Inaction In the Bundy Standoff Legitimizes Anti-Government Sedition In Montana


There is an aphorism, likely from an archaic proverb, that was first used in 1846 America by pacifist and abolitionist Adin Ballou that says “might makes right.” The entire quote is, “But now, instead of discussion and argument, brute force rises up to the rescue of discomfited error, and crushes truth and right into the dust. Might makes right.”

Throughout world history, civilized society’s remedy for a barbaric concept such as “might makes right” has been establishing laws and statutes to maintain a semblance of order without bullies using brute force to impose their will on a culture or to “crush truth and right into the dust.” Obviously, Republicans embrace the concept of ‘might makes right’ and it informs their bloodlust for war as well as their support for sedition against the United States.

In most Western Republicans states, on orders from the billionaire Koch brothers, governors and state legislatures have been on a crusade to seize federal land to sell to logging, mining, and fossil fuel industries. According to Republicans, the federal government has no right to own any land they say belongs to the states; it was the argument proffered by racist rancher Cliven Bundy a little over a year ago. Since Republican states have been unsuccessful, thus far, in forcing the federal government to cede its authority over, and ownership of, federal land including national parks, there have been two incidents where “might makes right” ruled the day.

As reported here yesterday, another group of armed militiamen have prohibited federal employees from doing their jobs by force of arms in Montana. The issue is centered around two miners thumbing their noses at federal laws, and the government, with armed resistance not unlike Cliven Bundy’s seditious actions in Nevada. Because armed Oath Keepers, 3% of Idaho, and Pacific Patriot Network answered a call to arms against the government, federal prosecutors were ‘forced’ to file suit to allow Forest Service employees to gain access to Forest Service land the armed militias have closed off and prohibited entrance to. The Oath Keepers said they were summoned to action by “the miners and called for reinforcements to protect the miners from ‘any illegal’ Forest Service activity.” Illegal Forest Service activity in Oath Keeper’s minds is federal employees doing their appointed duties on federal Forest Service land.

The federal prosecutors “had to ask” a court to “please tell” the two miners and their little army to “please stop” blocking access to public land and “kindly stop” using armed bullies to threaten federal government officials in the commission of their jobs. Since there is no law or statute that allows the miners to close access to public land, destroy public property, or illegally open a road, the miners summoned armed militias to prove that might make right and laws are irrelevant.

In Republican circles the miners and their small army are courageous patriots standing up to the nasty federal government, but according to the law established in the U.S. Code they are committing sedition; not that Republicans or their precious patriot militias acknowledge federal law any more than they do the legality of the federal government.

It is stunning that federal prosecutors had to beg a judge to make the armed bullies stop preventing federal officials from performing their jobs, or preventing citizens from accessing public land. The federal government has every right to arrest the miners and their armed militia, just like it did Bundy and his army, for seditious conspiracy; calling on a court for assistance was not only unnecessary, it sends the wrong message to the armed conspirators.

According to 18 U.S. Code § 2384, it is consideredseditious conspiracy if two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to oppose by force the federal government authority, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof. They shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.” Also in 18 U.S. Code § 2383, Rebellion or insurrection, “Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.”

It is beyond refute that when the two Montana miners, or Cliven Bundy for that matter, summoned armed militias to “oppose by force, or by force prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law, or seize, take, or possess any property of the United States” they were guilty of both seditious conspiracy and rebellion; according to the U.S. Code. However, might makes right in America and it is why neither Bundy, his armed conspirators, nor the Montana miners will suffer any consequences.

The federal government is setting – correction, has already set – a very dangerous precedent in allowing seditious conspirators free rein flout federal laws they disagree with. Republicans, for their part, are guilty of “inciting” insurrection against the authority of the United States by heralding the patriotism of armed militias and crowing that the federal government has no legal right to its own land. In fact, in every Republican-led Western state, and to a lesser degree in Congress, GOP representatives are actively promoting the idea that states are well within their purview to take over federal land.

