World Net Daily Scandalized! Moses Led Muslims Out of Egypt?

Oh the humanity. This was World Net Daily’s headline last evening:

FROM WND’S JERUSALEM BUREAU

PALESTINIAN TV: MOSES LED THE MUSLIMS OUT OF EGYPT

Official network re-writes Passover story

Spank me and call me Sally! They said what?

Moses was a Muslim who brought “the Muslims of the Children of Israel out of Egypt,” according to a lecture on official Palestinian Authority television.

WND’s Aaron Klein is scandalized. Everybody knows Moses led the Jews out of Egypt! You’d think somebody had suggested Christmas was a Pagan holiday! Or that Easter was named for Eostre (Ostara), a Germanic Pagan goddess! Or that the Jesus fish was a Pagan fertility symbol representing the vagina and that the bishop’s hat (miter) worn by the Pope was in the shape of this fish symbol and that therefore the Pope wears a giant vagina on his head! Next thing you know they’ll be telling us that Wednesday is named for Odin (Woden) and Thursday for Thor!

The report of such propaganda comes four days before the start of the Jewish festival of Passover, which commemorates the story of the Exodus in which the Israelites were freed from slavery in Egypt.

The trouble for Klein’s position is that it is not propaganda – not at its heart even if the message has been politicized – and in this a Jew or a Christian hardly has cause for complaint. It isn’t even a new claim, something Muslims just came up with on the spur of the moment to torment Jews heading into Passover. It says so in the Qur’an. It has always said so in the Qur’an, if only conservatives would bother to read it: Moses (Musa) led the Muslims out of Egypt and Moses was a Muslim and even Pharaoh, before he drowned, repented and became, like the Children of Israel, a Muslim:

And We took the Children of Israel across the sea, and Pharaoh and his soldiers pursued them in tyranny and enmity until, when drowning overtook him, he said, “I believe that there is no deity except that in whom the Children of Israel believe, and I am of those who submit [the Muslims]” Chapter (10) sūrat yūnus (Jonah) verse 10:90.

If the Qur’an says so, how is this claim by Palestinian TV a re-writing of anything?

Klein won’t admit to this and he is unhappy that Omar Ja’ara, lecturer at Al-Najah University in Nablus said on TV that Saul’s conquest of Palestine was a Muslim liberation of Palestine: “While the Quran itself refers to Moses as an early Islamic prophet, the ‘Children of Israel’ are not called ‘Palestinians,’” he complains. So Ja’ara politicized events? It’s not as if Jews and Christians have not done the same thing with Scripture as regards the so-called Holy Land. The whole claim that the land is theirs on account of this mythical conquest is a politicization of history, no matter who is making the claim.

Islam is the act or state of submission. A Muslim is one who surrenders to the will of God and in that context, because leaving Egypt as the people of God, they were Muslim. It says so in the Qur’an, just as it says Jesus is a Muslim.

It’s your actions, not your ethnicity, that make you a Muslim. Just as an American of whatever descent doesn’t have to be Arabic to be Muslim – as with many African-Americans – so neither did Moses and his fellow Israelites-to-be. We might insist there were no Muslims until the 7th century and Mohammed’s victory of Arabia’s Pagan oligarchs, but that is not what the Qur’an says, and here again we see the conflict between belief and historical fact.

The problem is looking at the past with today’s prejudices. And when I speak of conservatives, I DO mean prejudices. And look, it is no secret that the Qur’an and the Bible differ in particulars and it is a moment’s work to find a plethora of competing sites each denouncing the other. Both sides will say God cannot be wrong, the Scriptures are the inerrant word of God, etc. There will be no agreement on this score. So the Bible will say one thing of Moses; the Qur’an another.

History says something else again entirely, that the Exodus did not happen, that Moses, though possibly a figure of history, was likely an Egyptian, and that the Jews themselves are nothing other than Canaanites, indigenous to the hill country of Palestine and as polytheistic as any other inhabitant of what came to be called Palestine until the introduction of the cult of YHWH sometime early in the Iron Age by Midianite merchants. From the perspective of history they are both mistaken on a great many points.

