Hobby Lobby Backfires on Republicans As Ruling Being Used By al-Qaida Facilitator In GITMO

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Holy Right Wing Hypocrites: Hobby Lobby Decision Now Being Used by Gitmo Detainees

We tried to warn conservatives about the precedent the Hobby Lobby decision would set, but they were convinced that religious freedom meant freedom for right wing “Christian” conservatives and their corporations only. You know, the alleged “good guys”.

But then logic came out to play and rained on right wing gloating. Guantánamo (“Gitmo”) detainees are now citing the Hobby Lobby case as the reason that their religious rights should be acknowledged. After all, how can they be less of a person than a corporation?

“If, under our law, Hobby Lobby is a ‘person’ with a right to religious freedom, surely Gitmo detainees are people too,” the prisoners’ lawyer wrote in a statement.

The motions, via Think Progress, ask for the right to observe communal prayer during Ramadan, the 9th month of the Islamic calendar in which Muslims worldwide observe as a month of fasting between dawn and dusk. The filing argues that prisoners were told they were not “persons” previously and thus do not have religious freedom. Yet, the prison’s military authorities prevented them from praying communally during Ramadan because they are not “persons”.

But, they argue that Hobby Lobby made it clear that every entity is a “person”, “Hobby Lobby makes clear that all persons, human and corporate, citizen and foreigner, resident and alien— enjoy the special religious free exercise protections of the RFRA.”

Awkward.

Especially because the right wingers who championed Hobby Lobby just set the stage for an admitted al-Qaida facilitator (that’s “terrorist!” in Republicanese) to demand his religious freedom in Gitmo. The suit was filed on behalf of Ahmed Rabbani of Pakistan and Emad Hassan of Yemen. Rabbini is an admitted al-Qaida facilitator, while Hassan is thought to be an al-Qaida recruiter but has denied this allegation.

The filing pleads, “Guantanamo Bay detainees, as flesh-and-blood human beings, are surely ‘individuals,’ and thus are no less ‘person[s]’ than are the for-profit corporations in Hobby Lobby or the resident noncitizens whom Hobby Lobby gives as an example of persons to whom the RFRA must apply.”

The prisoners’ lawyer explained in a statement that banning of communal prayers “is one of a series of recent measures against detainees on hunger strike.”

We are witnessing two bad right wing ideas colliding. First, Gitmo as a concept violates our democratic and moral principles and should be closed. The President has ordered the ode to Bush to be closed, but Congress (led by Republicans, but this rejection of closing Gitmo also includes many Democrats and an Independent) has denied the funding to close it. The biggest champions of Gitmo are the same folks who sell fear for a living and don’t think much of “freedom” if it applies to anyone but themselves.

Second, the right wing Hobby Lobby argument and the right wing SCOTUS decision were bad for many reasons — not the least of which was that it violates separation of church and state and discriminates against women as an entire class of people now not entitled to same protections under the law.

Prior to the Hobby Lobby decisions, I asked a conservative how they were going to feel when a Muslim used this decision to avoid following the law as it applies to everyone else. They scoffed, because when riding high on delusions of power, it’s easy to ignore precedent and reality. But we already went down this path and rejected it. That rejection was one of the founding principles of this nation.

For people who see danger and fear everywhere they turn, it’s bizarre that Republicans did not see where Hobby Lobby was taking them. They, who fear-mongered about Sharia law taking over the country, have actually managed to do just that — only they opened the gates with their own alleged “religious” beliefs (which they dubiously qualify as “Christian”). They, who co-opt the founders at every turn, just spat in the face of the founders.

Turns out, there was a pretty good reason we fought so hard to be free of the tyranny of others’ religious beliefs being imposed upon us as law. Just wait until a Muslim business, citing the Hobby Lobby decision, sues for the right to deny a conservative something they should be entitled to under the law.

67 Replies to “Hobby Lobby Backfires on Republicans As Ruling Being Used By al-Qaida Facilitator In GITMO”

  1. Like grandma used to tell me, “Philip, be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.” So, they got their wish.

