Limbaugh is Wrong: Gay Activists Didn’t Kill Christianity – Christianity Did

Jesus Says Enjoy Hell
Back in March of 2013, Rush Limbaugh, who has been married four times, lamented about marriage equality, “The issue is lost. I don’t care what the Supreme Court does. This is inevitable. And it’s inevitable because we lost the language on this.”

The problem was, he complained, conservatives ever associating the word “marriage” with unions that were clearly not, in conservative eyes, marriages.

“As far as I’m concerned, once we started talking about gay marriage, traditional marriage, opposite-sex marriage, same-sex marriage, hetero marriage, we lost. It was over.”

Yet Limbaugh, who has never been good with the whole reality “thing,” has himself been unable to let it go, lost cause or not.

Now he is blaming gay marriage for the decline of Christianity in America – specifically “less than 1 million gay activists” who have “bull[ied] and steamroll[ed] an entire country.”

From yesterday’s edition of The Rush Limbaugh Show:

“And in some cases female and lesbian ministers, which you might think in some cases could cause people to leave those churches. “Those denominations — the Methodists, the Presbyterians, the Lutherans — dropped a lot of members.”

Right. It’s female and lesbian ministers who drove people away, not an unrelenting message of hate.

They have left their churches because of social issues and the evolution of their churches to social areas they didn’t want to go and don’t feel comfortable being in. If you look at the evangelical churches, they haven’t lost anything. Their membership is holding pretty steady. Where the message has remained, where the mission has remained the same, where the members of the church don’t think any corruption is taking place. They’re still hanging in there.

Some might say, the churches that haven’t fallen pray to the dark side. All of this silly social evolution.

Like I said. He isn’t good with the whole reality thing.

“How is it,” he asked finally, “that 70 percent of the population can be bullied and silenced and coerced into accepting societal evolution with which they disagree because of their religious beliefs?”

He is pulling numbers out of his backside, but his conclusions are mistaken whatever the numbers. A minority did not bully a majority. And gay activists did not cause a decline in Christian numbers. Christianity did.

A.H. Armstrong relates for us the legacy of Christian intolerance. According to Armstrong, “the triumph of Christianity carried in it, as perhaps all such triumphs do, the seeds of future defeat. The Church in the fourth century took what it wanted and has been paying for it, in one way or another, ever since.”

In other words, you just can’t blame the recent rise of fundamentalism in the form of the Religious Right. I mentioned the other day the lack of any Republican edicts of toleration, but this has been going on for a long time:

The choice of the way of intolerance by the authorities of Church and empire in the late fourth century has had some very serious and lasting consequences. The last vestiges of its practical effects, in the form of the imposition of at least petty and vexatious disabilities on forms of religion not approved by the local ecclesiastical establishment, lasted in some European countries well into my lifetime. And theoretical approval of this sort of intolerance has often long outlasted the power to apply it in practice. After all, as late as 1945 many approved Roman Catholic theologians in England, and the Roman authorities, objected to a statement on religious freedom very close to Vatican II’s declaration on that subject. In general, I do not think that any Christian body has ever abandoned the power to persecute and repress while it actually had it. The acceptance of religious tolerance and freedom as good in themselves has normally been the belated, though sometimes sincere and whole-hearted, recognition and acceptance of a fait accompli. This long persistence of Theodosian intolerance in practice and its still longer persistence in theory has certainly been a cause, though not the only cause, of that unique phenomenon of our time, the decline not only of Christianity but all forms of religious belief and the growth of a totally irreligious and unspiritual materialism.[1]

Not that Limbaugh’s form of Christianity is all that spiritual, or lacking in materialism. But the point stands. Christianity is to blame for its own demise. This should come as no surprise to any of us who have witnessed the “culture war” atmosphere of the past few decades.

Conservatives, on the other hand, have had a difficult time coming to grips with America’s changing demographics and attitudes, despite many of their own attitudes being fairly recent developments.

Witness a chat had by Bill O’Reilly and Megyn Kelly back in 2013 concerning Proposition 8. Kelly revealed that she thought Tony Perkins did not have a compelling argument against marriage equality.

“That’s where the compelling argument is,” O’Reilly told Kelly. “We’re Americans. We just want to be treated like everybody else.”

“That’s a compelling argument. And to deny that, you’ve got to have a very strong argument on the other side. And the other side hasn’t been able to do anything but thump the Bible.”

You get the sense O’Reilly wishes they had something more, but they don’t. Limbaugh was angry with O’Reilly and Kelly of course, but they didn’t start the fire.