For Klein to complain, as he does, “The re-writing of history and biblical text is routine in Palestinian society” is sheerest hypocrisy. Christians and Jews are in no position to accuse Muslims of revisionist history; the Old Testament itself in the words of two Jewish archaeologists is “history as it should have been” and the New Testament turns Jesus the Jew into a Gentile and is anti-Semitic to boot. Historical revisionism runs rampant in Christian fundamentalism, where Deist Founding Fathers are turned into modern Evangelical Christians and the American Revolution becomes, paradoxically, a revolution of conservative heroes fighting for the status quo against the evils of progressivism!

World Net Daily specializes in “exclusive” and “explosive” news that is generally not news at all, but tabloid sensationalism designed to stoke the fires of outrage among the faithful. A three-headed alien Obama would not be out of place in its places, right alongside gay Nazis. In the end, Moses leading Muslims out of Egypt is much ado about nothing. Muslims in Palestine have not  re-written anything: their only crime was the audacity to quote from their Qur’an rather than the Bible. And we know how unforgiving conservatives can be about that.

29 Replies to “World Net Daily Scandalized! Moses Led Muslims Out of Egypt?”

  1. Islam: I enter into peace with God and with Man through surrendering to my dependence on God.

    Is it wise to take issue with that formula, I ask?

  2. In fact, as I was told by a practitioner of that faith, “islam” is related to “salaam”- peace- and means basicly to be at peace with the will of God, to “go with the flow”. That is how Musa and his followers could be described as practitioners of “islam”, even though the religion of Islam was to be founded by Mohammed, many centuries later. It is a state that could be compared to putting your boat into a river and letting the current carry you, or into the harbor waters at the flood of the tide and allowing the ebb to carry you to sea. Of course, that assumes a current or a tide that is always benevolent and wise- a large leap of faith to make, and, as history tells us, not always a prudent one.

  3. Of course, WND is not news; it is endless conspiracy theories in a tabloid form that passes as red meat politics for ignorant white people in need of a fix from addictive, neo-con “crack” on a daily bases…the fix is always in at WND; it’s just a part of their readers addicts “ritual”.

    And who or what is a “Klein” anyway??

  4. For my part, it’s more a matter of studying the World and its needs… while telling people with their machinations to go piss up a rope (“fear” Him who can destroy the soul, not those who can destroy the body, to paraphrase the Judeo-Christian texts).

  5. you know how it is, if you believe in one God you have got the believe in all of them. If Christians and Muslims knew the truth about the basis of their religions they would all become Buddhists which at least has some honesty to it.

  6. I think I want to leave this planet and find someplace peaceful in the heavens where God or Gods are God or Gods, and men and women actually understand each other.
    Hay God, or Gods (in deference Hrafnkell) to can we start over?!?

  7. Jefferson Starship, one of my favorite songs

    Black wants out of the street
    Yellow wants the country
    Red wants the country back
    White wants out of this world.

    A bit dated, but still partially right today

  8. We are but a speck in this Universe, and our lives, measured in Universe Time, is not even the beginning of a blink of an eye. (The Universe is estimated to be 13.6 BILLION years old…our life span is…what?…75 years?…maybe?…what’s that, a nano of a nano second in “Universal Time”??)

    I really do believe in God, but I’m always curious as to why God would pay attention to us?? I know the answer is…”He’s God, He can do whatever He wants.” but…we’re still just a small dust speck in the Universe.
    I get the idea that God gave us, both of us, men AND women, free will. To put it very simply, we can make up our own minds about what we, as a spiritual being, want to believe in.

    I’m Jewish, and according to all sorts of Biblical information, we are the “Chosen” people. I get that…but…Moses goes off for a couple of weeks to have a pow wow with God and the rest of us decide on worshiping a Golden Calf?

    We’ve been wondering around the desert like a fart in a windstorm, with the Covenant!! This is basically a box with a big dark swirling cloud over it with thunder and lightening! I’m mean it’s God Almighty hangin with the Jews… yet leave us alone for a few weeks and we go back to worshiping calves?? And we’re the Chosen? Makes ya kind of wonder what kind of sense of humor God has?