    I was thinking about that Hobby Lobby decision recently. I was thinking with it’s wording what if I or we started a for profit religious think tank let’s say. As part of our religious beliefs we believe in no gun ownership. Or let’s say no assault style weapons. Can we then petition the court that all assault style weapons owners are violating our rights? Therefore all assault style weapons should be illegal? Is my religious right greater than the second amendment?

  2. the Right extremist perfectly fit the definition of ‘idiot’ as a 10-year old young man i taught – an ‘idiot is someone who is too stupid to even know he is ignorant.’ fits a lot of people these days…

    btw, there is also a level above (below?) ‘idiot’ friends have since added – ‘dildo’ – ‘someone who is not only an idiot too stupid to know he is ignorant but he has his head up his ass.’

    (no! my 10-year old genius did not come up with this. though, he would be in his 20’s now, so he might.)

  3. Knowing this Court, I can see a 5/4 decision whereby they claim “person” does not mean a biological “person” at all, but only certain entities important enough to claim the protections of “personhood”. Thus, by some convoluted reasoning, a fetus, but not a woman; a corporation, but not a homeless person; a church, but not a refugee; a Dominionist congregation, but not a detainee. I have seen most of these arguments made piecemeal; there is no reason why the five Justitutes couldn’t just roll them all into one big, stinking ball and hit us with it.

  4. It will be interesting to see what hypocritical reasoning SCOTUS will use to deny this request. The minefield that Justice Ginsburg was talking about, should the Court deny a religious right request of any other religion, they will be in effect saying, America is for Christians only.

    I can’t wait until a Muslim or Jewish medical corporation denies medical services to a Christian, as the believe the person health problems are due to them eating non-kosher food, like pork.

    Not only has the SCOTUS taken out a big chunk of the wall separating church and state, they have also effected the civil rights of many Americans.

  5. The Conservatives on the SCOTUS have opened Pandora’s Box and they will regret it, as they will be too embarrassed to say they made a grave mistake.

  6. SCOTUS threw corporations under the bus. That corporate veil? it’s now been pierced. In short, well-established corporate law principles do not support the suggestion that the religious identity of the corporation’s controlling shareholders should pass through to and exempt those corporations from compliance with generally applicable laws and regulations. Because Hobby Lobby and Conestoga have taken full advantage of the benefits of
    incorporation, they cannot now disregard the wall of separation that incorporation requires.

  7. Its somewhat hard to believe what these five kissass conservative justices have done with one corrupt bought decision, they pretty much destroyed the constitution, something no one that loves this country should be proud of, you people represent the worst of this country.
    You will be remembered for years to come.

  8. Peaceful or not, Islam is a totalitarian religion. If the Islamic Gitmo prisoners want to practice their religion, they’ll need to support it individually & leave communal cheerleading for al-Quaida back at home.

  9. Maybe I’m missing something here, but prisoners have always been allowed religious freedoms. I remember a rash of lawsuits from prisoners about prayer tents, etc.

    Jewish prisoners are served different foods (Kosher) and have separate meals prepared during their holy days, even in prisons.

    When someone becomes a prisoner, they are automatically excluded from voting. They do lose some constitutional rights. They are not to receive cruel and unusual punishment, though.

    The Hobby Lobby case was about government-forced healthcare that allotted for abortion drugs.

  10. Actually the hobby lobby case was about giving corporations the right to deny you services, medicines and any other thing they determine to be against their religion. For a Soutern Baptist that could mean not serving black people at pharmacys, day cares, doctors offices, resturant etc

    Reread the article and the demands from gitmo

  11. “The Hobby Lobby case was about government-forced healthcare that allotted for abortion drugs.”
    ————–

    Such a pity that you are so misinformed.

  12. “Just wait until a Muslim business, citing the Hobby Lobby decision, sues for the right to deny a conservative something they should be entitled to under the law.”