By all accounts, the Montana miners have seized, taken, and possessed property of the United States and instead of arresting them and their army, federal prosecutors ‘asked a judge’ to make them stop it, pay for property they destroyed, and please allow Forest Service officials to do their jobs. It is sending a signal to the Koch brothers that instead of spending tens-of-millions of dollars to pass state or federal laws forcing the government to hand over its public land for logging, mining, and oil drilling, all they have to do is take over the land, start logging, mining, and drilling for oil and hire armed mercenaries to “oppose by force” federal authorities “enforcing the laws of the United States.”

It is true that no-one except anti-government militias want bloodshed to start their precious 2nd revolution, but at some juncture the federal government has to either make a stand and enforce the law like a civilized society, or cede all authority to armed militias and allow America to complete devolve and collapse into a land where might, and white, makes right. There would be a different outcome, and an instantaneous bloodbath, if African Americans dared oppose the government or seize federal land whether they had guns or not.

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  • If we shoot the all too deserving of such, then they'll be Martyrs. And like their spiritual cohorts in ISIS- they'll use such to gain more followers.

    The best thing we can do is keep it in perspective.

    It's a mine, that's being improperly utilized.
    Namely- toxic waste. Let the Oath Kreepers hang out amongst that crap all they want- I say.

    Eventually like Craven Bundy's antics, the wannabe Dirty Harry-ies will have to go home and tend to their own.

    All the Feds have to do- is out stubborn them.

    What we don't need is another Waco. Which inevitably led to the Murrah Building bombing in OKC.

    • Agree we cannot have another Waco. But we should sue them and take every dime they ever had or ever hope to have and leave them to rot.

    • I'm not saying we don't do anything. I'm saying that we don't dance to their tune.

      They want an armed confrontation. Don't give it to them.
      Like the other Oath Kreeper 'insurgencies' after they've been sitting on their overly wide butts they'll quietly go back to collecting their welfare checks at home, after nothing happens.

      Let me remind all of you Gung-Ho types- what is it that is going on here? A couple of nimrods too damned lazy to fill out paperwork.
      Not that may not be important to you and your pride- but I can guarantee you if blood is spilled over it, the Oaf Keepers will make it a banner cry.

      Do not confront these vidiots in their 'finest hour'. Wait until they've gone home with their tails tucked between their legs and they're sleeping off their consolation binge.

      • They're hillbillies, not too smart, and I agree cooler heads will prevail. WHEN they get their due, they should be made to wish they were never born. ?

    • Lets not forget, the Bundy "militia" brought their "women" to hide behind if fired upon. Some even brought their children to hide behind. They're nothing but crazies that congregated at this thieves' property.This group also produced 2 coward cop killers. This group of whackjobs oppose background checks cause none of em would pass and would lose their guns, hence "the govt coming to take our guns" propaganda.

    • But, and it is a big but, if this was a group of American Indians, especially from a tribe from the region (& who probably have more right/claim to Federal lands than these Yahoos) or God forbid people of color, you know those people (African Americans): The Yahoos would be demanding blood & the Government would send in troops with weapons to remove by force & if a few people die - well that's the price you pay. Icing on this cake, if a few of the Gov Forces are wounded & killed, the leaders of the group would be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and serve time not only for sedition, but for murder.

      However, these are a bunch of white males so they are handled differently. Patriots my eye, nothing more than homegrown terrorists.

  • The Republicans, the Kochs, the NRA-all are complicit in raising the presence of Right Wing militias and giving them legitimacy in the eyes of their base. Since Pres. Obama's election, the trio of hate has fed the innate "fear of the black man' in their rabid followers. This armed rabble has been raised to the level of a 'Last Defense' against the President and the policies they oppose, most of which are tin foil hat conspiracies. They're equated with the colonial patriots and Founders who had a worthy cause, not an ammosexual's wet dream. If federal workers or soldiers are injured by these halfwit heroes, the Republicans should be called out by the rest of America for their part in it.