    The more I read about Pagan and Heathen Rituals,the more I get the idea that Judaism and Christianity are an amalgamation of early religions, Gods and beliefs. Makes me kind of wonder what the God/Gods were really up too, and where we, as a spiritual living being, belong in that equation??

    Kind of makes what WordNetDaily writes about less then a speck in the whole scheme of things, don’t cha think??

    I don’t care if Moses was a Muslim, I think Moses was a man who was a Jew who led His people out of bondage, and if Moses is a prophet in the Muslim Religion, that’s okay too. If that makes Moses a Muslim as well as a Jew, that’s cool also. What’s true is that Moses led His people out of bondage with the Egyptians. His people were a bunch of Jews, Pagans and other “riff raff”. Call Moses a Jew, or a Muslim, or playing second base for the NY Mets, the fact is, Moses did what he did, and we, as a people, Jew, Christen, Muslim, whatever, should rejoice at the fact he FREED HIS PEOPLE!!

    I’ll close with this, I think God, in all His or Her or Their wisdom, knew we were an inquisitive being, so They decided to let us “choose” which path to find God/Gods. We could go the Pagan Way, and worship many, we could go the monotheistic way and choose one God, but it was up to us to choose our path. The rest of it is our “stuff” of injecting what we “think” God/Gods are. God’s got to be laughing over the mess we have made.

  9. you have competition.The Dominionists are trying to reform this country into the only one that Jesus will come back to

    But I would like to say that if you do some research for real you will find that the Jews were not slaves in Egypt. They were paid for every bit of labor they did in the reason that they left was because there was no more work, not enough for all of them.

  10. Yes Shiva, Buddhism is all honesty if one follows it correctly. The best feature is there is no reliance on a supreme being for anything. Some people misunderstand the meaning of Buddha and Karma, but as my Master used to tell me, that is their own Karmic dilemma and they suffer for it.

  11. I’m well aware of the paid Jews, and thanks for the fact. I say that with respect.
    But legend celebrated as the Passover is a wonderful time of spiritual enrichment. Nothing can take the place of all sitting around the table reading the story of Passover and the Gift of God look in the small children’s faces as the story is told.
    History is always stranger than legend, but I like the legend, it has a spiritual soul to it that can’t be measured by “historical facts”. Thanks for Historical facts, but I’ll stick to the “slave” story, makes for real good family gatherings.

  12. I don’t have a problem with people having their religions and their special days etc. If not just for the reason you say, it makes for good family gatherings. I really don’t have a problem with it. The only problem I have with it is that people have no idea of the real history of their religion.

    Just like the Passover, it never happened. But there’s nothing wrong with people celebrating it

    I would be carious so being is how you are Jewish, could you tell me( and I am not trying to be silly) if your religion teaches you that at once upon a time there were seven or more gods being worshiped in that religion?

  13. …”.The Dominionists are trying to reform this country into the only one that Jesus will come back to…”

    Would that be the cute little babe Jesus in the crib at Christmas time or the big one with the long straggly hair and beard? Ya’ know, they never seem to tell ya’ which one will appear behind door #…3! No, make it door #2! Ohhh, noooo, I’m sorry, times up! It was door #1, the dead Jesus…the one who’s not coming back.

    Dominisism is a disease of hate to which there has to be a cure…somewhere in the universe.

  14. Personally, I have a problem with “special days” for religious reasons; we don’t need them. They are a throw back to times when people actually got died hunting their food, had little in the way of actual shelter from the elements, or, starved when crops were eaten by little bugs…those people had a reason to actually believe they were “special” if they survived a harsh season. And then, only thing they could come up with is, hey, we made it another season! Let’s get drunk or stoned or have an orgy! After the party was over, they started having hang-overs, hallucinating, conjuring up these “sky-gods” who were supposed to be “watching them” do all this stuff…please.
    Why do we need to elevated a bunch of people to special status just for the sake of belief; that is not what “mythos” was meant to do, or fulfill in human life.