    I’m waiting and it will happen. The Christian fundamentalist will, I’m sure, scream bloody murder about them being persecuted. They do not believe in equality for all, just to have it their way only. The problem will also come down between variant “Christian” doctrines and their respective followers. But perhaps as a society we need to go through this madness to return sanity to our laws, our political arena and to our individual and communal lives. The fire and brimstone approach to life in general has proven to be quite destructive once again.

  13. It was just a matter of time, but here’s the problem:

    The Court did not give individuals more freedom of religion and if the Gitmo detainees did not have this freedom before the ruling, nothing in the ruling gives it to them.

    It’s not right, not by a long shot, but the ruling did nothing to increase religious freedom for individuals. Nothing at all.

    That said, these people at Gitmo need to be brought to trial if that’s what is going to happen to them – quickly. This indefinite detention is ridiculous and, dare I even say it? Yeah, I will: inhumane.

  14. Our medications have never come directly from our employer. They offer insurance plans to employees, and all medications go through our insurance.

    If an insurance plan is forced on a company and they tell you that you have to pay for abortion drugs–how does that negate prisoner religious rights? Rights they already have. This is not new.

  15. The same can be said for Christianity, in all its forms, be it Catholic, Protestant, Mormon or any other “Christ” based expression, as it is equally a totalitarian religion at the core of its tenets. Personally, I couldn’t care less what religion one chooses to follow, but would like them to do so within the confines of their homes and their places of worship, i.e. your request to support it individually and communally within their own organization. Keep one’s religion out of politics, out of public education, out of government offices and agencies, and out of my life. The modern day religious zealot, be it Christian or Muslim, is unable to give respect to others, but demands it for themselves. The hypocrisy of the “religious right” is astounding. Their hatred of “the other” is un-matched in its vile and cruel nature. It is apparent those who scream the loudest are the ones who do not follow their “God’s” teachings as mandated. The Greens are a prime example.

  16. If you want to make the case that the recent SCOTUS ruling doesn’t apply to Guantanamo detainees, fine. Then they are SUPPOSED to be protected from racial and religious discrimination by the Geneva Conventions, but we all know that the Monkey Bush wiped Cheney’s ass with that after he finished wiping his own ass on the Constitution.

  17. We must remember that every 5 to 4 decision SCOTUS makes about women has Clarence Thomas assenting. Don’t forget the Anita Hill affair. This guy is a sexual predator whose ass was saved; so my guess is Thomas just kneels next to the megalomaniac Scalia and votes according to how many times Antonin taps him on the head.

  18. We must remember that every 5 to 4 decision SCOTUS makes about women has Clarence Thomas assenting. Don’t forget the Anita Hill affair. This guy is a sexual predator whose butt was saved; so my guess is Thomas just kneels next to the megalomaniac Scalia and votes according to how many times Antonin taps him on the head.

  19. We must remember that every 5 to 4 decision SCOTUS makes about women has Clarence Thomas assenting. Don’t forget the Anita Hill affair. This guy is a sexual predator whose ass was saved; so my guess is Thomas just kneels next to the megalomaniac Scalia and votes according to how many times Antonin taps him on the head.

  20. I’m sorry friend, but no. The 4 drugs that were excluded were not abortion drugs. 2 were spermicides and 2 were meant to delay ovulation, neither of which interfered with a fetus or embryo during development. In fact, HL let some drugs that did just that, slide through.

  21. This is a farce. Hobby Lobby was employee vs. employer not prisoner vs. state. Why not sue for thier right to keep and bear arms while they are there. They are prisoners from a foreign country. The constitution does not apply to them. Even if they weren’t prisoners.

  22. LOL No it isnt. It drastically drops what we spend on healthcare per person and it drops the deficit. But we thank you for being a well trained parrot

  23. I guess no one bothered to tell all these geniuses that the GITMO detainees (prisoners) are not American citizens and therefore are not protected by our Constitution. Most of them are POWs and to even consider these arguments is nuts. These people are our sworn enemies and are out to destroy our country while you help them…

  24. Like with every thing else they will shake it off, blame someone else for their mess and life will go on as usual. Just chant America America America, wave your made in China flag and carry on.