And the Bible isn’t particularly anti-gay, as has been pointed out many times, despite the efforts of anti-gay activists to turn it into one, long, anti-gay diatribe. Eating shellfish is as sinful as laying with another man, and the circumstances of two men together are far less clear-cut than the eating of the shellfish. Nor did Jesus make any pronouncements against gays and lesbians, let alone transgenders.

As Armstrong pointed out, it is the persecution and the repression by Church authorities that have been, and continue to be the problem. These are the issues that have been noted in studies concerning the rise of the Nones, and the lack of attraction “traditional” values hold for Millennials.

Simply put, there is no “good” news in the Religious Right’s religion. It’s all judgment. And it’s apparent to all that the people doing the judging don’t have any moral high ground to stand on.

Rush Limbaugh, who is in decline himself, can blame gay activists for this decline, but he really should be blaming himself as the ugly face of persecution and repression that is driving young people away from what the Church is selling.

Notes:

[1] A.H. Armstrong, “The Way and the Ways: Religious Tolerance and Intolerance in the Fourth Century A.D.” Vigiliae Christianae 38 (1984), 1-2.

23 Replies to “Limbaugh is Wrong: Gay Activists Didn’t Kill Christianity – Christianity Did”

  1. Totally agree. Evangelicals and their insane, inflexible bigotry is the cause of xtian decline in the US. Hatred, in the long run, will always lose. Plus, they are too stupid to realize they are totally being played by the repugs, like the desperate clown that rush has become.

  2. There is nothing at all attractive in ril Chrishchanity. You have to have been brainwashed into into it, terrified into it, trapped into it, immured in it, or several/all of the above. It is violent, unjust, repellant to its core, with nothing attractive to any except the bullies who wield it as a bludgeon. That is why they demand to keep the power to bludgeon so stridently, and have such pervasive nightmares about others seizing the power to bludgeon them.

  3. I will never understand how the many-times-divorced Rush Limbaughs and Newt Gingrichs, extol the sanctity of lily-white, heterosexual marriages….

  4. If Christians actually lived, acted, and voted along the lines of Christ’s actual teachings (minus the theology), Christianity would be great!

  5. When is Limbaugh not wrong!? Yesterday one of our customers spouted NewsMax, AFA crap by claiming that if the SCOTUS upholds equality in marriage then the churches will be taxed because the churches will not allow same sex couples into church and still deny performing weddings for them because of lawsuits. When I explained in detail why that was patently false his eyes glazed over and he of course spouted crap from the King James version of the big lie. When I further explained WHY that version is so flawed and irrelevant he left just looked at me at declared that “fags getting married is an abomination” and I countered with the simple fact that it is really none of his damned business!

  6. This:

    http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/staver-gay-marriage-will-lead-another-holocaust-and-ghettoization-christianity

    The rhetoric used in the above by the counsel for Liberty U., is a perfect example of their fear of “the other”.

    The premise is, that anti-gay groups will loose their tax-exempt status and they will become so marginalized for their “anti-everybody-but-me” they will wind up in ghettos until they become the scape goats.

    I still posit that they actually want persecution to happen as a means to legitimize their religious belief as a household “brand”, allowing them a place at the table…they don’t qualify to play in the big leagues with those who have experienced real persecution.

    The “anti-everybody” church movements are about to blow up like super-nova.

  7. How is it, that 70 percent of the population can be bullied and silenced and coerced into accepting societal evolution with which they disagree because of their religious beliefs?”

    Because we ‘societal evolutionists’ didn’t bully, silence, or coerce, anyone into accepting it. We used the facts and the Constitution.

    Gay Marriage- is not mandatory. If you don’t wanna marry a member of your sex, you don’t have to.

    Religion in General, and Christianity in particular (in the U.S.) chose to make a mountain out of a molehill, no a flat level of ground, by ignoring reality.

    It’s a free country, you want to ignore reality, go ahead. But don’t expect the rest of us to pander to your ignorance.

    Christianity can get those numbers back- by ending their foolishness.

  8. Two things:
    1. By far, the change in marriage laws which has had the biggest impact on families and society is divorce. Accepting gay marriages isn’t anywhere close.

    2. While the Religious Right calls itself Christian – it isn’t about Jesus Christ. It rejects those values that the Bible shows Jesus Christ having, and pretends its values are Christian. Jesus Christ welcomed the outsiders, the unclean, the sinners, & the poor. Jesus Christ argued with the Righteous. Jesus Christ warned about how difficult it is for the wealthy to enter the kingdom of heaven. He fed the hungry. He healed the sick. He befriended the “wrong” kinds of people.