    Today we fill stadiums full with events ranging from music to sports to charity events to NASCAR.
    Why pretend to give thanks to some sky-god for something man has done collectively for centuries
    to make life, liveable and easier? Mehhh…

  15. As someone whon isnt christian, I don’t care if they have them. So few christians know what their religion really is its just funny to me to watch them celebrate

  16. There were actually 7 tribes, if I am not correct. Jesus was from the tribe of David, which is the tribe of Kings. Jesus ran into some difficulty because he said he was a Prophet, but according to the Jewish Hierarchy at the time, Prophets came from the tribe of Jacob, not David. Caused him some pain, if I’m not incorrect.
    By the way, you seem to have a wealth of historical information, can you supple me with some web site address so I can further explore what you commented on in the way of the “7 gods”. That caught my attention.
    Hrafnkell has shown, over and over again, that the organized and, at times, bigoted religions of today are really an amalgamation of all sorts of ancient beliefs, costumes and gods. Fascinating, as Spock would say.

  17. I thought there were 10-12 tribes, but I could be wrong.

    I read in Biblical Archeology Review(A Jewish publication magazine) many years ago about the 7 gods. It seem there are statues, pottery and many other items depicting 7 gods of worship. This would have been very early old testament times. At some point Jehovah becomes the only god noted. Some thing that occurred when contact with Egyptions was made, I think it was much earlier. If I get achance tomorrow I will look this up. I have never taken it further than reading the magazine

    Biblical Archeology Review – http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org

    BTW, this is an extremely interesting magazine

    Here is a link to a book that I found, slightly off subject but most interesting. Hraf my find it interesting too

    http://emptytombbooks.com/products/Judaism%27s-Strange-Gods%3A-Revised-and-Expanded.html

  18. Shiva, after doing some extensive research on Michael Hoffman, seems as though this guy has a bullet up his anus over Israel. He is not listed anywhere on the Southern Poverty Law Center as a hate monger, but his writings, as far as I am concerned, are very suspect…but, the other site, the Biblical Archeology Review seems legit. I have just started to poke around some of it’s articles, but they seem to be written by individuals without a hidden agenda. Hoffman, on the other hand, seems to have a very specific agenda, and it’s not in support of my Religion or Israel, so this “7 Gods” information is very suspect in my opinion.
    I also differ strongly with your characterization that Moses did not lead his people out of Egypt. Although there is only one or two references to it in the Egyptian Hieroglyphs, there is extensive written documentation in our religion, and the research continues on Moses.
    The wonder of this forum is we can present our ideas, and differ in them without rancor. You, me and SinghX follow Hraf’s articles with a great deal of interest. Thanks for the leads on the Bible Review, but I’ll respectfully pass on Hoffman’s writings.

  19. People with agendas are a major pain in the ass to real archaeologists and researchers/scholars. In fact, as an undergraduate I did research and in lieu of writing a paper, created a website (now gone) on Biblical Archaeology which I titled “Biblical Archaeology, the Good, the Bad, and the Bad Science”.

    The upshot is that there are people who seek to “prove” the Bible (bad science but because of their actions, considered just plain bad), people who try to “disprove” the Bible (also always tending to bad science), and then the REAL archaeologists who seek out the evidence and examine it (the “Good”). BTW… most people don’t know that the “Prove the Bible” archaeologists are not welcome and do not get permits to dig in the Levant… because they are so known for destroying evidence that goes against their beliefs and trying to forge evidence that “Proves deh Bible!”.

    There are a great many good sources of historical and archaeological information “out there”, but people need to be careful and weigh the evidence (and as you’ve noted, be aware when people have obvious agendas). There is ONE reference in Egyptian records that could be tied to some form of exodus… Ramses the Great expelled a group of Samaritans from Egypt for fomenting rebellion (Ramses the great is the pharaoh most likely to be “Pharaoh” of the Bible). The term translated Samaritan was their word for anyone from the Levant… not specific to any group. Other evidence for Moses outside of Jewish sources… as of the last few years, non-existent. If it were found, it would be big news in archaeological circles and I think I would have heard of it (and maybe even read the report/journal article).

    I keep telling people that science does disprove some parts of the Bible while strongly supporting others. Did things happen just like in the OT and NT? NO. That can be established. However, that doesn’t mean that an exodus of sorts took place… or that the plagues weren’t some sort of real occurrence. THAT ALSO DOESN’T PROVE THAT MOSES DIDN’T EXIST.