  25. You can call it unconstitutional all you want. You can also call an elephant a mouse. It doesn’t make it so. Obamacare is constitutional until the SCOTUS says it’s not, and I they haven’t done that, have they?

  26. That’s not entirely true. The US recognizes basic human rights that are not dependent on US citizenship. Any non-citizen in a place under the jurisdiction of the United States is entitled to have these rights recognized as much as a citizen.

  27. The supreme court has already ruled that the affordable Care Act is constitutional with A 5-4 vote? chief zjudtice agreeing with the majority.

  28. And what would be the application to corporate owners who are atheists? Can they and nonChristian owners demand employees work Christmas Day and Easter? Can religious Muslim and Jewish owners demand female employees cover their hair, arms, and legs as required by their religious beliefs? Where does this nonsense of religious beliefs imposed on employees end?

  29. Actually, I believe the Gitmo detainees and their attorney have it wrong. What the Hobby Lobby decision did was: 1) reinforce their prior decision that corporations are people and 2) determine that corporations not only have religious rights, but they have GREATER religious rights than flesh and blood individuals or groups of individuals since they are permitted to impose the corporation’s “sincerely held religious beliefs” on people, at will, while possibly violating those people’s own religious beliefs and definitely violating those people’s constutionally protected rights.

    None of that, to me, translates to the Gitmo detainees being able to make an argument for their religious rights based on Hobby Lobby. I don’t see why the Gitmo detainees couldn’t be granted the right to engage in their faith expression simply based on basic dignity. The genuine form of Islam (i.e. non-terrorist version) is a peaceful and respectful religion.

  30. Have you checked out the rising costs of health care in this country? Of health insurance? Would you like to know why those costs were rising? Because too many were uninsured – they don’t get basic care because they can’t afford to go to the doctor, which means they end up in a hospital emergency room where they must be treated regardless of their ability to pay for the treatment.

    YOU were paying for those uninsured in the form of higher premiums and higher costs.

    Now the uninsured have a way to get health insurance that they can afford with policies that will actually cover their illnesses and ensure their chronic illnesses are treated and don’t lead to hospitalization.

    Would you like to keep paying for them? Of course, if you say “yes” to that, then you’d be complaining about THAT, wouldn’t you?

  31. Last time I attended a GOP State Convention in OK in 2010, the platform wanted the Bible taught in every classroom and asked ‘which bible?’ which did not go over well — bunch of hard right told me the New English translation (Green funded) which I had never heard of and told a group you use the word Bible and it means different things to different people and it is a slippery slope. Got informed this was a Christian Country and schools would use the new Bible – asked about the Mormon Bible and they said only their new Bible. They never got it when you open the door a little a tank can come through with ideas completely counter to theirs. Most hard-headed bunch of people ever come from hard right with their ‘my way or no way’ which is what has led me to leave the GOP I had been a member since I was a Teenage Republican. I wouldn’t vote for GOP candidates today if you paid me.

  32. As an executive at a major financial corporation I can see how truly uneducated you are on the facts. Due to Obamacare, we had to raise the price to our employee’s by 21% for the year when before any of this the largest increase to any employee’s premiums were 8%. You probably believed in the change Obama said. He was right, he took our debt from 10 trillion to 15+ trillion. Unemployment increased under his watch. I could go on but I will let you go to watch your soap operas or Dr. Phil or do your research and see how this is affecting corporations. Corporations are increasing fees to offset the extra cost to the corporation.

  33. PAWS, I understand what you are saying but the majority of the uninsured is doing it purposely. I have a manager who is working for me making $55,000 yearly. He does not carry insurance because he said he will just go to the emergency room since they have to take him and then let the hospital send him to collections. Over 35% of my employees do this. It is this mentality that is causing the issues in our great country

  34. You were screwed by the insurance companys who gouged you. Had nothing to do with Obamacare.

    Obama is the lowest spending president since Eisenhower. But you can go thank the Bush wars that went into the budget, as well as the 2 massive spending bills left to Obama.