  • In my opinion, before this starts to get out of control, the federal government should issue a warning and if not heeded, should issue arrest warrents for anyone still present. Once issued, the warrents should be carried out by force if necessary. This sedition must be nipped in the bud NOW. Too many of these groups parading around as militias intimidating government employees and the public have got to be made to realize they've got to stop or this BS will continue. You mentioned Republicans inciting this behavior. Let's not leave out the responsibility of Fox "News" and other right wing hate spewers.

      • No Moongrim, I don't want a confrontation. They think they do, but if the government keeps placating their antics as they did in the Bundy case, it will continue and grow until it becomes a huge issue. It needs to be stopped now before it snowballs out of control and many more, especially innocent people are injurred or killed.

        • We've gotten a lot more bloodshed dealing in the coin that these drama queens demand.

          How many have died as a result of Craven Bundy's escapade?

      • As an example; France placated Germany until Germany eventually knew France would not resist and invaded. At some point you have to stand up for the rule of law and take action. If not you will be bullied into submission.

        • This is actually a reply to Moongrim above. If the Bundy situation had been stopped with arrests of the seditioners, we wouldn't be having this issue now.

        • The problem Rick, is just like the Bundy situation we've got a whole bunch of armed to the teeth with an itchy trigger finger Dirty Harry wannabes, right now.

          Attempting to arrest now, like then, would've escalated very rapidly.
          We would've had another Waco/Ruby Ridge. And look how well that worked out.

          No. Violence is NOT the answer. Not For Iran. Not for these Oath Kreepers.

      • We need a f**king confrontation. These bast**ds only understand one thing. If we don't do something now, they will be much worse later. I'm a peace-loving liberal, but there are times when you just gotta' do what ya' gotta' do. Screw those America-hating dirtbags. Send in our armed soldiers and see how long these militia b**ches last. I personally have had it with these a**holes.

        • You cant send in the Armed forces. Its against the law
          18 U.S. Code § 1385 - Use of Army and Air Force as posse comitatus
          Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.

        • From your words- You are NOT a Peace Loving Liberal.

          You're just like the Bu$h crowd: Eager to salvage your pride through other people's blood.

      • Moongrim, I'm going to have to go with Rick on this one. He is correct in his analogy of France and Germany and the willingness of the British to knuckle under to the Germans. As far as the Maginot line, it was a static defense emplacement that was obsolete during it's very construction and was useless because the Belgians never finished the barrier. We DO have to stop these militias before they ignite a race war which is EXACTLY what they are thirsty for. We must take them down before they grow in strength OR this entire nation will be on big WACO...

        • We DO have to stop these militias before they ignite a race war which is EXACTLY what they are thirsty for.

          I agree- but not by playing into their hands. If we go into that mine in Lincoln Montana with guns a blazing- and you know it'll happen- our cops are no better than Ferguson Cops, we'll create an incentive for a War.

          And how exactly is a mine supposed to incite a race war?

      • Had the Bundy Taliban been Black ppl or anything black,they would have used their military weapons but, they have been intimidate and there is no limit to what the Bundy Taliban does. Gov't acting like creme puffs and they do not stand for anything and that's why we,the American People have to fall for this b.s.

  • Their strategy, being run through the brainless by a certain central brain, is to incite insurrection until martial law must be imposed *before the election*, which they will use to either sway or invalidate the election. If the federal government doesn't bite, they'll use their goondahs to prevent the "wrong" people from voting and/or seize the "wrong" ballots, and then have the Justitutes ratify the results.

    • It's good to see SOMEONE understands the situation.

      What with the Testosterone fog we've got going on in the commentary section.

      • And understands history...

        The best way to make "them" stop and go away "permanently" could easily be done by a crack team of psy-ops professionals. It would be easy, very, very easy to "play with their heads".

        Play with their heads until they pee in their pants any time the words "Oath Keeper" and "Bundy" is used in the same sentence.