  9. last year at one of our summer street fairs I got stopped by an idiot with a bible asking if I knew Jesus…

    I stopped him when I said only as a prophet revered by Mohammed… he didn’t know how to reply to that…

    as a separate issue… taxing churches actually should be an issue that’s discussed irrelevant of the churches stand on any issue including gay marriage…

  10. Exactly! When are people gonna start minding their own damned business.
    We live in America. We have been told every American has the same rights as every other American.
    We are not a theocracy. Religious people can believe whatever they choose, but they do not get to force those beliefs off on others.

  11. Never forget how Karl Rove exploited evangelic anti-gay
    sentiment and stem cell research debate to distract the
    voters in election 2004 from Dubya’s lunacy. Once the
    harm was done, people logically deduced that the thumpers’ gullibility had cost America four more years of
    GOP stupidity. That’s enough to empty pews as far as most sane folks go.

  12. The drug addicted child molester might have bigger problems with god than teh gays

    Pope Francis has warned “the powerful of the Earth” they will answer to God if they fail to protect the environment to ensure the world can feed its population.
    He’s not kidding, either:

    “We must do what we can so that everyone has something to eat. But we must also remind the powerful of the Earth that God will call them to judgment one day,” he said. “And there it will be revealed if they really tried to provide for him in every person, and if they did what they could to preserve the environment so that it could produce this food.”
    http://news.yahoo.com/pope-god-judge-whether-cared-earth-163818982.html

  13. DJ, I am not catholic (grandma was) and they always rubbed me the wrong way.

    I liked John Paul, but this Pope is a man I admire. He upsets those conservatives and hypocrites because he is righteous and most of the time dead right. Humble, smart, true to the values. And not as far right as the RWNJs.

  14. I am not catholic as a matter of fact I would consider myself atheist but I like this Pope and after this I like him even more
    BREAKING: Vatican Recognizing Palestinian State
    The Vatican said Wednesday that it had concluded a treaty to recognize Palestinian statehood, a symbolic but significant step welcomed by Palestinians but upsetting to the Israeli government.
    Formal recognition of a Palestinian state by the Vatican, which has deep religious interests in the Israeli-occupied Palestinian territories that include Christian holy sites, lends a powerful signal of legitimacy to the efforts by the Palestinian Authority’s president, Mahmoud Abbas, to achieve statehood despite the long paralyzed Israeli-Palestinian peace process.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/14/world/middleeast/vatican-to-recognize-palestinian-state-in-new-treaty.html?_r=0

  15. That happened to me once at the 4th of July celebration at our fairgrounds. I said Yes! I do know Jesus! and he said that you are an asshole and he’s really getting pissed at the way you use his name in vain and make up a load of crap that he supposedly said! AND he told me that even though you Joe are an atheist that your a better friend of mine than they will ever be!! Of course it was all in Aramaic but somehow it was translated into the heathen English tongue, we fist bumped and he floated away… The look on his face was…priceless as was all of the bible heads in the group…

  16. He is so impressive. That breaking news is astonishing. How many popes say they won’t weigh in on policital matters. About once a month he says something that when I read about it I nod my head vigorously.

    Raul Castro said the other day: this guy is so good I might go back to the church!

  17. Those heathen gays are doing one helluva job at destroying Xtianity. However, it seems that they must be destroying all other religions while they’re at it:

    “America is a less Christian nation than it was 20 years ago, and Christianity is not losing out to other religions, but primarily to a rejection of religion altogether, a survey published Monday found.” (emphasis added)

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/wayoflife/03/09/us.religion.less.christian/index.html?_s=PM:LIVING

    Poor, poor Rush. Reality is giving him a serious beating.

  18. Pope Francis does the impossible: Gets Republicans to want religion out of politics

    What does it take to make Republicans want to keep religious leaders out of politics? A pope who disagrees with them, apparently. Pope Francis’ recognition of a Palestinian state is just the latest of the pontiff’s positions that have Republican politicians trying to put him in his place.

    “It’s interesting how the Vatican has gotten so political when ultimately the Vatican ought to be working to lead people to Jesus Christ and salvation, and that’s what the Church is supposed to do,” said Rep. Jeff Duncan (R-S.C.), a hawkish defender of Israel.
    http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/israel-hawks-to-pop-francis-stay-out-of-politics-117929.html

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