    Even the story of Noah may have SOME basis in reality, just that there was no world-wide flood. In the proper time frame, there were several massive floods in the region, including the formation of the Black Sea (see Bob Ballard’s findings and the subsequent video by National Geographic, for instance). In fact, there were several regional floods – it happened. Plus there are multiple flood stories in the region… some recording that the flood was more of a local event and that indeed, only local people and animals (with the exception of Noah and his group) perished.

    My colleagues involved in “Biblical Archaeology” get quite tired of the “Prove the Bible/Disprove the Bible” bs that keeps coming out. BTW, there is adequate evidence of the Israelites worshiping multiple gods, but over time monotheism became the norm and then de jure.

    I recently lucked out and picked up a book on ancient Biblical archaeology which is a valid and good reference – but it’s at my desk in the lab. My mentor and friend knows the author and more important – knows the author’s credentials and reputation. When I’m there I’ll try to post the title and author – it’s a heavy book (like 3 or more inches thick) but excellent. There are also a number of good peer-reviewed journals available… since my areas of specialty don’t include the Levant, I don’t remember the names of the journals but can look them up if needed.

    I find it amazing that people have no question regarding the existence of other historic figures, even with less evidence for their being real… but Jesus and Moses are constantly being “doubted”. I think it’s because of some of the history of Christianity and Judaism… both religions do have much to answer for (and I’m speaking as a Christian, although one who follows an almost unknown path).

  20. Very interesting. I just finished going through some of Hoffman’s comments on the Talmud (he thinks it’s an evil document…go figure)! Just basically been poking around Bible sites, some interesting, some “off the wall”.
    After going to Hraknkell’s blog (http://aheathensday.com/ ) and reading some of his very interesting articles, I have begun to solidify what I have always suspected; religion started basically here and there, a Sun God here, a Tree God there, a burial ritual, and from an oral tradition to a written tradition religion has evolved. In other words, religion, any religion is an amalgamation of past rituals and thoughts, both oral and written. Hraknkell’s articles on Easter and Christmas, for example, and their Pagan origins make for some good reading, and further research makes it even more interesting. The more I poke around, the more I take different roads. Some lead to some very interesting historical facts, some to some off the wall characters with fancy credentials (Hoffman).
    The most important lesson I have learned in all this exploring is to go with an open mind. The rule of thumb is, if it sticks like s**t, then it is s**t! Problem is, sometimes you have to step in it knee deep before you realize there is really a stink there.

    What is so very bothersome in the current political climate is that the fringe element, the far right Fundamentalist Christens have taken over the political conversation. They are well organized and are in full attack mode, without hiding behind anything anymore. They are a minority, but because of their organizational skills and their extensive national network, they are winning the arguments about how our government should be run. They are fundamentally trying to over run the First Amendment of our Constitution. What is so frightening about all this is that they are SUCCEEDING in their very disgusting and restrictive policies being not only injected into our government, but getting laws passed that adhere to their very restrictive agenda. Think of the laws passed in the last several years against abortion, or restricting abortion, or gay marriage and the lies connected with how that type of marriage is an attack on the very foundations of this country.
    (WTF???). And how in the world is the Affordable Healthcare Act an attack on religious freedom?
    They are winning by being very insidious about their goals, but are well organized. The Tea Party (what a joke) is the tip of the ice burg for these fringe elements, and when they are able to get “their” members elected to office, then the agenda is instituted. The disgusting thing is, it is a very successful strategy that is continuing to this day.

    I am not some off the wall fanatic, but I have come to the conclusion that this “Dominoist” theory about attempting to turn this country into a Christen Theocracy is not that far fetched an idea after all.
    I just hope it’s not too late to stop it and wake people up to the very insidious agenda we face as a nation.

  21. (Laugh) Off the wall fanatic… nowhere close.

    As my pseudonym suggests, I am a walkaway – survived and escaped the dominionist churches (and thus know how they think and are – and that none of what is said about them is “conspiracy theory” stuff and very little exaggerated – in fact just the opposite is usually true). People are often flabbergasted to learn that the things they consider really far-out or crazy and unbelievable about the dominionists are documented (or recorded on video and/or audio).