        "Play with their heads" until they are left in a state of mind where all they can do is stare at a wall all day, won't go near a cell phone, computer, vehicle (computer) or anyone associated with a gun or communication device...all they'd have left in their mind is a way to plan a way to "escape" from American or else the military-grade flying green monkeys will find them...

        All it takes is a simple mind control "recipe" based on their own particular brand of paranoia and fear; let's see how they like being infected with a "crazy" virus that they have no mental immunity to fight off...

  • The photo shows an alleged MAN with the words US Patriot..he is anything but a "patriot" He knows NOTHING about being Patriotic he knows only his own bloodthirsty need to kill anyone who does not look like him, think like him or who does not bend to his sick arrogant ignorant demands. If these "patriots" were Native American, Black or Hispanic then they would have already been Demonized and then neutralized by the Conservative Christian Reich Wing! These militant traitors MUST be eliminated at all cost! Their semi automatic penises should be confiscated for our safety and security.

      • What do you think we will accomplish by kissing these people's a**es? That is why they think a liberal won't stand up for anything. Screw those jerks, come down on them, and come down hard, that is all they know. there is a time to pacify, and there is a time to fight. We are looking at what is trying to take over our country, they have to be stopped, not matter what it takes.

        • So your answer is to take a page from the Republicans' book of War Mongering?

          Yeah they're trying to take the country, but meeting them on their terms will just make it easier for them to do so.

          Why can't you get the concept through your skull? Don't play by their rules!

          Go against their weakness. Not their strength.

        • It's not warmongering Moon, it is standing up for our rights not to have people stealing our public land and thumbing their noses at us. You sometimes just have to take the bull by the horns. I'm a very peaceful person, but enough is enough.

        • Yes it is warmongering.

          Like Bundy, like the sugar mine in Oregon, they're not gonna stick around forever.

          All we gotta do is wait their whiny asses out.
          If they escalate shit- we escalate back.

          The Greatest Test of Power- is the ability to not use it.

  • The Weather Forecast for Lincoln Montana:
    http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=Lincoln+Montana

    Where the White Hope mine is near. Forecasting High Wind Watch, Fire Warning, and a possibility of a Thunderstorm.
    Fun Times. A bunch of overstewed Boy Scouts hanging around in a dry forest during a Thunderstorm- carrying metal and explosives.

    The Government does not need to act like the Republicans with the Iran Act.

    What the hell happened to the notion of non-military diplomacy?

    Does anyone remember the result of Craven Bundy's SNAFU? Oh yeah- he's faded away from the limelight. No rallying cries about him and his beef.

    His Attention-Whoring Defenders got damned tired of hanging out for so long in the 100+ degree heat without getting that military confrontation they were lusting after.

    • What are you talking about? I don't believe you today. I usually like to read your comments, but there is not diplomacy with these dimwits, what part of that don't you understand?

      • I am talking about not giving these morons what they want.

        They WANT an armed conflict. They WANT to be Martyrs for the Cause against the Big Bad Government. This mine is just an excuse for them.
        Where the FARK did you get the notion I'm talking about diplomacy?
        I'm talking about not dancing to the tune they're playing.

        There is a difference. Pull your head out.

        • Moongrim, I understand where you are coming from. The problem is the follow through. These Yahoos get away with doing whatever they want without consequence. Not that the Government should go in with guns blazing, but the Gov. needs to ID these "patriots" & after they think they have gotten their way & put away their weapons, arrest their butts and charge them with sedition. ID the leaders and make sure they pay a bigger penalty for inciting sedition & block free & easy access to public lands. That these lands belong to all the people of the US not just people who want to use the land as a money making venture.

    • I live in Oregon. Near those where those retards 'demonstrated'.

      Like the WBC- if they don't get any attention they go away.

  • These "Oath Keepers" show their true belief system repeatedly. Instead of supporting the constitutional right for protestors to peacefully assemble and resisting the illegal police action of denying this right to the primarily African American protestors, they show their racist mindset by making aggressive moves towards the protestors and supporting the police state.