    Unemployment increased beucase he inherited 750,000 jobs lost every month that was turned around almost instantly. Every month since then has seen positive job growth

    Nice try, but you are hardly an exec. I give you props though, thats a step up from a wannabe conservative saying he has a 7 car garage. Feck off

  35. How funny. An executive that lets his people go without healthcare so he can pay for them in his taxes.

    But, we know the exec part is BS

  36. GITMO Detainees should have NO RIGHTS under OUR Constitution. They have done EVERYTHING to undermine our way of life. PHUK’M all. They should have no right to use our laws against us. If the tables were turned, they would have KILLED every American that they captured… They would have NOT put them at the GITMO Hilton and given them legal representation. PHUK’M all.

  37. These men are not Americans so what freedoms do they think they are entitled to? They attacked or were planning to attack America and yet they want America to give them freedoms? Why? The terrorists didn’t care about the rights or freedoms of the Americans killed on 9/11 and the men at Gitmo aren’t any different. Why should they receive freedoms enjoyed by citizens of a county that they intended to destroy? Why? So they can have another 9/11? They are prisoners. They surrendered all rights and freedoms when they committed or attempted to commit whatever crime that put them in prison.
    Our nation is called The United States of America yet our country is incredibly divided. Forget about republicans and democrats and start acting like Americans. Set aside the trivial arguments and be united. Do what is best for America, not your agenda. If you are not capable of being an American or you do not love this country, leave. Good luck demanding freedoms and rights in places like Iran and…

  38. I honestly dont believe half the people out there understand how these two cases are different and why the prisoners will never qin. Or what hobby lobby’s precedent in the case was and how they won.

  39. Gitmo detainees are not US citizens, they are enemy combatants. They do not qualify for our constitutional protections that are reserved for citizens of this nation. This is why it is so dangerous to bring these terrorists onto US soil and treat them as if they are anything more than war criminals. I believe Eric Holder wanted to do just that and elevate their legal status.

  40. Only the people that decided to join your group would be limited from owning firearms…Hobby Lobby does not forbid the use of abortion producing methods of birth control it simply says that they should not be mandated to provide it as part of their insurance to the people that decide to work for them based on their religious convictions.

    I don’t understand your comment

  41. Oh bullshit. Anyone in this country is covered by the constitution. That applies to Germans on vacation or prisoners or war.

    Bringing them from Gitmo to here is no more dangerous then moving them to a deserted island.

  42. Of course you dont understand his comment because you have no idea what this decision did. You tend to think its about birth control when it actually destroyed the protections of incorporated companys. IE you can now be refused servoce of any kind if an organization asserts you or your race, beleifs etc are against their beliefs. Try looking beyond the birth control issue.

  43. Sorry gitmo prisoners are not US citizens so I don’t want to hear this crap…but there sure are some real problems with granting corporations HUMAN rights

  44. Doesn’t matter, they are in US custody which affords them rights. Just like visitors from Any other country being here does.

  45. It amazes me how people throw around the words “ignorant”, “idiot”, “stupid”, “uneducated” etc., but do not know facts themselves. First and foremost, the US Constitution applies ONLY to the people who are CITIZENS of the US. The “beloved” Abraham Lincoln showed this when he suspended the Constitution for Confederate soldiers, politicians, corporations and “people”. Also, in my opinion, to be protected by the Constitution you have to follow it yourself, which rules out ALL radical Islamic terrorists. Second, a corporation is considered a person because it is composed of people exercising their First Amendment Rights, freedom of assembly and speech. So it speaks, conducts business, and acts as a “person”. Third, one person/persons is/are not entitled to the life, time, money, or fruits of another person(s), except in one circumstance granted by the Constitution in the 6th Amend., and only because we, as the people of the US, write the laws that could deprive another of…

  46. Same thing for them. When they are here they still have constitutional rights., Quick trials and protection under the law

  47. So your point is they do not have protections under the laws we have, the right to a trial and representation etc? Sorry, visitors here have some constitutional rights

  48. So your point is they do not have protections under the laws we have, the right to a trial and representation etc? Sorry, visitors here have some constitutional rights. A corporation is not a person. A corporation cannot speak as an entity for the people within it. A person speaks for the corporation in the name of the corporation.