    Americans are blind to the threat they’re facing… the usual reason is “But it’s a CHURCH, it can’t be THAT BAD!”

  22. Unfortunately, I think the answer to your last statement is…YES THEY CAN! And they will hide behind a “church” to make it look legit. Be afraid, be very afraid, and that’s not said with a grin, but with real fear.

  23. I don’t think I said that Moses did not lead his people out of Egypt, without looking back I think I would’ve said that he did not lead them out of slavery.

    As far as Michael Hoffman, I know nothing about him I just found the link to that book as I was searching around for something on the seven gods. I just thought it was an interesting concept. And I did little more than read the one-page that was there.

    When I went to get the link for the Biblical archaeology review, I signed up for another one-year subscription. I used to get the magazine and read it, if I may, religiously. It is a highly thought of magazine and I wish I had The copies I had so that I would know which month in which year the article I was reading about the gods was in.

    I have read several archaeologists versions of Moses leaving Egypt. Including the fact that the reason they were being chased by the Pharaoh Was that they had raided a city and took all of its food and weaponry as they were leaving Egypt. Given the stories of war and Israel after they tromped through the desert that wouldn’t surprise me a bit.

  24. That wasn’t just any damned Golden Calf, by the way. That was Hathor, the Great Cow of Egypt, herself. She may have been abolished as an object of worship, but she remains enshrined in Jewish dietary law to this day.

    Leviticus does not forbid the combination of just any meat with just any milk. What is forbidden is to cook a calf in its mother’s milk. A creamed meat dish allowed to stand without refrigeration is deadly, of course; among the ancestral Arabs and other Semitic tribes, as among Muslims today, the usual method is either to eat the dish straight from the fire or to add yogurt at the table. The Sabaeans, Midianites, Amalakites, and the others, however, had not lived in Egypt, and had not developed a healthy respect for Hathor. The Hebrews had. Because of that, they reasonably believed ptomaine was the wrath of Hathor for committing such a heartless act, and as they became urbanized and could no longer be sure which calf or what milk came from which cow, it became simpler just to separate meat and dairy entirely. I’d even say that very dietary law did indicate they spent time in Egypt

  25. Wow, is that where we get the saying; “Holy Cow!!” I’m saying this with a wry smile on my face, but the more we talk about Passover, Moses and other stuff, the more interesting the conversation becomes. Lots of different input on legend and history combined. I am enjoying the give and take.
    Shiva, no offense taken about Hoffman. Like you, I am poking around the Biblical review site to see if there are any articles on the “7 Gods” information.
    If everyone who is reading these responses takes a good look at what has been discussed so far, it is really interesting.
    In this mix is Moses, Jews, 7 Gods, Holy Cows (with a wink to Reynardine) Egypt, Archaeology digs, both “good” and “bad” and a rather interesting discussion on how religion and history mix, or kind of mix. All of this is done to give different ideas about how things happened or didn’t happen, but done in a way to open the door for MORE discussion.
    My only problem, my wife had to come downstairs last night and kick me off the computer…at 2 AM because I have been poking around all these interesting sites and facts about the Passover, Moses etc. Lots of fun guys/girls, lots of fun, and I say this with a great deal of respect for all who have responded all the comments and questions. Thanks to all.

  26. I doubt you will find anything, the article is from the mid 80’s at best. I also doubt the they index articles in a searchable manner.

    I am not sure how long you ha ve been here, but if you look up the discography of Hraf’s writing you will find a tremendous resource of information. Including the fact that there are verses of Baal’s scriptures in the Bible. I am frequently astounded at the amount of knowledge he has

    My belief is simply this: The Jewish religion at best is a pick up religion, as in a compilation of several religions.(as are other religions). We know the flood story is over 1000 years older than when the Israelis started writing about it, we know the story of not getting to heavan without believing in a “father god” originates in Eqypt. There are so many other clues about the religion that it is hard to buy into. I will admit to you that I was brought up christian but have been atheist for over 40 years now. Nor do I care who has religion of any type, they are welcome to it with no ill feelings from me to them. This does not apply to the Dominionsts who have stepped onto the crazy train.

    I should add I think the catholic religion is part of the crazy train :)

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published.