out you are really just a small bunch of lightly armed bullies,who will sacrifice themselves and destroy their families.

  186. I am a conservative but for once I have to break ranks and side with the Liberals. Bundy is a scofflaw at best and fraud perhaps further down the line. The laws that BLM are attempting to enforce have been on the books since 1934. This attempt to stop legitimate law enforcement is not different than if a biker gang tried to prevent the arrest of one their compatriots.

  187. I agree with you and I am a conservative but not a member of the Tea Party. Please stop referring to them as “teabaggers” because we all know that this has homosexual connotations and I find Liberal’s use of it deeply ironic since they appear to generally support all things ‘gay’ but yet choose to use the term to degrade those they don’t like.

  188. They were the ones to first call themselves teabaggers without knowing what it meant. Don try to rewrite history

  189. You may not like the term “teabaggers” but let’s not forget, liberals didn’t come up with the term, the tea party did. Liberals aren’t the ones looking like complete fools running around with tri-corner hats on, with teabags stapled to the edge and hanging down. Sometimes, you just can’t escape the obvious.

  190. Pretty sure, Shiva, you meant the “GOP can’t win the presidency”, but anyhoo.

    Listen, this whole load of crap is nothing more than an excuse for all the little “patriots” to get all excited and run around calling each other on their cell phones, using some government infrastructure to do so, and arranging who’s going to bring which barricades, and oh gee, aren’t we sooo excited, we finally get a chance to pull out our pe-, er, I mean guns and point them at people!

    Every last one of them knows dang well this Bundy guy is on the wrong side of the law. They couldn’t give one rat’s arse about Bundy or his cows. This is nothing more than an excuse to practice their wingnuttery.

  191. No, actually, the Libertarians are indeed part of the right wing “git yer guns and blow some chit up” party. Why? Because they’re too weak to stand on their own, their platform is absurd and hilarious, and so they willingly chose to latch on to the coattails of the Republican Party.

    And to that other one who said they just want to be left alone, oh, yeah, couldn’t be more right. They want to be left alone to practice their industry and everything else with NO regulation whatsoever, make their own laws, obey what they feel like and discard the rest. They do not want a government, period. I say, go find your own country. This one isn’t the one for you. You can’t cherry pick the constitution.

    Again, a time worn statement, there is not, in history, one example of a successful (<== key word there) libertarian government.

  192. Some of you are so ignorant it shows that you get all info from corporate owned and sponsored MSM. You don’t even see the game being run on you because you are so partisan.
    Your government is not your government anymore! They are systematically enslaving us both economically and physically via scare tactics and false flags. They use race, class, religion, gender, sexual orientation, and any other means, to divide us. Some of us have seen through this and are trying to wake the rest up but we have to overcome political partisan hacks who never research anything on any site besides more corporate owned or sponsored sites. When they get the same talking points on all their partisan sites, they spout off like they are informed but in reality look like the ignorant sheep they are to those of us who research a variety of sites and use our own common sense to put puzzle pieces together rather than have some mouthpiece on air deliver the establishment mantra.

  193. Sure sure sure.

    It hasnt been our government since the great traitor reagan. However, running around with a penis extender and acting like you mean something doesnt work either.

    Get off your ass, stop whining, have a role and vote.

  194. BTW, you whine about partisanship, we also see who is doing the things you mention. We know that your little play militia isnt the way. We know who they are and we know what we will do about it. In the meantime you are useless.

  195. A Statute is a “law”?, not according to the U.C.C., which is bankruptcy law, under which the U.S. government is operating.

  196. “…reject anti-government violence…and instead support the rule of law.”

    Uhhh, last I looked, both government and law ARE violence. And nothing besides.

    You dogmatic Marxist lefties are beyond delusional. You’re entirely insane.

  197. And you are hilariously uneducated. Obviously setting in the basement with your penis extender hating the government. Useless. Totally useless

  198. You do not appreciate the 10th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution which preserves the powers in the states and limits the United States powers to those enumerated in the U.S. Constitution. It does not provide the U.S. the authority or power to enact federal laws to trump Nevada law or any other state law.

  199. WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!! That land was ceded by Mexico to the US government in 1848. Damn homeschooling didn’t do you any good

  200. And you have no idea when it applies. If you are going to quote the constitution, you cant just pull chapters of it out of your ass

  201. No, it’s originally Shashone traditional land by treaty rights and the US violated the treaty and stole their land. It should still be Shoshone land if the US followed their own laws…but they dont. This Ranchers family never owned this land. Only paid for grazing rights. He’s an entitle, selfish person who put other lives in jeopardy and doesn’t deserve to even continue using that land.

  202. No it originally was owned by the Shashone tribe as it is their traditional land. The US broke a treaty to steal it from the Shashone after purchasing from Mexico.

  203. No,it was the BLM that threatened to shoot the protesters if they marched past a certain point when they went to get back the cows that were confiscated. There isn’t even a need for the BLM to be there. All they have to do is file a lien against Bundy and docket it – end of story. Then when he dies or sells his property, the money comes off the top to the BLM with whatever the statutory interest is. I’m sure his wages could be garnished or the money taken out of tax refunds. It’s not sexy, but it would avoid a lot of trouble for both sides.

  204. I said nothing about any shootings. The BLM operates and manages the land. Bundy had choices. He failed. He owes money. His family wasnt on the land since the 1800’s and none of the rest of the BS you are pushing is true. There should be no trouble, the people with penis extenders had no business being there. The little pee pee people pushed the women and children put front to show how brave they are.

    Your entire scenario is a pile of compost. I know becuase I spent a good part of today shoveling it

  205. dj, you have a lot more patience than I, and I commend you for it. It is virtually impossible to reason with the majority of these Faux News and Rush Limbaugh-addicted, hook, line, and sinker likely GOP-voters. I have since given up on trying to reach them with verifiable and irrefutable facts. I have had friendships become dampened over politics. Whenever I try to gently persuade them with facts, they just dig in deeper on their obviously flawed positions.

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