    “Also, in my opinion, to be protected by the Constitution you have to follow it yourself, which rules out ALL radical Islamic terrorists. ”

    You have no idea how funny that is

  49. Actually, m2old4bs, Christianity doesn’t force you to be Christian. Islam, as interpreted by and administered by the radical Islamists, demands that you are killed if you don’t convert. That thinking, from Christianity, was hundreds of years ago, when Christian “leaders” only wanted to expand the religion to gain power and wealth This county arose because of, and was founded by, the people who were seeking to flee that sort of oppression. Islam has not gone through the evolutionary change that Christianity did over the last 600 or 700 years with the people of this country leading the way. That is why the so called “moderate” Muslims do not take a stand militarily and philosophically, and the extremists don’t lay down arms willingly. I regret to have to say that your statement was made either without the facts, or was intellectually dishonest.

  50. LOL the this country did not change christianity. It was changed long ago. In fact this coutnry is now subverting christianity in the same exact way the extremist muslims do

    If Islam demands you convert, then why are there christians in muslim countrys? Why are they not dead?

    I regret to have to say that your statement was made either without the facts, or was intellectually dishonest.

  51. Shiva, should we apply the “rights” of their country to them, or ours, or just basic human rights as defined by the Geneva convention? Or should the rights of the country any person is in at any given time be the governing body of rights? You seem to say that just because they are on US soil, they should be afforded the same considerations that our citizens enjoy. Citizens that follow those laws and resplendent the rights of their fellow citizens. And did you not read your history of the US Civil War. Was is not wrong to deny Confederates their Constitutional rights based on your logic? Or only when it suits your goals? If you follow you’re logic, many things that happened during the US civil war should and would be overturned. Intellectual dishonesty is so easy to spot and it proves my points to be the truths that they are. You mock my interpretation of US Constitutional law, however, your argument falls flat when every country on Earth had their own constitution or a lack of…

  52. The Hobby Lobby decision WAS NOT about denying someone services. They were not in the business of selling contraceptives! Hence they could not deny those services. They offered the same healthcare insurance to women as they did men. Now had they been a hospital that denied certain people treatment based on ethnicity, color, religion, or sex, you’d have a case. But the facts don’t bear your argument out.

  53. 1. We are talking about America. Not other countrys, not Europe, Not Afghanistan
    2. Visitors here are afforded protection under the law, which are constitutional rights. DO they have all of our rights? No but If they are European probably yes. What isnt covered here would be covered in their country
    3 The suspension of habeaus corpus for confederates doesnt mean anything for today, or for visitors. Gitmo is a different story and they are still afforded some protections under the law
    4 I am not saying I am for or against any of this, I am saying thats how it is

  54. Shiva, name one Muslim country that has not allowed, or better yet been a part of, the persecution of Christians or Jews. In addition, I can name a few that HAVE allowed the mass killing of Christians and/or Jews in the last 70 years, some in the last 1, 2 and 3 years (Somalia, Iran, Iraq, Syria, and by no means is that the end of the list). I can also name Western counties that have allowed the persecution of differing Christian religions (Britain) and Jews (ahem.. Germany).

  55. Constitutional rights govern the people who subscribe to that specific Constitution. In this country, that means the US Constitution. If you are a visitor, you are saying by coming here that you agree to abide by our laws. Geneva convention rights apply to soldiers who declare themselves from a country and are fighting for that country. The prisoners at Gitmo are neither. They were picked up, fighting against the US, on the battlefield. They wear no uniforms purposefully so they cannot be traced back to the government that supports them. Therefore, the Geneva convention does not apply. As such, the US government had decided a set of rules, or laws, to deal with detainees, or prisoners. They have rights, but they are not afforded all the rights that a US citizen, nor a soldier governed by the Geneva convention, would be. Not only that, our laws have consistently held that a person can be denied certain rights based on certain criteria, hence my pointing to the actions of Lincoln during…

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