    By supporting seditious persons instead of making citizens arrests and turning the traitors over for prosecution, they prove that they care nothing for defending the constitution from all enemies foreign and DOMESTIC and believe that they have the right to break the law without punishment.

    Arresting traitors for sedition is no more antagonistic than arresting violent drug dealers. If these traitors fail to disarm and a violent confrontation does take place it would be their own fault for committing acts of sedition, resisting arrest, and even domestic terrorism. Traitors make poor martyrs.

    • I see the republican mind(?)set is strong in you.

      "a violent confrontation does take place it would be their own fault"

      No, it wouldn't be theirs alone. You don't fight idiots by fighting them on their terms.

  • Take 'em down. The whole idea of armed insurrection is bullshit. AR15s against Apache gunships? Give me a break.

    If might makes right, then like all bullies, they only get to bully others until someone kicks their ass. THEN they understand "might makes right".

    Armed confrontation means blood spilled - anywhere. It isn't wanted by any law abiding citizen... BUT... Why should we worry about the message being sent to scofflaws? What is the message being sent to those of us who choose to live and support the rule of law? What are we supposed to think when we let this continue?

    Gee, they might become martyrs? They already are. Finish the job. Scofflaws need no justification to flout the laws of the land. They cannot be dissuaded from their twisted reality. It may be a sad state of affairs, but might still makes right.

      • Moongrim,

        Blood thirst? Not even close. BUT... Vacillation doesn't get it either. The idiots are defining the rules, not us. We already HAVE rules. We just have to have the courage to uphold them. Perhaps negotiated settlement would be possible if both sides wished to negotiate. But that isn't the case here.

        THEY are betting might makes right. Either we call the bet or fold. Yammering on and on sounds good, almost righteous, but belies a solution that upholds law. Either we support the law or we don't. It's really just that simple.

        BTW, if I could rid this country of guns, I would. But with these idiots? They would be brandishing swords and machetes

        • It is NOT just that simple. Nothing ever is.

          And yes this IS bloodthirst. Put that gun down and THINK!

          We confront them now- and every one of them now with their camera video phones will be recording it. and subsequently twisting it into another PP video.

          Like Craven Bundy- all we gotta do is wait for them to either A) get tired of being in the woods, or B) let them pull the first boner.

          They shoot first- then all bets are off.

          But if we shoot first- you can bet your retirement pension that the Republicans WILL NEVER let go of it.

      • Moongrim,

        Here are the options as presented to us by this group of so-called "peacekeepers".

        We either support and enforce rule of law in this country or we accept armed militias dictators under threat of armed violence.

        No one here WANTS violence, but some of us accept the terms of the "peacekeepers". If violence is the solution, then no matter how distasteful, get on with it. I realize it is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, but there isn't any way to nuance a gun barrel pointed at your head.

        • Bullshit!

          Whose head is the 'guns' being pointed at? All you're doing is attempting to escalate before anything has happened.

          They WANT us to escalate. Stare their asses down. There is no need for us start shooting before they have.

          We all know they're trigger happy. Don't give them the excuse they're looking for.

          Like the Craven Bundy flub up. We didn't escalate. We let them stew. And the only thing that got hurt was some pride.

          So which is more important? Lives? Or Pride?

        • It most certainly NOT an either or situation! We have non-lethal options open to us. We are smarter than they are. We ARE better than they are.

          Let us act like we're more civilized than they are.

          So- they have an armed militia dictatorship around what? A mine? How in the Hades does that threaten the United States?

    • Congress has destroyed the notion of the Rule of Law by clogging courts with obviously unconstitutional rules passed in the name of religion.

      This is why elections matter. The small elections - judges, DAs and Governors. Legislators are property managers. They think themselves kings and princes. We allow it.

      We refuse to educate our children. We allow fer to rule our lives - fear of the government we pay for. We get the government we demand.

  • arresting them and convicting them of felonies strips them of their gun rights...

    sometimes even the NRA is right... if we enforce the laws already on the books dumbasses wouldn't have guns...

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